School Name: Saba
Location: Netherlands Antilles
Basic Science Tuition:
$4,950.00/semester
Clinical Science Tuition:
$5,450.00/semester
USA Clinical Rotations: Yes
Time required for MD: 40 months
There are several forum moderators that try to prevent the Saba forum from looking like the main forum. We do not allow profanity, spamming, or attacks on individuals that have nothing important to do with going to medical school. If you want "garbage in - garbage out" you should definately look at another forum where that is common. If you want information about moving ahead with your medical career, welcome.
Ultimately, anyone interested in "any" medical school should visit the campus, speak directly with faculty & students, sit in on classes, and look at their web site for where the last several hundred graduates have been accepted for residency and which states they are in practice.
Good luck on your medical career.
Posted on Dec 20, 2002, 4:58 AM from IP address 141.154.10.199
I have two children and would be concerned about moving around too much during clinicals. Is it possible to do majority of rotations in one place taking into account my family? Regards, Greg
Posted on Dec 20, 2002, 12:17 PM from IP address 205.181.102.135
You can certainly do all of your clinical in Louisiana. There is atleast one spot (Kansas City) where you can do almost everything. There may be more locations now. You will probably want to do some externships in your 4th year to improve your chances in the match.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 23, 2002, 4:36 AM from IP address 65.190.185.14
Depends on the rotation and the person. Mostly you can study as little or as much as you want. I recommend studying a lot! It will help you on the Step 2 which is no longer an easy exam. You should spend atleast 2-3 hours reading a night. You can "get by" with less, but trying to cram for the Step 2 would be very difficult.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 28, 2002, 5:25 PM from IP address 65.190.185.14
I totally agree that even-handed moderation is essential to a good forum. I also know that these things cost money, but is there some way that the pop-up ads could be curtailed? I've been hit with 5 ads in the time that it took me to write this message.
They were so numerous and difficult last week that they literally shut down my web browser every time I tried to access this forum.
Can anybody out there help us out?
Best fo Luck to Us All!
Posted on Dec 21, 2002, 3:17 AM from IP address 66.56.16.5
You can eliminate most or all popups with a popup killer program. There are a number available on download.com and they vary in quality and effectiveness. The good ones offer a free trial period after which you have to buy the program. I've tried a number of them and the best one by far is AdsGone. But as I say, you'll have to pay for it, unless you use Kazaa and download the cracked version for free! I just did a quick search now and it's called "AdsGone 3.8.9 + crack". I did and it's a lifesaver. It even blocks banner ads.
Posted on Dec 26, 2002, 11:13 AM from IP address 66.185.85.70
An update on Texas: TexasQueen is right; the newest (2002) changes to the licensure statute omits reciprocity altogether. More disturbing is this new section I had not seen before:
"...(5) An applicant who is a graduate of a medical school that is located outside the United States and Canada must present satisfactory proof to the board that each medical school attended was substantially equivalent to a Texas medical school at the time of attendance. This may include but is not limited to:
(A) a Foreign Educational Credentials Evaluation from the Office of International Education Services of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO);
(B) a board questionnaire, to be completed by the medical school and returned directly to board;
(C) a copy of the medical school's catalog;
(D) verification from the educational agency confirming the validity of school and licensure of applicant;
(E) proof of affiliation agreements between the medical school and the hospitals where clinical clerkships were taught;
(F) proof that the institutions had written contracts with the medical school if the institutions were not located in a country where the medical school was located;
(G) proof that the faculty members of the medical school had written contracts with the school if they taught a course outside the country where the medical school was located;
(H) proof that the medical education courses taught in the United States complied with the higher education laws of the state in which the courses were taught;...."
