Professional Writing Workshops at HollyLisle.com
10/19/01 -- How to Break into the Science Fiction Novel Market (Continuation)
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<@SLViehl> Well, let me intro here and get started, since I've made you all
wait.
<@SLViehl> Welcome to How to Break into the Science Fiction Novel Market,
I'm your host, S.L. Viehl (Sheila)
<@SLViehl> This session is a continuation of the workshop we had on 9/21,
and the transcript of the first class is available, on the transcript board.
Info is
posted on the discussion board.
<BklynWriter> hello everyone
<@SLViehl> Welcome, we're just getting started, BklynWriter
<@SLViehl> To give you a brief rundown of what we talked about last time:
<BklynWriter> i had a little trouble getting in, but everything is fine now
<@SLViehl> Me too, must be a system thing, then.
<@SLViehl> At the last session, we discussed the state of the SF/F genre
<@SLViehl> What's being written, and what needs to be written, before we
write ourselves out of the market
<@SLViehl> Some ways to defy the daunting statistics
<@SLViehl> Who's buying what, and what they want to buy
@SLViehl> The pros and cons of the short story markets, along with stats on
the top three mags out there
<@SLViehl> What's hot, what's not, and how to target the market.
<@SLViehl> Tonight we're going to discuss SF convention circuits, and
submitting your work effectively.
<@SLViehl> Also, if you have any questions that are holdovers from the last
session, feel free to bring them up.
<@SLViehl> I have two announcements for people who are writing SF short
stories -- two anthology opportunities are open, and you should consider
them.
<@SLViehl> One is Beyond the Last Star, edited by Sherwood Smith. Details
are available on SFF.net, and I also posted a link on the markets board.
<@SLViehl> The other is Low Port anthology, edited by Sharon Lee and Steve
Miller, published by Meisha Merlin. Details are available on Locus mag
online site, and I will be posting a link on the market board after the
session.
<@SLViehl> Both anthologies are open to submissions from unagented and
unpublished writers, so if you've got a story that fits the guidelines, or
want to write for them, go for it.
<@SLViehl> These are paying gigs.
<@SLViehl> Welcome, Jinx!
<Jinx> Hello! Sorry I'm late.
<@SLViehl> No problem. Is everyone ready to dive into SF conventioning?
<Cailin> Yep.
<Kaelle> yep
<BklynWriter> Yes. Where do you begin???
<James> Yep!
<@SLViehl> SF conventions are very popular among published and unpublished
SF writers. They are like the Kentucky Derby is to a guy who bets on
horses.
<@SLViehl> These are, without exception, fan-targeted. The reason they have
them is for SF fans.
<@SLViehl> But what's in it for you, the SF writer?
<@SLViehl> Some opportunities are out there. A chance to meet an editor in
person, for example.
<@SLViehl> A chance to network with other aspiring writers, and possibly,
published authors.
<@SLViehl> But never forget that the SF convention is geared toward the fan,
and a showcase for the published author.
<@SLViehl> If you are unpublished, this is not you.
<@SLViehl> Many, many, MANY authors present workshops and participate on
discussion panels at these events. Attending these workshops and panels
provides a semi-educational opportunity.
<BklynWriter> ..
<@SLViehl> Mostly, it provides an opportunity for the author to sell you on
their book.
<@SLViehl> or themselves.
<@SLViehl> I've had the chance to see two kinds of conventions -- romance,
and SF.
<@SLViehl> The romance conferences are well attended by mainly professional
type writers interested in pursuing a career, or promoting what they have.
<@SLViehl> The SF conventions are, at times, three ring circuses. There's a
lot of unprofessional behavior going on, by people who are in very tight
cliques, so if you decide to attend, be cautious.
<@SLViehl> If you'd like to contact a particular author at one of these
events, I suggest you go to their booksigning.
<@SLViehl> Buy a book, and you buy about two to five minutes of conversation
with them.
