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VERY OT (RANT)........... please feel free to delete if needed!

March 3 2011 at 1:05 PM
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  (Login time_watcher)
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from IP address 71.128.198.189

 
I was reading this morning about a couple in Nevada who were both un-employed and found it quite disturbing! I had NO idea that the un-employment rate was SO high there so I pursued a Google search just to see in comparison what other States un-employment rates were and I almost chocked on my coffee!!
This is what I found:

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/lauhsthl.htm

"THEY" (whoever the hell "they" are) say that things are getting better and that we are recovering........ with SO many people losing their jobs and their homes who can afford such luxuries as gas, food, rent, clothing, schooling and etc etc?? So just how is it that we are "recovering? Recovering from what??
Gas here in the States is almost at $4.00 a gallon and climbing higher each day...... cost of food is climbing higher as is almost everything else! How can workers earning minimum wage afford to pay for gas to get to work when gas is 1/2 of what they earn per hour!
I am SO freeking sick and tired of this crap it almost makes me..... a grown man want to cry!!
To keep this also somewhat on a "watch" topic I also cant help but notice the asking prices of watches climbing higher then ever before! C/mon folks........ unless you have pockets so deep that you cant reach bottom who in hell is going to pay $1800.00 for a Mint 6105-8100 these days???
The list goes on and I too could also go on more but thats it......... RANT over (for now)
MODS......... if you fell this topic is out of order.... go ahead and delete it!

 
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(Login theneilo1)
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Rene im actually with you on that one regardless..>>>

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March 3 2011, 1:53 PM 

Fuel is to the point of Ridiculous here and more than you pay also?

Theneilo uk

[linked image]

 
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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
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As Clinton would say, "I feel your pain"! The "mods" here do not like to delete

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March 3 2011, 3:17 PM 

except in very rare cases. This post, IMHO does not warrant deletion, editing, or locking.
Boomtown
Explode


    
This message has been edited by saykobro from IP address 173.168.72.216 on Mar 3, 2011 5:40 PM
This message has been edited by saykobro from IP address 173.168.72.216 on Mar 3, 2011 3:57 PM


 
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Michael n Texas
(Login monbla256)
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To put some things in perspective....

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March 3 2011, 5:12 PM 

.... we pay some of the LOWEST prices for gasoline here on the North American continent compared to our friends in Europe. Here's a link to some current fuel cost data :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_and_diesel_usage_and_pricing

As for un-employment, yep it's bad and it is going to get worse as we are seeing the return to the historical economic NORM of Boss/Owner and Worker/Slave. Remember, the US was founded by an elite landed gentry class of folks who set up a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, NOT a DEMOCRACY. It was set up during the Age of Enlightenment as it was called then, with the idea that certain classes of folks knew what was needed for all the rest and THEY would control things. The concept of the MIDDLE CLASS as we have known it here in the US was and still is a Historical Economic ABNORMALITY which came about AFTER the world wide Deppression on the late 20's with the help of a mustacheoed paper hanger from Austria. WITHOUT WWII, we would not have come out of it by normal means till around 1959 or so. The whole nature of WORK is changing and we better get used to it. There is no going back, this is the 21st century like it or not.
Onward thru the Fog happy.gif

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
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So Michael, in your opinion, what do you

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March 3 2011, 6:44 PM 

think the nature of work is changing to, or back to?
Do you really believe that people will give up the advancements
in the style of life that they have achieved over the last century?
I would like to see people demanding better things from our politicians.
We Canadians tend to be a little too much like sheep and take whatever
is rammed down our throats, but I'm used to seeing Americans raising
a rucus whenever they see injustice.
I'd like to see more people insisting on some manufacturing staying in
North America. I'd like to see Japan, and China opening their markets to our
automobiles, which they never really have. I'm not suggesting protectionism,
but a level playing field.
Also, I really think we should buy more products built in North America and vote with our wallets.
I personally will never again buy an automobile or any other big ticket item not built in North America unless it is something not made here.
If you don't allow our products to be sold in your
country, your companies should be sent packing, and not have our markets available to you.
We should insist our politicians who for the most part are bought and paid for by corporate interests, represent the people which is
what they should be doing in the first place, and ensure that there is a level
playing field in business, and if you're going to close up manufacturing in
North America to go to China or elswhere, then no more corporate tax breaks
for you. There are countless things that could be done to bring back economic
growth, but our politicians do absolutley nothing, allowing the emerging markets to
as the Donald would say..."eat out lunch".
From what I've heard from Donald Trump so far, I really hope he takes a run at the
White House, for all our sakes.




    
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 3, 2011 7:28 PM
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 3, 2011 7:08 PM
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 3, 2011 7:07 PM


 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
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I don't think the US or Canada for that matter are out of the loop so....

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March 3 2011, 7:25 PM 

.... to speak as far as their economies go. I don't think the type or level of product manufacturing as we've known it will return here to the US but we still will exercise some economic control of DISTRIBUTION and DEVELOPMENT wise for products and services in the future. The "new" economy we will have will be based on development of technology if we do not "cut our nose off to spite ourselves" concerning EDUCATION. I do think the economics of life will be more spread out among countries in the future and we will not have so few nations where ALL the wealth is based. And our dollar may no longer be the predominant currency in the world.The rest of the world is hungry and we opened Pandora's box and she's NOT going back in happy.gif It's going to be a different world my grandchildren will live in than what I grew up with. Onward thru the Fog happy.gif

 
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(Login time_watcher)
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TAXES..............

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March 3 2011, 7:39 PM 

I think we are forgetting about the taxes we pay!
EVERY damn thing you buy you pay a tax on it..... yeah yeah......I understand that we must all pay our "fair" share but damnit man........ the high taxes are killing us here!
Do you realize that you pay taxes on taxes? Take for an example...... lets say you are fortunate enough to get a refund on your taxes but lo and behold the very next year you must add your refund from last year into your income so you end up paying taxes on it again!!!
GAS......... do you realize that out of a gallon of gas that over 50% of that price per gallon is TAXES!!!!!!!
WTF Uncle Sam........ give us a break here!

Edited to add: My Wife paid over 17k in taxes last year.... that's more then a lot of people make income wise for an entire year!


    
This message has been edited by time_watcher from IP address 71.128.198.189 on Mar 3, 2011 7:40 PM


 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
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Yes we pay a good amount in taxes....

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March 3 2011, 8:41 PM 

.... but you need to take a look at what they pay in Europe tax wise, much, much MORE than we do. We DON'T know what taxes are compared to our European brothers. happy.gif

Onward thru the Fog happy.gif

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
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yes, taxes are a pain in the arse, but that is not the

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March 3 2011, 9:22 PM 

problem. It's that good paying manufacturing jobs have been shipped
to China and other low wage countries to increase profit margins.
This talk of tech jobs, and info tech, etc. is great, but you can't
rely entirely on these. Manufacturing is needed for a strong economy.

 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
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Get used to it, it aint coming back....

