Professional Writing Workshops at HollyLisle.com
October 17, 2001 -- How to Create Names and Titles
<@SLViehl> Welcome to the Names/Title Workshop, I'm your host, Elizabeth
Sheila Lynn Kelly Gray Chapman Viehl Kelly.
<@SLViehl> Wait, there's an Agnes in there somewhere.
<Grr> Lol.
<Robert> I didn't know you were British royalty...
<Jenny> Amethyst Araminta Adelaide...can't remember the rest. The Ordinary
Princess.
<@SLViehl> This will be an informal, Q&A session on ways and resources to
naming characters, places, and things, as well as how to come up with a
great title for your novel.
<june> If I typed my full name, I'd crash.
<Grr> I'm sticking with this one, since it looks like I'm really here three
times.
<Grr> Titles are my favorites!
<Anne Marble> I sucketh at both names and titles.
<@SLViehl> I thought we'd do names from 9 to 10, and titles from 10 to 11.
Sound good to everyone?
<june> I can do names -- titles are problems
<Grr> Sounds good to me.
<june> okay
<Robert> I have a lot of trouble coming up with titles, but character names
come easy. How do you get those short Eyeball Kicks, Sheila?
<Grr> Hey, that's a record. I've posted four times.
<Gayle> Problem with titles mainly
<Anne Marble> OK
<@SLViehl> Keep hanging in there, Jen.
<Grr> I'll have to remember this name. <g>
<@SLViehl> Names for characters -- the stuff we agonize over probably as
much as the title for the book -- can be as easy or as hard as you want it
to be.
<@SLViehl> One thing I keep noticing is how other writers always want the
name to have an appropriate meaning, when most people don't know what names
mean.
<@SLViehl> Like Sheila -- it means blind.
<@SLViehl> I didn't know that.
<@SLViehl> I know in every book I've read, Sheilas are always secondary
characters, and inevitable bitchy villains.
<Grr> Good point.
<Anne Marble> I used to do that, then I realized my characters were winding
up with stupid names or names that didn't fit the character, like Krysta.
<g>
<Robert> Remind me to change that, Sheila...
<@SLViehl> So I think putting the actual historical meaning of a name on the
back burner is a good idea.
<Grr> Like all the romance novels with St.Clair as one of the characters'
last names?
<Sarah> (The hero in my favourite kid's series was a Sheila)
<june> Sound is what's important to me.
<@SLViehl> Finally, I'm a hero! <g>
<Sarah> <g>
<Gayle> as in sheila the great?
<Sarah> Sheila McCarthy, I think...
<@SLViehl> That's how I feel, June -- sound is more important to me than
meaning.
<Robert> Sounds like queen to me
<Grr> Gayle, that's the one I was thinking of.
<Gayle> by Judith Blum
<Robert> Sheila often comes up slang for 'only female in a hundred miles'
Australian
<@SLViehl> I'll have to move to Australia. I've always wanted to be a
popular girl.
<Robert> You're giving me ideas, want to be tuckerized in November? <G>
<Jenny> Tuckerized?
<@SLViehl> Tuckerizing is naming a character after someone you know, btw,
and sure Robert. Go for it.
<Grr> Aha. I wondered if there was a term for that.
<june> Read a book recently with a
<Robert> Wow, it was on topic.
<@SLViehl> I'm the villain in Carol Lucas's Silhouette novel, due out next
spring, "Connor's Homecoming."
<june> heroine named Britta
<june> I kept thinking 'water softener'
<Grr> Lke the water filter?
<@SLViehl> Britta is a water filter, isn't t?
<Robert> I'm wondering "Poisoner?
<Grr> Lol
<@SLViehl> See, June, we all had the same reaction
<Jenny> Brita. Good stuff.
<Grr> Yep!
<june> I think that can be a problem
<@SLViehl> Names mostly feel right, when I'm working on creating them
<Anne Marble> When I was young and didn't have a great vocabulary yet, I
ended up with a character living in the Land of Clout. Well, it sounded like
a fake word... And his name was Gorok!
