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Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

March 3 2009 at 10:29 AM
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Carla Del Ponte  (Login CARLADELPONTE)
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Unidentified individuals attacked three tourist coaches carrying Greek tourists at Ochris, Skopje on Sunday evening. Foreign Ministry spokesman Giorgos Koumoutsakos denounced the attack strongly, asking from FYROM's (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) authorities to protect the Greek citizens, who visit FYROM.
"We condemn in the strongest way the organized attack from unknown individuals against the Greek visitors and their property," stated the spokesman.

"Unfortunately, such actions, which affect the communication between the two peoples, are the result of nationalism and bigotry turned against Greece, promoted by Skopje lately", said Mr Koumoutsakos. "We demand from FYROM to protect the Greek citizens, who are visiting their country; we also demand that the culprits are arrested and punished for yesterday's unprovoked attack."

On Sunday evening, about 20-30 individuals attacked three Greek tourist busses that were parked in the centre of Ochris, waiting for the Greek tourists to return from their excursion.

As per the local media, the culprits used spray to write on the coaches "Macedonia", "United Macedonia" and "Alexander the Great".

However, the Greek tourists added that the culprits had thrown against them pieces of wood and stones to one of the coaches, causing additional damage.

According to the local media, may Ochris inhabitants condemn the incident; as such actions defame their city's image.

Meanwhile, the Ochris Mayor denounced the incident, apologising for the incident to the Greek Liaison Committee in Skopje at the Greek consulate in Monastirie responsible for Financial and Commercial Affairs.


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Carla Del Ponte
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Another incident

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June 23 2009, 2:34 AM 

The Greek opposition party PASOK has harshly slammed the government over its decision to allow Macedonian Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki to arrive in Greece by a governmental plane reading Republic of Macedonia for the summit on the island of Corfu on June 27th and 28th according to the Greek Ta Nea daily
According to PASOK such actions undermine Greeces stance in the name dispute with Skopje and create dangerous precedents. Diplomatic sources say that such a governmental decision sends wrong messages to Skopje, at that at a moment when UN special mediator in the name row Matthew Nimitz prepares an initiative.
The daily recalls that on June 13th 2008 President Karolos Papoulias and the Greek diplomacy refused the official visit of the former FYROM President Branko Crvenkovski because of his intention to use a governmental plane, with the countrys constitutional name written on it.

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Epicurus
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Re: Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

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June 23 2009, 6:16 PM 

Unidentified individuals attacked three tourist coaches carrying Greek tourists at Ochris, Skopje on Sunday evening. Foreign Ministry spokesman Giorgos Koumoutsakos denounced the attack strongly, asking from FYROM's (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) authorities to protect the Greek citizens, who visit FYROM.
"We condemn in the strongest way the organized attack from unknown individuals against the Greek visitors and their property," stated the spokesman.

Fanatics on both sides need to realise that this name issue is a relatively minor issue.
I know that sentence alone will cause hysteria, but consider what is happening in Iran right now and compare it to this name matter; a matter that will be solved by courtesy and diplomacy in the due course of time.

Negotiations are taking place and only under these negotiations will a resolution come about. Violence and hostility between people ultimately achieves nothing. It will not weight on the negotiations, it will not sway the UN. It does nothing - but I suspect the nationalists know this much, at least the smart ones (if ever their was an oxymoron). Some people just want a forum for their bigotry, racism, hate and ethnocentrism and this topic gives it to them.

Nationalists need to come to realise their own sense of "racial superiority" is a delusion, and their simplistic views of their antagonists as evil and inferior is also a delusion. This view is self-serving and based on no facts. It is just a vehicle to enable your lesser vestigial traits you inherited from apes; being clanism.

The Greek opposition party PASOK has harshly slammed the government over its decision to allow Macedonian Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki to arrive in Greece by a governmental plane reading Republic of Macedonia for the summit on the island of Corfu

I wondered why he would say such a thing (for merely a microsecond) then realised that Greece was the birth place of the sophists. Greece was the land that recognised the phenomena called demagogy. I do not know what Papandreou's personal views are on this issue, nor the consensus of his party. But what I do know is that by taking a strident, shrill and hysterical tone to all things regarding the name issue - guarantees political success and the attainment of votes. Fearmongering is an unfortunately effective political tool, hence why he has been going on about "dangerous precedent".
I never realised that extending the olive-branch was a "dangerous precedent", I always found it noble.

