Just wondering what is going to happen to the 4 AAA clubs. I've heard that fury and cya are going to be dumped. I've also heard that all 4 clubs are going to stay, even possibly the addition of a fifth "AAA" team. Is this new system going to make it easier for kids to make midget AAA? or more difficult?
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Even with the current 20 MM organizations in the Midwest Elite, USA Hockey will be hard pressed to find 16 additional quality organizations to field a league of 36. USA Hockey needs the MWEHL to add credibilty to their concept. Detroit is saying all or none. Could turn into the same situation USA Hockey had with Minnesota and the MWEHL brakes off on their own.
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Hey folks-smell the coffea,your son is either in or he is out.
If he is not the top two HPC club player by now,at his own age group,he will never be one.Accept this and move on .Most of D1 OR NHL players were always the top guys at their age group and the ones that were not, dissipated over time or became what is called grinders.
Ex-NHL player,1O Year Veteran.
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great time to add costs to youth hockey. only a quasi government burocracy like usa hockey could ignore the effects of the economy on there membership. parents have been stretching to cover costs all along,now many wont be able to.dumb time try to implement somthing that can only be accomplished with higher fees.
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you are kidding-most AAA players are there because of their skils
as parents whose kids do not make it have no choice but to go to AA.Difference in total cost(Ice time,travel)is probably only
about 20% as I have seen AA teams travel just as much!.Any money you could save count but if the difference is $2,000 parents should not be in hockey in first place.
Secondly,in Illinois most good AAA teams would destroy good AA Team on any given day.
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AA is a joke. By saying that the money is the only difference is just an excuse that AA parents make. A 93 AA team would get manhandled by any 94 AAA team in the state. end of story.
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I love the people who talk about the "democracy" of MWEHL and how they will be "voting" on whether to approve the HPC concept. This is hilarious.
The MWEHL poobah's that think THEY are making the decisions are basically captain's of the Titanic. This decision is OVER, if you haven't figured it out. They can all vote up or down or sideways on whether to join the HPC leagues. It doesn't matter. The best players will in a year or two figure out that they need to be in a High Performance Club, and the MWEHL will be a footnote in history. Maybe not this upcoming year, but it won't take long. Let's see, do I want to play for a USA Hockey system where I am going to get the absolute best training and the most exposure? Or do I want to play for a dying franchise clinging to glory days in the past.
If I were a MWEHL owner, and I was making my living off of youth hockey, I would be on every message board like this politicking my buns off to save my paycheck. Unfortunately USA Hockey has already pulled the trigger on this and come hook or crook, you would be smart to get on board.
There will be two HPC's in Chicago, and three in Michigan. If the dying empires of Michigan MWEHL don't want to apply, I am sure there will be plenty of clubs who would do backflips to get HPC status.
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AA itself is not the joke. The AA parents that claim cost is the only reason their precious superstar is not playing AAA are a joke.
In spite of all the USAH, MWEHL, CS and NIHL politics and money grabbing hockey is still a great sport and there should be someplace for everyone to play without all the elitist bs.
It's too bad we keep trying to recreate the wheel and now we have parents paying $3000 to play bronze "travel" when they should be playing house for a third of the cost. Soon there will be others paying $5000+ for the "privilege" of telling anyone who will listen that Johnny plays AAA when this level will be diluted by the top talent going to HPC.
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I would not be surprised if MWEHL issues a similar statement soon.
At least there is a ton of pressure on USA Hockey now to delay implementation of this idea until they have better thought out the realities. If people are crunching numbers and finding out that they cannot make this thing the same or less cost as USA Hockey thinks it should be then USA Hockey needs a rethink!
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UPDATE: USA Hockey Presentation on LTAD and HPC - AYHL Decisions and Concerns
February 7, 2009
(continued from home page)
The AYHL Board made up of 20 organizations that field both Tier I & II youth teams, Junior teams and House League programs:
Voted unanimously to support the LTAD initiative of USA Hockey. While there are some aspects that seem challenging to implement or even practical for some members, we recognize the value of the science and research and will encourage our members to follow it to the best of their ability. The league will review it more closely to determine what elements we feel we can collectively accept as part of our rules of our League.
The AYHL Board, by a vote of 18 -1 -1, overwhelmingly rejects the HPC Concept for a variety of different reasons.
Immediately following the presentation, the Membership discussed all of the various issues, and the following concerns were raised and we continue to receive concerns from member clubs and families;
First, there is a complete misunderstanding about the NHL Funding. The NHL grant, will NOT be funding this program at the Club level. Most Clubs have built their own models and estimate players tuition would rise between $8,600 to $15,000 per player, if under HPC Guidelines. Again, none of this will be covered by the NHL Grant or USA Hockey. USA Hockey will be using this money to hire staff to oversee HPC Clubs from a compliance standpoint.