<BklynWriter> i was just about to ask you about the clique-ish atmosphere.
if I were to attend, as a newbie, would i be "shunned"?
<@SLViehl> It's pretty cheap, considering you only pay $6.99 to 25.99 for
the honor.
<@SLViehl> It depends on who you talk to, and how you present yourself, BW.
Generally, they want acolytes who pay lip service, not upstarts who want to
rock the boat.
<@SLViehl> You can ask authors general questions, and they will, according
to their personalities, respond in various ways.
<@SLViehl> I'd pitch my idea for a book in ten words or less, then ask the
author if they happen to know an editor who would be interested in looking
at it.
<@SLViehl> This is the kind of info you need to get, and the kind of contact
you want to make.
<@SLViehl> Editors who attend SF conv. usually hang out at the bar and hold
court.
<@SLViehl> Go there, drink soda, and watch name tags.
<@SLViehl> Be familiar with the latest releases of that editor's imprint.
If you wanted to talk to Laura Anne Gilman of Roc, for example, you should
know she edits me, Anne Bishop, Dennis McKiernan, etc. You should at least
know what we write to get an idea of what she likes.
<@SLViehl> You don't have to buy the books -- just go to the bookstore, pick
up the latest Roc releases and read the first page, or the cover copy.
<@SLViehl> When you approach the editor, be subtle. Get them to talk about
themselves and what they're publishing.
<Jenny> Don't they have people coming up and being subtle all the time?
<@SLViehl> Look for an "in" while they're talking about their work. If
Laura Anne brings up a line of medical SF she's working on, that would be
the time to mention you've got a medical thriller.
<@SLViehl> Editors attract writers like honey attracts flies. You've got to
be really low-key about it, Jenny.
<@SLViehl> Be interested in them. It's always good to know an editor, and
they love to talk about themselves.
<Sarah> I think a lot of it depends on the atmosphere of the con, too.
Everyone at the ICFA was great (granted, that's a conference, not a
convention...)
<@SLViehl> Have a business card you can hand him or her if you've gotten to
the end of the conversation, in case they ask for one.
<James> Have I disappeared, or has everyone else?
<@SLViehl> Hi James, we can see you
<Cailin> I see you, James.
<Kaelle> What should the business card say?
<BklynWriter> I was under the impression that writers with biz cards
was...um ... tacky
<@SLViehl> Nothing fancy, Kaelle -- your name, contact info, e-mail, phone,
address, and a one liner on what you write.
<Kaelle> ok, thanks
<@SLViehl> Mine says novelist, because I work in more than one genre.
<@SLViehl> I should throw a QUESTIONS up here, just to be official about it.
<Sarah> BW - I got asked for them all the time at ICFA -- I really wish I'd
known beforehand to have them.
<@SLViehl> Not if an editor asks you for one, BK. If you don't have one on
hand, you look like a rookie.
<Sarah> Ahem...
<James> Is "What did I miss?" a question?
<Anne_Marble> Which magazine is better for learning editor names and the
like? SF Chronicle? Or Locus?
<@SLViehl> And you don't have to invest a lot of money in business cards --
you can buy the forms and make them yourself on the printer.
<@SLViehl> Sorry, Sarah.
<BklynWriter> ok...contact info, nothing fancy, right?
<Sarah> That's okay, I WAS a rookie.
<Anne_Marble> How about "Anybody want some Tandoor Chicken?"
<BklynWriter> I can do that! <g>
<@SLViehl> We'll get you a transcript, James/
<@SLViehl> Anne, I think either can be helpful, but Locus probably has the
most uptodate info.
<Anne_Marble> SFC has more book reviews, though. :->
<James> Thanks
<@SLViehl> Nothing fancy, Bk, no pictures or cutesy stuff on the card.
Plain, a discreet color like white or ivory, with easy to read print.
