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All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012 at 10:02 AM
Anonymous  (no login)

 
With all the talk of Ontario players from Don Cherry, wondered what an all time Ontario NHL team would look like, and whether any other province or state could ice a better team. Here is my all time Ontario team of retired players:

(goals) and [points]

Ontario Born Players

Center
Gretzky (894)
Francis (549)
Esposito (717)
Hawerchuk (518)

Left Wing
Bobby Hull (610)
Mahovolich (533)
Shanahan (656)
Andreychuk (640)

Right Wing
Brett Hull (741)
Gartner (708)
Cicarelli (608)
Steve Shutt (432)

Defense
Orr [915]
Coffey [1531]
Potvin [1052]
L. Robinson [958]
Brad Park [896]
Scott Stevens [787]

Goalie
Dryden
Tony Esposito

Pretty good team. Quebec would be stronger in goal (Roy, Brodeur, Plante). Quebec would also field 4 amazing centers (Lemieux, Beliveau, Dionne, and Denis Savard).

But all in all I'd say the Ontario team would put a beat down on any other fantasy team from another state or province.


 
    
AuthorReply
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 10:50 AM 

I'll play for Quebec


Center
Marcel Dionne
Jean Beliveau
Gil Perreault
Mario Lemieux

Left Wing
Luc Robitaille
Michel Goulet
Dickie Moore
Rick Martin

Right Wing
Maurice Richard
Guy Lafleur
Mike Bossy
Bernie Geoffrion

Defense
Ray Bourque
Doug Harvey
Ian Turnbull
Serge Savard
JC Tremblay
Guy Lapointe


Goalie
Patrick Roy
Martin Brodeur
Jacques Plante



 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 11:55 AM 

That Quebec team looks pretty strong too.

Goalies - Quebec in a walk
Defense - Ontario in a walk
Right Wing - Quebec has the edge
Left Wing - Ontario has the edge

It all comes down to center.

Gretzky over Dionne
Beliveau over Francis
Esposito over Perrault
Lemiuex over Hawerchuk

Close to a tie but give it to Ontario on the dominance of the defense.




 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 12:14 PM 

Over 50% of the leading goal scorers in the NHL over the last 50 years have been from Ontario (26 out of 50), although some were tied for the lead.


 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 1:27 PM 

Agree with 11:55, defense sows it up up, all other areas are a wash, with maybe a slight advantage in net for the habs. Two greatest players of all time are from Ontario, one from Brantford (99) and on from Parry Sound (4)

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 1:36 PM 

I know this'll cause arguements but I would put Mario Lemieux ahead of Wayner. He was a dominant player for a longer time with less of a supporting cast and played through cancer and back injuries.

Mario
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3105
Wayne
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2035

A case can be made for Mario as a 1 & 1A

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 1:47 PM 

Atlantic Canada

Center
Bobby Smith
Sidney Crosby
Brad Richards
Greg Malone

Left Wing
Gerard Gallant
Errol Thompson
Lowell Macdonald
Mike McPhee

Right Wing
Gord Drillon
Danny Grant
Glen Murray
Dan Cleary

Defense
Flash Hollett (look him up..he was Bobby Orr before Bobby Orr)
Al MacInnis
Don Sweeney
Dave Pichette
Colin White
Keith Brown

Goalie
Gary Simmons
Roland Melanson


 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 1:52 PM 

Atlantic Canada wouldn't beat the 96 Marlies.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 1:58 PM 



Western Canada

Center
Bobby Clarke
Bryan Trottier
Steve Yzerman
Joe Sakic

Left Wing
Sid Abel
Mark Messier
John Bucyk
Clark Gillies

Right Wing
Gordie Howe
Reg Leach
Mark Recchi
Jarome Iginla

Defense
James Patrick
Ron Greschner
Scott Neidermayer
Fern Flaman
Shea Weber
Doug Bodger

Goalie
Johnny Bower
Ed Belfour
Tiny Thompson

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:02 PM 

That western Canada team looks pretty damn good too, except who is Fern Flaman?

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:03 PM 

He was a star with the Bruins & Leafs in the 40's & 50's. Pickings were slim for D for Western Canada. Barry Beck maybe?


 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:11 PM 

Of the four Ontario has about 2000 players to choose from, Western Canada about 1800 players. Quebec had about 750 and Atlantic provinces had about 200.

I really thought there'd be more from Quebec. I'm very surprised.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:16 PM 

Still that Quebec team is about 90% Hall of Famers. Only Rick Martin and Ian Turnbull didn't make it. I think 100% of Ontario team is in the HHOF.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:18 PM 

Stevie Y is really an Ontario boy. Grew up in Napean.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:20 PM 

Why isn't Cooney Weiland on the Ontario team. He held the NHL record for most points in a season for 13 years!!!

