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Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

February 18 2009 at 11:21 AM
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Carla Del Ponte  (Login CARLADELPONTE)
Albania Forum Mods Group

 



Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander





For a warrior king who had conquered most of the known world by the age of 33, Alexander the Great never flinched when it came to a fight. But even he might have been left powerless by a row in Greece over the location of a statue, carved in his likeness in 1972.



Seventeen years after its acquisition by the Greek culture ministry, the rendition of the military commander has been gathering dust in a basement storeroom because of fierce controversy over where to put the sculpture. Nationalist-minded politicians, on both sides of the spectrum, believe the statue "rightfully" belongs to a prominent square in the heart of ancient Athens. There, they say, the Macedonian king would not only receive maximum viewing but the reverence he deserves from a people who see themselves as his rightful descendants.



Had it not been for archaeologists, that might have happened. But the purveyors of Greece's past - a powerful lobby in this antiquities-rich country - have strongly resisted the move, saying Alexander came to the capital "as a conqueror". The row might have gone unnoticed had it not been for the recently reinvigorated intensity of the name dispute between Athens and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.



Since it proclaimed independence in 1991, Greece has contended that its neighbour's determination to call itself Macedonia has concealed territorial ambitions over its own province, which bears the same nomenclature. Relations between the two reached a new low last year when the ex-Yugoslav republic named its international airport and highway after Alexander the Great. They plummeted further when Athens blocked Macedonia's membership of Nato - and threatened to use its right of veto, again, to stop the ex-communist nation joining the EU.



Raising the bar further, a mayor in Skopje proposed last week that the Macedonian capital's main square be adorned with a "singing" statue of Alexander mounted on a horse.



By erecting the statue in a fountain that belted out tunes of the late Toe Proeski - the nation's most famous crooner who was killed in a car accident in Croatia in 2007 - the nation, she said, would give celebration to its two most famous sons, in a way that Greece never could.



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This message has been edited by CARLADELPONTE on Feb 21, 2009 11:10 AM


 
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Kostas the Makedon
(Login KostasKariotis)

Status and Statue of Alexander.

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February 18 2009, 11:49 PM 

The Greeks have the right to argue about the statue and the status of Alexander. He was one of us , he was us!!
The statue belongs in Thessaloniki, that for us real Makedones (Greeks), is our city!

We still bear the same names with him and his peers of that time. It is so pathetic for the Fyromians to celebrate as their progenitor a Greek and as the modern hero a Slav!

So Vlade, quit calling yourself with an Italian name because a lot of things can happen to you sotto un ponte!

Get it dummy?

Kostas



Kostas the Macedon ("Always Guarding Thermopylai"- Kavafes).

 
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Carla Del Ponte
(Login CARLADELPONTE)
Albania Forum Mods Group

Please refrain from uncivil behaviour

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February 21 2009, 8:52 AM 

Dear Greek friend,



Thank you for your interesting comments reg. Alexander The Great.



However as a Balkan forum moderator and a woman I would appreciate if you refrain from primitive personal attacks and threats.



Such behaviour blatantly violates the Balkan forum rules and is unacceptable between civilized people.



It is the least I can expect from a representative of the nation/country which is considered by many as a crucible of European culture and civilization.



Kind regards,

Carla







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This message has been edited by CARLADELPONTE on Feb 21, 2009 11:09 AM


 
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akritas
(Login akritas2)
Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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February 22 2009, 1:10 AM 

Carla your article is written from the known Unhellene British reporter Helena Smith. She doesnt mention nothing as about who Greek archaelogist claim these that she writes in his propocative article. So when you bring in an Greek forum these un-hellenic views must be prepare that you see reactions from the Greek members.

 
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Civitate
(Login Civitate)

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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February 22 2009, 2:51 AM 

akritas wrote:
So when you bring in an Greek forum these un-hellenic views must be prepare that you see reactions from the Greek members.



Agree with akritas.

 
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Carla Del Ponte
(Login CARLADELPONTE)
Albania Forum Mods Group

Let us dexchange our views in a civil manner

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February 22 2009, 12:20 PM 

Dear Akritas, dear guests on the Greek forum,

The article in question was written in a civilized, cultured manner.

We do not have to agree or even like one another but in the name of democracy (introduced to the Europeans by Greeks) I defend every journalist's right to exercise her/his right to freedom of speech/expression.

I have no problems with constructive criticism however I find unacceptable personal attacks addressed to me (my gender or country of origin).
I never had any intention to insult anyone and as the only all-Balkan moderator I certainly do not deserve this kind of treatment from some irresponsible gusts on this forum.

I hope we cleared the air,

Best regards,
Carla


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Arxileas
(Login Arxileas)
Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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February 23 2009, 4:31 PM 

Greeting Carla. As you may have noticed I was away.

A question, what was changed when you edited your own post three days later ? So I can have a clearer picture on what's happened here my self.

Thanks.





    
This message has been edited by Arxileas on Feb 23, 2009 4:32 PM


 
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Carla Del Ponte
(Login CARLADELPONTE)
Albania Forum Mods Group

Clarification

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February 24 2009, 2:40 AM 

Yasu, my friend,


I forgot to sign myself. "ANONYMOUS" was replaces with "Carla Del Ponte".
Zetaman can confirm it: he has record of all edited or even deleted posts.