Section (a) is a consulting service that bills the school directly for giving it the OK. This is new, could be very expensive, and is probably way down on Saba's list after Cali and NY right now. I have to agree with Paul Plowman that Texas is suddenly becoming very IMG unfriendly but it looks to me like that applies to ALL foreign schools--not just Carib. Interesting since at least 2 members of the board are from foreign schools and many others are political appointees. Also, proposed new changes (2003)include this:
"...(3) To be eligible for postgraduate resident permit, applicants who begin postgraduate training in Texas after January 1, 2004 must not have failed a licensure examination that would prevent the applicant from obtaining an unrestricted physician license in Texas."
Although other sections still include provisions for passing USMLE, Flex, Comdex, etc after so many tries just as before this could be read to mean that if you fail step 1 or 2 the first time or don't take step 3 or the jurisprudence exam you are out of luck for good if they don't want to play ball with you; otherwise why put it in? Very confusing. In fact, the entire statute is much more confusing now than when I was on the island as well as contradictory and I would love to see someone challenge it in court.
All in all Texas is not so friendly for some reason. Howdy.
Posted on Dec 30, 2002, 1:19 AM from IP address 65.58.35.33
You mentioned that you had some difficulty landing residency interviews because you were a carribean grad. Do you mind telling us your stats (usmle?). Im wondering if its because the PD's have higher standards when it comes to carib grads or do they just snub them altogether.
Posted on Dec 25, 2002, 11:08 AM from IP address 66.185.84.70
Look this isn't about me ... frankly, I got more interviews than most of the folks I know. The facts are these: Every program would rather have a US grad. Remember: it's not just about doing the job (which frankly some PD's doubt to begin with) ... you could be the best damn doctor in town, but if they can't get you a license or it's going to be an administrative hassle to get you priveleged at all the hospitals in the program or licensed in another state where they do part of their training or just get you insured ... whatever, FMGs create more paperwork/more hassle ... you should know this by now! There is also a certain amount of prestige associated with having all US grads ... never underestimate the prestige factor!
FMG's get what is left over ... in most cases. We all knew this (or at least you should have known this) going in ... there is a reason most FMGs go into FP and IM. It's because there are a ton of these positions left over. If you want to do FP or IM, pass your tests and you are going to get in somewhere. If you want to do something more competitive, then you need to be prepared for a little humble pie. That's the only point I'm trying to make.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 28, 2002, 5:55 PM from IP address 65.190.185.14
If you reread my post, it will be clear. A better question to you would be: how do you explain the vast majority of FMGs doing Internal Medicine and Family Practice? Look, I'm on your side ... I'm just saying that if you want something more competitive, then be prepared for some rejection along the way. If you are trying for something REALLY competitive (i.e. Orthopedics), then I guarantee you will experience a lot of rejection along the way. That's my only point ... be realistic.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 31, 2002, 5:57 PM from IP address 65.190.185.14
The message above is from me ... I don't know why it says anon. After re-reading my post, I wanted to add something. Don't let all this stuff get you down. I think it is important to be realistic about your situation/chances and pursue your goals from that stand point. Sometimes your position will not be favorable (as I said in the previous post) and sometimes your position will be stronger (i.e. an IM residency that depends on FMGs to fill it's program). You have to play the cards you are dealt. Just be realistic about the cards you have and play them wisely.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 29, 2002, 11:15 AM from IP address 65.190.185.14
i was wondering if saba university has a gym in its campus,,,im a huge gym freak,,,,i love bench pressing and other muscle exercises,,,,please tell me theres a gym in the campus of saba.
sincerely,
new student
Posted on Dec 31, 2002, 2:57 AM from IP address 152.163.188.8
What is SABA's track record for clinical rotation placements in western states such as New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah and Wyoming? Licensing issues?
Posted on Dec 30, 2002, 10:06 AM from IP address 63.227.26.163
I hope this posting finds you in high spirits. I have been watching this forum recently and have been noting the direction of discussions and issues and their relative worth in terms of relevance for deciding on one school or another. I think that the objective of this forum has been somewhat misplaced and is causing a bit of confusion for the students who are interested in foreign medical training.
