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Anonymous
(Login Cetnikpajo)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

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November 26 2006, 10:20 AM 

There are alot of peace loving muslims out there, but do not tell me muslims will prevail. That tells me you are an extremist. Any part of the free world will not tolerate your make beleive relegion. Every relegion knows of Jesus Christ even muslims. So if you do not like what your current conditions are, get out then and go back to whatever country your family came from. If you look at histiry a little closer you can not blame some countries for not letting muslims build mosques and do their worshiping. Muslims came there to take over that fvcking country, they did not prevail, nice try. Now you want sympathy, give me a break. Maybe muslims should of came there in peace and I bet things would be alot different today. I must state that I have no problems with the muslim relegion but I have a big problem with terrorist, who represent the extremist and the false side of islam.

 
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Anonymous
(Login General-Antranik)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

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November 26 2006, 5:51 PM 

dardanus
I did not understand your incoherent post...are you trying to convince me that albanians put Milosevic in jail? It was a pure political decision to punish Milo for his firm stand against US and western interventionist policies. Albanians could not even remove him for another 10 years if not for the serb people.

As for the new rule, they should not turn in the serbian heroes Mladic and Karadzic, just like any other country that comes under attack and sudden pressure to disintegrate, serbians defended their country. Milo did what every other statesman would do for his country against foreign aggression. Perhaps he did not do well enough... he should not have signed the Dayton Agreement in 1995 and should not have pressured bosnian serbs to stop the fight in Bosnia.




 
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Dardanus
(Login dardanus)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

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November 27 2006, 11:53 PM 

here General terrorists dont meet with Condoliza Rajz (left KOSOVO PRESIDENT, center Condoliza Rajz, right AGIM Çeku

 
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Dardanus
(Login dardanus)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

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November 27 2006, 11:53 PM 

dardanus
I did not understand your incoherent post...are you trying to convince me that albanians put Milosevic in jail? It was a pure political decision to punish Milo for his firm stand against US and western interventionist policies. Albanians could not even remove him for another 10 years if not for the serb people.

As for the new rule, they should not turn in the serbian heroes Mladic and Karadzic, just like any other country that comes under attack and sudden pressure to disintegrate, serbians defended their country. Milo did what every other statesman would do for his country against foreign aggression. Perhaps he did not do well enough... he should not have signed the Dayton Agreement in 1995 and should not have pressured bosnian serbs to stop the fight in Bosnia.
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general ..
i am not trying to convince no one...but with the love the serbs had for MILo then they understood at 2000 that if they continue to keep him in power they will prevail...first serbia had a pressur from Tribunial HAG to campure MIlo....m saying if it wasnt' for 1999 war in kosovo milo will still be in power...so it was kosovo war that put him there..
as you say for the "HEROs" mladic and karadzic...what in god's name did they do do be heros...the only world to decribe them will be ""terrorist LEaders" let me explain ...you dont call a man hero when he orders to kill unarmed men women and children of muslim bosnians...srebrenica was the second holocoust...so why dont they call hitler an hero.....sorry generall...EU still wants those TERRORISTs.......

first they wanted....MILLO <ARKAN,,,then they both died...they still want Karadzic mladic...let me tell you this...this way serbia will never join EU until you give up al ur criminals...dont even think about EU......Serbia tried alot to make some of kosovo heros..as TERRORIST for excemple......(Agim Çeku----General of TMK---KOSOVO FORCE TROOPS>>today PRIme minister, Ramush Haradinaj...Fatmir Limaj....today all of these man move freely in EU and USA...no one calls them Terrorist cuz they undertand the politics of serbs....General have a sit and think about ur future and ur child's future...

 
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Anonymous
(Login General-Antranik)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

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January 7 2007, 3:18 PM 

what are you blabbing here?

If not for Mladic and Karadzic, serbs would have been annihilated from BiH just like it is now in Kosovo. It's the other way round. Serbs were treathened in their very own existence, their villages, their women, their culture and their faith.Kosovo is an example.

You talk about Srebrenica and you forget many other massacres commited by Croats and Muslims, that was civl war and not one sided "Genocide", where all parties had casualties. But people like you feel better by repeating stupidly what the US Media and political circles fabricated to justify a war in 1999. They demonized serbs and Slobo. Those same media and circles lied about Iraq and fabricated news and you were among the first I guess to condemn America.

How stupid...agression against Iraq was not justified but agression against Serbia was justified.

 
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TEUTA
(Login teuta1975)

ORIGIN OF SERBS......

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February 8 2007, 3:04 AM 

What I don't understand very well is: Serbs are hated in: Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Kosovo....Did I miss any??? WHY? Why should Albanians excpect them to be comprehensive? When Serbs migrated from North, took land from everywhere (Greece (FORYM), Albania, Italy, did I miss any???). Is natural the taken land would someday be claimed by its own owners. The best way to avoid that happened is to exterminate them all or even worse, Slavized (the most problematic would be those who'd refuse to slavized and refuse to speak Serbian). That's what Serbs think. They know the land where they are settled is not theirs and live in fear that someday someone could take it from them.

Read your origins:



Sabars (SERBS) and Avars



The name "Serb" is non-Slavic in origin and more likely than not original Serbs were overlords of the Slavs. The name 'Serb' designates not only the population in the invaders of Balkan peninsula but of Lusatia as well. Lusatia, a region in Eastern Germany is inhabited by a nation the Germans call the Wends from which the Greeks derived the word Venedi, alb. vendi 'homeland, country' hence an Illyrian not Slavic name. The name "Serb" is e neologism from the ancient homeland of Serbs, Sarmantia an ancient district between the Vistula River and the Caspian Sea, occupied by the Sarmatians [Lat. Sarmatae] from the 3d cent. B.C. through the 2d cent. A.D. The term is vague and is also used to refer to the territory along the Danube and across the Carpathians where the Sarmatians were later driven by the Huns. The Sarmatians, who until c.200 B.C. lived E of the Don River, spoke an Indo-Iranian language and were a nomadic pastoral people related to the Scythians (see Scythia), whom they displaced in the Don region. The main divisions were the Rhoxolani, the Iazyges, and the Alans or Alani. They came into conflict with the Romans but later allied themselves with Rome, acting as buffers against the Germans. They were scattered or assimilated with the Germans by the 3d cent. A.D.



The common Indo European phonetic mutation allowed -m > -mb > -b from Sarmoi > Serboi.

The name of Sarmatians derived from PIE Root / lemma: ker-6 and k̂er- : 'dark colour; dirt, etc'.

ahd. horo, Gen. horawes, mhd. hor, hurwe `ordure, smut' (*kr̥-u-); ags. horh, Gen. horwes, ahd. horg `dirty, filthy' (*kr̥-k-u̯-o); aisl. horr m. ` nasal mucus, snot, smut'; ags. hrot m. ` snot ', ahd. hroz ds., asächs. hrottag `snotty'; ahd. ruoz, rouz, mhd. ruoz, ruost, asächs. hrot `smut'; ags. hrum m. `smut', asächs. hrum, mhd. PN Rum-olt;

Maybe Sarmoi > Serboi, Srb from lit. sarma `gray, white weasel' [common PIE b > w mutation].

Both root names Hrv (Croat) and Srb (Serb) are interchangeable: s > h, b > v phonetic mutations. Clearly Srb (Serb) is the origin of the latter Hrv (Croat).

lit. šir̃vas `gray, greyish-blue' (*k̂r̥-u̯o-s), šir̃mas ds. (*k̂r̥-mo-s), lett. sirms `gray' (compare ai. śyā-má- `black, dark' besides śyā-vá- ds.); lit. šir̃vis `hare'; in addition lit. šarmà f. ` hoarfrost', lett. sarma, serma ds., lit. šarmuõ, šermuõ `ermine' (:ahd. harmo, ven.-illyr. carmō); šarmuonỹs m. `weasel', with ablaut ostlit. širmuonė̃lis ds., lett. sermulis m. `ermine';

The Indo European root/lemma Root / lemma: ker-6 and k̂er- : 'dark colour; dirt, etc' could be a collective name for Sarmatea 'dark people'.

Yet the origin of the name Sarmat could be an Indo European interpretation of Sabar (Sabat) common PIE b > mb > m phonetic mutation].

Serbs and Croats would retain their sumptuous Turkic names in contrast to their Slav mercenaries called Slovenians. Bosnia was populated by an Illyrian tribe called Besoi which eventually drowned under the Slavic tide. Montenegro would be called by Serbs as Crna Gora 'black mountain'. The true Slavs who defeated the Avars in the Balkans were actually Slovenians. They would impose their language on defeated Serbs, Montenegrins, Croats and Macedonian Avars. Bulgar Avars would suffer the same identity crises while Huns managed to survive in their tiny kingdom.





The origin of the name Serb from an Indo European root seems incredible. Serbian toponyms in their homeland in Caucasus are often remote to Slavic tongues.



Azerbaijan Ser-Abad : Serboi Greek reading.



Both names Serboi earlier Sabar and Hrvat (Croat) earlier Havar, Avar seem to have originated in the shores of the Caspian Sea. The forefathers of Serbs and Croats were not Indo European but Caucasian.