Some programs have already announced that they will not seek to be part of the HPC. Once the status of all AYHL members is clear, we will publish that information on our web site.
USA Hockey could not provide any information nor did they perform any activities that would give a perspective HPC applicant some financial guide to follow.
Members expressed concerns that they genuinely do not believe in the HPC concept but may feel pressure to apply simply out of defensive measures because of a likelihood that USA Hockey would settle for "weaker" organizations for the simple reason of getting some traction in the market place.
Additionally, USAH could not explain or state how programs would be selected, or who would actually be making the selections. USAH also claimed to have "Detroit area" programs on board, and shortly after the meeting, most of the Detroit area Clubs reached out to the League and various members to state emphatically that they have not made ANY commitment to be part of the HPC.
The roll-out window is simply too short for the HPC implementation and is being unnecessarily rushed by USA Hockey without any explanation. There are still too many unknowns. Nearly every organization already has its commitments for ice, coaching, etc, for the coming season and unraveling that without more information is an improbably task.
Many areas of the country have already rejected HPC and AYHL Member Clubs wish to continue their relationships with many of these programs and events.
The HPC portion seems to be in a constant state of change, almost on a daily basis. What was rolled out in Florida and in the initial documentation changed in our presentation; i.e. no playing non-HPC competition, no national or end of season tournament as stated in previous documents or statements has now been modified to allow those events to occur, and no explanation was provided for that change.
What else will change? How can any Club or Rink expect to apply, when the parameters keep changing?
USAH fails to recognize that there are many programs that are already doing some of what is suggested, especially within the midget and junior programs.
For example, USA Hockey already requires Tier III Junior programs to provide 4 to 6 weekly hours of on-ice practice time, as well as off-ice training; league schedules are at 45 regular season games, plus playoffs and Nationals, keeping the total games to less than 60 games; and other worthy requirements. In other words, USAH is trying to reinvent the wheel when perhaps only fine tuning is needed.
USAH doesn't follow its own recommendations on the number of games for its NTDP teams. The Under 17 team could be require to play as many as 85 games in regular season and playoff competition, plus its international competition schedule. How can USAH expect the rest of the country to keep to HPC standards, when USA Hockey doesn't imposed the same standards on its own teams?
At a recent Allstar event for the MET and AJHL, several attending college and pro scouts indicated that they do not support the HPC and USA Hockey has failed to provide any meaningful endorsements from hockey professionals not associated with USA Hockey.
There are many other concerns not only shared by members in this league, but concerns shared by many notable Clubs and hockey leaders throughout the Country. Several organizations from the Mid-west reached out to the AYHL to extend their appreciation for making our meeting available on the web. As a result, they sited several discrepancies, particularly the characterizations that several mid-west Clubs were already on board. Those clubs indicated to the AYHL that they are not on-board and share many of the same concerns.
Finally, the League recognizes that the LTAD and HPC initiatives are USA Hockey programs, and while we as a League do not support the HPC aspect of this initiative, our members however do have a right and an obligation to explore the HPC and make a determination if that program fits the needs of their customers, and do so without any concerns as to its effects on their membership within the AYHL.
The League Membership must advise the League Office by March 1st, if it intends to make application for a USAH HPC. If the Club is accepted, then its expected that Club would not compete in the AYHL for the coming season. If the HPC application is rejected, then we expect that member to field its complement of teams in the AYHL.
We are deeply concerned about the pressure this is putting on our Member Clubs, and believe this new race for youth hockey supremacy will make the sport less affordable, more elitist, and the greater costs having to be carried by all players, including those in the Tier II and recreation levels; that, in and of itself could cause irreparable harm to the entire sport and ice arena business.
Recently, Minnesota Hockey stated that the HPC model does not fit their needs, but would be meeting with USA Hockey to to fashion our own version of the programs to enhance the playing experience of all of our players and that Minnesota Hockey is committed to preserving all that is unique about hockey in our state. (The full article may be found on the LETS PLAY HOCKEY website).
We applaud Minnesota Hockey and we are now working with our Districts to encourage the same dialog with USA Hockey so that we too are not forced into a model that may not be suitable for our region. The AAHA is trying to facilitate such an effort at this time. To that end, we have strongly cautioned USA Hockey to rethink its position in its rush to implement the HPC portion of its program.
