A question from an aspiring Seiko gear head to the established gear heads:

I picked up a new SKX007 from one of the deal-a-day sites. It keeps decent enough time, but it looks a mess on the timing machine. The trace is so noisy that the timing machine has a hard time detecting the beat rate. This is in all six positions. I'm sure there are a million causes for this when dealing with a movement that's worn and in need of service, but what could cause this to happen with a brand-new movement?

Thanks!
Myles

I don't know your machine and pick-up type, but if you want to verify, remove the movement from the case and put it on the timing machine. If the signal is much clearer, then the thick case is probably preventing the machine from getting a clear reading. Sometimes with a thick case, orienting the crown to be in contact with one of the pick-up supports will allow the sound to transfer better to the sensor. Or try holding the case in the pick-up by the spring bars instead of the case sides. Beyond that, there are too many actual causes of a watch not running properly to list. Or I am too lazy to do so...

--Noah R.

The odd thing is that I have another watch with the same case and movement (Seiko 7S26-002[09], catalog number SKX007K) that shows a health trace on the same timing machine. Thanks again for your suggestions, and I'll keep the forum posted with my results.

Best,
Myles

If you've had success timing the same case before with the machine, then it could actually be an issue with the movement. The usual suspects would then apply- magnetism, improper endshakes, hairspring mal-adjustment, improper lubrication (especially to escapement and balance pivots), and lastly and most commonly, a nose hair caught in the hairspring. Sorry, it's my day off.

--Noah R.

Noah,

I placed the movement (still in the plastic spacer) on the timing machine, and it was still a mess. I'm going to try demagnetizing next.

Thanks again for your help!
Myles

I find a speaker very important if you suspect a trace is not being picked up correctly due the the watches mechanical problems.

If the watch does have problems so bad that they are causing a bad trace, you can usually hear it once you amplify it and listen closely. I use this as confirmation that I must go deeper then the timer will allow me, IE, Look at all the moving parts and find out whats wrong. What I mean to say is that generally, if you can hear a nice "clean" tick when amplified, you should be able to at least get a readable trace as a starting point.

A magnetized trace will look like this, (perhaps even more skeewed)......................
http://www.fototime.com/{0B58F56E-670D-4B53-8BD2-006C5DAFF95B}/origpict/

One nagging issue with the 7s26 is its very quit tick. I can not express how quit this movement can be at times. Couple this with a thick case and you can get two exact same watches running different traces, and it can be frustrating at times. It took me at least two years to really get a feel for the machine and how to set it up, how to opperate it. Just having the machine does not account for experiance and anyone trying to set up a timer to read correctly must have some experiance before everything starts to go smoothly. Your best bet is to find as many good running watches as you can and use those first to get a feel for the machine and setting it up to read them correctly, and only then go on to trying to diagnose and regulate using it. To sum up, a timing machine is only as effective as the operators experience. So you must build that before trying to use it as the tool it is.

BTW, what kind of machine is it? One of those nice new chinese ones? I`m interested in those now that they are sub 500 money, but only once I`ve heard that they are reliable and not a waist of money.

Cheers,
Radall



____________________________________________________________
Seikoholic
Dr.Seiko,
Specializing in Seikology, Seikotherapy, and other Horological Dis-ease.
Made in the U.S.A.

"Nemo vir est qui mundum non reddat meliorem"

On pages 301 to 308 he tells you a little bit about how they work, and gives you some samples traces to study.

I bet if you even Google vibrograph trace, you may find some examples if not some old vibrograph literature. Knowing what looks like what and WHY, will have to be applied right after you get to know how to set it up,

Its allot of fun (having the machine), but it can be distressing at first. Lots of study and application though will make it worth it.

Cheers,
Randall



____________________________________________________________
Seikoholic
Dr.Seiko,
Specializing in Seikology, Seikotherapy, and other Horological Dis-ease.
Made in the U.S.A.

"Nemo vir est qui mundum non reddat meliorem"

I've got to reread that section.

Thanks again!
Myles

That's exactly what my trace looks like. I've got to dig out my compass.

The machine is a Chinese MTG-1000. It does have a speaker, but I think it merely plays a simulated "tick" whenever it "hears" one. In other words, you don't hear the actual sound. I had to send the first one back, but this one has been trouble-free. It's fine for a hobbyist (me), but I wouldn't recommend one for a professional. I used it to successfully time all of my watches, and this one was the only problem child (and brand-new from a deal-a-day site!).

Thanks for your help!

Best,
Myles

That, if I can be so blunt, sounds cracker jack to me.

You got to be able to hear what is really going on, such as: is the roller overbanking, is the hairspring harmonizing (singing) due to its touching itself or something else or poor adjustment, is the beat so far off it sounds like a horse with three legs. Is something knocking and its causing a bad amplitude. Things like this. This is why even the oldest timers have a amplifier on them.

I fixed a bent balance this last year because I could hear it ever so slightly rubbing on the protruding edge of the hair spring stud. The amplitude was wonkey, but I don't think I would have ever found it, or found it as easily, as I could when I amplified the tick and started placing it in positions. Sure enough, dial up, I could hear a slight "clack" and scrapping sound, I put some machinists purple on it (the stud) and it transfered to the balance in the next running test. This was on a 6159 highbeat and the smaller space in these parts made it just about impossible to see anything.

A "simulated" tick kinda sounds like a useless option, can you confirm?
It may make any decision I have on the timer much easier.

Cheers,
Randall

____________________________________________________________
Seikoholic
Dr.Seiko,
Specializing in Seikology, Seikotherapy, and other Horological Dis-ease.
Made in the U.S.A.

"Nemo vir est qui mundum non reddat meliorem"