Saw the Russian team play the LA Selects '95 team. It was sobering, because I then walked over and watched another '95 game, and it looked like it was being played in mud.
Was shocked by the unbelievable quality of hockey from a group of 13 year olds. #98 on the La Selects team has to be the best 13 yr old I have ever seen, anywhere.
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Poster about # 88 is not an idiot. Have seen the LA player numerous times and there is no other 95 playing at his level. Just a fact, sorry if you are jealous or whatever but that player could play anywhere on any 94 team.
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I didn't discover anybody, nor did I annoint him as a sure NHLer...don't even know if he will play hockey through high school or college....was just amazed that this one 13 year old kid seemed to be skating at a speed and level beyond even the best Russian kids...He just played at a completely different speed...That's all I was saying.
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Any kid like one on LA that is that dominating is for sure soft if he aint playing 94. I say he is talented and affraid, period!!! Either that or his parents sit on the couch and get off watchin game films.
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Scout did u even see the kid play? If not what's your point?
Maybe the kid wants to play on what most people say is the best team in the country or perhaps they really like the coach or the other kids on the team.Are u such an ass that u have to start blasting a kid and his parents about something you know nothing about?Just another great story blown by an eyewitness.
Oh by the way there were 2 guys who saw him play over the weekend who thought he was lights out.Between them they have 24 years of NHL experience.Would I value their opinoin over yours...Yes.....PERIOD.
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I know it isn't right to put a players name on here...his initials are B.W...and shares a name with a NBC anchorman...Best Bantam Minor I have seen in awhile.....If he does not get hurt, he is the Real Deal....he will get drafted in the 1st round...He is better than Austin Watson and Jared Knight in their Bantam Minor year for Compuware three years ago...and they are currently tearing up the O
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It was reported that the Management of The Double Tree Hotel in Oak Brook had a major control problem with the seven Canadian house teams over the weekend, that they needed to call the Oak Brook Police to get control over the kids staying at the hotel.
Seems the Parents left the kids to run amuck!
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Banker, I think BW is a great player but I think getting 5-6 points a game means it is time to dominate the next level. The only thing left to prove are the things hanging between his legs. If he does I agree NHL. If you dont like it you are a Mom. He is dominating- move up and take the challenge- after all in Midget, Junior and beyond-nobody will be his age, they will all be older!
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Its a long long road. BW is a stud 95. But he would be average if he played one year up. Honeybaked had a very gifted 95 who this year moved up and played 94 LC. Result? Not much, he was very average until a bigger 94 broke his wrist. Team ILL 94 has gifted 95 who has made all the 95 select teams in the past. Result? The MWEHL has him scoreless this season. One year up is a tough jump. Two gifted 95's are living proof of that this season.
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There are kids playing up in almost every organization. Some are still excellent while playing up. In most cases - no one know they are younger players.
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Very- Do you think players should have a easy road to score every year? Do you think all these top players will step in at Midget, Junior and College and score easy and stroll down the ice uncontested? They need a year to fight for their ice, their goals etc to develop as all around players. Yes it is tough on the 95's playing 94's but that's fine. If you measure a player just on how many goals he gets it will be very tough on him at some point. Wayne Gretzky played Junior at 15. Bobby Orr at 14. Pat Kane is playing guys twice his age now because he was dominating at Midget and Junior. Maybe the Hawks should send him back to the OHL to score 3 per game , mot get hurt and develop his touch. BW and other 95's should play 94's this season and maybe stay down in a national year.
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WOW , how can you threw out names like the one's above and compare them to a 95 from LA selects? The superstar pro's you mention above were playing up 2 and 3 levels. They were great and needed to play at higher levels. Let BW try the 94 level, he's not much better then the two that are skating up these season. He will be very average at best. he will have average size and speed at the 94 level. Overall the 95 level is a weak level, not very deep at all.
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I don't think BW would be average if he moved up...He would still be at the top...Primarily, the kid is agressive. He can hit, and he can take a hit. Next, he will be quick as a '95, '94 or even '93. The thought that great '95s become mediocre as '94s just is not true. The mere fact that we are talking about a kid's move up a level at AAA is a testament to the fact that he is a great player. In the commentary of youth hockey, everyone sees to want to knock the gifted kids down a notch.