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March 3 2011, 9:34 PM 

.... the American firms that engage in it need LOW cost labor and will go wherever they need to to find it. The days of the manufacturing based middle class are OVER here in the US. Sorry, but it's the 21st century and we are being dragged into it kicking and screaming. We need to stop "crying in our beer" about all this and take the lead again in new directions as we did back in the 19th century with manufacturing. If we don't, we WILL be left behind.
JMHO

 
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(Login LES2900)
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TAXES .......................... >>>>

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March 3 2011, 11:42 PM 

.......>>> Most people are pissed because the high taxes we pay are not being used as they should be. In Ontario we are paying over 30% taxes on gas. All I hear in the radio is how people bitch about it... years ago they also told us that the Government won`t let the gas prices go above $1.00/Liter ... yeah RIGHT! Why would the government do ANYTHING about it? as the gas price go up, their 30% increases as well...

We are complainning for paying $1.21CAD/Liter of regular gas here but if you are planning to visit Europe any time soon, you`ll be in for a jaw dropping surprise. The price varies by country but it looks like most of Central Europe is priced at 1.50 - 1.60 and that`s in Euros! Converted to Canadian Dollars that`s $2.17

I`m not saying this to try to justify the 30% taxes on gas because I can`t. And once the gas price go up, soon after a lot of other thing will follow...exception from that is an increase in pay check... Its been over 3 years when I got a (crapy 2.5%) raise. But, I guess, I should be thankful I still have a job.


I don`t make things. I make things better !

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
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This is the problem, we've become complacent....

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March 4 2011, 4:35 PM 

some of us are too old to care...they've made their pile, they're pensions are good, they're OK so as long as things are good for a couple of more years who cares.
It's not taxes, or high fuel costs. Yes, these have a bearing on economic growth, but unless they are so high it's not such a huge issue. It's job....good paying, manufacturing jobs that we need.
You can't as a country be successful unless you mnake things. China knows this very well.
These high tech industry jobs people are always referring to...well that's great if you one of the few people it will employ to develop these new products and sytems, but again, the actual manufacture of these things will, if things continue as they are, go to China or some other emerging market. We have almost 400 million people in North America...how many people do you think high tech will employ?
Again it's this complacency that's gonna kill us. Michael's answer even implied that's it a foregone conclusion that we have lost most manufacturing to other countries and we just have to resign ourselves to having lost. We're still number 1 in the world in terms of economy and if people had some conviction and some balls we could turn things around. Problem is people are extremely short sighted. They would rather have the cheap goods right now even if it means that in 20 years there won't be any jobs here and they won't be able to afford any goods. Just one car produced here in N.A. supports countless jobs in all the periferal industries yet we still continue to buy imports in larger and larger numbers every year. The quality of N.A. cars is now at par with Japanese and Germans so really there's no excuse.
The Chinese have thousands of hackers offically sanctioned, that try and hack into our systems daily. They just hacked into the Canadian government systens last week. They have industrial spies working to steal anyting and everything, play with ther currency to give them an unfair advantage for their exports...etc. etc. it goes on and on. The Japamese and other countries flood our markets with their auto\s and goods, yet do not open their markets to our auto's......it makes me crazy to see that other countries (and rightfully so) are playing hardball, playing for keeps to become the top dog, and we who are/were number one are lazy, and have given up, and allowing ourselves a death from a thousand cuts.
I don't belive the can of worms has been opened and that it fait accompli.
We could get tough with our politicians and force them to get tough with other countries, we could buy more locally produced goods even though they may cost a little more.
Lots of things which could turn things around but it seems no one has any uts anymore.
Maybbe we have all become too big and fat and lazy and if we don't even fight for what we had maybbe we deserve to lose it.


    
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 4, 2011 4:40 PM
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 4, 2011 4:38 PM


 
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(Login LES2900)
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Agree .......................................... >>>>

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March 4 2011, 6:50 PM 

........... >>> with a lot a things you said.
The NA car manufacturing has a lot to prove to its own people/customers. The quality of the cars made in North America, for decades, was very low - at best. Looking back only 10-15 years, the N.A cars were bigger, comfortable and cheapper. But where they got beaten up by import cars was in quality and reliability. Yes, it was cheapper to maintain a N.A. car since the parts/labour were cheapper too but they had to be serviced more often than the import. It is true, for the same amout of $$ you got much "more" N.A made car but "more" didn`t come with "better".... And as we all know, ultimately that`s what dragged down the Big 3. They started making changes and that`s good. But by then, they lost a lot a customers. Its been years since the last time I even looked at the GM or Chevy, altho I like them. They didn`t offer anything new, anything competitive. But like I said - that has changed in the past 6-8 months and that`s realy good. They are finaly listening to the people.

As far as groceries goes, my wife refuses to by anything that`s not coming from Ontario farms. She`ll compromise with "Product of US" but she`ll buy notihng "Made in Mexico" or "China". On numerous ocassions she gets fed up while shopping because all labels read "Mexico" or "China". One time she ended up calling the store manager and and giving him a "lecture" about supporting the Ontario farms.

I don`t make things. I make things better !

 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
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70.70.239.50

Les...that is an excellent start!

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March 4 2011, 8:56 PM 

My wife is trying to work to the '100 mile diet' plan.

Basically, it means only buying products that are locally produced or manufactured within 100 miles of where you live.
Obviously this doesn't include cars(where I live) but we can nearly buy everything we eat within the 100 mile limit and there are also many other local products we can take advantage of without resorting to imports or import prices.

All you have to do is look a few km beyond Walmart or the other big box store and you can buy better products as well as support the local economy! happy.gif
I know that you folks in Ontario have many more local resources than I do...we used to take advantage of them all the time when we lived there happy.gif

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(Login Ancre-Steam)
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George...if you're serious; I'm with you!

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March 4 2011, 8:48 PM 

Do you have the will and energy to get into politics? I don't know if I do but you've seen how tenacious I can be when an issue gets my attention wink.gif

Maybe you and I and a couple of other Canadian forum folks could form a new party and make a difference!
Just need to find a little funding I guess...we only need someone with good fund raising savoir faire happy.gif

Something to think about...........

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[linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image] [linked image]

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
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yeah, I've often thought about it, but it's a really dirty business.

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March 4 2011, 10:53 PM 

who knows, if I get fed up enough.....

 
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Jeje
(Login Jeje3325)
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rant...

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March 3 2011, 8:02 PM 

Yeah, I'm in Canada and we have gas at $1,33 today sad.gif

Do I like paying taxes Of course not.
I still feel very fortunate to live here, there is many many places on this planet where life is.. precarious to say the least. I don't say that things could not be better a lot a lot better but they could also be much worse.

Its still painful be be taxed like we are in Quebec

*Never a waste of time to look at a watch*

 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
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Gas here in N.Texas is at ....