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:30 PM 

American team


Center
Pat Lafontaine
Bobby Carpenter
Mike Modano
Jimmy Carson


Left Wing
Tony Granato
Ryan Malone
Kevin Stevens
John Leclair

Right Wing
Brett Hull
Tony Amonte
Phil Kessel
Joe Mullen

Defense
Keith Carney
Mark Howe
Chris Chelios
Al Iafrate
Rod Langway
Gary Suter

Goalie
Mike Richter
John Vanbiesbrouck
Ryan Miller



 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:31 PM 

Yzerman was born in Cranbrook, BC

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:32 PM 

Weiland over Hawerchuk?

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:33 PM 

Brett Hull is no American. Born in Belleville. Played maybe one year of minor hockey in Chicago and the rest in Winnipeg. By birth Ontarian, by hockey training a manitoban.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:35 PM 

That U.S. team might beat the Atlantic team, but would get a beat down from the other three.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:38 PM 

Cooney was deadly from the blue line in. Why have I never heard of him?

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:39 PM 

Replace Hull with Brian Mullen

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:41 PM 

Could any American even make the Ontario team, if they had been born in Ontario? I don't think so.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:42 PM 

Lafontaine, Modano and Mark Howe could make Team Ontario.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 2:48 PM 

Lafontaine? Really? Certainly wouldn't take him over Gretzky, Esposito, or Ron Francis. Hawerchuk? I really don't think so. Hawerchuk was one hell of a hockey player and probably one of the top 3 players to ever come out of Toronto.

Modano? Same thing.

Who would Mark Howe replace on D? Don't think he would have made the Hall without his last name being Howe.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 3:02 PM 

Mark Howe over Scott Stevens

And I'd take Pat Lafontaine over Hawerchuk any day. Lafontaine only had 11 full seasons (three shortened because of concussions and he scored almost 500 goals). Hawerchuk had a longer career and scored about 30 goals more.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 3:35 PM 

Well I threw Scott Stevens on the list, because like most Torontonians not a big Larry Murphy fan, and I was only going with retired guys.

So we could throw Murphy on the list... or an active guy like Chris Pronger. I'd take both of them over Mark Howe. Murphy career numbers are way better than Howe's.

As for Lafontaine, your recollections are a little off. Hawerchuk actually had a better points per game average than Pat. True, Dale played almost 300 more games, but also had almost 400 more point.

Or we could go for an active guy like Joe Thornton from London, Ontario.

Not trying to be difficult but really don't think a single American could make that team.




 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 3:45 PM 

How can anyone say Gretzky wasn't consistent? That is mind boggling. He won the Art Ross 10 times. Had 15 100 point seasons and five 200 point seasons. Was third in league scoring in his 2nd last season.

Lemieux was fantastic, but not at Gretzky's level.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 3:49 PM 

Who said Gretzky wasn't consistent?

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 3:56 PM 

1:36 said Lemieux was a dominant player for longer time than Gretzky.

Gretzky
10 Art Ross Trophies
9 Hart Trophies

Lemieux
6 Art Ross Trophies
3 Hart Trophies

I don't see it.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 4:37 PM 

99 and 4 the two best of all time no exceptions

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 4:41 PM 

Finally a good thread on N54!

All our kids should read this one!

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 4:58 PM 

They'll be glad they weren't born in Atlantic Canada

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 5:04 PM 

Bob Gainey should be on team ontario. May be break it down even further. Gainey is from Peterborough, so is Steve Larmer. We could come up with some great teams by the city they came from too.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 5:15 PM 

Gainey over Andreychuk

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 5:28 PM 

All the way
Heart vs good hands
Heart wins every day

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 6:10 PM 

1:52 Very, very funny. I couldn't stop laughing. I read that Atlantic lineup and was wondering what to say. Priceless.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 8:41 PM 

OK so the 96 Marlies have highjacked this thread. The 96 Marlies couldn't beat the 95,94 or 93 Marlies. In fact the 93 Marlie team would destroy them.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 7 2012, 10:50 PM 

that's cause they are 3 years older.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 8 2012, 5:25 AM 

Bobby Hull - Wayne Gretzky - Bill Cook
Ted Lindsay - Howie Morenz - Cyclone Taylor
Frank Nighbor - Milt Schmidt - Hooley Smith
Frank Mahovlich - Frank Boucher - Chalie Conacher

Bobby Orr - Denis Potvin
Red Kelly - Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey - Brad Park

