<@zette> Okay! Welcome to the Keeping it Short Class!
<bklynWriter> ready. music queued
<@zette> Feel free to ask questions at any time, but try to keep them at least vaguely in the same area of what I'm covering. I should also note that I have trouble reading this chat. The print is far too small for me (I have lost focus in one eye a few years ago), so I sometimes don't read a question properly. If I don't seem to be answering what you ask, point that out to me.
<bklynWriter> is there any way to enlarge the text?
<@zette> Some of the material may seem a little basic for most of you, but it doesn't hurt to go over even the basics. So we're going to start with what a short story is in relationship to longer works, specifically novel length.
<@zette> (not that I've found, Deb. I've tried!)
<@zette> First, look at short stories as an incident, not a history -- an adventure, rather than a full quest.
<@zette> We don't need to know the Main Character's full life story. We don't want to know it. (From now on Main Character will be MC. I'm lazy...)
<bklynWriter> are you saying that
no backstory is needed?
<@zette> A short story will focus on a defining moment in time -- not just the adventure, but the highest point of tension in the adventure.
<@zette> No, not exactly. Just that you are not going to give as much detail as you would in a novel. The things you need to stress are the parts that will be important to the short story.
<@zette> If the character grew up the daughter of a seamstress, and goes on to be a warrior -- you aren't going to stress how she learned to make lace cuffs. You'll stress her fist fights with her brothers.
<@zette> I've changed the picture on the board. Can you see it?
<Valerie> yup.
<Gayle> yes
<bklynWriter> i see it
<@zette> It's a matter of picking your details to compliment the story you write. And that's sometimes hard, because you want the reader to know so much about the character you created -- but for short stories, the reader usually isn't as interested as they would be in a novel.
<@zette> This is just a possible way to look at a novel plot. The character gains and loses things at different points. There' a lot of material to be covered there.
<@zette> But within this plot line there are several short stories lurking. One might be how he learns magic, gains some power, and then loses his family, and finds magic isn't going to help.
<@zette> The trick with short stories is to find a limited story -- a shorter amount of time that you'll cover.
<Suzanne> I am just checking to see if anything is coming through . . .
<@zette> If you don't see the graphic, don't worry. It will be in the transcript afterwards.
<@zette> When you look for short story ideas, one of the hardest tricks is not to let it grow into novel length. That happens to me a lot. It took me quite a while before I found how to limit them.
<Gayle> so there is hope for some of us....
<bklynWriter> every novel I'm working on started off a short story
<@zette> The important first step is to not look too far beyond the incident that you first see. A little background is important, of course, but not so much that you bury the incident in details that would belong in a novel, but not here.
<@zette> I know that problem. There's a couple things you can do to stop yourself. The first is to always remember that a short story can always be expanded into a novel. And that short stories make great background material for novels. You aren't 'not writing a novel.' You're just writing it in shorter pieces. (grin)
<bklynWriter> that's what I'm trying to do, but its already over 10K words
<@zette> The graphic should be a little different now. This is how to find the short story in all that novel clutter.
<bklynWriter> and the "one incident" hasn't even happened yet
<@zette> You're already up to novelette size. (grin)
<@zette> You are, obviously, starting way too early for a short story. Can you see the changed graphic with the start/end marks on it?
<Valerie> yes.
<Gayle> yes
<@zette> If I were to write this story (and actually, I did the last time), I would start with the character just learning that his love has been kidnapped. This puts the story right into the action. And end -- which is the second hardest part to find -- right after she's rescued.
<@zette> For the background, I would tend to make the character a bit mysterious. In this case, he was living far from his original home in a land that shunned magic. He'd given it up, after all, when he couldn't save his family. So he has secrets. It's all right to keep those secrets from the reader, at least for a bit.
<@zette> Here is one thing to always keep in mind when you write a short story -- people who read short stories are not in the same frame of mind as those who read novels. They're looking for a quick dip into an adventure, not to be totally immersed in an alien culture.
<bklynWriter> ok. I've started with my MC finding out she needs to arrange her own transport to Eden, where she is going to start a new job. The story is about her attempts at finding transportation
<@zette> Is that the story you want to tell, or is that the one you find yourself telling?