Looking at this issue as impartially as permissible; letting the plane land (irrespective of branding) is the right thing to do!
By granting this concession, by relaxing some of the issues causing hostility - Greece has extended the olive branch to North-Macedonia and invites a resolution.
You really do have to give a little to get a little.
However, the building of yet another Alexander the Great statue in North-Macedonia goes to show the power of demagogy and the lacking commitment of some to finding peace.

The only reasons I can fathom for being against the landing of the MAT plane would be:
(I) Irrational hatred of North-Macedonians (i.e. Nationalism),
(II) Demagogues using this as an opportunity for political gain.

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

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June 24 2009, 3:09 AM 

panos01 why you pretend to be a neutral party? I see a fanatic at work here in your posts

 
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Epicurus
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Re: Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

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June 24 2009, 5:14 AM 

panos01 why you pretend to be a neutral party? I see a fanatic at work here in your posts

How lazy. Rather than challenging the points in my post, you would rather set up a faulty premise and dismiss what I say ad hominem.

I see no fanaticism in my post and no intelligence in yours.
You have dismissed an entire post in one sentence, simply because it does not comply with your deluded nationalist agenda.

I happen to remember you from a while back, you're a fanatic who wants to block North-Macedonia at every turn because you object to the use of the name Macedonia at all.
Here you have a post titled "happy veto day" and you want Greece to resort to total isolation of North-Macedonia.

I advocate comprise and diplomacy, condemn violence.
Recognise how political parties on both sides use the name issue to their own advantage.
And I congratulate Greece on allowing the MAT plane to land as it is an important step to working toward compromise. Instead of challenging these points you take the fools way out, by resorting to sophistry.

Whist it is true, neutral parties do not exist. I am more neutral than yourself and the other fanatics who shout in shrill tones that their side is correct and not one-inch of concession will be given.

This is an issue which really needs to be handled by mature adults, it is up to us on both sides to calm the children lest they stir further bad blood.

 
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Civitate
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Re: Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

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June 24 2009, 7:56 AM 

How is the Greek side being fanatic? Your messages appear pro skopjian & one sided. Youre not acknowledging the skopjians lack of interest for a solution to the name issue & there obsession to the ancient Greek Macedonians.

 
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Epicurus
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Re: Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

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June 24 2009, 8:46 AM 

How is the Greek side being fanatic? Your messages appear pro skopjian & one sided. Youre not acknowledging the skopjians lack of interest for a solution to the name issue & there obsession to the ancient Greek Macedonians.

I never said the Greek side was being fanatical.
As I never would of resorted to that level of simplicity. I recognise that there are people who are Greek and happen to be fanatics when it comes to this issue. I did not brand all Greeks by that stigma.

There is also no "Greek side" there are many views held by Greeks on this, so to say there is one side is one-sided.

And I am acknowledging the intransigence from North-Macedonian leadership when it comes to finding a compromise.
To quote myself: "However, the building of yet another Alexander the Great statue in North-Macedonia goes to show the power of demagogy and the lacking commitment of some to finding peace."

In no way are my messages pro-North-Macedonian or one-sided. They appear that way to Greek nationalists though, who are uncompromising fanatics and cannot divorce emotion from logic on this issue.

If you would care to READ what I have written you will see how I have congratulated Greece's efforts for peace. I have criticised nationalists on BOTH sides. As well as criticised political opportunism on BOTH sides.

Now would you care to give a specific example of what you find one-sided, or by one-sided do you mean I'm not being one-sided for your side, thereby being wrong?

 
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Civitate
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Re: Incident against Greek Tourists in Skoplje

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July 5 2009, 3:54 PM 

Why the hysteria & down playing the name issue as a minor thing? The name issue is what its all is about.

Greece is the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's (FYROM)" largest trading partner, the most robust economic power in the region and a strategic player in the international arena. FYROM's foreign policy is constantly violating and blatantly pushing for the recognition of their state with the Greek name of "Macedonia" The term Macedonia was used for the first time in Yugoslavia on April 30, 1944. And, in 1991, this southern Yugoslav region declared independence as the Republic of Macedonia. Greece objected Skopje declaring everything Macedonian belonged to the new state including, Greek territory, history and symbols so the veto is justified happy.gif

Why are you so labeling the veto as a bad thing? Greek history & the name "Macedonia", were not, are not, and can never become a negotiable commodity all the Greeks are united on this stance.

It is in FYROM's best interest, economically and politically, to acknowledge the truth & stop playing the sore losers.

 
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