File Lawsuit First, Ask Questions Later

$800,000,000 defamation lawsuit. Hitler. A strawberry farmer named Ronnie Fulwood. Giulio Bissiri, a descendant of Ethopian emperor Haile Selassie. Gold bonds. World War II. Self promoting attorney Edward Fagan. And a little forum hosting site named Network54.

This week, our president, Chris Moser, is in Washington D.C. with the US Chamber of Commerce at congressional hearings about lawsuit abuse. We have experienced such "shoot first" abuse. When it is a lawyer, its "File Lawsuit First, ask questions later." Never mind the damage...

In a nutshell, someone posted a message on a bank related forum that is hosted with us that listed the strawberry farmer as someone not to deal with, in particular, relating to the buying and selling of gold bonds. So he sued us for "damaging" his name. No call, no letter, no email. Just a lawsuit before Christmas. And when combined, it ended up at about $800,000,000.

All sorts of things get posted when you have over 5,000,000 people using such a service as ours. We very much try to accommodate people that have been hurt by what others say, within reason. The nicer the request, the more accommodating we are. The nasty legalese letters generally have the opposite effect, and the messages get left up. No need for us to be subpoenaed if the message is still there for all sides of a potential lawsuit to see.

What about our liability that these, and other lawyers claim? What is the liability of AT&T when someone says something bad about someone else on the telephone? Do they get sued? Does a judge sign an injunction that would require AT&T to monitor all phone calls to make sure that so-and-so does say that bad thing about such-and-such? Well, back in the early days, it was a real question. So common carrier laws were created. In the same vein, the CDA section 230 provides us the same protection as the common carrier laws protect AT&T.

So the whole point of the lawsuit wouldn't pass muster in the first place. And these attorneys (Frederick Lowe, Edward Fagan) would have and should have known that. Of course, in their haste to sue before Christmas, they made lots of mistakes.

Their "experts" in the internet field stated that employees of Network54 must be the ones posting since it was on our domain name. If they looked at the home page, they would understand that we are a forum hosting company. Maybe I overrate their intelligence. They were so smart as to figure out our IP address for network54.com as well! Its 205.134.231.54. So they wrote down 205.135.231.54. I guess the whole copy and paste thing was just too complex. Who is at that address? A small branch of John Hancock, which was left wondering how they ever got pulled into a lawsuit where they were also being sued for $800M. To plaintiffs, it was obviously a conspiracy in the financial industry to sully their prospects at winning billions of dollars. With John Hancock owning this Network54 thing, it was obviously part of this grand conspiracy with CommerzBank and the government of Germany. Suing the wrong company is not new to Mr. Fagan.

Which brings out story back to Hitler. Hmm, why do these things seem to always come back to Hitler? Why am I now connected in some bizarre way to Hitler?

Seems that some gold bonds from after the first World War were issued by Germany for reconstruction. Eventually Hitler declared them worthless. Then another World War. Then a final treaty to deal with all these things like the bonds. So some Florida farmer got a hold of some of these and decided to sue someone. Everyone it seems.

Sounds just up Mr. Fagan's alley. Whether it is suing 20th Century Fox over the movie Borat, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration for German tourists hit by the tsunami in Thailand, South Africa over apartheid, or Swiss banks over the Holocaust, if there is sighting of a multi-billion-dollar lawsuit, he seems to be there.

After being informed of their mistakes (we didn't write the message, we didn't read and publish it, we didn't even know about it, we aren't a subsidiary of some branch office of another company in Florida, in fact we are a California company, so you should sue us here, etc.), they still kept up the battle. One of the things that they eagerly wanted was the IP address of the poster. The irony is that the forum owner had the "Show IP Address" option active, and as such, they already had the IP - months before when they originally filed the lawsuit. In fact, since they printed and copied the message into the original complaint, they proved that they had it all along. Their internet "experts" were that good.

So what happened? All motions were denied by the judge. Mr. Fagan was removed from this case. Mr. Lowe tried to get out of it as well. Mr. Fagan has since seen disbarment hearings, the result of which I don't know, and possible bankruptcy. He should watch "My Name is Earl." Might learn something about karma. The poster was never identified. The forum owner still doesn't know that he was also being sued for $800,000,000 (we got him dropped). Fulwood did not drop the case against us until we filed our motion to dismiss, then it came fast and furious to drop all claims before the judge had time to rule on it. I really wanted to push sanctions on the attorneys for filing frivolous lawsuits, and countersue Fulwood.

At that point though, we had already diverted so much of our attention for a long period of time, and continuing to do so, with little chance of seeing cash payback in the end was not the right choice of action. For a three person company, that was already seven months of our time. Being distracted. No more.