We hope this provides some of the answers that you are looking for and would encourage you to keep sending us your questions and to provide feedback to USA Hockey.
Yours in Hockey,
Glenn Hefferan, AMHL President
Gene Palecco, AYHL Commissioner
Dick Foster, AMHL Commissioner
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All these statements about leagues rejecting the HPC concept really need to be analyzed. Of course the leagues are going to make these statements. Can you really imagine a league saying "we totally embrace the concept of the HPC, even though it means we will be losing the top end of our league which means our league will now have second tier status if we even survive at all"?
The clubs are the ones who count here, and ultimately it will be the players that vote with their feet. If my son truly is a top player and there is an HPC club on one side of the street, and a non-HPC on the other, I am going to get my kid into the USA Hockey system--for both athletic and political reasons.
It is simple to see why the leagues are so against this. They are getting cut out. And, what is a league really? It is an organization that serves a function for a specific sport--arranging for teams to play each other. If the MWEHL or AYHL ceased to exist tomorrow, that vacuum would be filled immediately with another group that arranges for teams to play each other. That is the main value of a league.
I trust USA Hockey, beholden to Congress, much more than a bunch of league commissioners.
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why do we even need usa hockey? most people I talk to prefer more autonomy within their teams, organizations, and leagues anyway. what does USA hockey actually contribute other than insurance and organizing the national tournament? I do not see any reason why orgs and leagues feel compelled to part of usa hockey.
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First, the league is formed by the clubs not the other way around, so when a league is voting against something a majority of the clubs have voted same. Secondly, HPC is supposed to be the highest tier however, if the top areas of the country are not buying this than its a hoax. You need top competition to truly be the top level. On the other hand if you just want say, your kid plays on the highest level jump in now.
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Deep throat would not reveal all to Woodward and Bernstein but always said, "Follow the money." That is my advice to everyone in this matter. Who will be making money from this program? Have heard that there will be District Directors paid full time by USA Hockey (I mean from your dues.) Are there others who will be on USA Hockey payrolls? Where is the budget? Reveal who will be getting the money and all will become clear.
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I'm from Colorado and read your board frequently because the people from Illinois are hockey smart. My son is a 95 and and plays 94AA for the simple reason it IS too expensive. I feel confident he could have made either 94AAA team in Colorado, however $13,000 for one team and $10,000 for the other is too much, especially in this economy. Hockey is a huge part of our lives, but not THAT huge.
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Wow! I know the 95 parents in Illinois b**** about our fees $5k to $6k and then the clubs nickle and dime you over everything else/extras. Our friends in Michigan are paying $1,800 to $3,000 depending what club.
At $10k to $13k I may have to look for a different sport...Does that include travel costs???
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At least you said "most AAA" would destroy them, not all, as in the 96 fury, now thats a joke!
as most of them was playing house league last two years.
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Minnesota hockey is very good, there teams are average.. We have had teams go up and play in SSM Bantam Major Tournament, and play against teams a year older. not that good.
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what kind of impact will this change have on prep school hockey such as Shattuck/ StM? If the HPC's can only play each other, who will these guys play and will they have lack of exposure to NCAA because they are not on the HPC route?
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Those are details that will be worked out over the course of the next year.Not being able to play "out of conference" games is an issue most people have w the plan as it was presented.
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The future plans for High Proformance Club can be found in Colorado. Talk to Tier 1 people there and ask who gets to have teams and who doesn't this year. It has nothing to dowith how good a team is only who has US hockey connections.
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Now thats news! Welcome to Illinois son...you must be new round these parts...I want you to meet the Gov. he will show you how things work here and if you still have questions call 1600 Penn Av in DC...you too can be a czar for only 7k give or take...
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90's 91's 92's 93's 94's you should sign up for the Monstershowcase.com to get seen its down in ST.Louis April 10 11 12 go to the web site at www.monstershowcase.com
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Your right WOW. US hockey says it wont effect non-hpc tier 1 teams but really they will only allow chicago probly 2 AAA teams and the rest get to be AA if they don't end up with the gov cause that is the only way to force the players they want. they are already doing it in colorado. Do like Minn and the east coast boys and tell to take a hike dere in colorado.
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Why must you all be experts? 2 teams, 3 teams, HPC...you speculators have no fact based info. Fact is that even the Fury, who may not win a league game at any level but midget minor, will get an HPC. The league will not allow contraction of member teams. TI is the only team at risk. Crooked financial dealings and large amounts of debt are catching up with them. They don't even have a rink to play at this year. Regardless of what USA hockey says, TI may not operate.
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