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Islam's attack on Democracy

March 31 2009 at 2:02 PM
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Epicurus  (Login panos01)

 
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52P60220090326


Congratulations to the enemies of freedom, democracy and human rights. The friends of bigotry, hatred and oppression.

A Machiavellian law has been passed by several Islamic nations which effectively allows them to punish blasphemy. A law which will allow Islamofascists in places like Pakistan to punish or even murder; apostates, heretics, journalists or authors who question historical facts in the Quran, women rights activists, homosexuals or protesters for exercising the most important right we have - the right to free expression.

Islam's assault on religious freedom and freedom of expression goes too far and attacks us in our deepest place. I hope Democracies in the West do not tolerate this anti-freedom and anti-human rights injunction and make a stand against these enemies of reason and human decency.

I have a copy of the Quran in Arabic which I was gifted which I now have inserted a Mohammed-Danish-cartoon-bookmark to symbolically show that no belief is so sacred that it has the right to suppress my rights because its feelings may get hurt. We live in an age of diverse culture and faith and you cannot demand both the freedom from oppression and the right to enforce it, which is exactly what this law does.

Out of consolation for the millions who will be oppressed under these bizarre and anti-democratic laws, bellow are links to materials which these law would seek to criminalise and enforce punishments of barbaric and anti-democratic proportion.

Mohammed Images:
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/jyllands-posten_cartoons/

Evolution is a fact, Creationism is myth:
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html

Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby:
http://glrl.org.au/

Atheist Sites:
www.Richarddawkins.net
www.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula

Errors in the Quran:
www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/haman.htm

Christian site explaining fallibility of Quran:
http://bibleandquran.com/quran-word-of-god9.htm


 
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Niklianos
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Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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April 1 2009, 4:47 PM 

The reality of the matter is that Islam is not the problem! The problem is the people who create their own interpretations of it for their own agendas! I know many Muslims who are the most peaceful and loving people you will ever meet and they do not interpret the Koran in the same manner as the extremist!

One could argue that Christianity is the most violent and suppressive religion in the history of the world. In one sense they would be correct, but when one looks at the fundamental of Christianity one would notice that is not the case. In reality it is the people who USED Christianity for their own agendas who were the violent ones.

There is no difference today between an extremist Muslim and an Extreme Religious Righter Christian! An extreme Christian in the U.S wants to create a religious nation where their interpretations formulate the laws of the land. Just watch the documentary 'Jesus Camp'! They would love to force people to where a scarlet A, to stone sinners to death and to force their beliefs on everyone else who believes differently than them. They belief in 'Pro-Life' but at the same time they have absolutely no problem killing a doctor or nurse who helps perform abortions! How Pro-Life is that? How Christian is that? How violent is that?

People really need to stop saying Islam this and Islam that, because Islam and Christianity in their fundamental teachings are both peaceful religions and it is only those who use and manipulate the holy scriptures for their own agendas who are the evil and bad ones! I say this and I am not a follower of either religion!

 
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Niklianos
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Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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April 1 2009, 8:16 PM 

I almost forgot! What about the Christian Religious Right and their attack on Democracy and Freedom? They also want to force everyone to conform to their beliefs and to throw all previously laws that have nothing to do with 'Gods Laws' out the window! A Democracy is about equal rights among the citizens of the nation and the citizens abiding by those laws. If they do not have equal rights and others take those rights away then the Democracy fails!

 
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Epicurus
(Login panos01)

Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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April 2 2009, 9:40 AM 

You've really missed the point entirely. And wondered away from the topic as well.

Firstly, I do not accept the "perversion of religion argument" and this idea is unrelated to the topic as it was not 'extremists' but Islamic states that voted for this anti-democratic and anti-freedom law. As it will be the states who enforce the disproportionate, bizarre and anti-democratic punishments for mere blasphemy, or perceived blasphemy. I will elaborate much more on this in a new topic, so this one does not get contaminated.