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March 3 2011, 8:43 PM 

... $3.49.99 US today. That's what I payed at the pump today whenI filled up happy.gif

 
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(Login time_watcher)
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Gas today here in California was................

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March 3 2011, 9:15 PM 

$3.89 for the reg. cheap stuff! It has been rising at a steady rate of .04 cents per day!

 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
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Put your speculative $s in gas and oil futures....

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March 3 2011, 9:36 PM 

.... and prescription drugs happy.gif

 
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(Login sharkfinDave)
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dont get me start with Pharmaceutical co.

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March 3 2011, 9:42 PM 

the real drug pushers.

They've got the gov'ts in control, everyone is on the payroll with oil/pharma execs.
Doctors push all their candy to the population.

 
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(Login time_watcher)
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Re: dont get me start with Pharmaceutical co.

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March 3 2011, 9:54 PM 

DONT even get me started about the freeked up health care situation here either......... who in the hell can afford to pay WELL over $700.00 a month for health insurance????
A friend of mine recently had her health insurance rates raised by 17% making her monthly payments over $917.00 a month for full coverage! Good god man..... I know a lot of people who dont even make $900.00 a month!

 
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(Login sharkfinDave)
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very true

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March 3 2011, 10:56 PM 

health care and education is on the low end of priority for our gov'ts. sad.gif

 
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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
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Before I just recently got on Medicare, I was paying $1100 per month just for me and $5000

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March 3 2011, 11:17 PM 

copay per year on my Health Savings Account! I went 2 years without paying out the whole $5000 until they discovered that I had that darn Myeloma and then they saw $ signs! Every year I paid out the $5000 + the monthly cost from 60 to 65 which went from $800 to $1100 at 64! I also take two expensive prescription drugs. When I got rid of that nut to crack I could afford to retire. Plus my income in 2010 was 1/3 of my income in 2007! I hear you guys...believe me!

Boomtown
Explode

 
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sharkfin Dave
(Login sharkfinDave)
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I hate this high petrol rates but

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March 3 2011, 9:39 PM 

its even worse over in Europe and places like S.America.
Mucho expensive.

Damn greedy oil companies and the greedy taxman. sad.gif

I want a horse! Why can't we go back to the cowboy days. lol.

 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
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You'll have to carry a gun if you want to do that :<(

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March 3 2011, 10:07 PM 

then every yuppie on a pinto will be reining up beside you and challenging you to a gun fight wink.gif

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(Login sharkfinDave)
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then call me John Wayne. lol. nt

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March 3 2011, 10:56 PM 


 
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(Login LES2900)
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By "Pinto" ............................... >>>>

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March 3 2011, 11:03 PM 

.......>>> you didn`t mean Ford Pinto...

[linked image]

I don`t make things. I make things better !

 
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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
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I also bought gas today for my wife's Suzi SX4 and paid $3.499, but it

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March 3 2011, 11:22 PM 

is a gas sipping 2.0 liter 4 cyl. with a small 12 gallon tank and it only took 9 gallons. May have to buy a Prius soon.

Boomtown
Explode

 
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(Login LES2900)
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How about .........................................>>>>

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March 4 2011, 6:55 PM 

............. >>> buying a Chevy Volt?? Just in support of the North American economy .....

I don`t make things. I make things better !

 
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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
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I don't have a spare $42,000! American cars are over priced and they are not 100% made in

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March 4 2011, 9:12 PM 

the USA. Made in: - assembled in Mexico, transmission China, and engine Brazil. happy.gif

Boomtown
Explode

 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
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70.70.239.50

I think you'll find that most cars, today, are 'hybrids'...

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March 4 2011, 9:18 PM 

ie; made from parts and systems from several countries :-O

Check out cars like Toyota Corolla...where are they made(for North American consumption) and what is the actual Japanese content?

You might be surprised wink.gif

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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
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A bit long post, but well worth reading. It will open your eyes to what is an American

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March 4 2011, 11:26 PM 

car.

Made in America

chragerfront1.jpg

Workers allow only Ford vehicles into the parking lot. A group of Big Three retirees get together and spend their pensions on a website dedicated to proving what it means to be American made. A foreign company publishes billboards that tout its decades-long commitment to America, and even enter into NASCAR racing's premiere circuit, the Nextel Cup.

And so -- the argument continues.
Both sides are right – and wrong. Despite massive cuts, GM and Ford employ more people than Toyota and Honda, and still make more cars here, on US soil. The most American car is still a Ford, followed by a Chevy, and the profit still stays here at home. The names on the cars trace back a hundred years or more, and symbolize the American Ideal for generations of people: a good job, doing something worthwhile, building something that lasts, and leaving a legacy in sheet metal, glass and rivets.

So they're right. But they're also wrong, because today these same companies do business in a much different way. Faced with fierce competition and the globalization of the automotive industry, Ford and General Motors have looked outside our borders for cheaper parts and assembly; as the cost of building a car has gone up and the responsibility of pensions and pay has weighed down, US automakers have been getting decidedly less American, and the national distinction of their vehicles considerably more blurry. At the same time, foreign automakers have invested here; the likes of Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and others have put down stakes and have built their own American legacy over the span of 30 years. Now, generations of Americans look at these companies as the providers of the American Ideal. While traditional US automakers have been closing plants and moving production, foreign automakers have busied themselves with opening new plants, design shops and parts centers, employing people and rejuvenating local economies. Today, their cars are just as American as any other.

As a result, it's hard to tell what really an American-made car is, and perhaps even why it matters. Car buyers who wish to buy American have a confusing maze of information to navigate: there's the location of the assembly plant, the percentage of parts content, the ideal of that name on the grille, and, finally, where the pocket is that will take the profit and re-invest it into future cars and products. Each element weighs differently to each person, to be sure, so we have attempted to create a comprehensive guide to understanding what it is that makes a car an American car. Because it's jobs and investment that matter most, we rank the assembly and parts makeup of a vehicle as most important, followed by the location of the corporate parent and, finally, the name of the brand.

Choosing the right car is difficult, and it's enough for buyers to find a car that meets their daily needs. If, however, you also want to make a statement with your purchase, toss aside the rhetoric of the car companies and consider one question: what's the most important thing about driving and owning an American made car? We think its jobs and investment. What about you?

The US Government defines domestic vehicles in two basic ways: where they're assembled and the percentage of parts content comes from an American source. We add the final two criteria to clear the air on confusing issues regarding ownership. For example, you may think that the Dodge Ram is an American vehicle, but it's really not: Because Dodge is owned by a German company, DaimlerChrysler, and because its parts content does not reach the US threshold of 75 percent, it's actually an import. We also recognize the value of a brand, and the cultural importance they play in the lives of Americans. For example, Ford is more than just a car company; it's a family with a historic legacy that covers assembly line production and automobiles. Regardless of recent struggles, the name and brand of Ford, Chevrolet, Cadillac or others resonates with people as a part of their lives. The two main criteria, however, can serve a valuable role in determining what constitutes an American vehicle:

Assembly Plants: Where the car is put together. This creates thousands of jobs for Americans, stimulates local communities, and lays down the foundation on which people will raise families and live their lives. Recently opened plants include the Nissan plant in Canton, Mississippi, and a Toyota truck plant outside San Antonio, Texas. Inside, automotive assembly plants are sprawling creations filled with thousands of robotics, people and cars. There's a car line that weaves from room to room, constantly carrying vehicles in various stages of manufacture, being assembled by hundreds of people at various posts along the line. Coming plants include a Kia plant in Georgia and a Honda plant in Indiana. On the other side of the aisle, Ford recently raised eyebrows over the announcement that the company would be opening a plant in Mexico, while closing plants here. Ford has denied that plans are in place for a new Mexican automotive plant.