The names of Asian tribes Sabar and Kavar (*Havar) Avar derived from the same root [common shift b > v, also allophones s/ h].



Serbs (*Sabar) and Croats (Hrvat) were Avar tribes which Magyar sources essentially call Kabar and Kavar.



The remnant of Sabar, Avar excellent horsemanship in Turkish language was stamped in the cognate: tr. süvari ' cavalier, cavalry, cavalryman, chevalier, mounted troops, man'. Clearly the origin of Serbs and Croats is not Indo European. Although they adopted the language of their slaves, the Sabar and Avar overlords preserved their original name. Franks, a Germanic tribe who had conquered Gaul also lost its ancient language against numerically superior native population.



Turkish Identity of Avar People



In order to illuminate the state of affairs in brief, it should be beneficial to determine these 3 issues stated below:

a) 100 years before the collapse of Juan-Juan domination in the Central Asia (the events in 461-465, see Sabar people, Ogur people), the Byzantine historian Priskos (in the middle of the 5th century) dealt with the "Avar" tribe that existed in the western Siberian region. Another resource (Zakharias Rhetor, in the years of 550) cited about an "Avar" community in the west before the occurrence of the Mongolian events. In addition to these facts, the ancient Greek geographer, Strabon (1st century DC) stated that he dealt with "Abar-noi" people in his work and that the name of "Abaris" was used in combination with he Greek legends in the very ancient histories.



b) According to these records, it is obvious that the relevant Avar (Abat) people did not have any relation or relevance with the Mongolian Juan-Juan people that were totally abolished in the year of 555 DC.



c) Actually, it is of significance that the Byzantine historian Th. Simokattes (2nd quarter of the 7th century) had made a classification about Avar people such as "Real Avar" and "Fake Avar". According to the results obtained from the researches carried out upon this record, the group called as "Fake Avar" was composed of Warkhon (in other words, Var and Hund: in Simokattes) people that were the neighbors of the Oguz tribes living in the region between the Western Turkestan- Northern Caucasus and within the environs of Don-Idyll (Volga) Rivers and that were named as "Avar" in the Byzantine resources (Menandros, the end of 6th century).



These two Turkish groups that used to speak Turkish with Y like Gokturk, Hun peoples, etc. deserted from the government of Juan-Juan family that they were subject to after the year of 350 and they turned towards the west. These two tribes participated in the establishment of Ak Hun (Eftalit) State in Turkestan- Afghanistan- Northern India. Then, they got separated from the foreign domination in Mongolia pursuant to the defeats of Juan-Juan people against the Tabgaç armies in the years of 458-459. These War (var) and Hun tribes that came to the region of Caspian Sea-the north of Lake Aral constituted a Turkish tribal union and they were collectively named as Apar (Abar, Avar) in accordance with the occupations that they had.



Therefore, the founders and the dominant majority of the European Avar Khanate were composed of the crowded Turkish groups that came from the central regions of Asia and united with the Ogur tribes that they encountered in the plain lands of the southern Russia and the other Iranian foreign elements such as Mongolian, Alan people, etc. that retreated towards the west under pressure due to the political expansion of the Gok- Turk State.



Some of the Turkish administrative offices that were present in the Avar Khanate were essentially named with Turkish idioms (the titles such as Tudun, Yugruş, Tarhan, Boyar, Ban, etc.). Similarly, it is beyond doubt that the Avar statesmen that made history were of Turkish origin. Additionally, the name of the famous ruler Bayan was a Turkish name.



The statement that the Mongoloid type was dominant in the skeletons excavated from the tombs pertaining to the Avar period is not convincing. Actually, some archaeological excavations pertaining to Avar period were carried out in the regions that were within the domination fields of the Avar Empire (Hungary, Albania, Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Austria, the southern Germany) until the year of 1970s. As a result of these excavations, it has been determined that the Turkish type (brachycephalic) had a significant level among various types such as Germanic, Slav, Iranian, Finno-Ugrian, etc.



Origin of Avar People



Avar people established a powerful state in the Central Europe between the Frank Kingdom and the Byzantine Empire upon the support of the Turkish groups such as the ancient Hun and Sabar residuals and Oguz (Bulgarian) people, etc. They established dominion over various Germanic and particularly the crowded Slav tribes. Therefore, the Avar people had directed the course of the policy of Europe for nearly 250 years (558-805). The subject matter about the origin of Avar people has been one of the issues that caused great trouble for the historians and the linguists. It cannot be stated that there is a common opinion of the experts formed about this issue. However, the Turkish identity of the founders of the European Avar Khanate become much more definite as the researches are carried out on a much more extensive basis.



The Byzantine historian Th. Simokattes (2nd quarter of the 7th century) had stated that a group composed of nearly 20 thousands of people immigrated to the west pursuant to the abolition of the Ju-an-Juan State in Mongolia (in the beginning of the 4th century- 552/555) by the Gok-Turk State. This statement caused the establishment of a relation between the group that sent an envoy from the eastern borders of the Byzantine in the year of 558 and applied for allowance and residential lands for settlement and the groups that oriented from the Central Asia towards the west and then to the central regions of Europe. The general and mistaken consideration of the Juan-Juan as "Avar" and mostly "Asian Avar People" reinforced this opinion of relevance.



On the other hand, since Juan-Juan people were considered as Mongolians, it was natural that the European Avar people were of the same race. In the end of the previous century, a tribe named as Var-guni (Bar-guni) was determined to exist in Mongolia that reminded the European Avar People. In addition, it was stated that the human skeletons that were excavated from the tombs pertaining to the Avar era in Hungary were mostly Mongoloid. Furthermore, the allegation stating that Bayan that was the name of Avar Ruler was a Mongolian word reinforced this conviction.





Relations between Avar People and the Byzantine and their Penetration into Europe





Avar people abolished the Sabar domination in the year of 558 and advanced towards Caucasus. Then, they established domination of the Iranian Alan people and the Ogur tribes and sent envoys to the Byzantine. These Avar people wanted the payment of an annual tax and the allocation of lands for settlement. Meanwhile, the emperor Justinianos was occupied with extensive conquests in the Balkans and in Dalmatia and the struggles against the Ogur people that tried to invade the Thrace all of a sudden.



Therefore, the emperor rejected the payment of the tax. Then, he tried to set up a barrier composed of crowded Slav groups including particularly Ant people in the lower Danube basin in order to stop any possible Avar raid towards his country: However, Avar people that could surmount this obstacle easily in the year of 562 invaded the lower section of Danube River and they shared the same borders with the Byzantine. Then, they started to organize raids towards the central regions of Europe. Due to the hesitation of the Emperor Justinos (565-578) in the payment of the taxes, they suppressed the Byzantine under the government of Hakan Bayan since the years of 565 and they penetrated into the Cental Karpat.



They collaborated with Longobard people that constituted one of the Germanic tribes in the west of the Danube River. Then, they established dominion over Gepid people in the Eastern Hungary. Upon the migration of the Longobard people to the Northern Italy in the year of 568, they invaded the entire Hungary of today. Therefore, the Avar people had established a great state in the Central Europe. Afterwards, they defited the Frank king Siegebert in the west and captured the important Byzantine border citadels such as Singidunum (Belgrade) and Sirmium (Eszek), etc. in the south.



The great organiser, Bayan Hakan who accomplished the conquests stated above came to Çorlu in order to advance towards Istanbul in the year of 592 and the Byzantine capital city was seized with fear. Meanwhile, the entire regions extending from the northern Slav regions towards Italy had become the military operational fields of the Abar people.



Blockade of Istanbul by Avar People in 626





The principal core of the army of the Avar Khanate was composed of Turks and this army was supported by the crowded backup troops that were recruited from various Slav and Germanic tribes. It has been understood that the Avar Khanate tried to maintain the safety and security of the principal market cities and the trade routes. The important military attempts of the Avar people in the course of their domination in Europe for a period of 200 years were the military blockades of Istanbul. The first blockade (in 617 or 619) was carried out by Avar people upon the collaboration with Sasani State and this blockade was so impressive that even the Emperor Herakleios (610-641) thought of the abandoning the capital city and going to Kartaca. Pursuant to this first blockade, the second operation was carried out jointly with the cooperation of the Sasani Empire again (626). In these years, the Iranian-Byzantine wars became more severe and cruel and the Sehinshah Husrev II (590-628) captured the entire el-Cezire, Palestine and Syria.



Under these circumstances, the emperor Herakleios who was in the coasts of the Eastern Black Sea went to Tbilisi in order to provide military help and assistance from the Khazar Turks. At the same time, the Iranian army under the command of Şahrvaraz passed through the entire Anatolia and reached to Bosphorus. Concurrently, the Avar army that was supported by the Bulgarian forces passed over the Balkans and Thrace and came in front of the city walls of Istanbul. The actual military blockade was carried out by the Avar army (in July-August 626). This operation that aroused great excitement in the capital city that was defended by the Patriarch Sergios and Patricius Bonos left historical memoirs behind. The day that was declared as a "holiday" for the commemoration of the salvation (on Saturday in the 5th week of the "Great Fast") was memorialized in the form of ceremonies organized in the churches for centuries and it has been understood that the hymn of "Akathistos" was related with this Avar blockade.