Ken Dryden
Clint Benedict

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 8 2012, 5:26 AM 

whoops, Denis Potvin ain't from ontario..... put King Clancy in his place.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 8 2012, 8:59 PM 

Denis Potvin is an Ottawa boy. Couldn't stand the guy, but he could play.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 8 2012, 9:15 PM 

born in quebec grew up in ottawa

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 1:20 AM 

Would anyone agree that jagr although not retired would be top 3 players all time had he not gone to Russia for 3 years. He currently is 8th on all time points list. Had he stayed in NHL for those three years and stayed healthy you can take an avg of his lat two seasons point totals with his point total of this year and that would give u a fair avg number I think. With all that said it would put him 3rd in all time points and 7 points behind second.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 1:27 AM 

Maybe top 5 all time, but not top 3. But certainly the number one non-Canadian in NHL history.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 2:19 AM 

Jagr is not close to top-5 all time, but he is definately a top-5 right winger. He's easily better than Guy Lafleur.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 9:52 AM 

this is fun

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 10:07 AM 

8th place is pretty close to top 5 if u ask me and jagrs numbers should be a lot higher had he not left the NHL for 3 years. The numbers don't lie even if u took his worst season point total it would still put him 4th overall. Just think he is a player who doesn't get enough credit seems to always be stuck in Lemieuxs shadow.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 3:45 PM 

Good grief... Hey Jagr-lover, build your All Time European Team, contribute something to this discussion other than the love for a saluting moron.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 5:32 PM 

Here is the Canadian top 5:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard

Could you really put Jagr ahead of any of them? I wouldn't.

How about Canadian top 10.

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Messier
Dionne
Esposito
Coffey
Yzerman


Maybe he squuezes ahead of Yzerman, but would you really take Jagr over Stevie Y? I don't think I would.

But the guy can definitely play.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 5:35 PM 

Knew I was forgetting someone. Bobby Hull has to be on the top 10 list of best Canadians, ahead of Yzerman. No way does Jagr beat out Bobby Hull.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 5:39 PM 

I'd say there are 3 Euros in the all time top 25:

Lidstrom
Jagr
Kurri

But wouldn't but any of the 3 in the top 10.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 6:00 PM 

Why is Hockeytown not mentioned here. Everyone knows Detroit is the hockey capital of the worl. Here is all the all-time Michigan team.

Center
Mike Modano
Doug Weight
Brian Ralston
Jimmy Carson

LW
Kelley Miller
Mike York
Mike Donnelly
David Booth

RW
Mike Grier
Chad LaRose
Craig Patrick
Dug Roberts

Defense
Mark Howe
Kevin Hatcher
Brian Rafalski
Al Iafrate
Gordie Roberts
Derrian Hatcher

Goalies
John VanBiesbrouk
Tim Thomas
Ryan Miller

Howe the only one in the HHOF, although I guess Modano might make it some day. How can you call yourself hockeytown, when your whole state produces such a weak all time line up?



 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 6:13 PM 

Too much work, but I want to get into the action, so I'll take Arizona. Here is the all time Arizona team:

Jim Brown

Played one game in 1983. Way to go Arizona!

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 9 2012, 11:43 PM 

Lidstrom, jagr and kurri? How about federov,selanne, tretiak, mogilny, bure, forsberg, gonchar, hasek, khabibulin, Stan Mikita, Peter stastny, zubov, kharlamov can't forget sundin. That's a pretty sick team

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 1:38 AM 

If u want to as some current players like malkin datsyuk and oveckin they would be nice on that list too

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 3:37 AM 

Maurice Richard should be nowhere near anybody's top-5. He brings nothing but goals, and Bobby Hull was a much better scorer, so he's easily ahead. Then you have defensemen like Doug Harvey, Ray Bourque, and Eddie Shore, who are all easily better than Richard.


That leaves Jean Beliveau, Maurice Richard, Stan Mikita, Nicklas Lidstrom, Dominik Hasek, Patrick Roy, and Jacques Plante in whatever order you want to put them in.


My personal list:
Gordie Howe
Wayne Gretzky
Bobby Orr
Mario Lemieux
Doug Harvey
Ray Bourque
Bobby Hull
Eddie Shore
Dominik Hasek
Jean Beliveau
Nicklas Lidstrom
Patrick Roy
Stan Mikita
Maurice Richard
Jacques Plante

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 4:11 AM 

what? (just the forwards from the last 25 years)
gretzky
lemieux
howe
richard
beliveau
crosby
lindros
jagr
bossy
ovechkin
malkin
datsyuk
messier
yzerman
hull (both bobby and brett)
sakic
forsberg
federov
bure
mogiliny
toews
iginla
nash
stamkos
kovalchuk
staal
selanne
neely
shannahan
perry

AND NOT ONE LEAF IN THE BUNCH!!!!!