Still wish we could get back all those attorney fees we paid in two states (our attorneys were fantastic, by the way). And the time. We really want that time back. And we are still spending some time on this. Chris is in Washington D.C. right now helping to change things, and I'm writing this blog entry.

You can help too. Talk to your elected officials about the waste and damage brought on by frivolous lawsuits. And pass the word about our story. Hit the Digg button. Email your friends.

N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog

In our network 54 forums as well?

What a bunch of bs!

Kathy

Post away! Please!

At least you know what sort of craziness happens behind the scenes..

N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog

are thrown out, the plaintiff pays.

I have got to agree with that one! But the way it plays out now, is that just feel thankful to not be hung up on all the court stuff -- and you know they can just keep going and going if they want to. Particularly if it is a lawyer that is the driving force.

N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog

Please Digg the story! (That is, hit the Digg this button and signin or signup). If we get a couple hundred people to do it, then we can get the story in front of thousands more!

N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog

If someone's name or address or SS# got posted on the forums, that someone upon noticing should ask his or her info removed. The one who sues (suer?) must be very rich and valuable personality if he values his name damage at some forum at $800M. There should be limits set to how much ne can sue, for example tiops at $50,000 or perhaps $500,000 depending on the size of the company. If an individual is sued then the limit should be more like $10,000. In fact, my name been posted on some forum (I was cheated by some USA company and posted about them and in return they posted some of the secret info on the web) and the owner of the forum refused to remove or edit the info. I didn't get to the sue thing, perhaps I should sue, but not for mone, but to remove my info, perhaps I'd sue for "damages" for around $500. Not that I'm not worthy, but because suing for $800M only a special mind can do such a thing.

We always take down personal information. That is just mean to post that stuff. Who wants to empower people to do such a thing?

N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog

Nusance lawsuits are too easy and too costly for American business today. IT is stifling our ability to compete in the world market place. Many of the best companies in the innovative Internet arena, Google, Yahoo etc were not even started by American citizens. They came here because we were the best place to innovate.

Now other options exist and they are being taken to other countries. Immigration is an issue but the big one is the legal environment.

In a way, this is nothing more than a regressive tax. When Lawsuits are filed it should be easier to get Malicious Prosecution or other such remedies actually fully realized.

It automatically cost $30 to $50K to defend against these lawsuits until they are ultimately dropped or dismissed with or without predudice.

what does "digg" do?

BTW: The message in question can be found at Google's forums (likely the original source was USENET):

Search Google Groups


N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog

I don't even know what to say right now, this is absolutely astounding! How do people get so stupid? Oh whoops, could I be sued under a class action lawsuit for saying that?

Guess we all should just bury our heads in the sand and never say or do anything for fear of the stupidity and mindlessness in this world? Nah, I don't think so, I love Network 54 and the fact that we can each have our own little space within the network.

Maybe if these BS {Big Stupid} people dig deep enough, they'll find Hitler himself - I need a rolling the eyes smiley face to insert here!

Good grief! I'll post this on my own forum shortly, have to go be with the family at the moment, but I will spread this around.

Thanks for writing to me, Steven, I hadn't had my daily dose of ridiculous yet - this is so incredibly ridiculous it could be considered an annual dose!!

Alice

my forum is not very big but hopefully it will help if I post your message.

I appreciate you, Chris and all those at Network54 for all you do. I can't think of better hosts.

James Davis
Webmaster for Freedom Village Non-Smoking Forum

I have some ideas for how we can put lawyers to good use. Speed bumps would be a good place to start. Target practice is another. They could also be put to use during a hurricane. Instead of piling up sand bags, we could stack lawyers along the water line. Ballast..... They're full of.... I bet you thought I was going to say something other than "lots of hot air", huh? You were right.......

 

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How is it possible (in USA) to sue for damages for $800 Million? Was it in old German inflatory Reichsmarks perhaps? And if for some insane reason it was US Dollars, how does an individual (or a small company) supposed to pay the $800M in case if they lose the case? Will the U.S. Govt. pay the bill and consequentially adjust their ridiculous laws? What is the top predatory lawsuit amount? 500 Million Trillion? Can the richer person sue for more because he may be worth more? What if the person who is being sued has no money to defend themselves and the plaintiff has plenty of it? Doesn't it become an unfair game? Finally doesn't a plaintiff (in 21st century's USA) who loses have to pay the defendant's lawyer fees and damages caused by his lawsuit? My questions perhaps rhetorical or perhaps not...

"In a nutshell, someone posted a message on a bank related forum that is hosted with us that listed the strawberry farmer as someone not to deal with..."