Parts and Content: So what if that car was put together here, how much of it is American? Just like assembly plants, a car that's made up of US-sourced parts helps in job creation. Consider the amount of work and investment that goes into, say an engine plant, and you get the picture. Thanks to the Government, we have a way of gauging that content, though its usefulness is a bit questionable. Passed into law in the early nineties, the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) was an attempt to regulate what was called “Made in the USA,” by requiring that 75 percent of the parts content be from the US or Canada. That's one of the many curious things about it: why Canada? Probably because, with plants open and operating up north, domestic automakers wanted to get credit for the parts built there, and perhaps felt that, due to the proximity of Ontario, Canada, to Detroit, Michigan, the definition should be grouped. Another quirk of the AALA is the way it defines its parts content percentage: it's by value, which, according to foreign automakers, penalizes them. If the value of one part of a transmission is more than the rest, such as the gear set, and that's imported, then the percentage of “Made in the USA” content goes down – even though the rest of the transmission is built in the US. Even according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the effectiveness of the AALA is questionable. Today, in fact, the AALA may actually do the opposite of its intent, as foreign automakers boost their commitments in the US, and domestic automakers look elsewhere for cheaper parts and labor. According to CSM Worldwide, there has been a steady growth of foreign parts production since 1997, the year before AALA was enacted, while at the same time, domestic automakers have just as steadily decreased their US parts production.

So you want to buy the most American car on the road. Welcome, then, my friend, to the Ford Econoline, which has a whopping 95 percent of its parts content from here (or Canada).

Not interested? Then try the Ford Escape (not the hybrid version) and its brother the Mercury Mariner, or a Chevrolet Silverado. If you're looking for something a little more up town, get yourself a Cadillac DTS luxury sedan. These are just a few of the vehicles that meet our criteria for All-American, in order of what's most important to what's least important:

Assembly: Assembly plants create thousands of American jobs, and millions of dollars are invested in the local economy.
Parts/Content: Parts centers create hundreds of jobs, and community investment is significant.
Company headquarters: Where the bottom line profit goes
Name: Given our image-conscious society, some feel it's appropriate to represent their American-ness.

For minivan shoppers, the Toyota Sienna is as All-American as it gets, despite its Japanese roots: the Sienna is assembled in the US, and 83 percent of its parts come from US or Canada. The next closest minivan is the Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan or Chrysler Town and Country: the popular “Stow and Go” models are built in Canada, they have a slightly smaller parts percentage, and headquarters is in Germany. For non-luxury sedan shoppers, they can start with the Ford Five Hundred, Chevrolet Malibu, or the Toyota Camry. All are built here, with 80 percent US/Canada parts, but the Camry sends at least some of its profit to Tokyo. Given fuel prices and the proven quality of the Camry, it would seem that smart shoppers would discount the profit/name penalty, and be glad that the sedan they're buying is made and marketed here in the US. Small car searchers with an All-American mandate can choose between the Chevrolet Cobalt and the Toyota Corolla (75 percent). If you think that a tiny percentage difference is a bit silly, add the Honda Civic to your list, at 70 percent.

US-Assembled Cars Percent US/Canada content Name Corporate Profits
Ford Econoline 95% USA USA
Lincoln LS (production ended April 2006) 90% USA USA
Ford Escape 90% USA USA
Mercury Mariner 90% USA USA
Ford Ranger 90% USA USA
Cadillac DTS 90% USA USA
Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra 90% USA USA
Mazda Tribute (Ford) 90% JAPAN JAPAN
Mazda B-Series (Ford) 90% JAPAN JAPAN
Lincoln Town Car 85% USA USA
Mercury Mountaineer 85% USA USA
Ford F-Series 85% USA USA
Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon, 85% USA USA
Buick Rainer, GMC Envoy, Chevrolet TrailBlazer 85% USA USA
Isuzu Ascender (GM) 85% JAPAN JAPAN
Dodge Viper 85% USA GERMANY
Isuzu i-Series (GM) 85% JAPAN JAPAN
Toyota Sienna 85% JAPAN JAPAN
Dodge Grand Caravan – SWB 83% USA GERMANY
Chrysler Town & Country – SWB 82% USA GERMANY
Chrysler Sebring convertible 82% USA GERMANY
Jeep Wrangler 82% USA GERMANY
Ford Five Hundred 80% USA USA
Ford Expedition 80% USA USA
Ford Explorer 80% USA USA
Ford Freestyle 80% USA USA
Lincoln Mark LT 80% USA USA
Cadillac CTS 80% USA USA
Pontiac Solstice 80% USA USA
Chevrolet Corvette, Cadillac XLR 80% USA USA
Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6 80% USA USA
Cadillac SRX 80% USA USA
Dodge Caravan – SWB 80% USA GERMANY
Toyota Camry 80% JAPAN JAPAN
Toyota Tundra 80% JAPAN JAPAN
Dodge Durango 79% USA GERMANY
Dodge Stratus 78% USA GERMANY
Mitsubishi Raider (Dodge) 78% JAPAN JAPAN
Dodge Dakota 77% USA GERMANY
Chrysler Sebring 77% USA GERMANY
Jeep Commander 76% USA GERMANY
Mercury Montego 75% USA USA
Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, Saturn Relay 75% USA USA
Chevrolet Cobalt 75% USA USA
Honda Ridgeline 75% JAPAN JAPAN
Honda Pilot 75% JAPAN JAPAN
Toyota Avalon 75% JAPAN JAPAN
Toyota Corolla 75% JAPAN JAPAN

06_Honda_Accord_Sedan_11.jpg

Poor Honda.
According to the US government, all they need is a measly five percent more to get into the All-American club. They fall short, even though the company has invested millions of dollars in building assembly plants and parts centers across the nation – never mind that they build some of the most popular cars on the road. Given the combination of US and Canada parts, it seems to be a definition designed to keep “Made in the USA” for USA brands. That's changing, and fast: according to NHTSA and CSM Worldwide, import automakers are increasingly bringing their parts with them when they open up new assembly plants. The result is that in the near future, vehicles such as the Honda Accord, Civic, CR-V, Element and others will begin to qualify for that oh-so cherished American Automobile Label Act (AALA) badge.