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Look last everyone new that HB and LA were the two best teams. There was a huge gap between those two teams and the next 3-15 rated teams. HB was loaded with top talent just like LA. Fernandez made the jump. His kid believe or not was thought as one of the very best players on one of the very best team JUST LIKE BW. He moved up to the 94's. He played OK, get it? Just OK, not great no were even close to the glory days at 95 HB. Then a bigger, stronger, faster 94 broke him in two and he's been out every since. These are facts. BW could end up in the NHL one day or believe or not he may never see the USHL or D1 hockey. If this puzzles you its just because you have not been around this great game long enough. The coach.
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TF and SP are playing up because of individual skill level.BW sees the ice and makes his teammates better.
TF/SP struggle at the 94 level because they haven't figured out that hockey is a team game. BW is a team player
HB 95 has outstanding goaltending and probably the best set of defensmen in the age group.
LA stays on top because of great talent up front.
BW, MB play hard and use their teammates well.
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TF & SP are failing because they can't skate around or threw the next level up. Remeber the 94 group is filled with big , skilled 185LB players. TF was crushed and injuried trying to play 95 hockey at the 94 level.
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There are a lot of factors that should decide if a child (13-15 is a tweener) should or could moveup to the next age diffence. Bear in mind that birth year team have really only taken hold in the past 6 years so the better first year players did in fact play with the 2nd year kids.
Size plays a role, but so does speed, fearlessness, and the biggest factor of all is determination. There will be kids that will fade as time goes on simply because they don't have the determination or will to push themselves or to continue to make the sacrifices that are necessary to succeed.
If a kid makes the jump but remains positive and shows a determination to overcome age difference then I think that player will grow and succeed. If the child starts to blame the refs, can't stand the heat in the kitchen (in front of the net) then it might be time to invest in a pair of skiis or snowboard.
Bottom line, determination is the key to succeed with the obvious caveat that you have to have talent.
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A top first year kid at the AA level usually if not always will still be a top kid on his second year team. You are right, ( six-seven years ago) CSDHL really started separating the minor (first year) from major (second year)at the Tier 2 level. However, the Minor/Major ages have existed at AAA for at least the last 30 years if not always. A top kid at the AAA Minor level has to be a special kid to play up in his "tweener" years as you call them. Once puberty has really taken affect (Midgets for the most part), the cream will rise to the top, whatever their age.
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There is another snake in the grass. Playing for the 95' Wi. Fire Hockey Club. #12 (TC), he has out scored (BW) in every tournament last year including this summer in Minnesota. This was the first tournament (Nike/Bauer 2008) where (BW) has beaten (TC). However (TC) matched him in goals and played one less game. Earlier in the summer the top 8 AAA teams met. (TC) dominated the play where (BW) struggled. (BW) also plays for a much stronger team. In last years Silver/Stick quarter final game. LA shadowed (TC) for the entire game. (BW) may be more powerfull up front with size and strength, but (TC) see's the ice better, is a much better passer and play maker and seldom takes a penalty. They both have the same scorers touch. (BW) is more versitale, being used at all positions at any time of a game. The 95' Wi. Fire play against many Bantam teams in Minnesota. Where the age difference is much greater. You can be 15 years old and still play Bantam hockey in Mn. depending on where your birthday falls. Many of these teams will have 5-10 players, 93's & 94's, and some 95's. (TC) dominates the play, against many of these older players. I have watched (BW) for the last three years and he is a great player. But have coached (TC) for the last 4 years. With (TC) there are know highs or lows. (TC) is highly sought by (SSM) and many other top prep schools in a huge hockey area of Minnesota.
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Belive it or not there is a 95 who play's on the 94 Madison Capital team. He's never played 95 and does a super job at the 94 level. A real big kid who looks like he's been ready to shave for the last 3 years. His dad is the head coach ( Butcher). The youngster may of hit 90% of his growth at a very young age. this is a huge factor that many don't understand at the younger levels BUT becomes clear as the day at the MM level. We will all have a chance to say one day, do your remember how big that kid was as a bantam? Mnay grow early and many catch up late.
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we played the Caps this year and I thought Butcher was the best player on the ice. i was amazed to learn he was a 95. long way to go though,...it's a marathon, not a sprint.
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Are you talking about (JJ) big powerfull foward who also can play D. We love watching (JJ) play he is worth the price of admission. Other than that, we have seen you guy's play many times and have played against you many times and know one else sticks out. Clearly when we talk of (BW) and (TC) were talking about 250-300 point seasons year after year.
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Todays AAA teams play a lot of games, there is know dought about that. But these two players seem to get it done, day in day out. I know that (BW) was up there with (TC) last season. (TC) aprox. 65 games played, over 150 G & 100 A. I am sure he is close to 50 goals already in 15 or so games. These two guys figure in on most of there teams scoring.