<june> How do you mean 'feel', Sheila?
<Grr> My first land was called Cairbre.
<@SLViehl> I try it out by yelling at my character. I.E. "Cherijo, get your
butt in here! Now!"
<@SLViehl> If it sounds right, June, it feels right.
<june> I agree. They also have to
<Robert> Naming cats is dangerous. Name one after a fictional master thief
and he'll get in the fridge. Or anything.
<Anne Marble> If you can't pronounce it, you probably don't want to use it.
If readers will have a hard time pronouncing it, ditto.
<june> look good on paper, I think.
<@SLViehl> One thing I do is keep a continuous name notebook. Every time I
hear or read a cool name, it goes in the notebook.
<Grr> I used to have one of those. Gave it up when it got to be 400 pages
long.
<@SLViehl> Good point, Anne -- if the reader can't pronounce it, they aren't
going to retain it in their mind.
<Gayle> Had a roommate name my cat....got into lots of trouble over that
when someone was at the door and I was attempting to keep the silly cat
in...
<Robert> Sometimes I look at my bookshelves and jumble author names.
<@SLViehl> I have a few very sly tricks I use which aren't in any of the
how-to books I've read.
<Anne Marble> Whoops, might have Explorer problems.
<Anne Marble> Am I still here?
<june> Tricks? Cool.
<june> yes Anne
<@SLViehl> I can see you, Anne.
<Robert> Yes, I see you. Sheila, the tricks!
<@SLViehl> Okay. Trick #1: take a common word and spell it backwards.
<Grr> I do that.
<@SLViehl> Lor-Etselock in StarDoc is cholesterol, slightly corrupted,
spelled backwards
<Grr> And names too.
<Anne Marble> Cool!
<@SLViehl> Why? Because he was fat.
<Grr> Great!
<Anne Marble> How come when I do that, I end up with characters named Siwel?
<@SLViehl> You've got to play with other-than-name words, like platinum =
munitalp
<Gayle> that's happening in gasoline ally right now with one of the
characters...
<@SLViehl> And you can switch and insert letters as necessary to modify the
end product spelling.
<Grr> I can't remember the one I really liked.
<Grr> I always thought Piers Anthony did good with Natasha .
<@SLViehl> Trick #2 -- Use a personal metaphor
<Anne Marble> laerec -- it works!
<Grr> There you go!
<@SLViehl> There you go, Anne -- that sounds good.
<Robert> When I named the wind god Ahassh I was just going for 'sounds like
wind sighing'
<Grr> To me, that would be hard to pronounce, Robert.
<Grr> I am still here. ::shakes head in wonderment::
<Anne Marble> So am I, though I keep being told that IE has crashed.
<Robert> Point taken and if I do things like that I should put
pronounciation guides in.
<Jenny> Shh. Don't jinx it.
<@SLViehl> I had a celebrity in mind when I named Kao, the hero I killed off
in my first novel. I made his name out of the first letter of the
celebrity's first name, and the last letter of his last name, and spelled it
phonetically.
<@SLViehl> K.O. for Kevin Sorbo, and as it happens, K.O. also means
Knockout.
<Robert> Dean Koontz did a character who changed his name constantly during
Dark Rivers of the Heart and eventually explained it was jumbling first and
last names of old movie stars.
<@SLViehl> That's about as complicated as I get with naming characters.
<Grr> Yep, I remember that.
<Anne Marble> I sometimes do lists of neat names and see which ones fit
together. That'
<@SLViehl> I think SF and fantasy writers have much more room to operate in
versus romance writers.
<Anne Marble> s how I got Sebastian Gregoire. Fantasy has been harder for me
because that's where I can create some stupid names.
<june> I want fantasy names to
<Grr> Really? I'd think they'd be about the same.
<@SLViehl> I like Sebastian -- I like the shortened form, Bastian, too.
<june> sound like they could come from
<june> the same world
<@SLViehl> Sounds like a guy with fangs.