Could you please provide a link to that message or a copy of the message as it appeared on that "bank related forum"?

Thanks dog, the Justice was served, the plaintiff lost the case. But at what price?

And as a final thought, it is the first (and probably the last) signal for someone to start slowly but surely packing for an overseas move, to a country, where they don't allow ridiculous, and predatory lawsuits. Will try to convince as many companies to move along as possible. Not expecting for the US laws to change before the next millenium. Now understand why manufacturing is leaving America and why USD is getting shamelessly weak. There's yet another good reason for a move - risk of a Coup d'Etat in 2008 once some shrub may decide he may not wanna leave the seat. Someone may wanna sue him for the 3000 Americans killed during the Inside Job if he does (leave the seat). And if you haven't seen the numerous videos on YouTube or Google then search for "911 video" anywhere, anytime.

God could never win a lawsuit, he has no lawyers!!!

cuando los usuarios le informamos a N54 que uno de sus foros es inapropiado, N54 no hace nada.
Durante aņos se informo que el foro Nš 390144 de N54 era difamante para el buen nombre de las personas que alli se mencionaban y N54 una vez mas NO HIZO NADA para evitarlo.
En ese foro se le falto el respeto inclusive al Sr. Presidente de la Republica Argentina, entre otros ciudadanos.
Luego, cuando las demandas legales millonarias aparecen, solicitan apoyo de los usuarios.
Tienen nuestro apoyo pero es MUY importante que cuando pedimos que un foro N54 sea dado de baja por inapropiado, el mismo SEA CERRADO DE INMEDIATO.
De esa manera evitaremos estos quebraderos de cabeza.

Sorry to hear your tale of woe....the politicians are all related to lawyers (Cherie Blair QC earns a lot more than Tony) so dont expect too much from either of their cosy little clubs, wherever you live. Good luck to Network54...a great service, never realised the team was so small, thats probably because you dont rip us off unlike so many of the corporate vultures out there.

Someone called me a name over a motorola radio im going to sue motorola can you recommend a lawyer who will sue with no hesitation




_______________________________________________
Is the poop deck really what i think it is?

It is amazing that this is allowed to happen in our court system. Tell Chris good luck with Congress and let us know what else we can do.

Too many wally wankers wanting a free ride, watch your're back bro, I wonder how many people have been crippled by these tossers,???

In a public toilet of DOT I saw a mirror. Looked at it. It was me in the mirror. How could they (DOT) do this to me?! It wasn't supposed to be me in the mirror! But they did it anyway... It was so stressful to see myself in the mirror, you know, I'm so ugly, and here I saw that ugly face in the mirror. I never saw myself in a mirror before, not at this age and time and this toilet. How could they? I was and still am so stressed out on what I saw in the mirror. It was me, my ugly, scary, scarry face. Like a monster or a zombie. I almost got a heart attack, I had a lot of stress, I almost called 911, but the phone was not there. Should I blame it on myself, on my parents, on my teachers, on the guys whom I fought and who cut my face with their steely knives? No, I'm going to blame it all on DOT, on it's magic mirror, on it's missing public phone that probably never got installed because of all the cellular freaks outthere, which gave me all that stress. It ain't supposed to display my face without my permission anyway... but it did! How could it? How could they? So I'm thinking of sueing DOT for $666 trillion kuwaiti dinars! Yes, Kuwaiti Dinars. Why Kuwaiti dinars? You wanna know the whole story? Well, briefly, it all started with the Gulf war (no, I wasn't there) and ended up in that damn mirror at the public toilet of DOT. So they're gonna wanna pay in Kuwaiti Dinars. All I need is one hell of a lawyer and it's gonna be all cash - 666 TRILLION KUWAITI DINARS!

Story* written by Homus Non-identificus a.k.a. Incognito.


* Haha! You thought I was one of those PITIFUL MORONS to really sue someone like that? It's just a story for the laughs. Sorry for the badd English. And sorry to hear that Network54 had to go through one ****ty lawsuit that drained their money in lawyer fees. I hope it doesn't ever happen again in this sueborough. Y'all knoe wharra meen.

I've checked my yahoo email address for the first time in months because I don't use it often and when I do its usually all spam. Anyway, I just  found an email from you dated a few months ago leading to this post.  I don't  understand whats going on but can see its trouble of some sort and probably 'based' in the US.   I hope the problem has been resolved by now?

Paula

Yes! It has been resolved (and was by the time I posted it). Still, you would not believe how many people try and get at our (your!) personal information. We respect people's privacy. We'll be filing motions in court tomorrow, as a matter of fact, trying to protect some forum posters anonymity.

N54/Steven Roussey/My Weblog