<@SLViehl> Okay, is everyone back and ready to, um, go?
<Kae> yep
<@SLViehl> Eek, scratch the phone.
<June>
ready
<Anne_Marble> Uh-huh
<James> Ready.
<BlairB> sure
<Gayle> yes...even with burnt dinner...
<@SLViehl> This is the section about Breaking away from the pack, but I'd
like to talk about sex first.
<Anne_Marble> Got my Kid's Kitchen Pizza Wedges with Cheese
<@SLViehl> A lot lot LOT of people think writing a romance means writing a
story with tons of sex scenes in it.
<@SLViehl> And, if you're writing for Kensington's new Brava line, they'd be
right. But mainly, no.
<@SLViehl> Romance is not about sex. It's about love.
<@SLViehl> Lynn Kurland wrote a novel that had one of the most erotic loves
scenes I've ever read, and the hero and heroine were just talking.
<@SLViehl> If you're forcing yourself to write explicit love scenes because
you think it's expected, stop.
<@SLViehl> Write what you're comfortable reading about.
<@SLViehl> Write what you're interested in. Is it important to you? --
that's what you have to ask yourself, not just about the physical part of
your romance, but every aspect of the story.
<@SLViehl> I like writing sensual, sexual stories. I am very comfortable
with it.
<@SLViehl> But I've also been in the medical field and there isn't anything
I haven't seen, touched, shaved, stitched or bandaged.
<@SLViehl> I also like to explore how my hero and heroine relate to each
other inside and outside the bedroom.
<@SLViehl> That's my comfort level. It's not a rule and I don't expect
anyone here to write like me.
<@SLViehl> However, if you are targeting a publisher who wants explicit love
scenes in their romances, you can't skip the sex.
<@SLViehl> Be grown up about it. Remember too, that you're writing about
two people who care about each other. Respect that.
<@SLViehl> Erotica right now is the hottest ticket in town. So hot my agent
asked me to consider writing one.
<@SLViehl> Erotica I consider the hard side of romance, and I really don't
like it, personally.
<@SLViehl> There is a tone to it, I guess, that I don't like. An anti-love
tone, to me.
<@SLViehl> However, if you're into erotica, this market is expanding by the
month.
<@SLViehl> and I define erotica not only by the sexual content -- which is
huge, like 75% of the story -- but by that tone.
<@SLViehl> The hero and heroine use language that you wouldn't find in the
average Harlequin romance. They get really creative sexually, everything
from light bondage to verbal abuse of each other.
<@SLViehl> Some authors veil erotica in historic events, but it's basically
about the hero and heroine doing it in a variety of positions and places
every ten pages or so.
<@SLViehl> And as much as I enjoy sex, I find that very unrealistic. Not
even Superman could keep up with some of these heroines.
<@SLViehl> Keeping in mind the balance of romance and sex is important. For
90% of the publishers out there, it's the story that matters, not the sexual
explicitness.
<@SLViehl> Now, how do you find the diamond within -- your own, unique
voice.
<@SLViehl> First, stop imitating your favorite author. You're going to
become your own favorite author.
<@SLViehl> Think about what you love to read -- romances with angst, humor,
tension?
<@SLViehl> Then ask a friend to tell you what's unique about you
personally -- are you dramatic, funny, empathetic to others?
<@SLViehl> These are the qualities you need to invest in your writing. This
is your voice. It's who you are.
<@SLViehl> When you write, imagine you are your heroine. Make her do and
say what you'd do in that situation.
<@SLViehl> Imagine your hero is a man you'd fall in love with -- what do you
want to see him do, hear him say?
<@SLViehl> You -- not Nora Roberts, not Linda Howard -- you are the
bestselling author now.
<@SLViehl> Take a scene and write it, without editing or stopping, between
these two characters.
<@SLViehl> Write the same scene every week for six weeks (one scene per
week). If you have more time to write, do the same in six days.
