robertsloan2:
Cool! So this is the great white chatroom. Looks like the other one but it's white not yellow.
robertsloan2:
Are you transcribing?
JimMills:
There's a way to change it, but I'm not sure how.
robertsloan2:
The white's cool. No reason to change it.
JimMills:
I will save it, yes. But it might be a good idea to back me up in case of disconnects, etc.
JimMills:
Hi, Bob! How are you feeling?
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Pretty awful, I've had some very nasty complications. If I suddenly vanish you'll know
JimMills:
k - well, we're doing the intro and 'why worldbuild?' tonight - astromechanics is next week, if you want to go.
BlairB:
good place to start for me...
robertsloan2:
I'm backing up everything, Jim. In my usual way copying and pasting into a Notepad file.
JimMills:
That's what I do, too...
Deedlit:
hello
JimMills:
Ok, we have a crowd, so let's get started...
kiarlie:
hey
JimMills:
Welcome to World Building 101. This course is a series of classes, to be presented over a number of weeks and covering a variety of topics related to world building in general.
writingbear:
By the way...hello
JimMills:
Normally we will meet each Sunday for these classes, but there will be some exceptions due to real life commitments on my part. These will be noted on the calendar.
JimMills:
The first exception is Oct. 28th. There will be no world building class that day. The calendar reflects this.
JimMills:
I plan to follow a format where I present a brief lecture on the topic of the day, mostly garnered from my readings on the topic(s) and my own personal experiences as a writer.
JimMills:
After the lecture, we'll go to questions and answers. Please hold questions for the end. If this works for all of you, great.
JimMills:
If not, I'm open to suggestions for ways to improve my presentations.
JimMills:
I'm cutting-and-pasting text I typed up earlier today, so hopefully this won't take too long. Let's get started.
JimMills:
Class 1: Why world build? The answer is to give your readers a sense of wonder, a suspension of disbelief, and to keep them reading (and buying) your work, preferably story after story ad infinitum.
JimMills:
You want to develop a sense of wonder in your world, which applies to fantasy, science fiction, other genre and even mainstream -- world building applies to all writing.
JimMills:
In fantasy and science fiction, you want a sense of otherworldliness that will make your reader say, "Cool - I wish I could see that!"
JimMills:
In other genre or mainstream, you want your setting to support your story. You may draw on a place you know well, or you may make it up.
JimMills:
Either way, you want to give your readers something other than their own back yards in the way of setting.
JimMills:
Readers read to escape their worlds, even if the story is set somewhere not too far away. It's still not their backyard.
JimMills:
Or, if it ~is~ their backyard, you had better get the facts straight. I have a story that is, in part, set in San Francisco.
JimMills:
One critiquer here on Holly's site pointed out a flaw in my story based on setting. I corrected it, so it will be right when it sees print.
JimMills:
But had I not caught it, and readers hollered "That's wrong!" after it was printed, well... that's what world building is for (and critiques as well.).
JimMills:
So how do you go about it? First, you have to ask a few questions and make some very basic decisions.
JimMills:
These apply whether you're writing fantasy, science fiction, any other genre or mainstream.
JimMills:
They apply a little less if your story is set on Earth -- you don't find too many, if any, mainstream novels set on other worlds.
JimMills:
So the first question is: is your story set on Earth? Or is it set on an identical-to-Earth world?
JimMills:
If so, then you have simplified your world building a lot, at least as far as gravity, number of moons, how tides work, etc.
JimMills:
But if you set your story in London or New York City, you had better get the details right, or have a good explanation for why they're different, or your readers will shoot you down.
JimMills:
And, if your story is on Earth, you don't want to have to explain too many differences. What explanations you ~do~ give had better be in story context and not a lecture.
JimMills:
Many writers on Holly's boards are fantasy and/or science fiction writers, so we'll dwell on that for a bit.
JimMills:
World Building has to be in background. Few people will buy your book to read a treatise on how to build a better world.
JimMills:
As Holly commented to me once, citing her editors' comments to her: your readers don't care about your story's worldbuilding; they care about your story's action.
JimMills:
But you need to work out some of the details in order to have a sense of believability in your world. You want your reader to believe that your world might really exist.
JimMills:
This is true whether your story spans a globe, a continent, a country, a province, a city, a town, a block, or just a single room.
JimMills:
Skillfully done -- as background, not lecture -- world building imbues a sense of reality that carries your reader along and elicits a willing suspension of disbelief.