As if that would boost sales. Ironically, some of the more famous “American” cars are now getting caught in the AALA net. DaimlerChrysler – a German company that owns Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep – has such red white and blue stalwarts like the Dodge Ram or the Jeep Grand Cherokee on the “near miss” list. Not to mention such iconic American rides as the Ford Mustang, which is made of just 60 percent US/Canadian content. So, for all you import buyers out there, the next time you chat up your Yankee-doodle neighbor with the Dodge Ram, kindly point out that, according to NHTSA, your built-in-the-US import is more American than that All-American Ram grille. Or even that Impala bowtie.

MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Jeep Liberty USA 74% IMPORT
Dodge Ram USA 74% IMPORT
Jeep Grand Cherokee USA 73% IMPORT
Lincoln Navigator USA 70% IMPORT
Dodge Caliber USA 70% IMPORT
Toyota Tacoma USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT
Chevy Impala CANADA 92% IMPORT

2007_Toyota_Camry_SE_exfrpass34.jpg

Analysts call them “New Domestics,” a clever tag used to describe automakers that have relocated much of their operations to North America…but come from somewhere else. Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai are perfect examples of automakers that are building research and development centers, assembly plants, engine plants, transmission plants and other parts houses across the nation, employing workers and rejuvenating local economies.

Get used to it.
As these automakers transition more toward US locations, they are quickly becoming as domestic as the “old domestics.” According to CSM Worldwide, in fact, parts sourcing for General Motors has decreased over 11 percent between 1997 and 2005, down to 79.9 percent. Toyota, meanwhile, has increased their parts volume from the US/Canada tandem to 68.9 percent, up from 52 percent. Honda upped its commitment in the same time period by almost nine percent, according to CSM, and Ford decreased their commitment by 3 percent. It's a shift that will keep shifting, as these “New Domestics” continue to bring parts manufacturing to the US and the “Old Domestics” shift to less expensive parts suppliers overseas. One day soon, in fact, the government's American Automobile Labeling Act will show just how outdated it is, when the vehicles with the most US/Canada content will have names such as Camry, Accord, Civic and Sienna. The trend begs a question: with only a 10 percent difference in the amount of parts produced here in 2005, with thriving plants across the nation and with plans to funnel more investment into the US, just how much more American is GM, compared to Toyota?

MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Toyota Sienna USA 85% DOMESTIC
Toyota Camry USA 80% DOMESTIC
Toyota Tundra USA 80% DOMESTIC
Honda Ridgeline USA 75% DOMESTIC
Honda Pilot USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Avalon USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Corolla USA 75% DOMESTIC
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT

2006_Ford_F150_barn.jpg

Despite the ruckus about saving jobs and buying American products, when it comes to the most popular vehicles for sale in the United States car shoppers seem to care more about what it is than where it's from. According to the Automotive News, for example, that extra five percent of US/Canadian content missing from the Accord or the Civic seem unimportant, as they remain among the most popular cars in the nation. And it's unlikely that folks would stop buying the F-150 truck if Ford decided to get parts from another country.

At least until the quality went down.
Indeed, quality, style and other on-the-street considerations seem much more important to car shoppers, even with all the clacking tongues on television. In fact, according to a follow-up report commissioned in 2001, NHTSA concluded that 75 percent of car buyers surveyed were not aware of the label. The study surveyed 646 people who had bought or leased new vehicles during the past 6 months, or were planning to do so within 3 months, and found that only 2 percent were “moderately or strongly influenced by the label because it identified the vehicle's country of assembly.”

Sure seems as though a good car – or a good price – trumps where the parts come from, who gets the profit or what the name on the grille represents.

MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Ford F-Series USA 85% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Silverado USA 90% DOMESTIC
Toyota Camry USA 80% DOMESTIC
Dodge Ram USA 74% IMPORT
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Chevrolet Impala CANADA 92% IMPORT
Dodge Grand Caravan – SWB USA 83% DOMESTIC
Nissan Altima USA 65% IMPORT
Chevrolet Cobalt USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Corolla USA 75% DOMESTIC
GMC Sierra USA 90% DOMESTIC
Ford Focus USA 60% IMPORT
Ford Explorer USA 80% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Malibu USA 80% DOMESTIC
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT
Ford Mustang USA 60% IMPORT
Toyota Tacoma USA 70% IMPORT
Chevrolet TrailBlazer USA 85% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Tahoe USA 67% IMPORT

Photos courtesy of the automakers

Article Source: by Brian Chee @ AutoByTel




Boomtown
Explode

 
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Chascomm
(Login Chascomm_)
Chinese Watch Guru
151.130.37.18

$4/gallon = $1.06/litre...

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March 3 2011, 11:01 PM 

It's been decades since I paid so little for petrol here in Australia. I understand food and clothing is also much cheaper in the US than here. I guess domestic energy requirements would be much higher in the colder parts of the country so that may even things out. And we have unemployment benefits, pensions and public health provision. So it's hard to make direct comparisons.

We've already lost most of our manufacturing industry years ago to Japan, Korea, Indonesia, etc so there's less of a sense of suddenly being under threat from China. Basically we Australians do not expect everything to be made here so we're not surprised to find imported items. 'They' are not taking our jobs because the jobs are long gone. Unfortunately we've been pushed back to the 19th century colonial pattern whereby we export raw materials and import the finished product. If North America stopped buying Chinese goods, we'd be stuffed.

 
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(Login anzac1957)
Orient Enabler
203.97.104.27

In New Zealand petrol/gas is now at over NZ$ 2.00 per litre

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March 3 2011, 11:11 PM 

which at todays exchange rate is US$ 1.47 per litre and that isn't taking into consideration the lower average wage here in New Zealand..

We pay GST on the petrol but that is actually on the petrol plus the excise tax.. so we are paying a tax on a tax..

But having said that, I would still live here in preference to anywhere else I have travelled..

http://anzacsorientwatchspot.blogspot.com/

[linked image]
Tony Lewis
New Zealand

 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
AWF Approved Poster
70.247.172.125

Everything has to be kept in perspective....

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March 3 2011, 11:38 PM 

.... back in 1967 when I graduated from High School, minimum wage was $1.40/hr and I paid $.30/gal for gas for my 1960 Triumph Bonnivlle motorcycle I rode. We now are at $7.25/hr with gas starting to touch $4.00/gal. As Albert said, it's all "relative" Onward thru the Fog happy.gif

 
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(Login anzac1957)
Orient Enabler
203.97.104.27

Now I get it.. So that is what Einstein was on about with his theory of relativity!! :>)

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March 3 2011, 11:45 PM 

Actually milk is more expensive than petrol per litre and it is better for you too..

http://anzacsorientwatchspot.blogspot.com/

[linked image]
Tony Lewis
New Zealand

 
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bladedogg
(Login bladedoggg)
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72.130.227.175

sad

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March 4 2011, 2:58 AM 

Seriously sad news for sure!