It doesn't matter what the best school is. The breakdown is this: Any student who decides to attend a medical school outside of the US/Canada (or even in the US/Canada), is making a lifetime career decision. Only getting married and starting a family and buying house and some serious medical conditions will ever deserve more weight and consideration than your decision about what to do with the rest of your life. It is fine to ask questions about that.
However, it is not fine to post messages on this forum and expect that you will find the true path in life from it. You have probably never met these people in your life. You may never meet these people in your life. This is just a forum. Half the people here post anonymously and some are administrators, some students, some graduates, some dropouts, some miscellaneous. So don't expect a miracle to happen. The fact that the forum is here as option is more than enough. It gives you the names of the schools you need and their contact information. Period.
The only bit of advice you need is this: Apply only to the schools that you consider reliable, trustworthy, and meet your quality of life issues. If you are an established businessperson who is married with kids and plan to live on savings, that is far different from a 4.0 single woman who is relying on loans. There is no way that a forum like this can answer the questions that you yourself can only answer for yourself. Your expectations are out of bounds if you allow this forum to be like a deity.
Now, seeing how I put up there that my advice is to only apply to schools you trust, here is the other part: The ONLY, ONLY way you can tell if you trust a school is not through this forum. It is ONLY by buying a plane ticket, calling the island administration of the school you are intersted in, and going there for at least a week while classes are in session. That's it. Period.
Going to the island is the only way you will know what kind of students they accept, what their MCAT scores were, what their backgrounds are, how the locals treat students, how the housing is like, what hassles there are to deal with that are not listed in the school brochure, what the costs of food and housing are, what the weather is like, how many mosquitos there are, what the phone and Internet speed is, and most of all: Whether you even like the place or not and whether you will learn anything. That's the only way.
I can give you a 100% guarantee of satisfaction for this: Go to AUC, Saba, MUA, Ross, and St. George's, and other schools, and spend a week on each island. Yeah, maybe that seems like a long time. But let me tell you this - spending 20 months consecutively on an island is a much, much longer time. And by that time you will have committed thousands of dollars of your hard-earned money, mental anguish and time, and the expectations of your family, friends, and colleagues.
If you go now, before you commit to any school and check the schools out, you will put your mind at ease and peace of mind is the only thing in the world that can not be bought or decided on a forum. It can only be decided for yourself when you are in the classroom and listening to the voice of the professor who is going to instruct you in the art of healing and sitting next to the students with whom you will be studying, working, competing, enjoying life, having arguments, and seeing every single day for the entire time you are on the island.
I assure you, at that moment, this forum will be viewed in a different light. Instead of the forum being your only source of artificial illumination on the subject of medicine, the source of light will be radiance from your own soul at knowing that the destiny which awaits you has come up like the road to meet you and you will know that this journey of a thousand miles began with the right first step, and not a hesitant one that may cause you to stumble before the race even begins. I made a satisfying decision for myself and will speak only for myself. I live with my choices and at the end of the day, the only one I answer to is myself. The blame need not go further than me if something goes wrong. But, the glory will go further than me if something goes right.
It is equally possible that you will come to the islands and say this is not the lifestyle for you - at that moment, you will have made an equally significant revelation. Choose wisely only after acting wisely. Such are the words that I speak for YOUR benefit, not mine. Such are the words that you must speak to YOURSELF, not to the forum. Only in that way can you decide if Saba is better than Ross is better than MUA is better than AUC is better than St. George's is better than St. Mattew's is better than Ben Gurion is better than Harvard is better than Burger King. Bottom line. Please take care.
Disclaimer: Live life by example, not by preaching. If you are successfuly, people will see what you do and how you did things to get there. You will not have to say much to convince anyone. A word to the wise is sufficient. Any company that spends more money on promoting a movie than on making the movie is usually not a good movie. Take all postings with a grain of salt. Don't believe a word I say until you verify it for yourself. Talk to graduates for a real perspective. Visit the islands. Don't send in your money until you are sure.