<@SLViehl> Don't reread anything you've written before.
<@SLViehl> When you come to the end of the six weeks, compare the first
scene you wrote to the last one you wrote.
<@SLViehl> You'll see how you've honed it, just by repetition.
<@SLViehl> You do the same thing with voice.
<@SLViehl> How unique can you be? As unique as the genre will tolerate, and
boundaries are changing.
<@SLViehl> In the old days, it was Barbara Cartland and the "don't do it
until you're married" school of romance.
<@SLViehl> Today, the hero and heroine don't have to be married.
<@SLViehl> They don't even have to get married.
<@SLViehl> Although we'd like to think they will, eventually.
<@SLViehl> Read what's out there. What is being done in romance is what you
can do.
<@SLViehl> Can you push the envelope? Yes, with conditions.
<@SLViehl> As an unpublished writer, you cannot generally break new ground.
So you can write a story that equals something that has already been
published.
<@SLViehl> i.e. a book with a handicapped heroine who has a hook instead of
hand. Been done.
<@SLViehl> You cannot write a book about a heroine who has been lesbian.
Has not, to my knowledge, been done.
<@SLViehl> I have a romance written about 2 handicapped people who do not
get better during the course of the romance. One's a paraplegic, the other
is blind.
<@SLViehl> My editor is considering it right now.
<@SLViehl> Will I get it published, a double-handicapped love story?
Probably not, but I have a shot because I'm already established. I can
break new ground now.
<@SLViehl> Not fair, certainly, but that's the way it is.
<@SLViehl> Think unique as in twisting the classic romance story.
<@SLViehl> Norman knight storms Saxon castle, wins Saxon daughter's heart.
<@SLViehl> Been done a million times.
<@SLViehl> How about a Norman lady storms Saxon castle, wins Saxon knight's
heart? Haven't read too many of those.
<@SLViehl> Do role reversals. A stay at home Dad meets a tycoon heroine.
<@SLViehl> A sherriff locks up a drifter -- sherriff's a lady, drifter's the
hero.
<@SLViehl> Wildcat heroine falls for Librarian hero.
<@SLViehl> Just remember to keep thinking in new directions while following
the established signposts.
<@SLViehl> QUESTIONS
<June> My problem goes the other way
<June> I want to write MORE sex
<June> than probably should be in there
<June> but it's NOT erotica
<@SLViehl> Try to explore the intimacy in a non-sexual way, June. Let them
express their desires without consummation -- builds great tension.
<@SLViehl> Like hand-feeding each other, or bathing together.
<@SLViehl> Readers love tension.
<Anne_Marble> A sex question... What about safe sex (in contemporaries)? How
do you fit that condom in? (Well you know what I mean.) Some readers hate
contemp. novels without safe sex.
<@SLViehl> I always address safe sex, because a lot of my readers are
teenagers. I feel a certain responsibility toward educating them.
<James> Is there a romantic subgenre in which the setting can be fantastic
in nature, even other-worldy? If so, how fantastic can you be before it
ceases to be romance and becomes fantasy?
<@SLViehl> Sometimes it's not possible for my hero and heroine to have
access to condoms, just like in life, but they still talk about the risks.
<Anne_Marble> It's the health field experience.
<@SLViehl> James, for that type of story, I think you need to focus on the
futuristic publishers. The fantasy elements have to be pretty background to
the relationship. On the other hand, pure fantasy is becoming more open to
romantic stories.
<James> Would you be able to recommend some pure romance with fantastic
elements?
<@SLViehl> I think the balance is 75-25% romance/fantasy for futuristics,
and 20-80% romance/fantasy for straight fantasy.
<june> Computer crashed
<Kae> If I have my heroine say and do things I'd say & do, do I run the risk
of every heroine sounding the same?
<@SLViehl> Nora Roberts has been incorporating a lot of magic/fantasy in her
otherwise straight romances.