 
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Catalin
(Login xdesk)
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78.97.24.71

What amazes me is that people are surprised at that ...

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March 4 2011, 9:03 AM 

The Bush deficits together with the 'trickle-down' republican policy could ONLY lead to the current type of results - and I really don't see any way up with the GOP majority (plus the new 'teabaggers') being just focused on tax-cuts for billionaires! (which generally seem to be a political strategy to make things as worse as possible - regardless of the state of the country - in order to later blame it all on Obama).

And of course on top of that you have the huge unsolved financial mess on one side, increasing political corruption on the other and a constant erosion of rights - sometimes all visible at the same time as in Wisconsin.

And it all boils down to lack of interest from the 'regular voter' and of course a huge propaganda machine (especially Fox - which lately isn't even trying - a few days ago they presented some violent images as coming from Wisconsin (trying to discredit the unions by painting them as violent) - but the images did have real palm trees in the background - and even I know those don't quite grow there happy.gif

 
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(Login Rseiko)
216.14.145.29

What?...

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March 4 2011, 2:39 PM 

"The Bush deficits together with the 'trickle-down' republican
policy could ONLY lead to the current type of results."

I give Bush SOME of the blame, but the dems had two years to
work on the problem, and their solution was to spend trillions
of dollars. That's not working out very well.

"the new 'teabaggers'"

Our one hope is that the Tea Party movement has shown that the will
of the people should be considered when someone is elected to office.

TELL ME WHERE YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT WANTS?

• Limited federal government
• Individual freedoms
• Personal responsibility
• Free markets
• Returning political power to the states and the people

It sounds like you would agree with the Tea Party...

"huge unsolved financial mess on one side, increasing political
corruption on the other and a constant erosion of rights."

And then there's this...

"a huge propaganda machine (especially Fox - which lately isn't even
trying - a few days ago they presented some violent images as coming
from Wisconsin (trying to discredit the unions by painting them as violent)"

If you think that ALL media doesn't have bias, then you're fooling yourself.
The images you're refering to were addressed by Bill O'Reilly last night.
Anything you see from Colbert and Stewart must be heavily questioned.

I watched the show, here's a clip...

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html#/v/4566435/stephen-colbert-pinhead-or-patriot/?playlist_id=87275

I'm not going to try and defend Fox News, but they are blowing the other
news agencies away, BECAUSE they offer opposing views. I for sure can't
watch MSNBC, to start with their "guest view points" always reflect that
of the host. Plus, they are usually nothing more than newspaper columnists.
CNN is just flat. They appear defeated and angry because they are no longer
the place for news. The three network news groups have little to offer, except
on the weekends when the two parties make their rounds to spew their talking points.

It's best to discover reality by doing your own investigation. Then when you
share this with others, you don't sound like the machine you're complaining about.

Making a statement like...

"'teabaggers' being just focused on tax-cuts for billionaires!"

Is not only NOT TRUE, but it makes everything else you say, QUESTIONABLE.

We should LISTEN to both sides of the arguement, then take a stand on FACTS.

I try to watch and read most of the major news organizations. What I find to
be true, they all have some slant, so I what I look for is debate by knowledgable guests.

Like it or not, Fox has the best debates. Hence...they're number 1!

Lastly, I'm not sure what you mean by a 'regular voter', but...
I do agree that there is way to many Americans that are not engaged in the process.

TRUTH will set us free. happy.gif


[linked image]

RICK

 
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Catalin
(Login xdesk)
AWF Approved Poster
78.97.24.71

That is only smoke and mirrors ...

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March 4 2011, 4:02 PM 

The Tea Party (just like Bush) has a very consistent tendency of saying something in order to get elected and than doing just the opposite - they are already on record voting in proportion of 65% (just like the GOP, and starting with their 'star' Michelle Bachmann) for the extension of the Patriot Act, and they continue to be a strong promoter of the 'trickle-down economics' with the tax-cuts for the billionaires and corporations like Bank of America - which most people believe pay a lot of taxes when actually they often pay zero -http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/03/tim-pawlenty-bank-of-america_n_830827.html

The theory that you can get rid of the deficit without increasing taxes and without stopping the wars (by placing more burden just on the middle and the lower classes) is only an extension of the Bush economic policy - and the outcome is just as predictable!

 
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(Login time_watcher)
AWF Approved Poster
71.128.198.189

If I offend........... sorry but...................

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March 4 2011, 5:24 PM 

I absolutely HATE the fact that almost everything we own these days is made in CHINA or some other Asian country!!!
Our very own government let it happen and continues to let it happen by out sourcing products and jobs when there are thousands of people here w/o jobs! Part of the problem we brought on ourselves is by allowing UNIONS to get so big and powerful! Union wages have gotten SO high that its no wonder things are made in China where they can be made for a fraction of the cost! Its a no win situation!
The other night on the news they did a brief report on what exactly in your home was made in China vs what was made in the USA............ when they finished clearing out this particular home there was virtually nothing left in it...... not a single item was US made!!! Kinda scary!!
A few weeks ago I was in the market for a moving cart/dolly and looked thru the local flea market for one as I knew I'd be able to find one cheap...... yeah..... I found one cheap allright........$10.00 made in VIETNAM!!!! I passed!
DONT even get me started about Vietnam or India either as I wont be silent!

 
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(Login justsellbrgs)
AWF Approved Poster
184.59.172.142

rene......jack daniels and marlboros are made in the US...nt

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March 4 2011, 6:39 PM 

nt

 
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(Login LES2900)
AWF Approved Poster
64.231.50.137

I wouldn`t be surprised ................................>>>>

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March 4 2011, 6:53 PM 

....... IF it would be "Bottled in China" or the "Printed in China" ....

I don`t make things. I make things better !

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
Founding Member
99.239.136.40

it's infuriating.....

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March 4 2011, 6:56 PM 

if we continue on this path the Asian countries will be our masters.
Our fault....don't think it's all the Unions fault.
Big business went overseas for lower wages higher profits, and our corrupt,
lazy, ignorant politicians allowed it, and worst of all, we tolerated it so
we could have cheap crap.....and crap it is.
It's a shame, the once powerful west, destined to have a disgraceful death by a thousand cuts.

 
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(Login AJCanada)
Archer Watches
70.54.126.212

I won't get involved in this thread.....

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March 6 2011, 4:18 PM 

other than to say I found this funny considering it was posted on the Asian Watch Forum! wink.gif

"I absolutely HATE the fact that almost everything we own these days is made in CHINA or some other Asian country!!!"

Thanks for the chuckle. happy.gif

Cheers, Al

 
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(Login time_watcher)
AWF Approved Poster
71.128.198.189

Re: I won't get involved in this thread.....

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March 6 2011, 4:25 PM 

I fail to see what's funny about it....... IF you lived in the US you would be singing a different tune!
1000s of American jobs are being taken away from us by the Asian countries! I see NO humor or chuckles in that whatsoever!!!