<BklynWriter> I like the tone of SF Chronicle. Don [i wont try to spell his
last name] doesn't try to "talk down" to his readers
<@SLViehl> I like that Don guy, he named my book as the best debut novel of
2000. <g>
<BklynWriter> and he's from Brooklyn <g>
<Blair> I've never heard of either of those mags... are they available
anywhere?
<@SLViehl> Sure. SF Chronicle you can subscribe to online, as well as
locus. I'll send you the links, Blair, I can't remember them off the top of
my head.
<Blair> thanks
<Anne_Marble> Usually just in really big bookstores or in speciality shops.
And mail order -- sometimesthe publisher of SF Chronicle has free
giveaways.
<Sarah> Blair - I had to find Locus at the SF specialty bookstore in
Toronto
<BklynWriter> SF chronicle can be hard to find sometimes. Don did it all on
his own - i applied for a job as his assistant a few years ago
<Sarah> (They were impressed that I was in it. <g>)
<Jinx> There are no doubt some of us <raises her hand> who would have no
interest in "doing" the con circuits, should we ever get published. Is this
a hindrance in any way?
<@SLViehl> Ah, so you already have a contact, Bk
<Anne_Marble> They have a new publisher now and might be easier to find. DNA
Publications publishes SFC.
<@SLViehl> No, Jinx. I don't go to SF conventions anymore. I have no
problem selling books.
<@SLViehl> In fact, I've never gone to any since I've been published.
<Anne_Marble> Yeah, I just bought two more tonight!
<Jinx> Oh, good. :-}
<Sarah> I'm not published, but I've been asked to speak at one in February,
and I have NO idea what I'm in for....
<@SLViehl> Okay, on to how to present yourself at these events --
<@SLViehl> Kissing butt or maintaining distance? Which is the worse evil?
<BklynWriter> re: your comment about pubbed SF authors.....I emailed Mike
Resnick out of the blue, and he was terribly nice, I was surprised
<@SLViehl> There are exceptional people out there. Most, however (and this
is my opinion) are not nice to aspiring writers.
<@SLViehl> Unless you purchase a book.
<Sarah> (For an idea of those who are, check out the attendace of the ICFA)
<James> ICFA?
<@SLViehl> Sarah, give us the info on this one
<Sarah> International Conference on the Fantastic in the Arts
(www.iafa.org). Everyone there was really supportive of the tensors (Asimov
Award Winners). Especially Sean Stewart. <g>
<Sarah> And Ellen Datlow is amazing.
<@SLViehl> Thanks, Sarah, it's good to know there are some supportive-type
events.
<Jinx> Oooh.. someone I actually know (my husband used to work with Sean's
wife).
<@SLViehl> When you're presenting yourself at these events, try to maintain
a healthy distance, but talk to people -- and not just editors and pubbed
writers. You never know whose wife or husband you may be talking to.
<@SLViehl> Don't be pushy, don't gush, don't act like a fan or a hopeful.
Act like you're among peers.
<@SLViehl> Because you are. Being published and being an editor does not
make someone better than you.
<@SLViehl> Always remember that.
<@SLViehl> You can also make contacts by volunteering at a convention. They
always need people to help out.
<@SLViehl> If you volunteer to be a room moderator, for example, you'll
probably get a few minutes before and after a workshop/panel to talk with
the author(s).
<@SLViehl> Again, keep it very low key and subtle.
<@SLViehl> Then there are the local SF writer associations, clubs, groups,
etc. who herd together at these events.
<@SLViehl> These are mostly made up of fans, or short story writers.
<@SLViehl> If there is one that happens to be close to your hometown at the
convention, it won't hurt to introduce yourself.
<@SLViehl> Again, you're making contacts. I just wouldn't expect too much.
<@SLViehl> Agents -- rarely do you get an opportunity to pitch an agent at a
SF convention, unless you've arranged to meet them there ahead of time.
<@SLViehl> Check out who is planning to attend the convention you're going
to, and write to the agent ahead of time.
<@SLViehl> Ask if you can meet there, and talk about possible
representation.