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BW 95 LA Selects, AE 95 LA Selects, T Butcher 94 Mad Cap's, JJ H 94 Colo, TG 95 Dallas. I'm sure there are many many more great one's but for now these are the diamonds at the 95 level.
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Regarding (TC)#12, 95 Fire again, go back and look at the tournament records. Check, Point streak or these tournaments, from last year and this early season. Nike/Bauer, Silver Stick, Nationals, King of the Rockies, Prospects last two years. Golden Walley Mn. He tops the list in all of these tournaments. This team 95 Fire does not have the talent that (HB) or (LAS) or any of the other top teams have. If the coaching staff of LAS who are top notch, shadow (TC) when they play each other, that says something.
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Over reliance on statistics at this age are completely misleading. What do lopsided statistics say for a team, an individual player or a coach? Does that mean the kid is a selfish puck hog? Does that mean the parents are driving this? Does that mean that his team stinks or that the player is in a weak league? Consider the following, not necessarily in order:
1. Athleticism
2. Heart
3. Knowledge of the game
4. Work ethic
5. Can the player be coached
6. Size
7. Role for a particular team
8. Discipline
9. Grades
10. Poise
These factors are more important that statistics. Statistics are easily manipulated and should not be a primary consideration for player assessment.
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I agree, too much focus on Pointstreak. Some players get much more ice time than others (PP for example or double shifting), play with better players on a line etc. leading to more oppportunity for points. We like your list but would like to see grades a little higher, so important as they get into high school and work toward NCAA opportunities.
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Like the post, too, and would also stress SPEED. Have seen many young players who exhibit all the good things listed above and who are excellent atheletes/not just good hockey players begin to fall behind. It seems that even many of these very skilled, multi-dimensional players who lack natural speed start to be noticeably less productive at the Bantam age.
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Great topic and I enjoy all the communication with zero name calling. I come at this from a former highest level hockey athlete. Also as a current scout and coach for over 20 years. What we look at, is the players pace, skill level (passing, shooting, Stick handling, skating. The players competiveness(How they relate in certain situations). How they perform with out the puck (positioning). At 13 years old it is tough. After a young player go's thru the change. It is much easier to evaluate once the change occurs. However I agree that points are not everything. Let me evaluate these players that we have dicussed. I have coached three of them and coached against two of them. Lets talk about (JJ), may not score a ton of points but is a great role player. Can play any where on the ice very well. Needs to work on skating, speed and quickness. (WB) Madison kid, can dominate a game, top 95 prospect because he can play great D, and has great offensive skills. Try's to do to much at the 95 level, not so much at the 94 level. (BW) great skills, great in open ice. Very physical player, needs to see the ice better, takes foolish penalties. (TC) great corner player comes up with the puck 90% of the time. Great skills and ice vision. Needs to work on entire defensive game. The kid from Dallas former (HB)player. Pure power forward, great shot. Very tough to stop North & South. Needs to work on East/West mobility. Plays better with another player who can get him the puck with time and space. Most of these players will not go away, you will see them as the year's go by, still dominating. But most, dominating players now will still be dominating later. There is only a small percentage of players who struggle now from ages 14-17, that will all of a sudden get it and become dominate players.
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Nice job soming up the players. each year I seem to watch the MM stats just to see how the locals are doing. It does seem that there a many new players leading the scoring pack. Clev has 2 and there are some new faces in the Chicago area coming on. The 92 level seem to be going just fine at the MM level.
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Here is an all star team of 95 talent. TG of Dallas 94 is border line. Good kid, Tremdous scoring skills and instincts,not a hard worker, mom who is a distarction.
Goalies:
IJ HB 95
EV Team Maryland 95
EC LAS 95
Forwards:
BW LAS 95
MB LAS 95
AE LAS 95
JJH Colorado 94
TF LC 94
TC Fire 95
JP HB 95
EA HB 95
MS LC 95
MR CB 95
JH WE 95
AT BT 95
Honorable Mentions:
GS Fury 95
SP TI 94
TG Dallas 94
JTC TI95
JE CBJ 95
GR BT 95
AO LAS 95
TM LAS 95
PP Buffalo 95
NR Pitts 95
Defense:
WB Madison 94 (maybe the best in the age group)
SS WE 95
#4 TI 95
#24 HB 95
#18 HB 95
#6 LC 95
#18 LC 95
Honorable mentions:
#8 BT 95
#8 HB 95
#11 HB 95
#47 WE 95
Teams:
LAS and HB 95 are in a class by themselves. There are teams that can play with them and even beat them once in a while.