Secondly, I do not accept that Islam can be compared to Christianity in this 21st century, historically is a different matter though. It is painfully obvious that in the 21st century, Islam poses a greater threat to our survival that Christianity or Judaism. One needs only to look at Iran and it's death-to-America and Israel theology and its race for nuclear arms to obtain those means. But I do concede Christianity does have a lot to still answer for - I have seen Jesus Camp, and the reality is there is a large minority who think this way (I have also seen Expelled, and the continuous stream of stupidity that bountifully flows from the Vatican); but that minority is nothing compared to the so-called moderate Muslims who attend death-to-America rallies held weekly - even in Britain, and the so-called moderates who will not let there wives leave home without a male escort (even if this means the 4 year old son is to go with them).

I am late for a meeting, but will elaborate much more on this issue soon as democracy and freedom of expression are issues close to my heart.

The topic is that Islamic states via this anti-blasphemy and anti-free speech law; have hijacked democracy, have suppressed human rights and passed anti-freedom laws.
If you or others do not think this law does that, or think this law is ok out of the misguided idea of "religious respect" I will be doing all I can to try and change your thinking on that point.

 
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Niklianos
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Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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April 2 2009, 7:07 PM 

I'm quite certain I understood your point. To me it is irrelevant as to whether or not a government of a country has passed those laws because you must look at who has the influence to affect those law changes. The problem is, is that the large minority has A LOUD VOICE and heavy financing. Even in the U.S just look at the things the religious right(large minority) has tried to push over the past 15 years on the American public. They have forced a ban on ALL stem cell research even though the majority of stem cell research has nothing to do with aborted fetus's. They have tried to overturn Row-vs-Wade. They have tried to force prayer in schools on everyone. They have tried to force creationism on everyone. They even tried to force everyone to follow their ideal of marriage saying that it was a Christian institution, even though marriage has existed in all cultures throughout history 1000's of years before the Judaio-Christian religion ever came into existence. They even put all their efforts into having Bush elected in order to promote their own form of Christianity. They claimed that he was divinely inspired.

Are these actions by a large minority not detrimental to Democracy as well? Do they not restrict the rights of the citizens of democratic nations?

Yes, I do not support or condone Pakistan or any other Muslim nation adopting such extreme religious morays and making them the law of democratic nations but I would still argue that it is not Islam itself but Christianity as well. It is not the secular governments who want to change the laws but the large minority with the loud voice and heavy financing.

As for the Moderate Muslims they are not basing their arguments against the west on their religious beliefs but rather on a political and cultural basis. They look at the involvement of the U.S and England in the Middle East and Near East as an attack on Islamic Societies and their own way of life. These view did not become forefront through all Muslim nations until after the invasion of Iraq. Even thought they view it as a cultural war the one thing that ties most people of that region together is Islam, so of course they will use that as a rallying point. Do you think that if the Western Powers had never stepped foot or manipulated and controlled the Middle and Near East that the Extremist Muslims and their agenda would have ever had a place to come to fruition? I highly doubt it. Our meddling in the region for so long with no consideration for the local peoples has caused this current political and religious environment. So it is quite natural that they should use the one platform which ties them all together, Islam, to stand up to what they consider an attack on their various traditions and cultures.

 
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Niklianos
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Greece Forum Mods Group

Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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April 28 2009, 7:27 PM 

Hey Panos,

I apologize if my response came across as personal. I was not trying to present it in that manner, instead it was simply a response and a debate on the matter.

As for the moderator position I would have no problem with you becoming a mod. I only said no because there are already three in here. There is also the matter of Carla who has come in here trying to manipulate things. If you keep up on her post you will see what our problem with her is. She assumes that because I defend Hellenism against the likes of the Skopjians that I am a ultra-Nationalist, etc. If we needed more mods I would gladly nominate you for the position. Also, as you may have noticed this forum (actually all forums in here) are quite slow and there is actually an over abundance of mods for the amount of traffic we have.

If you want a good forum to enter which is still slowly building up come to www.hellenicplanet.com. There are all manners of discussion in there and a variety of Greeks and beliefs. just e-mail me at greek1370@hotmail.com to let me know if you have signed up and I will let the owner know to allow your membership!

Yia.