<@SLViehl> It's very difficult to get any hard work done at the standard
convention, but with some judicious politicking, you may be able to
establish some contacts. Try out a local con before you go for something
big like WorldCon, because it can be really expensive.
<@SLViehl> QUESTIONSN
<@SLViehl> strike that last N
<@SLViehl> No questions? Shall we press on?
<Cailin> Okay.
<Blair> sure
<BklynWrite> yes
<Anne_Marble> Sure. <gloat>This bread is still warm.</gloat>
<James> Sure - I feel I ought to have questions but I can't think what they
are
<Jenny> I don't know enough to have questions.
<@SLViehl> Hey, just means I'm explaining this stuff okay, to me, anyway.
<@SLViehl> Common and uncommon mistakes to avoid when submitting
<Sarah> Oh, I think I have one!
<BklynWrite> i agree with Jenny
<@SLViehl> go ahead Sarah
<Sarah> Do you have any idea what I can expect at Ad Astra? I know Russell
wants me to speak on something (since I'm listed on the program participant
list), but I'm not sure what. Probably the Asimov Award.
<Sarah> Ad Astra is a local con, somewhere above Toronto Trek (according to
Rob Sawyer)
<Jenny> Cool, Sarah.
<@SLViehl> I've heard some good things about that one, it's on the small
side, and the smaller cons tend to be a lot friendlier.
<@SLViehl> It's also good to start out with small cons and work your way up
to the huge ones.
<James> As an observation - I'm not sure I want to run the risk of being
gutted by a Harlan Ellison for his amusement, or to spend a day subtly
stroking writers and editors for tips. It sounds too predatory... You may
have just talked me out of ever attending a convention!
<Kaelle> Oy. The only two SF conventions I went to were WorldCons. <g.
<@SLViehl> I'd rather see you spend your money on writing and submitting,
James. I just don't think cons are cost effect for the aspiring writer.
<James> Just another red herring scattered by the side of a wise career
path?
<@SLViehl> Think of it this way -- if you spend $500 on attending WorldCon,
you can spend the same on getting a better printer. Or sending out 50
submissions.
<Sarah> ICFA was fairly small, too.
<Sarah> (wishes she were as good at schmoozing as Lena DeTar)
<Anne_Marble> Oooh, laser printer. Faster.
<@SLViehl> Some people think you have to get into cons and cliques to be
successful in SF. I haven't, I don't, and I'm hitting the Locus BSL.
<BklynWrite> i think i'd much rather attend a con as a fan, as opposed to as
a writer
<@SLViehl> I think that's best, Bk. You'll have more fun that way, believe
me.
<James> Cliques tend to send me into a rage, I'm afraid, so I don't think
I'd be fun...
<Kaelle> I attended as many panels as I could. I learned a lot.
<@SLViehl> If it helps you as a writer, I'm all for it, Kaelle.
<Kaelle> I enjoyed myself immensely.
<@SLViehl> And remember, this is all my opinion. If you want to try out
going to a small con, you may find, like Kaelle, it really helps you. Then
you can come back and tell me to jump in a lake. <g>
<BklynWrite> what is your opinion of gen. writing conferences
<@SLViehl> I went to my last conference in July, Bk. I've sworn off them
for good.
<@SLViehl> For all genres.
<BklynWrite> lol
<@SLViehl> I've also stopped doing booksignings and making speeches. I do
teach kids, though, because I love that.
<@SLViehl> But that has a lot to do with my personal comfort level with the
whole author business.
<Sarah> I'm trying to win the Asimov award again so I can go back to the
ICFA (cause affording the registration is hard), but I'd probably go again
even If I don't win.
<@SLViehl> I'd like to see more cons give memberships and waive fees for
aspiring writers.
<Sarah> I think that's half the reason Rick wants me to plug the award at Ad
Astra.
<@SLViehl> Shall we take a five minute break, folks?
<James> Sure.