Regrds,
Carla

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Kostas the Makedon
(Login KostasKariotis)

Greeks argue

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February 24 2009, 10:25 PM 

Carle,
first of all we are not friends and we will never be unless you and your Slavo/Bulgarian kin stop the propagation of lies and insults to us Greeks in our forum.

To us Greeks, Alexander is a revered figure, more so than Jesus or anyone else. So when you come and tell me that you the Slavs are going to treat his memory better than us I will take personal offence. To you, his name is a political ploy. To me, I am of his blood and I would have laid you down if you were a man and told me this to my face. So you are getting off very easy considering the crap you are writting here. As far as threats are concerned, there is none larger than the one that you are insiduously are repeating here against the true descendants of the ancient Makedones the modern Greeks.

Putting lipstic on to a pig does not improve its nature. It is still a pig. Masking your propaganda under so called "Civilized discussion" it does not improve the context.

I am sure your name is not "del Ponte' = "of a bridge" so show your real Slavic name and do not be embarassed of it!

You do not see me masking up my name. Do you?

So quit pretending and enjoy your "civilized" way which no-one has seen yet from you Fyromians or Scopjiens.

The end!

Kostas the Macedon ("Always Guarding Thermopylai"- Kavafes).

 
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Carla Del Ponte
(Login CARLADELPONTE)
Albania Forum Mods Group

I rest my case

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February 25 2009, 10:48 AM 

Dear Akritas - my fellow moderator on the Balkan forums,

I think the last post confirms my concerns addressed in my previous posts under this thread.
Of course I am not going to stoop to this level of "debating" with the person in question.
Style and the language of this vicious verbal diarrhea is the best manifestation of her/his intellectual and moral standards.


I hope with my handling of the matter I have proven my point.

Best regards to you and all responsible and cultured guests/users on the Balkan Forums,

Carla

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Kostas the Makedon
(Login KostasKariotis)

Greeks argue over Status and Statue of Alexander.

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February 28 2009, 12:54 AM 

Carla,
your last reply totally tore me apart. Your eloquence, your civility, your CULTURED manner are trully something to behold.
After all you are a civilized guest that does not resort to violence over the internet and behind the keybaord(Uh? how is that threatening?) but instead with "civilized" inflaming remarks and posts insult us here in our own forum.

But that is civilized because you are trying to debate. Of course you want us to sit idle and have you spew garbage about things that we hold sacred. We can debate things that are debatable, but for you (I do not even know even if you are a woman)to try to compare the way we Greeks feel about Alexander vs the Fyromians, that is a insult that I take very seriously.

If you Carla are to post articles like the one above, you better be ready for anything! If you do not like it you can always leave the Greek forum to us Greeks. No one invited you here.
And quit crying to the moderator. You brought this on you with your posting. You did not see me go into your Fyromian forum that you call Macedonia(even more insulting) and see me spew garbage!

I read your posts in the rest of the forums and are as insulting to us Greeks there, as the one you posted here. So do not talk about civility and quit lying to yourself about being civilized, you are not!
For, if you were you would have known the truth about the Makedones and you would have cringed in placing such a post in a Greek forum!

You Fyromians have a long way to go before you even think about calling us Greeks uncivilized.
But are you a Fyromian or Italian. Your sign-on puzzles me!

Later.




Kostas the Macedon ("Always Guarding Thermopylai"- Kavafes).

 
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Carla Del Ponte
(Login CARLADELPONTE)
Albania Forum Mods Group

Greek culture-symbol of democracy and tolerance

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February 28 2009, 2:27 PM 

Dear Greek friends,

I am glad that most of the guests on this forum live up to the great traditions and achievements of ancient Greek civilization/culture namely: tolerance, democracy and freedom of expression.

Everybody is entitled to constructive criticism of anybody's views on these forums however any personal attack on an author is unacceptable and constitutes a blatant violation of The Balkan Forum Rules.


Dear Kostas,
It is not my intention to upset anybody on this forum.
I do not target your nationality, gender, age, social status or race. I object to rude, discriminatory and threatening comments you had expressed in your previous posts.

Kind regards,
Carla








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akritas
(Login akritas2)
Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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February 28 2009, 4:20 PM 

Carla by posting it this un-hellenic article in an Greek forum you target my cultural identity and with your answers target my intelligence mentality . At least accept your mistake and please be more cautious in the future. You are moderator and not a flamerator.

 
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Arxileas
(Login Arxileas)
Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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February 28 2009, 4:59 PM 

Ok I have missed some action on here. Sorry I am busy sun baking at the beaches these days !

Now lets clear something here. Firstly this topic its self may violate the Balkan forum rules.

See rules here;
http://p100.ezboard.com/fbalkansfrm80.showMessage?topicID=17.topic


This is a reminder of the rules and simplifing them further

1)NO Provocations (that means no starting of provocative subjects which might be one step away from turning themselves to an all out flame war)




This topic should have been at the Fyromian forum and not in here.

 
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akritas
(Login akritas2)
Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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February 28 2009, 9:38 PM 

As mod I voting that this topic must be closed and not delete.

 
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Arxileas
(Login Arxileas)
Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Greeks argue over status and statue of Alexander

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March 1 2009, 1:55 AM 

As mod I voting that this topic must be closed and not delete.

I vote the same. And am sure the other Greek mods would vote the same.

Locked.



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