JimMills:
Readers expect research in a historical novel. They don't expect Rameses the second to meet queen Elizabeth, or Moses to be concerned about nuclear proliferation.
JimMills:
In Fantasy and SF, readers expect not to have to deal with world-blasting lasers if the level of civilization is more or less present day. You have to have consistency in your world building.
JimMills:
Fantasy often deals with medieval settings and if this is the case in your work, the reader will be thrown out of the story if bad guy draws sword and good guy shoots him with a pistol.
JimMills:
But what if that's important to your story? If so, then you need to establish early that firearms exist as well as more traditional medieval weapons.
JimMills:
Then it's okay for our hero, Indi, to shoot the guy with the sword. See what I mean? (Raiders of the Lost Ark isn't a medieval story, but the idea is the same.).
JimMills:
I could cite other examples, but it all comes back to the sense of wonder and the suspension of disbelief. That has to be an integral part of your story if you want to hold your readers.
JimMills:
Don't bore your reader with big expository lumps. Research what you need to make your story sound believable, and keep it mostly in the background.
JimMills:
Let your characters communicate your world to the reader by acting it out as they move through your story. Your story ~must~ come first.
JimMills:
Be consistent. Use a few vivid details in your descriptions rather than a lot of generalities. A well thought out world generates such details automatically. But be consistent.
JimMills:
Fantasy and SF in particular deal with other worlds that are sometimes different from Earth. This is good, if you do it right and avoid the many pitfalls of storytelling.
JimMills:
One story that I can recall critiquing on this site (I don't remember who wrote it) dealt with people on a very arid world where water was a precious commodity. The environment deeply affected the story.
JimMills:
In this course, we'll talk about worlds in general -- how they compare to Earth and Earth-like environments in general.
JimMills:
In future classes, we'll discuss the sizes and heat outputs of stars, distance of planets from their suns, gravity, moons, tides, magnetic fields and magnetospheres, lengths of years and days and more.
JimMills:
Don't panic.
JimMills:
This isn't a physics class. I'm not here to teach you astromechanics. But if you want to keep a certain level of wonder and believability, you may need a little of this for your stories.
JimMills:
But we'll keep it minimal. Just enough to give you some background for your story. For those who want more hard science, we'll let you talk to Bob and crunch numbers to your heart's content.
JimMills:
For me, I'll do the minimum necessary to get the story told. I can put things like orbital distances, rotations, solar output and so on into a spreadsheet and play with the numbers if I feel like it.
JimMills:
That sort of thing is coming up next class. In future classes we'll cover other topics like maps, inhabitants, cultures, measurement of time, languages, levels of technology, characters and putting it all together.
JimMills:
I told you the lecture would be short. Now let's go to questions... anyone?
Deedlit:
you've already come up with an awful lot I wouldn't have even considered. How little worldbuilding do you think you can get away with?
JimMills:
That depends entirely on your story and how much it needs.
Deedlit:
for instance, I normally look more at culture than flora and fauna.. but that's bad, right?
toesy:
A typical fantasy story, won't be dealing with much of that
robertsloan2:
Deedlit, I do a lot of fantasy too and it's amazing what a tall tree or a blue bird or something can be considered accurate and still nothing like a bluejay or an oak. Especially if locals name it.
JimMills:
D: No, not at all. A touch of flora and fauna is fine... but what do readers care about in a story? People. People make the culture.
JimMills:
And it depends on what your story is all about. If it's about the birds and the bees, then you need to deal more with flora and fauna. But if it's about people and their culture, then you're right on.
Deedlit:
but, for instance, if your characters are travelling a lot, you need detail on the surroundings more than culture - is that true?
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Can I dissent slightly? I've useinteractions with F&F to develop characters.
robertsloan2:
I think that gets filtered by who they are and what they notice. "Oh the cows in this country are funny looking black and white things, meaty though" a farmer might think having never seen one of that breed. And not notice the trees are different.
JimMills:
How much of your story is travel and how much is interacting with other people? The other people make the culture. You should mention some flora/fauna, by all means, but don't overdo it.
writingbear:
I think you need to know what they see when they go from point a to point b unless it takes days to get from one to the other
writingbear:
...then maybe a little more detail
JimMills:
A few vivid details here and there to lend a sense of reality to your story is great, but readers don't want to read a travel monologue about the 645 varieties of tree you can catalog.