The military blockade failed due to the lack of a navy and therefore, the Avar army had to retreat under difficult situations without the attainment of any result. This situation caused the khanate to lose its influence and prestige and the advance towards the decline. The backup troops got dispersed. Particularly after the death of the ruler in the year of 630, the subject groups rebelled upon the encouragement and support of the Byzantine. As a result of the long struggles, the Balkans were captured by the Bulgarians. The region of Danube-Sava was left to the Slav tribes such as Croatian, Slovenian, etc. and the Bohemian region was abandoned to the ancestors of the Czech people. Therefore, the Avar Khanate was surrounded within the circle of hostile states and it lost its economical opportunities and facilities.



It gradually lost power during the 8th century. As a result of the attacks and raids of Frank Empire (Karolus Magnus= the period of Carlemagne: 768-814)-with a severe and cruel holy war- that lasted incessantly for 15 years since the year of 791 (the fortified capital city of Avar people in the Central Hungary was captured in the period of Pepin in 776), the Avar Khanate was totally abolished (805). The Avar groups that got disintegrated spread within the Eastern Hungary and the Balkans. Within a short period, they became Christians and they got assimilated within the native people.





However, it has been observed that the Avar influence kept going in Europe. The traces of their mementoes include the title of "Ban" that was one of the highest military-governmental titles among the Croatian people (Baga in Gok-Turk language and Bagan in Avar language that was present among the Bulgarians and Hungarians) and the titles such as Boyar and Yugruş, etc. and the name of the cities such as Navarino in Greece (=Pylos, with the original form of Avarino), and Antivari in Albania (=Br, with its ancient form of Civitas Avarorum). Furthermore, the archaeological works pertaining to the Avar period that were excavated in Hungary (the cast tools and horse harnesses with the animal fight descriptions upon these materials) are accepted as the examples of the Turkish art in Europe (animal style) that originally developed in the Central Asia and the traces of this style can also be observed in France in the period of Movergin family.



The Protsotvats golden treasury in Albania pertains to Avar people. Additionally, the archaeological researches have also displayed the influence of Avar Turkish art over the Germanic and Slavic arts. A treasure composed of 23 units of golden pots with Turkish inscriptions on them was found in the site of Nagy Szent in the Central Hungary in the year of 1799 and the question about the Turkish tribe to which this treasure belonged is a still debated issue. However, it has been alleged that this famous treasure belonged to the period of Avar people.



As a consequence; the domination of Avar people in Europe for more than two centuries is of great significance for several reasons in respect of the European history. First of all, the Slavic tribes had lived under the long-term Turkish domination for the first time and they found the opportunity to advance from the stage of "tribal" life to the stage of state organization due to the influence of Turkish state and military organizations. Secondly, the Turks had much more blended with various Germanic (Frank) groups. This relation has been mostly composed of reciprocal struggles; however, both tribes were forced to resolve a state of coping in the capacity of neighboring groups.



Influences of Avar People over Slavs





It has been understood that the Avar Khanate had had influence particularly over the Islamic tribes. It has been known that as a result of the precautions taken by Avar people, the first Slav groups settled in the Balkans in an essential manner. There are some indicators that showed that this Turkish tribe established domination over the southern and the eastern Slavs for a long time and most of the Slavic tribes were totally defeated by the Avar people.



The Slavic groups were under the domination of German Goths until the 4th century and then, they were under the domination of Turks subject to the Hun Empire. The history of the Slavic communities has turned into nearly "a part of the Turkish history" from that date on. The disperse of crowded Slavic groups towards various Eastern Europe regions and the Balkans took place mostly in the period of Avar people. These large-scaled migrations were arranged and implied by the Avar government. Therefore, the Avar government led them to undertake the agricultural works in order to yield the harvest and crops that were needed by the Avar Khanate and the performance of border forefront services at the same time.



Therefore, various Slavic tribes were directed towards today's Czechoslovakia and the banks of Elbe River, the coasts of Dalmatia and the Balkans. In the years of 750, it was cited that there was some Slav people that were called as "Avar" within the environs of Athens. In the same periods, the names of the leaders that led the Croatian people to the Adriatic coasts were listed as follows: Kiıliik, Lobel (Alp-el?), Kösenci (Koşuncu), Buga, Tugay. It has been alleged that there were some Avar beys that became Slavs who were the leaders of 9th Pannonia (Western Hungary) and Morva Slav groups. On the other hand, it has been declared that the German tribes abandoned their homelands in the Czech country as a result of the pressure of Avar leaders rather than Slav people that were so weak in respect of war capabilities.



It has also been stated that this situation was confirmed with the works related with Avar art that were found in the Eastern Hungary. Therefore, according to the statement of Bishop Syrian Johannes in the year of 584, "While the Slav people could not dare even to get out of the forests in the past, the Slavs got accustomed to war by means of the Avar people and they became the owners of gold, silver, and herds of horses. They were oriented towards migration in a systematic manner. Therefore, it has been understood that the ethnical map of today's Central and Eastern Europe was drawn by the Avar Khanate. The Avar groups that live in the Caucasus today are accepted as the descendants of them.





Name of Sabar



It has been determined through the unorganized information in various foreign resources that this Turkish community had played an important role in the Western Siberia and the northern region of the Caucasus in the 5th-6th centuries DC. This Turkish community was named as Sabar, Sabir, and Savir in the Byzantine resources and as Savır, Sabr, S(a)bir, Sibir, etc. in the Armenian, Syrian Christian, and Islamic resources.



The allegations stating that the Sabar people were of Slav or Mongolian or Finno-Ugrian origin had become out-of-date. Today, it has been understood that they were Turks in origin in respect of the names that they hold and the historical and cultural characteristics. As a result of the labial attraction in various languages, the word of Sabar has been observed in various forms. The word of Sabar that can only be identified with Turkish language was formulated as the addition of the suffix of +ar to the verb of "sab+ar" (=sap-ar= sapmak/ violate, deviate) (Some other examples are: Khazar, Bulgar, Kabar, etc). It has the meaning of "deviationist, defector, uncontrolled, free" and it is in compliance with the naming procedures among the Turks. Furthermore, the personal names pertaining to Sabar people are also Turkish. Balak, İlig-er, Bo-arık =Buğ-arık, etc.











Ancient History of Sabar People





The ancient periods of Sabar people are not known well. If they had separated from a main group in accordance with the meaning of their names, they must have been one of the communities subject to the Great Hun Empire that lived in the region of the west of Tien Shan Mountains- Ili River that was their homeland. The first definite information about Sabar people was provided by the Byzantine historian Priskos (5th century) on the occasion of the great movement among the Western Siberian tribes between the years of 461-465 and the large-scaled events of migrations. Against the Avar pressure that came from the east, the Sabar people abandoned their lands and oriented towards the west. They drove the Ogur-Turk tribes that lived in the plain lands between Altay-Ural Mountains (the southern region of today's Kyrgyzstan steppe lands) from their homeland. Then, they settled within the environs of Tobol and İçim Rivers.



Sabar people had had profound influences in this region through their culture that was superior to the cultures of the native people that lasted for centuries: The names of places and castles such as Sabar, Saber (Tapar), Soper, Savri, Sabrei, Sıbır (Sı-vır), etc. are much widespread within the environs of Tobolsk and on the banks of Ob, Tura and Irtish. The personal names such as Ay-sabar, Kün-sabar, etc. have also been encountered. The people of Tobolsk have called the ancient inhabitants of this region as Sybyr, Syvyr.



Furthermore, Sabar people have an important place in the folk tales and heroic short stories of the people in this region. Apart from Ostiyak people that considered Sabar people as their celebrities, the Vogul people have also called the Russians with the name of "Sa-per" that they were subject to. All these events indicate the superior characteristics of the ancient Sabar people in the public opinion. The capital city of the Sibir Khanate that was founded in the same region (16th century) had the name of Sibir.



This word identified a wide geographical area in the course of time (Siberia)… The Russians had captured the city of Sibir (Isker) and then called the region with this name. Then, this name indicated much wider regions upon the advance of the Russian movement. Therefore, the keepsake of the Sabar Turks has survived until nowadays.





Sabar People in the Eastern Europe





Sabar people had expanded their domination towards the Eastern Europe in the very early year of 503 and they subdued some of the Bulgarian groups. A crowded group of Sabar people settled between the Idyll (Volga)- Don Rivers and on the banks of Kuban River that was located in the north of the Caucasus. Therefore, they were directly in contract with the Byzantine and Sassani State. These situations led them to have a priority in the history of the Eastern Europe. In those years while the Iranian- Byzantine wars kept ongoing, Sabar people had a large-scaled military operation under the command of Balak (Belek?). Then, Sabar people collaborated with Sassani people and fought against the Byzantine (516).