<Blair> sure
<Kaelle> yes
<Cailin> Sure.
<@SLViehl> BRB, I'm making some tea.
<Anne_Marble> OK, I can finish my nice warm Indian bread and get some milk
to go with my nice, warm Indian bread...
<Sarah> <wishes they'd update the Ad Astra website...>
<BklynWrite> gotta go play Mom for a minute....the tribe is restless and
wants to play Diablo II
<@SLViehl> I want to move in with Anne so she'll feed me. :)\
<Jinx> <glares at Ann for good measure about the nice warm Indian bread>
<Kaelle> She does mention a lot of interesting food, doesn't she?
<Jenny> My brother just sent me a message on ICQ that his girlfriend's
cooking him dinner.
<Anne_Marble> Bwah hah hah.
<@SLViehl> Now I want to go make bread.
<Kaelle> yeah....
<Sarah> Wow, I'm almost glad my appetite's gone again...
<@SLViehl> Honey whole wheat with a little oatmeal sprinkled on top.
<Kaelle> mmmm
<Blair> i just had a chocolate brownie
<@SLViehl> or cornbread. I love cornbread in the morning. Anne, I'm going
to bake tomorrow, because of you. <g>
<Anne_Marble> And for desert, I have more Indian bread stuffed with fruit &
nuts. (I wanted to explore the cuisine.) I left the wine in the car, though.
<@SLViehl> Blair is a chocoholic, I think.
<Kaelle> ooh, cornbread. And chili. I have to cook tomorrow. !
<BklynWrite> mmmmm....chili
<Jinx> I suppose I could make cinnamon bread.....
<Kaelle> lol
<Sarah> There's a breadmaker downstairs that I fully intend to exploit when
I'm better.
<Anne_Marble> Whoops, that container was rice. Maybe I left the desert bread
in the car, too.
<@SLViehl> I love my breadmaker.
<Anne_Marble> My mother has a dough hook but no breadmaker. She's a rebel.
<Jinx> <agrees with Sheila> I don't use mine nearly enough.
<@SLViehl> I have kids, so I had to have a breadmaker.
<Anne_Marble> Ooooh, I just found the desert bread.
<@SLViehl> Now she's going to torture us with descriptions of this bread.
<@SLViehl> Bread sadist.
<Blair> <covers eyes>
<Anne_Marble> <ducking from the paper clips everyone is throwing at me>
<Jenny> Why do these conversations always turn to food?
<Cailin> ~likewise covers her eyes~
<Blair> <peeking>
<@SLViehl> I was just thinking that, Jenny. We always end up talking about
food during the break.
<Jinx> <doesn't mention her Old South Fudge Pie ice cream she's eating>
<Blair> <scoff>
<Cailin> ~lobs a pen lid at Jinx~
<Kaelle> I think Anne always starts it, too. <g>
<@SLViehl> Yep, Anne's an instigator.
<Sarah> Aw nuts. It looks like I'm riceless for the weekend again.
<@SLViehl> Send out for Chinese.
<Anne_Marble> I'm eeeevil. You know, maybe I should start a new trend,
fantasy novels with recipes. It worked for what's-her-face with the food
mysteries.
<@SLViehl> Or is it bug-related?>
<Jenny> You'd have to come up with some exotic recipes...but that could be
fun.
<Kaelle> great idea, Anne
<Jenny> Or maybe just gruel, if it's a novel about peasants.
<Sarah> There's a rice meal from Loblaws that's great when I'm nauseated,
but Emily forgot to pick it up before she left.
<BklynWrite> are they difficult to use [breadmakers]
<Anne_Marble> If the Dragonlance people can put out recipes...
<@SLViehl> Okay, I'm determined to finish this workshop tonight, so let's
get back to work.
<Anne_Marble> (They had to make some adjustments to Raistlin's brew...)
<@SLViehl> Breadmakers aren't hard to use at all, Bk, they're a blessing.
-end of part one-