<James> Ah, thanks - I'll add her to my reading list.
<@SLViehl> Not if your heroines are in different situations, Kae. You don't
react the same to different people in different places. You've got to
really immerse yourself in your character, though.
<Kae> hmm. ok.
<@SLViehl> There is a certain amount of role-playing involved, but the voice
that comes out will still be you.
<BJ Steeves> Seemed I got dropped too. Hope someones taking "minutes".
<Anne_Marble> I once read an article where a romance editor said that many,
many romances are rejected because the main characters turn out to be
brother and sister as the end! So already, you all have a jump on the
compeition as you are not perverted. ;->
<Kae> eww
<@SLViehl> Ick, really? (making gross sounds)
<James> Has anyone read male-written romance? Are there common
male-romance-writer mistakes that drive you crazy?
<Anne_Marble> This morning, someone posted on one of AAR's boards, asking
for suggestions of love stories between their sons. :-/ The post was
deleted.
<@SLViehl> Assuming women are like men, James. We're not.
<june> The prez of RWA is a man
<june> writes ad Leigh Greenwood, I believe
<Anne_Marble> Does Clarissa Ross count? It's been a while since I read one
of "hers."
<@SLViehl> Some male romance writers, like Nicholas Sparks, assume women
will put up with a lot of nonsense that we don't.
<James> Do you mean low level violence, verbal abuse, that sort of thing?
<Anne_Marble> And the best-selling male romance novelists almost always kill
the woman off at the end!
<@SLViehl> Adultery, slap-fests, yes that sort of thing, and Anne is
absolutely right.
<june> Non-fulfillment of the romance
<@SLViehl> On the other hand, to be fair, some women writers turn their
heroes into complete wimps.
<Anne_Marble> Diana Palmer!
<@SLViehl> trying to make a man who is really their girlfriend
<june> Romance is about
<James> That's all so interesting, the differences. I'll bear all that in
mind.
<june> committment between the man
<june> and the woman
<june> men seem to 'miss' that a lot
<@SLViehl> We should celebrate the differences between the genders, as well
as respect them in our writing. Men and women are not interchangeable, and
we act and speak and do thing differently. It's not a competition, and we
don't want to invalidate either gender as writers.
<Kae> And I can't stand the heroine and hero saying mean things to each
other and then all of a sudden they're in love.
<@SLViehl> Excellent point, Kae
<James> Sheila, I just peeked at Mrs Giggles review of Paradise Island, and
noticed that she mocks the fact that Luke gets erections from looking at the
heroine - does that mean describing male sexual response can be a problem in
romances?
<june> Not for me!!!
<@SLViehl> For Mrs. Giggle, apparently it is. (What's wrong with Luke
having an erection? Sheesh.)
<june> I'm all for erections, personally.
<Kae> sounds like a good reaction to have
<@SLViehl> I'm counting now -- he gets two. See what these reviewers do to
me???
<Anne_Marble> The only time I got annoyed with the erection thing is when
the guy kept getting erections every time he thought of her, in numerous
scenes. zzz
<James> I must admit, she seemed to go over the top about it - but I worried
it might be a general problem for the readership.
<@SLViehl> Men have penises. They get erections. I have no problem with
that.
<Anne_Marble> I mean, she wasn't even there, and he was ... well, happy.
<BlairB> kinda shows his true feelings.
<@SLViehl> Men get hard thinking about women. I have two brothers and two
sons, and two ex-husbands. I know what I'm talking about.
<Anne_Marble> That might have been interesting a couple of times. But it
happened a lot, and yet, he was using her, so I dind't like him.
<@SLViehl> It's the emasculation of the male hero that Mrs. Giggles wants.
He can have an erection when she thinks it's okay, when in reality, it
happens when it happens.
<James> So it won't alarm readers so long as it's not going on every ten
seconds? And so long as it grows naturally (erm, so to speak) from the
characters and the surrounding story?