It has been known that they organized some raids towards the Armenia region and then penetrated into Anatolia and advanced towards Caesarea Cappadociae, Ankara, and Iconium. On this occasion, the Byzantine must have been lost in amazement due to the great war power and especially the high techniques of the war materials. The expressions of Prokopios are significant: "Sabar people have machines that have not been designed either by Iranians and the Roman people since the periods that the human being remembered. There was always a scientist in each two empires and they made war machines in every period. However, any invention that was similar to the materials of these barbarians have not been invented or used like they did so far.



It is beyond doubt that this is the masterpiece of the human wisdom." Pursuant to Balak (died in 520s), his widow wife, Bo(ğ)arık that replaced him was a famous Turkish queen that was well-known with her warrior and governor characteristics and her beauty. She commanded the Sabar army that was composed of "100 thousands" of people. The Byzantine Emperor Justinian (527-565) preferred to conclude an agreement with Boğarık in return for various silver made vases and the other rich gifts and presents (528). The Byzantine must have considered that it would be a more appropriate political stance to collaborate with Sabar people and establish friendly terms in the Sasani War that was ongoing for centuries.



Collapse of Sabar People





Any clear evidence pertaining to the following period could not be obtained about the Sabar people that seemed to have been in cooperation with the Byzantine until the year of 531. It has been anticipated that they suffered from terrible losses and casualties in the continuous and successful wars of Sasani State in the Caucasus (especially in 545) in the period of Şehinshah Anuşirvan (Adil). As a result of this decline, they lost their military power and they had a terrible strike from Avar people towards the year of 557. After a short period, the Sabar regions were under the domination of the Gok-Turk State that reached to the Black Sea.

In the year of 576, their domination in the Caucasus was abolished by the Byzantine. Then, some of Sabar people were settled in the south of Kura River. Their name was observed in an unorganized manner until the middle of the 7th century. It has been understood that Sabar people constituted the main community of the Khazar people that came into existence as a great state in the same region in these years. Similarly, it has been observed that Belencer and Semender tribes that were considered as Khazar tribes were essentially two big Sabar groups.









The original Serbs and Croats were Central Asian Sarmatian nomads who entered Europe with the Huns in the fourth century A.D. The Sarmatian Serbs settled in a land designated as White Serbia, in what is now Saxony and Western Poland. The Sarmatian Serbs, it is argued, intermarried with the indigenous Slavs of the region, adopted their language, and transferred their name to the Slavs. Byzantine sources report that some Serbs migrated southward in the seventh century A.D. and eventually settled in the lands that now make up southern Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Hercegovina. Rival chiefs, or zupani, vied to control the Serbs for five centuries after the migration. Zupan Vlastimir formed a Serbian principality under the Byzantines around 850, and the Serbs soon converted to Eastern-rite Christianity. The Serbs had two political centers in the eleventh century: Zeta, in the mountains of present-day Montenegro, and Raska, located in modern southwestern Serbia.



The proto-Serbs were part of the Caucasian Race much like the Georgians, Mingrelians, Lezghians, Ingush, and spoke a language similar to these peoples. At some point in the history of the Serbs, this Old Serb language stood side by side with the Slavic language in White Serbia (Porphyrogenitus) and likely even in the first 300 years leading up to the formation of the Serb state on the Balkans in the 9th century. Even to this day, the Serb language has at least a third as many words in its vocabulary than other Slavic languages. This is because of the influence of Old Serb and Illyrian as well as Turkish on the Slavic language spoken by Serbs today. Here is a list of Old Serb words which exist side by side with Slavic words in the modern Serb language.



The Serbs were mentioned by Plinius the Younger in the first century BC (69-75) as living on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov as Serboi in his Geographica. In the 2nd century, Herodotus writes in his Persian Wars that Serbs (Serboi, Sirboi - Serboi, Sirboi) live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea. In the fourth century the Carpathians are mentioned as 'Serb mountains' by the Roman emperor Licinius.



In the Caucasus, the homeland of the Serbs, they left their traces around the river Volga (Araxes in Greek). In modern Georgian, that river is called "Rashki". This name was used by Balkan Serbs as a name for their first state and is found wherever the name Serb is found in clusters indicating settlements. It is often used to designate hydronyms and likely meant 'river' or 'water' in Old Serb.



The Serbs migrated in two directions from the Caucasus, northwest and northeast. Those who went northwest became overlords to the Slavs. There they established a mighty empire and became slavicized. Konstantine Porfirogenitus called this "White Serbia". Their descendants are known as Lusatian Serbs today and despite immense Germanization, there are still a few thousand left. These we will call 'White Serbs'.



The other branch moved northeast to the southern base of the Urals, settled there for a period of time and split into two. We will call them 'Volga Serbs'. One tribe moved west and eventually met up with the above mentioned White Serbs. The other moved east and went deep into Siberia and left its traces in the names of cities and towns along the coast of the Sea of Japan. They faded out with onslaught from the Mongols. These we will call 'Siberian Serbs'. It seems likely that Siberia was named after this Old Serb tribe.



It seems that the western branch of the Volga Serbs, upon their rendezvous with the White Serbs did not stay long. They must have found the White Serbs completely Slavicized by then (6th century). The descendants of these Slavicized white Serbs are today's Lusation Sorbs. This would explain why Lusatian Sorbs did not pick up the Caucasian words of the original Serb language while Balkan Serbs retained theirs. The western Volga branch of the Serbs must have left White Serbia immediately upon their own arrival, and according to Porfirogenitus, came to the Balkans (7th cent), invited by Heracleus, defeated the Avars and were given Macedonia to inhabit. There they took the already settled Slavs (who began arriving in the 5th and 6th cents) under their control and became Slavicized much as the White Serbs.



These Slavs who came before the Serbs had already assimilated the Illyrians, who were an Indo European people.



Most contemporary historians agree that the old Serbs were no Slavs, at all, but a non-Slavic caste ruling over Slavs.



Serbs: living among the ancient peoples of the Black Sea

The first mention of the Serbs ('Serboi') in history locates them in the Caucasus among the Dinaric peoples of Ibero-caucasian linguistic stock.

Here are a few of the earsliest quotations from well known ancient geographers and historians:





Strabon (63 - 19. god. stare ere)

"...the rivier Ksant is called Srbika by the natives."

( Strabonis rerum geographicarum libri septendicini, Basileza 1571 s. 763)



Plinius (69-75 AD)

"... beside the Cimerians live Meotics, Valians Serbs (Serboi), Zingians, Psesians."

("On Nature" "A Cimmerio accolunt Meadici, Vali, Serbi, Zingi, Psesii - Plinius Ceacilius Secundus Historia naturalis, VI, c. 7 & 19 Leipzig 1975)



Claudius Ptolomei (150 AD) - geographer

" ... between the Keraunian mountains and the river Pa, live the Orineians, Valians and Serbs."

(Claudius Ptolomaius, Geographica... V, s. 9)



A theory on Avars and their relations to the Serbs

Alex Petrovic



The Caucasian Avars who conquered the Balkans have given Serbia, Crna Gora, and Croatia the names each respectively bears today. In the Lesghian-Avar language, the Balkan Crna Gora carries the same toponym of the land they left behind in the Caucasus: also called Crna Gora, now part of Daghestan. In the Lesghian-Avar language: Srbi means "people." Also, in the Lesghian-Avar language: Albania is the land they called their homeland, neighboring Armenia, once known as Ancient Caucasian Albania, dating back 2,000 years ago, but still found in old maps. Yet the name Albania derived from the Illyrian tribe Albanoi. The Illyrian mercenaries took part in the campaign of Alexander the Great in India. Some of these tribes settled in the Caucasus region while others continued the journey towards India. Illyrian foot-soldiers created military stations for the Macedonian army for a safe return. The very name Albania has no cognates in Caucasian languages so it is not a native eponym. The name Albanoi derives from Indo European Root / lemma: albho-: 'white'.



Obviously the ancestors of the Serbs, Montenegrins, and Croats were Avar tribes (not to be confused with Mongol tribes near Siberia) from the Caucasus, however the indigenous people such as the Thracians, Dacians, Illyrians, and Slav retainers, were fussed with them, giving mixed signals to us all today. Serbs and Croats think they are pure Slavs, which they are not. The Montenegrins think they are Polabs who have been christianized by Rome, which is not true.

The Avars were totally assimilated by the Thracians and Slavs, and their vestiges live on in Serbs, Montenegrins and Croats so does their spirit. The Council of Chalcedon changed many things for them but they continued to exist as part of the Khazar Confederacy (Khazar is a Turkic word for Georgians or Circassians) always keeping Byzantine ties rather than Latin ones. They paid great heed to their dead and had 26 tribes, including clans, like the Montenegrins.



While the origins of the Serbs and Croats are still shrouded in mystery it is clear that from the very beginning these two distinct but close tribes moved one beside the other. Their histories have always been entwined. How close the tribes were is attested by the fact that they spoke, and still speak, virtually the same language. The Slav spread through the Balkans carried on until about 800 when it not only stopped but, in certain areas such as Greece and Albania, appears to have been reversed.