 
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Epicurus
(Login panos01)

Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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May 3 2009, 4:43 PM 

I don't quite see how this is on-topic. As the issue is that Islamic governments have passed, via the UN, a resolution which contradicts in spirit and form, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It reinforces to these regimes that killing, detaining indefinitely, or even torturing blasphemers, heretics and apostates is ok. It will allow for archaic dogma to intervene in peoples personal freedoms that no state has the right to infringe; no matter what bizarre faith they practice. The key word in "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" is universal there is no such thing as Islamic human rights, or Christian human rights. The right to free sexual identity, to free conscience and free speech is a universal right; these regimes will punish free-speech, they will ban criticism of their religion and their rule. It will effectively enforce sharia, and will not allow any opposition by fending it off with claims of blasphemy.

Of course the irony is these regimes seek the protection of the UDHR whilst demanding it not apply to them in the same breath.

As to your issue raised about the religious right in America.
I make it a point to watch Hanity, O'Reilly and Glenn Beck on a regular basis just to see what the faith-heads in the worlds only superpower are doing. I've seen Jesus Camp and am well aware of the Discovery Institute.
I am also aware of the examples where the religious right has managed to act as if the constitution didn't exist, or they were free to interpret it as they please. A 20 year old teacher was just fired recently for "violating the first amendment" when he called creationism "religious, superstitious nonsense". I do not need to explain to you why that phrase is exactly accurate and absolutely ok to utter in a western-democracy, but the problem is he was fired for exercising his first amendment right, not violating it. I follow these things carefully and am well aware at how anti-democratic and anti-feedom the religious right are.

However, even in light of "Intelligent Design" or the constant anti-atheist, anti-Obama, anti-free rights, anti-intellectual crap that fox news pumps out to an audience of almost 50% of Americans - I still see a bigger threat to humanity as a collective from Islam and not Christianity. The faith-based initiatives taken by the religious right, the stupefying of school-children and of science as a discipline, of gay and women's rights and the intolerance to difference; live in the shadows of the Islamic faith-based initiatives of Female genital mutilation, honour killings, murdering of apostates, calls to and actions of violence over any form of criticism.

Before you blame the religious right for trying to sneak religion in science keep in mind that in Islamic nations, there is no evolution. The disease of the mind called creationism has won and is the curriculum in so many schools in the Islamic world, the only solace is that if you're a girl by the time you're twelve you won't need to hear about this creationist nonsense as you'll be married off without your consent to a cousin or friend of your father. Furthermore, Islamic schools are indoctrinating their followers to believe that the Kuran has actually invented science and predicted all of its fruits. Science is Allah's gift to us. This is the disease of mind that Islam has become, and this is the disease we must fight. Passing blasphemy laws and abstaining from voting reaks of fear and cowardice on part of the West. The Islamic "human rights declaration" is a disgrace and is not a declaration of rights at all, but rather of oppression. This is an absolute assault on human rights and exceeds anything that Christian extremists have done recently.

 
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Epicurus
(Login panos01)

Re: Islam's attack on Democracy

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May 3 2009, 4:52 PM 

I apologize if my response came across as personal. I was not trying to present it in that manner, instead it was simply a response and a debate on the matter.

Don't, in fact never do.
It wasn't personal and did not come across that way.
No idea is so sacred and no person is so special that any of their views must be allowed to go unchallenged if there is disagreement.

I take it as a complement that you can respectfully disagree and engage in dialogue.

As for the moderator position I would have no problem with you becoming a mod. I only said no because there are already three in here. There is also the matter of Carla who has come in here trying to manipulate things. If you keep up on her post you will see what our problem with her is. She assumes that because I defend Hellenism against the likes of the Skopjians that I am a ultra-Nationalist, etc. If we needed more mods I would gladly nominate you for the position. Also, as you may have noticed this forum (actually all forums in here) are quite slow and there is actually an over abundance of mods for the amount of traffic we have.

I see no benefit to being a moderator and don't have any interest in being one. Except maybe if I made a spelling error and wanted to correct it.
I do not believe in censorship. Even some of the most disgusting racist posts I would not delete or edit it as it would serve to remind most people of the filth that exists and the toxic ideas that pollute minds of men and women.

Also, I am just too busy to check this place regularly to be effective.
I read it now and then quickly but don't have the time to post.

This place use to be really busy some 2-3 years ago, what happened? Not that I particularly miss the type of people who were here.

 
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