Deedlit:
ok
toesy:
Even if it takes day, you can describe scenery
BlairB:
So if it's something major (like a huge, crystal clear lake) then it should be mentioned, but we don't care that the fields of purple flowers only grow 3 petals?
Deedlit:
<lol>
writingbear:
sounds good to me
JimMills:
Unless those facts bear directly on the story.
robertsloan2:
Blair, it might matter if trillium was on the heraldry of an enemy knight and someone clever recognized that's where he was born.
BlairB:
gotcha
toesy:
unless that flower is the Universal Antidote!
JimMills:
There's no reason why you can't bury a significant fact or two in the scenic descriptions.
robertsloan2:
Which they realized only after they tramped a month away from the source! That sets the three petal purple flowers as a clue for Intelligent Reader.
JimMills:
There are many variations possible.
JimMills:
In my latest WIP, I've set the story on the Earth of 165 million years ago, or a world just like it. Now I have to find ways to show the reader rather than tell him that that's the case. It's challenging.
JimMills:
All the animals are precursors of amphibians, fish and reptiles... but I can't say that. I have to show it.
Deedlit:
is that when dino's were around?
robertsloan2:
Oooh that I'd like to read. I think you've set it far enough back that was before flowering plants. The significant omission of flowers in the landscape might cue me.
JimMills:
The humans are the only mammals on the planet...
JimMills:
That would be one clue... chapter 1 is posted on the F&SF Board.
JimMills:
Look for Battle Dragon.
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Shades of "Technicolor Time Machine"
Deedlit:
Jim, I think that hardest thing I ever had to show was that a world did not have a moon.
robertsloan2:
I'll have to read and critique it. Dad was a paleontologist, I got that stuff in the cradle.
JimMills:
D: Yes, but the earlier dinos.
robertsloan2:
You had fish and reptiles then certainly along with archosauria and perhaps early birds.
robertsloan2:
Have to check dates on the earlier birds.
JimMills:
I can understand that, Clare. What reason would the inhabitants have to say anything about lack of a moon? You have a hard job to communicate that to the reader.
JimMills:
I think the birds came much later. I do have to do some more research.
Deedlit:
you can say that again, Jim! My creative writing group kept asking why it was so dark at night if there was a moon!
Deedlit:
I just had references to star lit skies etc..
JimMills:
How did you eventually tell the reader?
robertsloan2:
No tides either. No lunar cycle. No word month.
JimMills:
They could still have months, but they might call them something else. Deciyears, maybe.
robertsloan2:
Right, I just said no word "month" not that there wouldn't be a convenient time division.
Deedlit:
there was a character who remembered when there was a moon. I used him to communicate it once and for all to the reader.
robertsloan2:
No Mondays either. (Wow, think of that...)
Deedlit:
robert - it wasn't as simple as that. it was a magical/god thing. the moon was a god who was killed.
JimMills:
Ahhh... one possibility I thought of was to have the MC's visit an astronomer...
robertsloan2:
Ooooh cool, makes me want to read it.
BlairB:
or to see a painting with a moon in it
JimMills:
He could comment that some worlds have world-companions or something like that.
Deedlit:
in the story I'm currently working on (allegedly) the moon comes back.
BlairB:
"Hey! What is THAT think in the night sky?"
BlairB:
think = thing
JimMills:
That could be interesting... I'm thinking earthquakes...
Deedlit:
precisely, blair.
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
No flora or fauna with monthly cycles of any kind. Weird calendar.
JimMills:
Or in the day sky for that matter... it might cause widespread panic.
robertsloan2:
Could hang on the woman cycle and be called that.
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Earthquakes? Planetbuster more like.
JimMills:
Well, since there are gods involved... maybe they don't want to lose all their worshippers.
robertsloan2:
Right, whichever deity is responsible for earthquakes would probably mute them - but might still have some.
JimMills:
Imagine the end of the world stories that would be lending to the general panic.
JimMills:
"It's going to crash into us and kill us all!"
robertsloan2:
"It's the ghost of the sun!"
JimMills:
That could be especially true if the moon starts out at a distance and gets closer and closer.
BlairB:
The sun is burning out!
JimMills:
And imagine a solar eclipse!
Deedlit:
or from the point of view of the elves - it's evil! it's a trick of aphra come to kill us!!! sorry.
robertsloan2:
Jim - point for yours, the Moon actually was closer during the Cretaceous, visibly a lot huger.
kiarlie:
<lol> poor misguided elves!