 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 11:02 AM 

Sundin much better than Nash in my opinion

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 12:33 PM 

I agree. Sundin also better than Staal.

My top 3 Euros list of

Jagr
Lidstrom
Kurri

definitely has to be revised to include Dominic Hasek. That guy could play.




 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 12:48 PM 

If we are doing the all time list of NHL greats, how far down the list is the first non-Canadian?

I'd say maybe 12 or 13.

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Howe
5. Richard
6. Bobby Hull
7. Dionne
8. Messier
9. Crosby
10. Beliveau
12. Coffey
13. Borque
14. Lidstrom

Is Lidstrom really better than his captain Yzerman? Probably not. So that might be high.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 2:54 PM 

TEAM PETERBOROUGH, ONTARIO

LEFT WING
Bob Gainey
Cory Stillman
Doug Evans
Joey Johnston

CENTER
Mike Fisher
Red Sullivan
Mark Freer
Doug Gibson

RIGHT WING
Corey Perry
Steve Larmer
John Druce
Herb Raglan

DEFENCE
doug crossman
kerry huffman
george theberge
bob murray
dennis patterson
paul curtis

GOALIES
zac bierk
cam newton

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 4:39 PM 

Wow. Team Peterborough looks pretty good, especially upfront.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 4:47 PM 

There is no justification for Mario Lemieux over Gordie Howe. Howe had a superior level of offensive dominance, but he also had great longevity. He had his 6 Art Rosses and 6 Harts, but more impressive was that Mr. Hockey strung together 20 consecutive top-5 scoring finishes. He did this while being excellent defensively, and also while being the toughest guy in the league.

Again, Marice Richard is over-rated. His legend outweights his actual ability. He never led the league in points, but he led in goals 5 times. Bobby Hull led in goals 7 times, but also led in points 3 times. His 50 goal season came in while many of the best players were storming the beaches of Normandy. 1945 was the most talent depleted NHL season ever. Bobby Hull was scoring 50+ goals while the rest of the league leaders were lucky to crack 30. That doesn't even account for the difference in linemates. Richard played with Elmer Lach or Henri Richard and Toe Blake or Dickie Moore. Hull played with Bill Hay and Murray Balfour.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 5:22 PM 

Team Hamilton, Ontario

Centre
Blake Dunlop
Murray Oliver
Adam Mair
Todd Harvey

Left Wing
Dave Andreychuk
Ron Murphy
Derek King
Brian McGrattan

Right Wing
Babe Dye
Nelson Emmerson
Dennis Ververgaert
Krys Barch

Defence
Harry Howell
Marty McSorely
Ric Nattress
Joe Cirella
Pat Quinn
Steve Staios

Goaltender
Ken Dryden
Don Edwards

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 10 2012, 5:23 PM 

Here is my all Toronto team... okay... before anyone objects... all time GTA team.

Center
Adam Oates
Dale Hawerchuk
Syl Apps
Dennis Maruk

Left Wing
Brendan Shanahan
Steve Shutt
Busher Jackson
Rick Nash

Right Wing
Rick Tocchet
Rick Middleton
Mark Napier
John Anderson

Defense
Paul Coffey
Larry Murphy
Brad Park
Adam Foote
Lionel Conacher
Bill Quackenbush

Goalies
Ken Dryden
Bill Durnan

That's 20 players, and at least 13-14 are in the HHOF.

My pick for the best player to ever come out of Toronto? Paul Coffey.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 11 2012, 1:31 AM 

Wow u guys have A LOT of time on your hands.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 11 2012, 2:24 PM 

Not me... that's why I went with the all Arizona team. Only one guy on it.

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 11 2012, 2:34 PM 

The All Venezuela team

Rick Chartraw

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 11 2012, 3:19 PM 

Agreed. Here is my all time South Africa team:

Olaf Kolzig


 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 11 2012, 3:21 PM 

Can I play?

All Paraguay team is a beauty:

Willi Plett

 
 
Anonymous
(no login)

Re: All-Time All-Ontario Team

March 11 2012, 8:56 PM 

I think Rocket Richard deserves to be in the top 5. His 544 goals in a league where they played only 50 games is pretty damn impressive. He topped the earlier guy by 220 goals in setting the career mark.

From the blue line in he was deadly. No knock against Bobby Hull who is the most under rated player in my opinion. Hull was absolutely fabulous. Just a dominant, dominant player.

How about this:

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Richard/Hull

Man they were 5 fantastic players.

By the end of the day, will Stamkos be top 10? I'd say very likely.


 
 
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