 
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(Login LES2900)
AWF Approved Poster
64.231.50.137

Rene .......................................... >>>>

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March 6 2011, 4:50 PM 

.......... >>> you are missing the point here. Archer didn`t make a "political" statement... He was just pointing out that WE - the AWF forum members - are complaining about loss of jobs to Asian Countries - China in particular. And ALL this complains are posted on a forum that is somewhat promoting/incuraging at least one thing made in China - watches.

I don`t make things. I make things better !

 
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(Login AJCanada)
Archer Watches
70.54.126.212

Funny in an ironic way...

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March 6 2011, 7:27 PM 

Since this is an Asian watch forum after all.

Cheers, Al

 
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(Login time_watcher)
AWF Approved Poster
71.128.198.189

Re: Funny in an ironic way...

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March 6 2011, 7:58 PM 

My apologies........ I mis-interpreted it! wink.gif

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
Founding Member
99.239.136.40

It is ironic eh? I'm only on this forum because of the people

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March 6 2011, 6:50 PM 

To be honest, this forum's focus isn't even really asain watches.
This thread does look funny on this forum though:)

 
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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
Founding Member
173.168.72.216

George, IYHO, what is the focus of this forum. I think a shared hobby and friendship and

No score for this post
March 6 2011, 11:17 PM 

fun. Which results in a 'safe' feeling when truly expressing one's self. What say you? BTW, I am wearing Chinese tonight. Whatever the politics and 'rants', I like them very much. In this economy, I need a bargain. happy.gif

050

Boomtown
Explode
boomtown7.jpg


 
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GeorgeRado
(Login GeorgeRado)
Founding Member
99.239.136.40

Yup, you've summed it up nicely....a good group of people

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March 7 2011, 7:50 PM 

who share an interest in watches, and their thoughts
and opinions on a wide range of topics.


    
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 7, 2011 7:50 PM


 
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(Login Poseidon-Jim)
Known Troll And Troublemaker. Banned from AWF, SCWF, MWF, Seikoholics and now WUS
72.224.15.116

Re: It is ironic eh? I'm only on this forum because of the people

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March 7 2011, 7:16 PM 

as Peter's and others thoughts on the matter and issues, and that's not Ironic for me at all.

lol,

Jim


 
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(Login Rseiko)
216.14.145.29

Right...

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March 4 2011, 5:24 PM 

Remember this?...

President signs Patriot Act provision extension
By Bridget Johnson - 02/27/10 05:35 PM ET

President Barack Obama signed into law Saturday a one-year extension
of several surveillance provisions included in the Patriot Act.

The House approved the bill 315-97 on Thursday,
a day after the extension passed the Senate.

The provisions, including roving wiretaps, records access and tracking
terror suspects not affiliated with any group, were set to expire on
Sunday. Democrats opposing the extension were unable to add desired
civil-liberties protections.

The Patriot Act was first passed by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001,
attacks as a defense mechanism against terrorists.


Does this happen?... "saying something in order to get elected" YES!


Obama didn't "SAY SOMETHING" to get elected?

What about closing Guantanamo? That was to be his first bit of business.

Putting the health care bill debate on C-Span was another one?

“These negotiations will be on C-SPAN, and so the public will be part
of the conversation and will see the decisions that are being made.”
January 20, 2008, and another seven times.


I can go on, but you will continue to move to something else.

You have plenty to digest from my first post.

I can tell you are only going to believe what you see or read from the LEFT.

But the FACT is... the truth LIES somewhere in the MIDDLE. happy.gif



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RICK

 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
Founding Member
70.70.239.50

Rick...truer words have never been spoken...

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March 4 2011, 9:15 PM 

"But the FACT is... the truth LIES somewhere in the MIDDLE."

I am one of those whose life and occupation has been drastically altered. My livelyhood and career of 35+ years was sold to the lowest bidder; ie China, India, Bulgaria, name a country that does outsourcing foe a lot less than I can work for.

I don't hold a grudge or begrudge any of those countries or their people for having gotten the jobs I used to do. I hold the crooked CEOs, slimey accountants and other ner-do-wells that run the companies I used to work for. They, and they alone, are responsible for what has happened to manufacturing and to a large degree, even design and engineering in our countries sad.gif

It is not the fault of the Chinese, the Indians or any other country that our jobs were sold to them. It is not the fault of the workers(here); that their jobs were sold to the lowest bidders.
The blame(if any can really be placed); lies with those who sought to profit in the short term(the CEOs, accountants, etc.) and the politicians who were also short-sighted.

The smart amongst us will seriously consider taking language lessons and fighting back, but on their terms!
I highly recommend Mandarin as a language that would benefit anyone working at a job or career that can be outsourced happy.gif

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(Login Rseiko)
216.14.145.29

We agree!?...

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March 5 2011, 11:26 AM 


I'm going to leave it at that Peter! happy.gif

I think we've both lived long enough to realize the truth
IS FOUND IN THE MIDDLE when it comes to politics, business,
and the media, as well as many other geopolitical matters.




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RICK

 
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Catalin
(Login xdesk)
AWF Approved Poster
78.97.24.71

That is missing a few very relevant points ...

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March 5 2011, 3:47 AM 

> President signs Patriot Act provision extension
> By Bridget Johnson - 02/27/10 05:35 PM ET

> President Barack Obama signed into law Saturday a one-year extension
> of several surveillance provisions included in the Patriot Act.

> The House approved the bill 315-97 on Thursday,
> a day after the extension passed the Senate.


1) the Patriot Act is directly giving extra power to the executive branch, and in the current world context you can not honestly expect the executive branch to refuse it - it is the DUTY of the OTHER two branches to limit that power-grab!

2) note that small part above saying 315-77 ? that was meaning that any veto from Obama would have been just a huge waste of time - if even foreigners know that it is hard to convince anybody of the honesty of your argument;

3) we were also talking about this-year extension, the one which was voted by 65% of GOP and Tea; the one from previous year was voted like 70-80% by GOP but is less relevant to the discussion around the Tea Party.

Now if you would mention Ron Paul and not the Tea Party I might be less suspicious - the guy is the only real libertarian in professional politics - but please note that even if many people think that he is part of Tea Party - he is NOT - and the Tea Party was taken over by the big corporate interests and the Koch brothers and are now just trying to benefit from the capital in honesty and trust that Ron Paul created for the real libertarian movement. (of course I strongly disagree with his point of view on child labor, racism and general regulation, but unlike the Tea Party which campaigns for one thing and then is on record voting for another, Ron Paul was quite honest and consistent).

And since we are on the topic of civil liberties - the ONLY senator to vote against the ORIGINAL Patriot Act was Feingold - who lost his seat in 2010 in spite of being a huge and well-known advocate of civil liberties and campaign finance reform - so I would say that the average American voter does not quite give a **** on the subject sad.gif

 
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(Login Rseiko)
216.14.145.29

LOL!...

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March 5 2011, 11:18 AM 


As I said...