Tim Juddah





"Most scholars believe either that both Serbs and Croats were Slavic tribes with Iranian castes, or that they were originally Iranian tribes which had acquired Slavic subjects... What is clear is that the Serbs and Croats had a similar and connected history from the earliest of times..."



N. Malcolm.





"The Slavs settled in Bosnia (as well as Serbia, Croatia, and Montenegro) in the late sixth and early seventh centuries. They appeared in small tribal units but were drawn from a single Slavic confederation-the Slaveni. Thus the Bosnians come from the same Slavic base as today's Serbs and Croats. In the second quarter of the seventh century, the Croatians (who were probably of Iranian origin) invaded and asserted their overlordship over the Slavs (Slaveni) in Croatia and parts of Bosnia. In regions to the south and east of Bosnia, the Serbs (also probably Iranians) came to predominate over the Slavs there."

John V. A. Fine





The so called 'pure race' is an idealized point of view of anthropologists. European people are not pure races. He who says to be racial and ethno-biological pure, in fact pleads for it own biological degeneration. Along with that Serbs and Croats are maybe not even Slavs, according to some ethnologists. During the ethnical waves that whipped across the Balkans between the 5th and 7th century, they arrived on the Balkans as two quite unimportant en not very crowded tribes, from their home countries White Croatia and White Serbia (that also in that time bounded towards each other) somewhere between Caucasus and Carpathian mountains. The Croats and the Serbs came on the 6th century on the Balkans (and quarreled since than about who came first) after they were expelled by the Mongols, and they came as foot-soldiers of the Avarian people. According to some scientists the word Serb 'Srb' and the word Croat 'Hrvat' even come from the Avaric language, which could be so because they can not be related to Slavic words.



Which leftovers are purely Croat, and which purely Serb? The Croatian historiographer from the 19th century Natko Nodilo wonders himself. 'I do not know the answer like an Englishman doesn't know the difference between the old Angelic and Saxon heathens.


The Serb Name in the Caucasus Region



The Republic of Georgia:

Serbaisi, Georgia, Republic of Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.32, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
41.9500
Longitude
43.3000
Altitude (feet)
1692\

Lat (DMS)
41° 57' 0N
Long (DMS)
43° 17' 60E
Altitude (meters)
515


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=41.9500&long=43.3000&name=Serbaisi&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=1692



Serebryannoye, Georgia, Republic of Page

Latitude
43.3667
Longitude
40.8000
Altitude (feet)
2437

Lat (DMS)
43° 22' 0N
Long (DMS)
40° 47' 60E
Altitude (meters)
742


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=43.3667&long=40.8000&name=Serebryannoye&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=2437





Serebryanoye, Georgia, Republic of Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.58, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
43.3283
Longitude
40.8539
Altitude (feet)
2372

Lat (DMS)
43° 19' 42N
Long (DMS)
40° 51' 14E
Altitude (meters)
722


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=43.3283&long=40.8539&name=Serebryanoye&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=2372







Serebryanyy, Georgia, Republic of Page

Latitude
43.3667
Longitude
40.8000
Altitude (feet)
2437

Lat (DMS)
43° 22' 0N
Long (DMS)
40° 47' 60E
Altitude (meters)
742


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=43.3667&long=40.8000&name=Serebryanyy&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=2437





Armenia:

Serebryanyy, Georgia, Republic of Page

Latitude
43.3667
Longitude
40.8000
Altitude (feet)
2437

Lat (DMS)
43° 22' 0N
Long (DMS)
40° 47' 60E
Altitude (meters)
742


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=43.3667&long=40.8000&name=Serebryanyy&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=2437





Azerbaijan:

Serebovski, Azerbaijan Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 5.91, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
40.3956
Longitude
49.9736
Altitude (feet)
403

Lat (DMS)
40° 23' 44N
Long (DMS)
49° 58' 25E
Altitude (meters)
122


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=40.3956&long=49.9736&name=Serebovski&cty=Azerbaijan&alt=403



Serebrovskiy, Azerbaijan Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 5.55, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
40.3956
Longitude
49.9736
Altitude (feet)
403

Lat (DMS)
40° 23' 44N
Long (DMS)
49° 58' 25E
Altitude (meters)
122


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=40.3956&long=49.9736&name=Serebrovskiy&cty=Azerbaijan&alt=403



Seri-abad, Azerbaijan Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 5.66, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
39.3736
Longitude
48.5767
Altitude (feet)
3

Lat (DMS)
39° 22' 25N
Long (DMS)
48° 34' 36E
Altitude (meters)
0


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=39.3736&long=48.5767&name=Seri%2dabad&cty=Azerbaijan&alt=3



Ser-Abad, Azerbaijan Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.57, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
39.3783
Longitude
48.5975
Altitude (feet)
3

Lat (DMS)
39° 22' 42N
Long (DMS)
48° 35' 51E
Altitude (meters)
0


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=39.3783&long=48.5975&name=Ser%2dAbad&cty=Azerbaijan&alt=3









There are also countless Serb toponyms (too many to list) found all over Russia, Ukraine, Belorussia, Czech and Slovak Republics, Poland, Germany to attest to the migration of Serbs from the Caucasus to northern Europe and to their present location in the Balkans.



At first we find the Serb name in the above mentioned locations in the Caucasus. Then we find the Serb name breaking into two directions with one branch shifting NORTHWEST out of the Caucasus region into southern Russia towards the Ukraine and Central Europe. We find the Serb name moving across the Ukraine and along the Carpathians into Central Europe. It is appropriate to note that the in the third century Roman emperor Licinius referred to the Carpathians as 'Serb mountains'.



We find another row of Serb toponyms moving northeast from the Caucasus towards the base of the Ural mountains. At the base of the Ural mountains we find a cluster of Serb toponyms. We can conclude that this branch of Serbs settled there for a period of time. Then we notice Serb toponyms moving in two directions. One going eastbound deep into Asia moving along the Kama river and the other going WESTBOUND following the river Volga into Ukraine Poland. It is likely that this divergent movement happened because of a disagreement between the Serb tribal leaders of this tribe of 'Ural Serbs'. This faction which moved WESTBOUND eventually met up with the first group of Serbs which immediately left the Caucasus for Central Europe, as the direction of toponyms shows. This land eventually became to be called 'White Serbia' by Konstantine Porphyrogenitus.



We can conclude based on the distance of toponyms one from the other that they are the most dense in the modern Czech Republic, Western Ukraine, and southern Poland as well as Eastern Germany. This may have been the size of the 'White Serbia' which Porphyrogenitus spoke of. It would have been even by modern standards a large European nation. South of it was 'White Croatia' as we can tell by Croatian toponyms in Slovak and Hungarian lands.



Having migrated from the southern Caucasus to the north, as we can see by the shift in the toponyms northward, we see other Serb toponyms moving eastward towards the Ural mountains and the Kama river and we even find Serb toponyms along Russia's border with China. It would appear that when the Serbs left the Caucasus region they split into two groups moving in separate directions. One moved into the southern Ukraine and along the Carpathians into Northern Europe the other eastbound to the base of the Ural mountains. We see a string of Serb toponyms from there moving westbound along the Volga and another string on the same longitude moving eastbound deep into Siberia. Along the coast of the Sea of Japan there are two towns named 'Serbia' and two other towns named after the Serb toponym Rashka (a name the Serbs took to them wherever they went; it is distinctly Serb and not Slavic, it might have meant river, this would explain the many hydronyms derived from 'Rash' in Poland, Germany and Russia where Old Serbs settled).



Serb toponyms aren't thrown around Europe and Asia randomly, they are often in rows and lines one after the other, moving in a particular direction:



1. northwest from the Caucasus along present the Carpathians into Central Europe.

2. northeast from the Caucasus to the Urals into Siberia.

3. from the Urals westbound to Central Europe.





It is wisest to conclude that diverging Serb toponyms mark the path various Serb tribes took while they were migrating from the Caucasus to Europe and Asia. Interestingly the migrations are not in accordance to Slavic migrations, thus implying that Serbs were overlords to the Slavs and migrated and existed together with the Slavs.