There are good people who post on the forum. There are bad people who post on the forum. The problem is on a blue background with black text, it is hard to tell the difference until you stand in the shoes that stand on the island and hold the textbooks in your hand while looking the professor straight in the eye and saying: I had the choice to come to this island to learn or to not learn. And I have chosen to learn.
Posted on Nov 26, 2002, 12:05 PM from IP address 216.152.164.66
Since, no one else has praised your words yet... Thanks.
I am a 4th year undergrad with limited cash and time, so I don't have the luxury of visiting 4 schools for a week at a time.... But hopefully I can get in touch with students at each school. I am assuming that you attended SUSOM, so if you have a couple of minutes to chat, can you contact me via email (lobotomy_man@hotmail.com).
Me.
Posted on Nov 26, 2002, 6:55 PM from IP address 65.93.181.90
There are pros and cons to every medical school. I enjoyed being on Saba, it is a nice place to study, but honestly when I was there I thought the majority of basic science profs were not teaching on the level of helping students pass the usmle.
Ultimately, you have to pass the usmle to become a doctor in the US or you will not get a residency. But, like several others have mentioned, if you focuse towards your goal it can be done.
We should not say that people are good nor bad if they say something that we do not agree with. Everyone has a right to express their own opinion.
Saba, Ross, St. Georges, St Matt., St. Eust., St. Mary's, AUC, and several others are all opportunities to become a medical doctor. So it is up to the individual what path is best for them, I suggest you visit as many school as you can before deciding.
Posted on Nov 27, 2002, 3:58 AM from IP address 12.77.178.152
AACRAO certification of equivalency can be purchased by the grad/student for minimum $190 per course according to their website. I'm unclear on if the school has to have been visited, audited, investigated, etc. as well. Perhaps someone will look into that. Obviously it will cost the foreign resident big; beginning at $3200+ anyway.
Posted on Dec 30, 2002, 1:43 AM from IP address 65.58.35.33
I'd like to get input from any current SABA student or admin on the following:
- What is the attrition rate over the past few sememesters?
- What percentage of SABA grads (with passing scores) failed to get residencies? If any, is there a common reason why they failed to match?
- Do the TERI/MedAchiever Loans cover all your tuition/books/fees/etc AND room/board/travel/etc expenses? Are these loans difficult to get with a good credit rating?
- I finished my BS in Zoology way back in 1988 with a cumm and science GPA of 2.7. Since then, I've been an officer in the military and earned a MA in Management with a GPA of 3.9. Needless to say, I have quite a bit more discipline today than I did back in my undergrad days. Any input on the odds of acceptance? Would taking any refresher courses (A&P or Biochem) help? I have no doubt about my ability to master the course load. I just want to be sure I best convey to SABA that I can get the job done.
Thanks in advance for any and all inputs/advice.
Regards,
John
Posted on Dec 28, 2002, 11:50 AM from IP address 24.217.138.218
hey there everyone:
Can anyone help me out and tell me if they think I should bring a table lamp for the dorms. I dont know how the lighting is over there. I bought sheets and a pillow case. Do they provide pillows in the dorms or do you need to bring those too? Thanks for all your help guys. If you recommend brining other things that were not listed in the SABA handbook, please let me know. Thanks again. See all of you in January. We made a great choice guys!
Sincerely,
Terek
Posted on Dec 27, 2002, 9:02 AM from IP address 198.81.26.208
my father was telling me that it really doesn't matter so much that some states wont offer licensure to some medical schools. He said that he got licensed in Conn. from UAG? Guadalajara and then went to Texas and asked for reprocity.
Is this still possible ?