JimMills:
And the Earth spun faster, too... so shorter days.
robertsloan2:
Right. Which withoutwatches humans wouldn't notice but with them would be scary.
JimMills:
I've done a lot of reasearch on Pangaea for this book... and I've worked on maps.
toesy:
Not everything done by magic, or deities have to be scientifically provable or even probable - this post will boot me now.
JimMills:
Ahhh... but they have means of telling time... and the first humans on Arra came from Earth... <g>
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
And the moon's destined to end up in a Trojan lock. Aldiss - "Hothouse"
robertsloan2:
Oooh Cool. I've got a link to a museum site with a dinosaur lineup by age that I'll give you.
JimMills:
And they find they can manipulate energy on Arra by sheer power of will... magic.
robertsloan2:
Astropolis did you just say the moon god was wearing a trojan?
JimMills:
Maybe you should define a trojan lock, Bob.
JimMills:
I would think it's something to do with settling into a stable orbit?
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
No, Earth's moon can eventually end in a "Trojan Lock", sharing Earth's orbit either 60deg in front or 60 deg behind.
JimMills:
Ahhh... I see.
robertsloan2:
Oooh neat. That's cool to know, Bob.
JimMills:
So the moon is in a fixed position, though the Earth still turns.
JimMills:
That should do interesting things to tides.
Deedlit:
If I drop out, it's because I am trying to stop my isp kicking me out.
toesy:
I think someone has another question....
JimMills:
Ask question, please...
toesy:
Deedlit....
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
JM: Basically, Yes
robertsloan2:
Deedlit's ISP sabotaged it looks like
JimMills:
I guess we'll wait for Deedlit to get back. Meantime, here's an interesting worldbuilding question... where do your gods come from? Have they just 'always existed'?
toesy:
As far as mycharacters are concerned - yes
robertsloan2:
Wow, thanks. No, I wound up with enough backstory about the origins of the gods to create a prehistoric cosmology and some unnamed dead gods in my best world.
writingbear:
The planet I'm currently working on I don't think they have any gods
JimMills:
Ah... well, in Battle Dragon, the gods have been around almost as long as mankind has been on Arra... and they come from mankind.
JimMills:
WB: What do they tell the kids about where we all came from?
JimMills:
And why there are natural phenomena?
writingbear:
But the fantasy that's currently down...the gods not only have been around for ever but have split into two different sides
Deedlit:
back. sorry about that
writingbear:
I think the society is kind of cynical in that they are the killers for the compact
JimMills:
That's often the case -- a reflection of the combative nature of the human condition.
JimMills:
What was your question, Clare?
Deedlit:
it's on a completely different topic..
JimMills:
Go ahead...
toesy:
go for it
writingbear:
plus the way most of the people came to the planet ...definitely NOT the gods
Deedlit:
in the last world I created, there was an event which literally split the world in two, creating two land masses, one of which is hidden - mist or something (not worked out). It is important to the plot that this did happen... but I don;t know why it happened.. any ideas?
JimMills:
was magic or divine intervention involved?
robertsloan2:
You've got gods, Deedlit. They might have agreed to separate jurisdictions and set the mist to enforce that.
JimMills:
Or it could be like Earth... plate tectonics over a vast length of time.
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Why it split or why it's hidden?
Deedlit:
different world robert. but there are gods in this one too.. although I don't want them interferring as much as in Tharnos. so no, I don;t want to gods involved, Jim.
Deedlit:
why it's split to start with.
Deedlit:
that's the important bit.
robertsloan2:
Yeah, and in terms of natural barriers ocean currents can keep people sailing from ever getting past that point.
JimMills:
ok... could be magic gone bad or cast deliberately... or back to world mechanics...
kiarlie:
which world deed?
Deedlit:
world mechanics..
Deedlit:
Teyrnas, Kia.
JimMills:
or an asteroid impact...
Deedlit:
wouldn't that cause lasting damage to the rest of the surrounding land as well?
kiarlie:
deed - is that something i have seen?
robertsloan2:
Or the sinking of a land bridge due to change in ocean level if you want naturalistic division.
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Borrow Greenworld from mine but warm it up a bit.
Deedlit:
no, I don't think so kia.
Deedlit:
greenworld?
toesy:
not if the gods or magic did it it could be done smoothly
JimMills:
probably, yes. It took a long time for life to reestablish itself after the one 65 million years ago.