Here are the locations of Serb toponyms in alphabetical order:

Sarbai 58N 49E 152 498

Sarbaktuy 51N 116E 557 1827

Sarbala 53N 87E 232 761

Sarbala 60N 43E 111 364

Sarbalin 54N 74E 103 337

Sarbalyk 55N 76E 110 360

Sarbayevo 55N 45E 249 816

Sarbay 51N 57E 412 1351

Sarbay 52N 56E 182 597

Sarbay 53N 51E 198 649

Sarbay 54N 56E 145 475

Sarbay 58N 49E 152 498

Sarba 55N 76E 110 360

Sarbiya 52N 57E 696 2283

Serbilovo 56N 40E 157 515

Serbinka 51N 43E 181 593

Serbinka 52N 36E 246 807

Serbino-Vedenyapina 51N 43E 175 574

Serbino-Vedenyapino 51N 43E 175 574

Serbinovka 54N 73E 128 419

Serbinovskiy 49N 40E 183 600

Serbino 53N 40E 160 524

Serbino 58N 28E 55 180

Serbin 45N 38E 16 52

Serboyan 55N 83E 155 508

Serbilovo 56N 40E 157 515

Serbinka 51N 43E 181 593

Serbinka 52N 36E 246 807

Serbino-Vedenyapina 51N 43E 175 574

Serbino-Vedenyapino 51N 43E 175 574

Serbinovka 54N 73E 128 419

Serbinovskiy 49N 40E 183 600

Serbino 53N 40E 160 524

Serbino 58N 28E 55 180

Serbin 45N 38E 16 52

Serbiya 51N 37E 209 685

Serbiya 52N 57E 696 2283

Serbiya 64N 142E 564 1850

Serbolovo 57N 30E 94 308

Sorbala 60N 43E 111 364

Sirbishina 57N 60E 218 715

Sirbishino 57N 60E 218 715

Srbce 49N 17E 328 1076

Srbce 49N 16E 397 1302

Srbce 50N 15E 194 636

Srbetsch 50N 13E 330 1082

Srbeˇ 50N 13E 330 1082

Srbice 49N 13E 487 1597

Srbice 49N 13E 433 1420

Srbice 49N 14E 495 1624

Srbice 50N 13E 207 679

Srbsko 49N 14E 270 885

Srbsko 50N 15E 317 1040

Srbská Kamenice 50N 14E 318 1043

Srbská 50N 15E 354 1161

Srby 49N 13E 407 1335

Srby 49N 12E 399 1309

Srby 50N 14E 426 1397

Srbín 49N 14E 439 1440





Here are the locations of RASH toponyms in order of appearance:

Georgia:

Roshka, Georgia, Republic of Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 4.14, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
42.5464
Longitude
44.9228
Altitude (feet)
5935

Lat (DMS)
42° 32' 47N
Long (DMS)
44° 55' 22E
Altitude (meters)
1808


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=42.5464&long=44.9228&name=Roshka&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=5935



Roshka-Khorkhi, Gora, Georgia, Republic of Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 4.76, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
42.5692
Longitude
44.8258
Altitude (feet)
9767

Lat (DMS)
42° 34' 9N
Long (DMS)
44° 49' 33E
Altitude (meters)
2976


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=42.5692&long=44.8258&name=Roshka%2dKhorkhi%2c%20Gora&cty=Georgia%2c%20Republic%20of&alt=9767



From here, the Serbs move to two directions one NORTHEAST towards the Urals, the other NORTHWEST towards Central and Eastern Europe.



Russia:

(behind the Urals)

Rashkina, Russia Page

Latitude
59.9500
Longitude
61.5833
Altitude (feet)
131

Lat (DMS)
59° 57' 0N
Long (DMS)
61° 34' 60E
Altitude (meters)
39


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=59.9500&long=61.5833&name=Rashkina&cty=Russia&alt=131



Here is where there is a cluster of Serb toponyms as well. This must have been where this Serb tribe settled for a period of time. But then, one branch moved EASTBOUND deep into Siberia... to the coast of the Sea of Japan...

Rashkino, Russia Page

Latitude
43.6667
Longitude
131.7167
Altitude (feet)
456

Lat (DMS)
43° 40' 0N
Long (DMS)
131° 43' 0E
Altitude (meters)
138


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=43.6667&long=131.7167&name=Rashkino&cty=Russia&alt=456

Here we find two cities named Serbia and two named after Rashka.



Ukraine:

Rashkovichi, Ukraine Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 4.02, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
52.1053
Longitude
34.0717
Altitude (feet)
620

Lat (DMS)
52° 6' 19N
Long (DMS)
34° 4' 18E
Altitude (meters)
188


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=52.1053&long=34.0717&name=Rashkovichi&cty=Ukraine&alt=620







Rashkov, Ukraine Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.08, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
48.5000
Longitude
26.3000
Altitude (feet)
856

Lat (DMS)
48° 30' 0N
Long (DMS)
26° 18' 0E
Altitude (meters)
260


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=48.5000&long=26.3000&name=Rashkov&cty=Ukraine&alt=856



Rashkov, Ukraine Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.26, which is greater than 3.

Latitude

Longitude
25.4167
Altitude (feet)
1003

Lat (DMS)
0° 0' 0S
Long (DMS)
25° 25' 0E
Altitude (meters)
305


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi? lat=48.7333&long=25.4167&name=Rashkov&cty=Ukraine&alt=1003

Rashkuv, Ukraine Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.30, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
48.7333
Longitude
25.4167
Altitude (feet)
1003

Lat (DMS)
48° 43' 60N
Long (DMS)
25° 25' 0E
Altitude (meters)
305


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=48.7333&long=25.4167&name=Rashkuv&cty=Ukraine&alt=1003

Rashovka, Ukraine Page

Latitude
50.2167
Longitude
33.9000
Altitude (feet)
321

Lat (DMS)
50° 13' 0N
Long (DMS)
33° 53' 60E
Altitude (meters)
97


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.2167&long=33.9000&name=Rashovka&cty=Ukraine&alt=321

Raska, Ukraine Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.59, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
50.7500
Longitude
29.6000
Altitude (feet)
452

Lat (DMS)
50° 45' 0N
Long (DMS)
29° 36' 0E
Altitude (meters)
137


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.7500&long=29.6000&name=Raska&cty=Ukraine&alt=452



Poland:

We see a row of Serb toponyms throughout northern Poland and Russia. It is likely that when the Volga Serbs split into two separate tribes moving in two separate directions, the row of Serb toponyms moving through northern Russia and Poland and Ukraine may have been the route taken by this westbound group of Volga Serbs to meet up wit the first group of Serbs which immediately moved from the Caucasus into Central Europe.

Rasy, Poland Page

Very abbreviated output: load average is 19.24, which is greater than 3 (weather) and 8 (nearby links).

Latitude
51.4167
Longitude
19.3833
Altitude (feet)
734

Lat (DMS)
51° 25' 0N
Long (DMS)
19° 22' 60E
Altitude (meters)
223


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=51.4167&long=19.3833&name=Rasy&cty=Poland&alt=734



Raszczyce, Poland Page

Very abbreviated output: load average is 15.64, which is greater than 3 (weather) and 8 (nearby links).

Latitude
50.1167
Longitude
18.3000
Altitude (feet)
826

Lat (DMS)
50° 7' 0N
Long (DMS)
18° 18' 0E
Altitude (meters)
251


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.1167&long=18.3000&name=Raszczyce&cty=Poland&alt=826



Raszelki, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 6.22, which is greater than 3.

Latitude

Longitude
18.7500
Altitude (feet)
396

Lat (DMS)
0° 0' 0S
Long (DMS)
18° 45' 0E
Altitude (meters)
120


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi? lat=51.7500&long=18.7500&name=Raszelki&cty=Poland&alt=396



Raszewo, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.28, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
52.4667
Longitude
20.2667
Altitude (feet)
406

Lat (DMS)
52° 28' 0N
Long (DMS)
20° 16' 0E
Altitude (meters)
123


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=52.4667&long=20.2667&name=Raszewo&cty=Poland&alt=406

Raszewy, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 5.22, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
51.7167
Longitude
17.1500
Altitude (feet)
364

Lat (DMS)
51° 43' 0N
Long (DMS)
17° 8' 60E
Altitude (meters)
110


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=51.7167&long=17.1500&name=Raszewy&cty=Poland&alt=364

Raszewy, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 4.26, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
52.0833
Longitude
17.6000
Altitude (feet)
269

Lat (DMS)
52° 4' 60N
Long (DMS)
17° 36' 0E
Altitude (meters)
81


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=52.0833&long=17.6000&name=Raszewy&cty=Poland&alt=269

Raszkówek, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.40, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
51.7167
Longitude
17.7333
Altitude (feet)
456

Lat (DMS)
51° 43' 0N
Long (DMS)
17° 43' 60E
Altitude (meters)
138


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=51.7167&long=17.7333&name=Raszk%f3wek&cty=Poland&alt=456

Raszków, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 4.61, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
50.4833
Longitude
16.5000
Altitude (feet)
1522

Lat (DMS)
50° 28' 60N
Long (DMS)
16° 30' 0E
Altitude (meters)
463


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.4833&long=16.5000&name=Raszk%f3w&cty=Poland&alt=1522

Raszków, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.69, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
50.5833
Longitude
19.9333
Altitude (feet)
974

Lat (DMS)
50° 34' 60N
Long (DMS)
19° 55' 60E
Altitude (meters)
296


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.5833&long=19.9333&name=Raszk%f3w&cty=Poland&alt=974

Raszków, Poland Page

Latitude
51.7167
Longitude
17.7333
Altitude (feet)
456

Lat (DMS)
51° 43' 0N
Long (DMS)
17° 43' 60E
Altitude (meters)
138


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=51.7167&long=17.7333&name=Raszk%f3w&cty=Poland&alt=456

Raszowa, Poland Page

Latitude
50.3833
Longitude
18.1667
Altitude (feet)
590

Lat (DMS)
50° 22' 60N
Long (DMS)
18° 10' 0E
Altitude (meters)
179


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.3833&long=18.1667&name=Raszowa&cty=Poland&alt=590

Raszowa, Poland Page

Abbreviated output: load average is 3.14, which is greater than 3.