<@SLViehl> Erections, to my understanding, are not timeable.
<june> Anything that's repetitive in a story
<june> is boring, I think.
<Anne_Marble> And she usually seems to like only sexy romances. Maybe she
only wants sex when they're together.
<june> I don't think it's erections, per say
<@SLViehl> I think men tend to be physically reactive to women. But June's
right, repetition does get dull.
<june> I mean, even if he has a
<june> constant erection the author
<june> doesn't have to mention it
<june> every four pages
<@SLViehl> True, June.
<James> So, as with everything else, sketch that sort of response in, so the
reader knows what you mean but you're not clubbing them over the head with
it.
<@SLViehl> You got it, James.
<june> what an 'interesting' image, James
<Kae> lol
<James> Possibly I should have added a "so to speak..."
<Anne_Marble> Snicker
<@SLViehl> That I'll have stuck in my dirty mind for a while. Let's move on
to Opposites Attract.
<James> Thanks all.
<@SLViehl> We love it when an arson investigator falls for an alleged
arsonist. Or a bad boy takes a dive for a preacher's daughter.
<BJ Steeves> James, all you can say is that they went to bat for you.
<@SLViehl> Opposites attracting means different worlds are set on a
collision course.
<@SLViehl> Behave, Bj, I'm laughing too hard to type this
<BlairB> He's never going to live this down.
<James> lol
<@SLViehl> Tell me if they tease you, James, and I'll give them detention.
<@SLViehl> back to opposites attracting -- when characters in opposition to
each other fall in love, they inevitably face extreme personal dilemmas.
<James> Fear not, I'm remarkably durable to teasing
<@SLViehl> When love conquers that, it renews our faith and trust in the
power of love and romance.
<@SLViehl> and, let's face it, conflict scenes are much more fun to write
than housekeeping scenes.
<@SLViehl> However, there are lines that still may not be crossed with
romance publishers.
<@SLViehl> They're easy to spot -- no incest
<@SLViehl> no homosexual relationships for either the hero or heroine.
<@SLViehl> No threesomes.
<@SLViehl> This may change in the future, but for now, alternative
lifestyles, abusive relationships, or anything that could get your hero and
heroine convicted of a felony is out.
<@SLViehl> The book of your heart versus the book that gets published
<@SLViehl> everyone writes a book from their heart that becomes the book of
their heart.
<@SLViehl> Its usually one of the first books we write, and we invest so
much in it, time, emotion, struggle, that we can't accept that no one will
publish it.
<@SLViehl> generally it doesn't get published because we wrote for
ourselves, and not for the market.
<@SLViehl> You've got to get past this book, or it will strangle you.
<@SLViehl> When you consider the market before you start writing, you're on
your way to getting published
<@SLViehl> so if you can't get it accepted after a reasonable amount of
time, put this book of your heart away
<@SLViehl> and write another book.
<@SLViehl> and write another book after that one.
<@SLViehl> and keep writing.
<@SLViehl> The more books you write, the better you get at writing them.
<@SLViehl> The better writer you become, the closer you get to publication.
That's plain fact.
<@SLViehl> QUESTIONS
<Anne_Marble> How do you make your hero/heroine different enough if they
have similar interests or a similar profession?
<@SLViehl> Give them different backgrounds, Anne. Poor girl, Rich boy.
<Kae> I've seen a lot of couples of different skin color around the area
where I live. Is there anyone writing romances for them?
<@SLViehl> Of the ethnic romances I've read, there are still same-race
lines -- no interracial relationships. Anne, have you seen any? June?
<june> One Silhouette Shadows had
<june> a black heroine and a white hero
<june> that's the only one I recall seeing
<Anne_Marble> I've heard of a few of interracial ones in the ethnic lines.
<@SLViehl> Wait, I've read one Harlequin Presents where the hero was
descended from Island blacks, but was in appearance white.