However if there is a multiple game serias these two will always end up in the finals.
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From one scout to another scout, good scouting. That is how I see it. Clearly the top 4-5 players at the 95 level hold a huge advantage to the rest of the pack. And (LAS) and (HB) are in a league of there own. Top 95' teams may hang with them for a period or two but, come to the third it's over. I have been impressed with the entire (TI) program this year at most levels. They have done a wonderfull job of putting things together. I do not know the inner working of the Chicago teams. But there seems to be a lot of ship jumping. There seem's to be, know love lost between these local teams. But in any case (TI) seems to be on the right track. As for the 95' Russian Red team, live and learn. Get your head up and move the puck. Do not force plays, recycle and move with out the puck. Look to force two on one's all over the ice. Total (TEAM) effort. They play the way the game should be played. They make it look easy. (Hint North American Hockey Player) It is amazing what a few tape to tape passes can provide.
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Wow. Not a very flattering representation of Illinois youth hockey development. To the "scouts": how do you rank the '94 and '93 players across the country? Interested in seeing how you rank (if any) Illinois players there.
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I said (TI) has done a wonderfull job at most level's. I spend most of my time in Mn. & Wi. Have seen the U18 (TI) play a few times and U16 (TI) play a few times so far. They are very good, I think they are currently placed in the ranking's where they should be. As for players the U18 (TI) I can not remember his name, but he can really move and has very good ice vision. One of there scorers. There are many good player's playing out of the Chicago area. Do they have the numbers of skilled players like in Mn. or some Eastern states. Not yet but they are on the right road. Every year there programs get better. It is great to see.
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anyone that follows pointstreak is clueless. the stats are never correct. you must watch games to see talent. I agree with previous poster, they are easily manipulated.
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not even close to accurate. you also have coaches and managers messing with the stats. giving kids and parents statistics are nothing but trouble for the team.
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Point steak is not gospel, however it is the officail score sheet from a game. Granted the refs do make mistakes and seldom add a third assist to the scorer. And mistakes are made by a volinteer score keeper some times. But they are pretty acurate. The point streak guide is for your reference. I do not need a score sheet to evaluate talent. But most dominate players will have huge numbers as they procide thru the different age groups and leagues. If your on the third line and scored 1 goal in 50 games, the scouts are not going to be driving 300 miles to come watch you play. The track record of players domination is eye catching. If your player is not at the top of the list in pace,skills or ice vision at 14-18 he will be a great recreational player and that is fine. They out number the pro's 1,000,000, 000 to 1.
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Look at the list again 2 or 3 of the 6 you mentioned are listed. The others you list all deserve consideration and are very fine players, but like any list is is subjective. If you step back though you would have a very hard time convincing that AL, MC, AO are going to beat out anyone on the starting list.
I believe they all would be right there. I think the boy from Idaho would be ahead of AO (LAS) and I should have included him originaly.
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JJ was huge and dominating last year among 95 around this time. He is no longer a huge dominating player anymore. That is why we say one year at a time.
It is not a secret BW is the best 95 out of California and probably the best ever out of California. For many reasons he chose not to play 94AAA this year, he will be only above average among 94 anyway. (No, he is not the next great one.)
Many of our kids here have similar qualities. Identifying them as studs does not help developing them. It helps their parents' ego. For 95's, they have a long way to go. Give them time.
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Chicago has many players who excel at hockey, many will be moving up the ranks, while other's will move down the latter. Players real start to take off between the age's of 15-16. Many have went to there change at a early age while the rest start freshmen year or later. There are a few factors that will be needed to keep improving. Size becomes a factor, a bigger stronger body will be able to take the pounding or wear and tear of the game moving forward. Winning battle's in corners, taking hard checks, winning there one on one's etc. Birthyear ends sooner then you think. Being under sized dosn't real help moving forward. Take in a good JA A game, there zero players playing at 135lbs. The smaller players seem to fade at the higher levels. Please note being big dosn't get you a roster spot to JR's either. Is he coachable? Can he take a huge hit ? Can he sit the bench and still love the game? Roles change moving forward, the once goal scorer could become the PK player or a third liner. At this time we will know if they are hockey players. There's nothing better then being the young star as long as they still love playing if there role changes. Most don't.
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