Latitude
50.6000
Longitude
18.1167
Altitude (feet)
577

Lat (DMS)
50° 36' 0N
Long (DMS)
18° 7' 0E
Altitude (meters)
175


http://www.calle.com/info.cgi?lat=50.6000&long=18.1167&name=Raszowa&cty=Poland&alt=577





-----------------------------------



Serbs



Serbs (in their language: Срби, transliteration: Srbi) are a south Slavic people which lives mostly in Serbia and Montenegro and Republika Srpska.







Population

Most Serbs live in the traditional Serbian heartland of Serbia and Montenegro. Large Serb populations also live in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, (where they are a constituent nation) principally in the Republika Srpska, one of the country's two largely autonomous entities). Much smaller Serb minorities also exist in Hungary, Macedonia and Romania.



The largest urban populations of Serbs in the former Yugoslavia are to be found in Belgrade, Novi Sad and Banja Luka in Bosnia. Abroad, Chicago has the largest Serb population followed by Toronto (note that Chicago has more Serbs than Novi Sad). Serbs constitute 63% of the population of Serbia, about 7 million people in all, and another 11 million people abroad claim Serbian descent.





Name

The etymology of the word "Serb" (root: Srb) is not known. Numerous theories exist, but neither could be said to be certain or even probable:



Some believe that the name is of Sarmatian origin. The main weakness of this theory is that because next to nothing is known about the Sarmatian language, virtually any word of unknown origin could be Sarmatian.

Some believe that the name is of Iranian origin. Of which word exactly is unclear.

Some believe that the name comes from the word sebar or peasant. However, as peasants did not exist in pre-medieval times while the name did, this seems unlikely.

Others say that the name comes from saborac or co-fighter. This could make sense but the words are too far apart. It is possible that saborac comes from sebar (that sebar sometimes meant co-fighter), which would make this theory more interesting but there is not much basis for this claim either.



However, one thing is certain: the name is very old. It is clearly a self-identification and not a given name as its root cannot be found in western European languages.



Regardless of the origin, the age and rarity of the name allows for certain historical conclusions based partly on it (for example, see Gordoservon below).

While Ukrainians and krajischniks (their names coming from Slavic word for "mark") or Slovaks and Slovenes (obvious variations of "Slavs") need not be related, Serbs and Sorbs may well be. Some have taken this to the extreme, creating theories that link Serbs with Sarmatians, Sirmium, Serbona, Siberia and so on.





History



Early references to "Serboi"

The tribal designation Serboi first appears in the 1st century Geography of Ptolemy (book 5, 9.21) to designate a tribe dwelling in Sarmatia, probably on the Lower Volga River. The name reappears, in the form Serbioi, in the 10th century scholar-emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitos' advice on running an empire, De administrando imperio (32.1-16), and in the continuation of Theophanes' history, the Theophanes Continuatus (288.17-20), usually in the same context as the Croatians, Zachlumians, and other peoples of Pannonia and Dalmatia.

Constantine VII gives an unlikely derivation of the name from the Latin 'servi', which he explains as 'douloi' (slaves) of Roman emperors. He relates that the Serboi are descended from the "unbaptized" (pagan) Serboi who lived in the place called Boiki near Frankia (Bohemia?), and that they claimed the protection of Emperor Heraclius (reigned 610-641), who settled them in the province of Thessalonica. Constantine's assertion is regarded with some skepticism by modern scholars; since the 19th century it has been commonly held that Serbs came to the Balkan peninsula in the 6th century. Kekaumenos, the 11th century Byzantine general, locates the Serboi on the Sava River (268.28), as does The Chronicle of Nestor, but this is not considered particularly reliable.



The Slavs came to the Balkans from a broad region in central and eastern Europe, which extended from the rivers Elbe in the west to the Dneiper in the east and from a point which touched the Carpathian mountains in the south and the river Niemen in the north. Their settlement in the Balkans appears to have taken place between 610 and 640. Different tribes settled in different parts of the Balkan peninsula, subsequently developing their distinct identities.



A mention of the Serbian name in 680 is about a city of Gordoservon in Asia Minor where "some Slavic tribes" have settled. Gordoservon appears to be a distorted spelling of Grad Srba, "City of Serbs" in Serbian.



The first certain data on the state of the Serboi, Serbia, dates to the 9th century. The episcopal lists of Leo VI mention bishops of Drougoubiteia and the Serbioi. Envoys of the Serboi arrived at the court of the Emperor Basil II, around 993.



In the 11th century there was probably a theme of Serbia: a seal impression of Constantine Diogenes, strategos of Serbia, is preserved. Around 1040 Theophilos Erotikos was the governor of the Serboi until he was expelled by Stefan Voislav, who reportedly conquered the territory of the Serboi and became its 'archon'. T. Wasilewski (1964) surmised that this theme was the same as Sirmium, whereas Dj. Radojcic (1966) thinks that it was Raska, only temporarily governed by the Byzantines.

------------------------



The name Avar is probably of Roman origin and it meant greedy people.

Root / lemma: au̯-7, au̯ē-, au̯ēi-

Meaning: `to like; to help, *desire'

German meaning: `gern haben'; daher einerseits `verlangen', andrerseits `begünstigen, hilfreich sein'

lat. aveō, -ēre (basis au̯ē[i]- as in preceding) ` be eager, have a wild desire, long for, desire ', avidus ` desiring, longing for; esp. greedy for money, avaricious ', avārus ` covetous, greedy ';

The eponym of Croat Hrvat people as they prefer to be called, stemmed probably from the royal title of an Avar tribal leader called Kovrat.

Kubrat (also Kurt, Kovrat, Kobrat, Kuvrat, Kubert, Korbat, Qobrat, Khudbard, Kuvarog, Krovat Kurbat and even Bashtu) was an early Bulgar ruler .

He was of the house of Dulo, Dub or Duba. He was of Avar paternal line, son of Balt-Avar Alburi, and Bulgar maternal line.

Kubrat was endorsed by Khan Sibir as the first king of Onogur , the 2nd Avar dynasty. Under his and his son Bayan's rule, Avaria grew to stretch from the Danube to the Volga rivers. In 619 CE he arrived as hostage in Constantinople and was soon baptized. His maternal uncle Organa (also Organ or Ornag) acted as regent over his tribe the Unogundur until he was old enough to rule. Kubrat established peace with Byzantium , due to his respect for Byzantine culture. He was buried near Poltava (from Balt-Avar, meaning Chief of Avars). His Kurgan was excavated in 1912 .

After Kubrat's death, Bezmer (also called Bezmes Bayan and Batbayan) inherited his rule, but soon other "sons" led factions of the once great empire in secession. The first, called Kotrag after the tribes he led, moved up the Volga to found the state of Great Bulgaria . Then Ultzindur or Balkor led a rebel Kuber tribe into Pannonia only to break away and move south. Atilkese, moved southwest from Ukraine with his horde to join these Bulgars south of the Danube and eventually founded the state of Bulgaria there. Emnetzur, who was based in Pannonia sought refuge from the ensuing chaos for his Altsikurs in the west with the Lombards.

-------------------

List of Bulgarian monarchs:

the two legendary rulers

• Avitokhol

• Irnik



• Gostun

• Organa, regent (? - 619)

the Dulo clan (? - 740, before 808 - 976)

• Kubrat (584-642)

• Benzmer (642-643)

• Asparukh (643-700)

• Tervel (701-718)

• name unknown, Tervel's successor (718-724)

• Sevar (725-740)

the Ukil clan (739-761, 764-766)

• Kormisosh (739-756)

• Vinekh (756-761)

• Subin (764-766)

• Umar (766)

------------

The word Avars can mean:

• The nomadic people that conquered the Hungarian Steppe in the early Middle Ages, the Eurasian Avars.

• The modern people of Caucasus, mainly of Dagestan, Caucasian Avars.

------------------

Bulgars (also Bolgars) a people of Central Asia, probably originally Pamirian, whose branches became slavicized and perhaps Turkic over time. The Turkic etymology most often given for their name is Bulgha meaning mixed, though it might also be from Varkun.

Bolgars moved west from the lower-middle Volga river AD to control the second Avar dynasty of Onoguria (in Ukraine) by the mid-7th century. The group then split into two.

--------------------

Onogur or Onoghur was the name of the European Avar federation spreading from Pannonia to the Kuban during their 2nd Dynasty under the rule of the Bolgar house of Dulo (also Dub or Dubo, of the Unogundur tribe of Bolgars) from 635-685CE. It was during this dynasty that Pannonia came to be known as Hungary by its neighbours. It is most frequently refered to as Great Bulgaria.

-------------------

The Danube (Bulgarian Dunav, German Donau, Greek Ister, Hungarian Duna, Latin Danubius, Romanian Dunărea, Serbian and Croatian Dunav, Slovak Dunaj, Ukrainian Dunay) is the second-longest river in Europe (the Volga being the longest).