Deedlit:
ah.. it has to be something that people survive through and have passed the story down through the generations.
JimMills:
(last was in answer to the lasting damage question)
robertsloan2:
Ice ages don't take as much restoration as asteroid impacts though. ANd they lower ocean levels or raise them when it warms. Land bridge is same place as ever. I'm thinking Siberia to Alaska passage as historical example.
toesy:
or australlia and the continent
JimMills:
What are you leaning towards? A sizable asteroid impact would cause windstorms and a long winter... it's happened in recorded history, too.
robertsloan2:
Right, was just thinking the one nearer to me, Dan
toesy:
Deed, you didn't want a catastrophy did you?
JimMills:
Clare: What are you leaning towards?
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Two degree axial tilt, hence a very sharp tropical belt. Fiddle around with the tectonics so that the equator is all water and then tinker with the weather so you get a belt of hot, sticky doldrum calms.
Deedlit:
erm... don't think the asteroid thing would work, simply because to be big enough to split the landmass in two, it would probably create a backlash that destroys everything.
Deedlit:
could people survive an ice age?
toesy:
got to go folk, turning into a pumpkin!
Deedlit:
bye dan.
robertsloan2:
People survived them. And the ice age is a thing that within relatively recent geological history came and went. G'night, Dan
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
That'd stop a sailing ship dead - literally. It'd probably kill the crew. You'd need engines to get through it.
robertsloan2:
But icing up would link the two continents again. Warming would drown the land bridge ending the passage.
kiarlie:
bye dan
JimMills:
Night, Dan...
Deedlit:
would said ice age be long enough for people to not know/forget that the two bits of land were supposed to be seperate?
robertsloan2:
Ah. Microdisaster. Julian May used the creation of the Mediterranean as one in the Pliocene Exile series. A shallow basin that should be a sea is blocked by a natural dam. WHam. Something breaks that rock wall and you have ocean and what had been a continent with a fertile plain now has two sides and a new ocean.
JimMills:
Clare: It could be long enough. Did all that give you any ideas?
robertsloan2:
It takes having a floodplain that's below sea level and protected by natural barriers that go down to some disaster.
Deedlit:
yes, thanks guys. I'll keep quiet now
JimMills:
Any other questions?
kiarlie:
kinda basic one - but where do people start with worldbuilding?
astropolis(Most of Bob Billing):
Midnight and time to change the bandages again. Bye all.
kiarlie:
bye
robertsloan2:
Bye, Bob... hope you feel better
writingbear:
bye
JimMills:
Night, Bob! Thanks! And get well! Start at the beginning... I start with Holly's questions...
Deedlit:
bye bob!
JimMills:
things like what special physics operate on your world? How do they work?
JimMills:
what special creatures or people exist? Why? What's their history? Etc.
JimMills:
Once you've gone through Holly's list, then you're about ready to start plotting.
JimMills:
Does that answer your question, K?
kiarlie:
yeah! thanks
JimMills:
You can download a file to help you get started from:
http://home.att.net/~james.k.mills/World_B.zip
kiarlie:
i think i have that already, but i'll have a look - thanks
JimMills:
You're welcome... ok... I hope you all got something out of my little presentation and the discussion... see you again next week. Bye!
writingbear:
bye
robertsloan2:
I have a question
Deedlit:
bye Jim and thanks
kiarlie:
thanks jim & bye (& what tme next week?)
JimMills:
Go ahead Robert
robertsloan2:
What program do I use to open that file? It stayed zipped and I've got it now and it's asking me what program to use to open it.
JimMills:
K: Same time next week.
Deedlit:
winzip>
JimMills:
Download Winzip from
http://www.Winzip.com
robertsloan2:
Is that supposed to come with Win98? Cool, thanks, Jim.
Deedlit:
unless you have a mac...
JimMills:
No. It's a separate utility. Shareware.
JimMills:
I don't know if they have a Mac version or not.
kiarlie:
ah! yes i have got those, i was reading them before!
Deedlit:
mac's come with stuffit expander.
JimMills:
They're based on one of Holly's articles... and it's helped me a lot !!
Deedlit:
but hey.. at gone midnight it's time for bed! night everyone.
Deedlit:
and thanks again Jim.
kiarlie:
night deed
JimMills:
You're welcome... Night! See you!
http://www.jameskmills.com
Some of my work may be read at my forum: http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/74198)
Mail to: Jim@HollyLisle.com