<Robert> It does and one I wrote years ago IS Sebastian - fanged
<Jenny> It's the kid from The Neverending Story.
<Grr> I had a vampire Sebastian too.
<BlairB> his friends could call him Baz
<Anne Marble> No, just a cloud of suspicion over his head.
<@SLViehl> June, what I tried to do with the Jorenians in StarDoc was
pattern the names after the Hawaiian alphabet -- I limited the number of
letters I could use, and juggled them.
<june> My only vampire was named
<@SLViehl> So they all end up sounding like they're from the same planet.
<june> Savario Visconti
<Grr> He sounds Italian, June.
<Anne Marble> I called his former mother-in-law Constance Wynter. It fit her
personality. Shudder.
<Robert> A title for a last name. Sounds like Lady de Winter from
Musketeers, fits.
<@SLViehl> That's an incredible imagery name, Anne.
<Anne Marble> But the heroine of the novel is boring old Laurel (named after
a place in Maryland). zzz
<Robert> Ragnarok as a woman, yah. Constantly Wintry.
<Grr> That is a good name!
<Grr> Every-woman?
<june> He was Italian, Jen
<@SLViehl> Trick #3 -- and this may help you, Anne -- give the character an
ordinary name, then refer to them by a nickname throughout most of the
novel.
<Grr> Cool, June. Just checking.
<@SLViehl> Kathryn Anne Tremayne in Paradise Island spends 95% of the book
being called Jade because she's lost her memory and all she has on her is a
jade ring.
<Anne Marble> That could work! Laurel is an artist. Maybe she could get
named after a favorite paint...
<Grr> Webster in Second Coming is called Webster because he carries around a
dictionary...
<@SLViehl> In Blade Dancer, I have seven main characters -- Sajora, Jakol,
Nalek, Osrea, Danea, Renor, and Galena
<@SLViehl> No way are you going to be able to remember those names.
<@SLViehl> But you might remember Jory, Kol, Nal, Snake-Boy, Sparky,
Plas-Face and Birdie.
<@SLViehl> If I had an artist character, Anne, I'd nickname her something
like Picasso
<BlairB> or pica
<Anne Marble> Oooh, that would work.
<@SLViehl> It reinforces the character's occupation, and lets the reader
have some fun.
<Robert> Article on hobos, one of the guys said "Anyone who can read gets
called Doc."
<@SLViehl> Plus Laurel doesn't have to like it.
<Grr> Grandma Moses... <g>
<Robert> So my hobo character who didn't like Doc got a tattoo and became
Steamboat Willy.
<Anne Marble> I named several of my secondary characters after musicians,
primarily keyboardists. Koopman, Bernstein, Brendel, etc.
<@SLViehl> I've read a couple of articles that recommend giving your
secondary characters memorable names because often the name is 75% of what
the reader gets to know about them.
<Grr> True.
<Anne Marble> I read about a writer who gave secondary characters
"temporary names" to make it easier to write the first draft. He named all
the cops after types of cheese! "Look, here comes Officer Brie!"
<Anne Marble> In the final draft, only Officer Camebert retained his cheesy
name.
<@SLViehl> One more recommendation -- keep an alphabetical list of names
you've already used for the novel, so you don't end up with five characters
whose first names all start with the letter "S" or "J"
<Anne Marble> Do you recommend doing that, or is it too hard to come up with
new names in the later drafts?
<Anne Marble> Oooh, good idea, I once ended up with a Lila Laural and Lane
in one draft.
<@SLViehl> That's good for outlining, but I think when you get into writing
you really need to know the character's names.
<Jenny> I noticed recently I have four A names in my WIP. Blechh.
<Grr> I don't have that problem, usually.
<Robert> I noticed recently I have a disturbing tendency to Empress Z. in
different periods.
<Anne Marble> What about characters whose names end with the letter "S"?
<Grr> Or rhyme...
<Jenny> Or -a for girls.
<@SLViehl> I can't tear myself away from the letter "J" so I have to do the
alphabetical thing.