Posted on Dec 18, 2002, 4:09 PM from IP address 24.162.163.197
Texas does have reciprocity. However, as I read the statute (and I am not a lawyer), you have to have been licensed by another State with the same original requirements for licensure for 5 years. Also, to add to Amrit's post: Although Saba sends its students to pretty much all teaching hospitals (and you usually have a choice anyway), not every hospital is approved by every State. i. e., If you do Surgery at Jackson Park some States will not accept that rotation as there is no surgical residency there. Some will, since there is a FP residency there. You HAVE to check with your State Med Boards. This is not a swipe at SABA. All of your clinical requirements need to be double checked by YOU if you need to be sure about a particular State. Laws and requirements for 50 different States are tough to keep track of.
Posted on Dec 23, 2002, 11:05 AM from IP address 63.208.188.222
The above post is correct, but let me add something to it. Texas requires that ALL clinical rotations must be done in AGCME residency programs ... I'm not sure this is possible ... if so, it will require a lot of moving. (Sandy and the clinical staff are in tune to this and I'm sure will do all they can to help you out ... they've always helped me!) In addition, you have to do rotations in FP and Neuro. Frankly, the whole thing is still evolving and who knows what they will come up with next ... the board has been given tremendous discretion (ie. they can do what they want).
The above post mentions being licensed for 5 years in another state (without any actionable items against your license) as a route to licensure via reciprocity. That is the way I read it as well.
So the reciprocity question really hinges on the following: does having a license in another state for 5 years effectively trump the AGCME/FP/Neuro/etc. requirments? This has not been tested as far as I know. Remember: all of this concerns permanent, full licensure.
The interesting thing is that Texas has become more confident and aggressive by denying Physician in Training Licenses (so you can't even get a temporary license as a resident) to Carib grads. This is very interesting ... I'm not sure that Texas can (legally) effectively bar a US citizen from a federally funded residency program by denying a state training license. I smell a class action suit in there somewhere ... will see if anyone brings one. For the immediate future, Texas has effectively cut us off for residency. (When I say "us", I mean all Carib grads.)
My main concern is that it seems neighboring states are picking up on this ... I mentioned my experience on the interview trail in another post.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 24, 2002, 6:02 AM from IP address 65.190.185.14
Texas does not have reciprocity - and you need to go to the Texas website and read the most current statutory language - what you are referring to (5years blah blah blah) is gone.
Posted on Dec 26, 2002, 8:08 AM from IP address 66.68.26.101
Texas has become increasingly difficult to get licensed in for Caribbean grads. It appears that other FMGs don't have much of a problem, but if you went anywhere in the Carib then watch out. I was offered an interview for residency and contacted the state board to find out if I would qualify for a Physician in Training License ... when they found out I went to a Carib school, they completely blew me off.
I just recently interviewed for Anesth. at the Univ. of Oklahoma with another Saba student ... it was not a warm welcome. Apparently, things have turned around in Anesth and eventhough the program is on probation, they did exactly warm up to either of us.
Also Statia grads are not getting licensed in Okla and there is some concern that Saba is not far behind. All in all it seems like the states surrounding Texas are taking the Texas bent and getting tough on Carib grads.
I would like to see the school (Saba) actively involved in promoting it's program to the state licensing boards down here. There has been a big focus on California, but we are losing ground rapidly in the the smaller states. A little marketing and a little time spent with the boards explaining Saba's program would go a LONG way towards opening/maintaining open doors for Saba grads in the following states:
Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arkansas, Kansas, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, etc. These are small states and a little smoozing here and there would go a LONG way. The real problem is that these board's are begining to notice how successful Texas has become at excluding Carib grads and don't be surprised if they don't start towing the Texas line pretty soon. Some effort now could head off a big problem in the future.
Keep in mind that this goes for all Carib schools ... not just Saba. Nevertheless, the medical boards get comfortable with licensing grads from a certain school. For example, Saba grads are still getting licensed in Oklahoma, but Statia grads are not ... how long this will last depends of how hard we (the school) sell our program!
You heard it here ... direct from the interview train.
Good luck!
Posted on Dec 21, 2002, 6:41 PM from IP address 65.190.185.14
Housing and Apartments Exchange for med students
For Sale By Owner.