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RICK

 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
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70.251.0.79

As for manufacturing jobs in the US...

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March 4 2011, 7:47 PM 

.... " if we continue on this path the Asian countries will be our masters.
Our fault....don't think it's all the Unions fault.
Big business went overseas for lower wages higher profits, and our corrupt,
lazy, ignorant politicians allowed it, and worst of all, we tolerated it so
we could have cheap crap.....and crap it is.
It's a shame, the once powerful west, destined to have a disgraceful death by a thousand cuts." quote

Remember a very IMPORTANT FACT about manufacturing in the US, this exporting of labor and the jobs is being done by the MANAGEMANT of US firms, BY US citizens ! The Federal Govt. is NOT the one responsible for this. Our own US citizen pin stripes are RESPONSIBLE for this . If we will ALL take wage cuts BELOW minimum wage ($7.25/hr) they MIGHT stay here. But even at a wage BELOW $7.25/hr it's hard to compete labor cost wise with $3.00/day (12 hr work day) as the labor costs are offshore. Sounds like the US pre 1929 and I don't want to go back to that. happy.gif
Hate to say it, but large scale manufacturing as we have known it in the US over the past 75 years is GONE. And WON'T be back. We need now to come up with the new moustrap that WE can be THE place to get it from and this will be in areas that are DIFFERENT from what we have worked in, in the past. The old days are OVER, it IS the 21st century and as has historicaly happened in the past, the first 2 decades of a new century are the periods of the greatest change and those generations that come AFTER benifit from this period.
As for the media and who gives the CORRECT story, I noticed that some of us rely on TOTALLY one side or another for their view of veracity. NO ONE SIDE gives the correct view, as each has their particular agenda to promote. The way that most of the human race has advanced historically has been thru the process of COMPRIMISE and we are not willing to do this anymore, on EITHER side, so we will have to live with the results happy.gif


 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
Founding Member
99.239.136.40

Although I wonder Michael, if we didn't buy what they

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March 4 2011, 8:24 PM 

were selling and only purchased big ticket items produced here... would they
change their tune?
I don't know what kind of silver bullit you're talking about when you say we must find some high tech industries to save our arses.....sure, brainiac's which account for 3% of the population will make some money then the new technology will be sent to China to be produced.
How does that help us?
I realise it's corporations made up of U.S. citizens making these decisions, but
the government could make things difficult for them to have the best of both worlds.
Corporations love the stability of the west and our (once) highly rated currencies, so
if you want to be able to be based here, live here, and profit by it, then maybe you should be required to have some operations based here which would provide some jobs.
You make it sound like everyone is so powerless to some old money wimpy blue blooded MBA types.
There are measures which could be taken by government which could slow or even stop this exodus
of jobs but the politicians are in the pockets of big business.

And watch what happens when you get critical mass of people who have lost everything and are living
on the poverty line or worse while these "titans of business" live it up in mansions and private
jets etc......it won't be pretty.



    
This message has been edited by GeorgeRado from IP address 99.239.136.40 on Mar 4, 2011 8:25 PM


 
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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
AWF Approved Poster
70.251.0.79

You make good points...

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March 4 2011, 9:20 PM 

... " And watch what happens when you get critical mass of people who have lost everything and are living
on the poverty line or worse while these "titans of business" live it up in mansions and private
jets etc......it won't be pretty." Qoute
And we were born from a violent revolution, maybe it's time we return to our roots happy.gif
I don't think we trully have the same cajones our forefathers had so that will probably NOT happen, but it is a thought. happy.gif Otherwise we better get used to the future as it will happen.
Pandora's out of the box worldwide and she's NOT going back in. We need to stop whinning and start working on how to get her to be OUR Pandora. We all want some level of consistancy in our lives, and CHANGE is the ONLY CONSTANT in the world. We need to learn to accept that and embrace it and make it work for us. THERE IS NO GOING BACK to what WAS. We MUST ACCEPT going FORWARD happy.gif

 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
Founding Member
70.70.239.50

They don't make cajones the way they used to...

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March 4 2011, 11:19 PM 

I know; I'm in the custom cabinet business wink.gif

We also don't grow cojones like we used to sad.gif

What will likely happen is that people will become so downtrodden and desperate that the resulting action will be a real mess. Unfortunately, we can see this right ow in several middle eastern countries. It will take a lot of tragedy and loss of life before the boss/owner elite are brought down sad.gif

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poywatch
(Login saykobro)
Founding Member
173.168.72.216

I thought it was cojones. IOW, your jones and my jones = co-jones>

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March 6 2011, 11:22 PM 

Not that I majored in Spanish, but I did take several courses of it. Check your spelling. happy.gif

Boomtown
Explode
boomtown7.jpg


 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
Founding Member
70.70.239.50

You picked up on that quite nicely Jimmy ;>)

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March 7 2011, 10:00 PM 

I couldn't resist busting Michael's chops since he lives close enough to the source that he should have used the word for 'testes' instead the one for 'drawers/boxes' wink.gif

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Michael in Texas
(Login monbla256)
AWF Approved Poster
70.251.0.79

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone here...

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March 4 2011, 9:29 PM 

... engaging in the MOST CIVIL discussion of this situation. It's VERY personal and is very unsettling for ALL of us. I've been on some other Forums where all this gets crazy and just wanted to say THANK YOU to all of us for carrying this on in the calm and civil manner. It's to bad our elected representatives can't do the same. JMHO

 
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(Login GeorgeRado)
Founding Member
99.239.136.40

yes, this has been a good topic, and it progressed very

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March 4 2011, 10:48 PM 

well without anyone getting too strung out:)
I must sound a little bitter, however, nothing could be farther from the truth.
In fact, I've had a very easy life up 'till now.
After I left my last job, I took a year and a half off to spend with my
new baby, and shortly after I started looking again, I found an excellent job
with benefits, a pension plan, etc.
I guess it's just that I'm seeing the big picture, and it makes
me wonder what kind of world this will be for my child.
That and the kind of greed and short term thinking that is detrimental
to society.
As much as I hate to admit this, but as Peter has mentioned, I am seriously thinking
of having my child study mandarin.
One must be practical.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.

 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
Founding Member
70.70.239.50

You may have described why things have gone so well for you...

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March 4 2011, 11:01 PM 

'you are seeing the big picture'.

I see that picture too but unfortunately, have not tried to find something I can do outside of my skill set/knowledge.
As soon as I start looking outside the very cramped 'box' I have limited myself to; I should be able to get back on track happy.gif

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(Login GeorgeRado)
Founding Member
99.239.136.40

or from what I've been reading here, just very lucky

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March 4 2011, 11:15 PM 


 
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(Login Ancre-Steam)
Founding Member
70.70.239.50

George; if I have learned anything in the last 63 years...

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March 4 2011, 11:22 PM 

it's that we each make our own luck; good or bad.

The problem with most of us is that we lack focus and if you can't see the prize, you'll not likely ever achieve it!

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