<Sarah> I have the same problem with K
<@SLViehl> Name endings, syllable length, all of that you have to keep an
eye on.
<Grr> You don't want to end up like my Grandma who named all her kids Jerry,
Larry, Harry, etc.
<Anne Marble> I once had a chacter named Demas, and while it's a cool name,
writing possessives takes forever! "Demas' sword? Demas's sword? Argh!"
<Robert> I started deliberately using some odd letters to start names and
with that much written, am going to weave in the Z Empresses to where
'that's culturally kind of a power name for a girl'
<@SLViehl> I recently discovered I name almost all my romance villains with
double-consonant syllable breaks.
<Anne Marble> Hee hee, now we'll be able to guess who did it.
<Grr> Just as long as you haven't used St.Clair
<Robert> Oh my villain for many books was in my notes Lecter Moriarty Flagg
and I kept his initials when I named him.
<Anne Marble> I've been on St. Claire Avenue.
<@SLViehl> Whenever you see a Willis or a Trammer or a Cutton in my books,
that's the bad guy.
<Robert> When I do you Jen, it has to be in an herbal. "The St. Clair bush
is a flowering shrub with the following medicinal properties..."
<Grr> So have I. And I've been to St.Clairsville, but I keep finding
Sinclairs and St.Clairs in romance novels.
<@SLViehl> Jen, I did use a St. name in my most recent romance -- and this
was a cool way to come up with a name, too. Valence St. Charles -- an
orphan from New Orleans who was found on the corner of Valence and St.
Charles in the Garden District.
<Grr> It's like a whole branch of the family I never knew about. <g>
<@SLViehl> But generally I stay away from the Saints.
<Anne Marble> Valence! A postitive charge? Or a negative charge? Or a little
curtain?
<Grr> Cool!
<Robert> So do I, too many drunks from Bourbon following them.
<Grr> Or if it had an ia on the end... an orange!
<@SLViehl> So check out a city map -- you might find some interresting
intersections.
<Robert> Though that brings up a fantasy world I want to do, city, where all
the French Quarter street names just translate to English and I eliminate
electricity, then use the real Quarter denizens for a city like Lankhmar
type.
<Sarah> People have to stop naming villains after elements...
<Sarah> Xenon, Boron, Argon...
<@SLViehl> (I call her Val throughout the book. Valence makes me think of
Prince Valiant, for some reason.)
<Robert> The Street of the Young Prince, the Street of Dark Wine, it sounds
like a fantasy city.
<@SLViehl> lol, Sarah
<Anne Marble> I told someone at work I was going to name my characters after
scientists whose papers drove me nuts, and she told me I'd have too many
characters.
<Grr> Lol, Anne.
<@SLViehl> Trick #4 -- Name things after your friends, ala the Tuckerisms.
<Grr> One of my favorite character names I haven't used yet came from a
forwarded email I got.
<@SLViehl> I name space ships after my friends -- once I have their
permission.
<Grr> Did that too!
<Robert> You've got mine, just don't do a cancer center after me, there's a
real one.
<Gayle> well...I was playing with Valence and came up with V'lence,
V'len...and so on and so forth
<@SLViehl> E-mail handles can be interesting sources -- who wouldn't want to
write about a Marijor?
<Grr> Yep.
<Robert> Reminds me of memorable character name George Orr or jorjor as
aliens prnounced it...
<@SLViehl> Acronyms -- Cherijo stands for Comprehensive Human Enhancement
Research ID "J" Organism.
<Sarah> I pull a lot of ship names from songs... (eg, the submersible
Orinoco)
<Anne Marble> (Hmmm, the spaceship Falco. <g>)
<@SLViehl> But I had to make up the acronym meaning, because there really is
a Cherijo out there who graciously allowed me to borrow her beautiful name.
<Grr> That works well!
<Robert> I name ships in character. Aida was named after opera. Aristarchus
and a bunch of them Moon craters. Demeter, Hecate, Diana a colony trio
goddesses.