<@SLViehl> That was a few years ago.
<Anne_Marble> You can't tell from the covers, most of them use those
stylized covers.
<Anne_Marble> There are a more hispanic/white romances. And Indian/white
romances, though many of those are corny noble savage books.
<june> Well Native American heroes is
<june> practically it's own sub-genre
<@SLViehl> I thought I might run over again tonight, would everyone like to
have one more session?
<Anne_Marble> OK
<Kae> sure
<june> sure
<Gayle> okay
<James> Yes, thanks.
<BlairB> sure
<Kae> And thanks for a very (fast) entertaining two hours!
<Kae> How do I save this chat?
<june> Great fun. Thanks Sheila
<Anne_Marble> Thanks! <clap clap clap>
<@SLViehl> I'll ask Holly if we can have the second Friday in November for
part III.
<BlairB> Kae - i have a copy, i can email to you if you want
<@SLViehl> Any other last questions on tonight's material?
<spring> thank you!
<Kae> I just thought if It was needed, I could save the entire chat.
<BJ Steeves> Highlight the address and press CTRL-C for copy, then in your
email program press CTRL-V to paste.
<Anne_Marble> What are your thoughts about "villain sex scenes"
<@SLViehl> I kind of whisk in and out of them, Anne. Maybe because
subconsciously, I don't want the villain to have a good time.
<Anne_Marble> That's a good idea.
Some writers seem to save them for the
kinky stuff. Euww.
<@SLViehl> I have a mild villain sex scene in Dream Mountain, you can see
how I did it in that book.
<James> If I actually try a romance (as I'm kind of thinking I might),
should I pseudonym, because of being, you know, male?
<@SLViehl> James, I personally think men should not take female pseudonyms.
I like to know it's a guy who wrote it.
<James> So you can forgive them their errors?
<@SLViehl> Unfortunately, publishers do not feel the same.
<@SLViehl> I try not to be biased, but I haven't found a male writer I
really like who does romance
<@SLViehl> True. So hurry up and write, James! <g>
<Gayle> that's the spirit James!
<James> Mind you, I've got to do the SF one, yet...
<Anne_Marble> I probably did the kiss of death myself. I wrote my romantic
suspense novel in first person. But it wouldn't come out any other way.
<june> I really liked the Curtis's -- 1/2 male
<@SLViehl> Haven't read too many romances in first person, I have to admit,
Anne.
<Anne_Marble> Oh good. The weirdo who sprayed passengers on a Metro station
was denied bail.
<@SLViehl> Okay, folks, I think that wraps it up. Shall we call it a night?
<Kae> Ok, it's a night. ;-0
<Gayle> sounds good...my shadow just came out wondering...not that we have
any really good movies tonight...
<Anne_Marble> OK, it's a night. Oh, darn! You beat me!
<Kae> heehee
<june> Thanks, Sheila. Have a good night all.
<James> Sure - see everyone next week. Thanks again, Sheila, for a great
session.
<@SLViehl> You guys are such comedians
<Anne_Marble> Bye
<@SLViehl> Good night all.
<Gayle> night everyone...see you in a couple of weeks...
<Kae> Thanks, good night
<@SLViehl> Thanks for letting me spend another Friday night with you!
<BJ Steeves> Getting late here 11:20PM and I'm on 24 hour call all this week
until Monday Morning.
<Anne_Marble> Any time!
<@SLViehl> Thanks, Anne.
<@SLViehl> Go get some sleep, BJ
<BlairB> g'nite all
<@SLViehl> goodnight and see you again soon!
<BJ Steeves> Yeah, and as soon as my eyes are closed, the damned pager will
go off!
<Gayle> oh and if anyone wants to come over for movie night ...you gotta
bring your own soda...I can get the airpopper from my neighbor for popcorn
<Kae> Here's hoping for some good sleep, BJ
<BJ Steeves> Thanks you all, have a good night!
-end of part two-