It is the only major European river to flow from west to east. It rises in Germany in the Black Forest as two smaller rivers called Brigach and Breg, which join in Donaueschingen and are called Donau henceforth, flowing south-east for a distance of about 2850 km (1770 miles), to the Black Sea in Romania where the Danube Delta is.

----------------------

Constantinople (Roman name: Constantinopolis; Greek: Konstantinoupolis or Κωνσταντινούπολη) is the former name of the city of Istanbul in Turkey. Its original name was Byzantium (Greek: Byzantion or Bυζαντιον.

"Constantinople" is an Anglicization of Konstantinoupolis, which means "City of Constantine." The name is a reference to the Roman emperor of Illyrian descent Constantine I who made it the capital of the Roman Empire on May 11, 330 AD. Constantine named the city Nova Roma (New Rome), but that name never came into common use.

-------------------

Byzantium was an ancient Greek city, founded by colonists from Megara in 667 BC and named after their king Byzantas. The name "Byzantium" is a Latinization of the original Greek name Byzantion (Βυζάντιον).

After siding with Pescennius Niger against the victorious Septimius Severus the city was besieged and suffered extensive damage in AD 186.

-------------------

Poltava is a city and oblast center in the Poltava oblast of eastern Ukraine with some 315,000 inhabitants as of 1989.

The city belonged to Lithuania from the 14th century. Polish administration took over in 1569. In 1667 Poltava became part of Russia.

---------------------

A kurgan is a type of burial mound heaped over a burial chamber, often of wood, that was characteristic of Bronze Age nomadic peoples of the steppes, from the Altai to the Caucasus and Romania. Within the burial chamber at the heart of the kurgan, members of the elite were buried with grave goods and sacrificial offerings, sometimes including horse-sacrifices.

In 1956 Marija Gimbutas introduced her "Kurgan hypothesis" combining archaeology from the distinctive "Kurgan' burial mounds with linguistics to unravel the problem of the origins of Proto-Indo-European (PIE) speaking peoples. She tentatively named the culture "Kurgan" and traced its migrations into Europe. This hypothesis, and the act of bridging the disciplines, has had a significant impact on Indo-European research.

---------------------------------

Bulgaria, called today Volga Bulgaria or İdel Bolğaristan, is a historic state that existed between the 7th and 13th centuries around the confluence of the Volga and Kama Rivers. Today, Tatarstan is considered to be the descendant of Bulgaria (in terms of territory and people).

Bulgaria was founded by Kotrag Khan, son of Kubrat Khan around 660. The capital was Bulgar (Bolğar) city, located 160 km south of the modern city of Kazan, Tatarstan, today Bolğar town.

--------------------------------

Pannonia is an ancient Illyrian country bounded north and east by the Danube, conterminous westward with Noricum and upper Italy, and southward with Illyrian Dalmatia and upper Illyrian Moesia.

Its original inhabitants were the Illyrian Pannonii (sometimes called Paeonii by the Greeks). From the 4th century BC it was invaded by various Celtic tribes. Little is heard of Pannonia until 35 BC, when its inhabitants, allies of the Illyrian Dalmatians, were attacked by Augustus, who conquered and occupied Siscia (Sisak). The country was not, however, definitely subdued until 9 BC, when it was incorporated with Illyria, the frontier of which was thus extended as far as the Danube.

------------------------------------

Ukraine, formerly The Ukraine, is a country in eastern Europe which borders the Black Sea to the south, the Russian Federation to the east, Belarus to the north and Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova to the west. Its name derived from slav. kraina 'country' from earlier:

Proto-Slavic form: krajь

Page in Trubačev: XII 88-89

Old Church Slavic: krai `edge, end'

Russian: kraj `edge, country, land' [m jo]

Czech: kraj `edge, end, region' [m jo]

Slovak: kraj `edge, end, region' [m jo]

Polish: kraj `edge, country, land' [m jo]

Serbo-Croatian: krāj `edge, (dial.) bank, end, beginning' [m jo]

Slovene: kràj `edge, bank, end' [m jo]



--------------------------------------

It is very easy to identify Croats and Serbs as descendants of Avar and Sabar tribes. Avars were very proud of their name. They were so pathologically obsessed with their Avar identity that they added the suffix -ava to every German, Illyrian, or Greek city which they conquered. Of all Mongolian - Turkic savages who scorched Illyria, Thrace and Macedonia, only Huns in Illyrian Pannonia (numerically superior to Slavs) preserved their archaic language, although a huge part of their vocabulary is part of Pannonian substratum.

Although Sabars and Avars lost their ancient non-Indo European language against their Slavic subjects [the same fate suffered by Bulgars in Thrace], they would retain their Avar names.

If that was not enough Avars added the suffix -va, -vic to surnames of their children. Virtually all Serbs, Montenegrins, Croats, Slovenians, Bosnians, Slav Macedonians bear the hallmarks of Sabar, Avar ancestry by adding the Avar formant to their surname.

Albanians are exempt of the Avar custom of adding -va , -vic formant to their surname frequently found among the Slavs. Unfortunately many Illyrian cities in Koso-vo (earlier Dardania), Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and even in Albania (once invaded by Bulgarians and later Serbs) still bear the infamous Avar -va formant. But no Albanian words share the Avar suffixes. Morphologically speaking the suffix -va is unknown to Albanian dialects which preserve the grammatical code of the ancient Albanoi, an Illyrian dialect.



The phenomenon of conquering immigrant groups adopting the language of its surrounding subjects takes place when the subjugated population is culturally and numerically superior to their new rulers. The Scandinavian Normans adopted the Romance French language in Normandy, while their ruling kinsmen in England adopted Anglo-Saxon; the Germanic Franks, Merovingians and Carolingians adopted the Romance French language; the Nordic Visigoths adopted the Romance Spanish language; the Germanic Lombards adopted the Romance Italian language, and the Tungus Manchu adopted the Chinese language of their subjects. Slowly Mongol races would blend with Slavs who gained from the alien races not only their Asian name but also the slanted eyes, dark hair and such brutality unknown to mankind. Therefore Croats, Serbs and Bulgarians were those non-Indo European hordes that ravaged Europe but finally were defeated and lost their respective languages against superior Slavs. Yet the Mongolian venom still flowed in their veins as they prepared for the final slaughter - the carnage of one of the oldest Aryan people, the Illyrians.

---------------------------

The Caucasus

A high mountain range extending across the land between the Caspian and Black Seas, this region has collected a tremendously varied number of small enclaves of cultures who have found life on the steppes to the north or the semi-arid plateau regions to the south too inhospitable.


 
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Anonymous
(Login constantinus)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

No score for this post
April 12 2007, 7:41 AM 

Muslims will prevail

Muslim turks in Bulgaria count 2 million plus...and they have been living there for the last 1300 years even before the buglars came in from Asia.
Muslim turks have no rights, no privileges, and no voice in Bulgaria. There is discrimination, and hatred towards turks and minorities like roma and macedonians.
--------------
turks in bulgaria are 700 000.from those half donot practice islam, have cristian names and dont speak the turkish language



In Greeece and Macedonia, muslim turks are no better. They can't speak their language and they can't practice their religion freely. The greek government doesn't allow to build mosques in Greece, the same with bulgarian government
-----------------
they are educated in their ow language, they have mosques all over thrace (thousand),if they dont practice religion is beacuse urban muslim in greece find it neolithic....


...muslim believers want to pray..in Holy Month of Ramadan, they can't fast, as infidels eat in front of them, alcohol is sold freely in muslim regions, greek and bulgarian farmers send in their pigs to muslim areas for herding...this is outrageous. They are insulting our religion.

------------------------
muslim in thrace drink alchohol,too much if you ask me,they donot fast in majority and i can assure most of them eat juice hamburgers in the macdonalds and other restarants



Kosovo and Bosnia are even in worse condition.
------------------
a great part of bosniak are atheist,the majority are agnocigist


In the Balkans, under these conditions, we only have Albania and Turkey to support us and to defend ourselves against such racial discrimination. We seek the help of our turk brothers to free us from european, balkan tyrany and racism.
--------------
i wish you good luck to find few muslims in albania



Allah is with us..muslims of Balkans will prevail inshallah...they will become the majority in 15 years of time and we 'll see a third islamic country Kosovo inshalla after Bosnia and Albania...
-------------------
inshallah and mashalahh will not help you.allah exist only in your skull. a good phychologist will help you become healthy.bosniak and albanians are to busy living their lives to care about neolithic ideas of religius kind....

Allah Akbar
Ramadan Karim
------------------
yes yes when you see allah or any other god say to him i say yo

 
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Radovan
(Login Radovan93)

Re: Muslims of Balkans will prevail

No score for this post
October 1 2012, 8:51 PM 

wow muslims will only **** in their pants...or their uneducated, dirty thugs behave like raged animals like what they did in Libya, Pakistan and Yemen. Good Luck man...go and pray and fast but not in the Balkans, maybe in your beloved Turkey

 
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Radovan
(Login Radovan93)

Muslims of Balkans will prevail

No score for this post
July 6 2016, 11:15 AM 

well we are seeing Muslims' influx into Europe with the help of Turkey
That tells you something

 
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