<Sarah> Asclepuis is a medship...
<@SLViehl> You don't know how LONG it took me to figure out what the letters
of Cherijo should stand for as an acronym!
<Grr> And make it fit into the story... yes. I can imagine!
<Anne Marble> That's one thing that's harder to do in fantasy, naming stuff
after characters from
our opera or mythology. :-/
<@SLViehl> Those are great names, Robert. I named the ancient Chinese ships
in PI after actual Chinese words for "sandcastle" and "seashell"
<Robert> Brings a lot of backstory onstage, Anne, but if you're doing the
centuries leap thing means you can reuse a name.
<Robert> Coool... really neat, Sheila. I can see I need a Chinese
dictionary. I do anyway.
<Grr> I collect dictionaries.
<@SLViehl> Why not take myth names, Anne, and alter them a little? Like
Aphrodite becomes, with a little fiddling . . .Erodytii
<Anne Marble> Did anybody here read the Deeds of Paksinarrion (sp?)??
Elizabeth Moon recycled names for secondary characters. It made sense
because if you were in the military, a lot of people would have common
names.
<Robert> I named the main goddess Vala not realizing a "vala" was a Norse
seer or wisewoman.
<@SLViehl> I have a dictionary I use more than anything -- it lists common
words and phrases in seventeen languages. Really helps.
<Grr> Or you could do what John Uri Lloyd did, and spell it backwards...
<Robert> And with it that short started doing derivations like Valderin or
Valdera meaning "kid no one knows the parents" or gift of the Goddess.
<@SLViehl> I like balance in naming, though -- great and interesting names I
make up, along with classic, well known names, seem to work better for me.
<Anne Marble> My local library's summer reading mascot one year was Nrocinu
the Backwards Unicorn. Actually the pronounciation they used (Norokinu)
wasn't that bad. (the kids came up with it.)
<@SLViehl> Tell you what, why don't we take a five minute break, and go for
snacks/tea/bathroom?
<Robert> Ahassh isn't that hard to pronounce - Aha - shh
<Grr> I spent an entire summer speaking and writing in mirror-language, so
I'm pretty good at that. <g>
<Anne Marble> I'll restart Internet Explorer.
<@SLViehl> Oh, that's pretty Anne. I like that.
<Anne Marble> Might use it sometime..
<Grr> Works for me!
<Anne Marble> Wish me luck!
<@SLViehl> BRB, off to heat up the kettle. Luck, Anne!
<Robert> brb
<Grr> brb
<Sarah> The two really unpronouncable names I have are done so intentionally
<Sarah> Ceratythithinovar, who hates her name and won't answer to anything
but Cera most of the time
<@SLViehl> I'd hate to be her Mom and have to call her into dinne.
<@SLViehl> dinne=dinner
<Sarah> and Xannachbyllbharwyddian, who is the demi-god of chaos and uses it
on purpose. (Her mother called her Cera, her father picked the name and
left)
<@SLViehl> T'Nliqinara was about the worst I've done to my readers.
<Sarah> How do you pronounce that?
<Robert> Demons need REALLY unpronounceable names.
<@SLViehl> Tin-ah-leek-ah-nah-rah
<Sarah> (Zanna - kvill - var - wythian)
<@SLViehl> I wanted something large and in charge, like she was.
<Sarah> <g> Cool! It'll be easier to read now.
<@SLViehl> Whew, what a mouthful, Sarah.
<Sarah> <g> Yup. He enjoys watching people struggle with it.
<@SLViehl> I'd call him Xan and tell him to get over it.
<@SLViehl> I borrowed a pair of beautiful names for StarDoc book six --
Teulon and Resa
<Sarah> Yeah, but then he'd probably take an interest in throwing chaos into
your life, which is driving my MC nuts.
<Sarah> <waiting impatienly for book 4 to come out>
<@SLViehl> I'd make him watch my kids. Teach him a thing or two about
chaos.
<@SLViehl> BRB
--end of part one--