A question I'm hoping someone may be able to help me with as my instructor is on holidays for the next few weeks.
Awhile ago my horse and I had a battle of the wills. He had never been taught to rein back correctly (now 6 years old) and we would fight like hell to get even a couple of steps backwards, and then after 2 steps would stop and we would go through it all again.
I would sit there patiently maintaining a constant contact, not pulling back, not clenching with legs, butt or any other part of my body. I finally convinced him that it was much easier to go backwards (after a battle of wills that lasted around 20 odd minutes of just sitting there - let me tell you I was a sodden mess) and he reined back properly and consistently. For some time all has been good and he has been nice and soft etc., etc.
Now I find that if he is out and about with lots of other distractions going on around him and I ask for a rein back, he either goes backwards so fast that I am concerned he will flip over soon, or he goes straight up in the air - neither a very pleasant experience.
HELP!!!!!!......or should I just leave it until my instructor gets back from holidays and try and sort it out with her?
Hi, Kelley,
is this Magic we are talking about????
Anyway, without seeing what is actually happening, it would be a little ambitious to give advise, but the question that came into my mind was: How did you actually teach him to REIN-back?
Did you do groundwork first? Did you have a helper who gently pushed against his chest while you gave the aids?
Or did you attempt it yourself?
I think it must be pretty confusing for a horse to be asked forward and then not being allowed to go. (which in essence is your "drive forward into a non-allowing hand" - o.k. for a horse who already knows what is expected of him.)
Here it sounds like: Confusion makes insecure (not reacting/ lack of understanding what you want), anxious (rushing/therefore out of balance) or even extremely annoyed (rearing).
I believe in your early attempts (quote: "fighting like hell") there was indeed a lot of pulling going on and he finally REINED-back to escape your hand. I also believe that you are now getting the result of that early battle "of wills".
But not to worry. I am sure, your instructor will teach HIM and YOU both the correct way of understanding why the rein-back should really not be called rein-back.
Unfortunately it's always harder to correct something than starting at the beginning. Everything must be kept simple and clear for the horse to understand. (and in this case a helper on the ground is the easiest. Facing a wall would be another way, if you haven't got a helper. One, two steps is fine at the beginning and always go forward immediately.)
Something else what I think is interesting: The Germans call this movement "rueckwaerts richten" which means "directing backwards"
Hi Carola thanks for responding. No, not Magic but his older brother Oakley who is a chestnut anglo arab (aka "naughty red one"!!!).
I have been having some problems with him for some time (ill fitting saddle for which I now slap myself), but appeared to be working it out quite well with him since his recovery from Salmonella and reintroduction of "work".
His problem has always been that he is very quick to look for an out with work and I have learnt over time that if I "hang off" his mouth etc., he actually enjoys the argument because it takes pressure off the original thing I was asking, i.e. soft, round frame.
He had been taught the "parelli rein-back" by the lady who bred both my boys when started under saddle and had never properly taught rein-back as a movement.
The "fight" was when the instructor was there and it was done by helping to move back, stop and reward, but when he wasn't helped he wouldn't do it and you could see him almost clench his teeth as if to say "No, I won't do it!!!". So it was basically a thing of having to sit on his back and maintain the contact until he stepped back, then release and reward. Well for that 20 minutes he tried to go forwards (which of course I wouldn't allow), sideways, circled, any way but back). This was his argument with me purely because he didn't want to do it, and this is his personality. It had nothing to do with him being confused I can definitely assure you. Eventually he decided it wasn't worth maintaining the battle of wills and he calmly took his steps back and had immediate release.
Each time after that for some months he did it calmly, willingly (most of the time!!), and softly. He still does when he is in an indoor with no other horse working around him.
But put him out in the open, with other horses and distractions and he is a nightmare to rein-back (in fact to ride full-stop). I am really at a loss as to what to do. I am beginning to think it is more of a socialisation problem as he is rarely ridden with other horses around (aside from adult riders and competitions where he is fairly highly strung anyway).
Sorry for the length, I just thought I would explain more to give you a little more insight.
Hi, again,
I am trying to picture it all.
Could it be that he had physical trouble stepping back, originally ? (Back/Pelvis/Hocks?)- which could explain the session when your instructor was present (stepping sideways, circling)with the problem re-occurring on and off?.
However, there are a few other things that "jumped at me", so to speak, when reading through your answer.
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You say "His problem has always been that he is very quick to look for an out with work and I have learnt over time that if I "hang off" his mouth etc., he actually enjoys the argument because it takes pressure off the original thing I was asking, i.e. soft, round frame." <
I don't have to tell you that you should never "hang off" his mouth. If you don't play the game, he won't. Don't give him reason to argue.
So the general question arises: How do you ask him for the soft, round frame? How much do you ask with your rein in comparison to the driving leg? Remember, you RECEIVE in your hand what you create with your driving aids.
What his un-cooperativeness "in public" (and obvious related problems)is concerned:
I don't believe he has a personal vendetta against you going. ;-)I'd rather expect it to be a much deeper problem which might originate in his original education - or lack of it.
Horses live in the presence, a "battle of wills" is the resistance to something uncomfortable or painful. It is up to you to find out what it is.
Distractions (and we all get them), can only take hold of him when his attention is not on the rider but something else instead.
He is obviously a very sensitive horse, but hiding it well behind layers of ovasive behaviour - caused by what???
As I said, without seeing him it's very hard to analyse.
Hope you will continue to tactfully ask and continue to give him the chance to do his best for you. Most (!) horses want to please, if they physically and mentally can.
(But you know that).
Just thought I would let you know Carola - I was tensing my butt and lower back rather than just sitting (and there I was thinking I was just sitting) - thereby putting pressure on my seat. All is coming along well.