<bklynWriter> yes that is the story I want to tell, but I've gone into why she wants to leave earth, her background......ok I see now...too much info
<@zette> Exactly. You could tell us that in one paragraph, and the reader would be happy.
<@zette> In a short story, we don't need -- or want -- all the details. Good details that further the story, add depth to the world -- but not so much that it stops you from reaching the story itself.
<bklynWriter> I see
<@zette> What you have is a lot of great background material that you, as the writer, needs to know. It will affect what she does. But you can dole out any of that material in small pieces if you need it to explain a situation.
<@zette> Remember that you want to keep a tight reign on the story. Here are the official SFWA lengths for material: SFWA World Count lengths: Novel -- 40,000 and more ***Novella -- 17,500-39,999 ***novelette -- 7,500-17,499 ***Short Story -- 7,499 or shorter
<@zette> 7,499 looks like a lot of words to some people, but if you are a born novelist, like me, it looks frighteningly small.
<bklynWriter> zette...are short stories more difficult for you? Keeping it short?
<@zette> Yes. I have a very hard time keeping it short. Look at my current story dare 'short stories.' I think there are two that are novellas, and one that wanted to be a novel.
<@zette> Or was that the last dare? They start running together after awhile.
<Gayle> I have problems keeping within the requested 3K of most magazines...
<@zette> 3k and 2k are really hard to write to. I've managed it a few times, but mostly by going in and just cutting and cutting and cutting. I once cut a 15,000 story down to 3,000 -- and sold it.
<@zette> Which probably says a lot about how over-written my original work is.
<@zette> But again, the trick is usually to limit your focus of a story. If you have someone who is going to get into a duel at noon, don't start with breakfast. You might mention it -- but don't linger there. Start as close to the main action as you can.
<@zette> Another trick is to do the dreaded outline. They really are good ways to map out exactly where you want to go, and to limit the defining incident from growing.
<bklynWriter> how many scenes = a short story?
<@zette> There is not set number of scenes. I've seen good single scene ones, and stories that go on from world to world. It depends on the story.
<@zette> Do any of you have trouble coming up with ideas for stories. Not just short stories, but stories in general.
<bklynWriter> YES!
<Valerie> I have trouble...
<Anon_62> Yes, especially short stories!
<Gayle> not really...just the research to make them sound real
<Izunya> I have problems coming up with
good ideas.
<@zette> That's one people often ask me -- how do I come up with short story ideas. I write 20 or more a year. Okay, here's a few things that work for me. First, to take Izunya's note -- don't tell yourself they aren't 'good' ideas. If there is something that catches your attention, play with it. There are no new ideas out there. It's just how each writer approaches it that makes them unique.
<bklynWriter> I don't know how to distill an idea down to short story length
<@zette> Having trouble getting stories to stay short is the usual problem. But again, this is what you've got to stress -- INCIDENT, not WHOLE LIFE. That's a broad statement, and obviously there is a lot of leeway within it, but you can see the limitations.
<@zette> Gayle -- research is a problem, too. Have you written any short stories at all? Or many? Or do you have the ' get caught up in research and never write it' problem?
<@zette> I am character driven in both my writing and my reading. This has some serious problems all it's own, but I think that it might be the easier way to write stuff. (Or maybe that's just my personal prejudice.)
(I lost part of the transcript at this point, and I'll just quickly note a few things we covered, which was POV. I did suggest that people take a look at the current issue of Vision and read the Rob Chilson interview. He has some interesting points to make about how people approach the presentation of stories in the day of television.
http://www.lazette.net/vision/Issue6/Interview.htm )
In Omniscient POV, you know everything that everyone is thinking and doing. This is often called head-hopping, and it can be one of the most confusing ways to tell a story, even though it looks easy to the writer. Unless it's very well done, a reader can easily get lost in leaps, and not know who's head they've ended up in. Another problem is that this POV lacks many of the triggers for tension. We know what everyone is thinking. No surprises -- and the only way to keep secrets is by not going into someone's head. That can be pretty obvious after a while.
First Person creates a very tight, immediate story. You can only present exactly what the POV character sees and knows. For some reason, I find that the majority of my short stories are in first person, and my novels are in third.
<zette> Hello?
<Gayle> hello
<zette> ARGH. Got dropped. But I did save the transcript! (Well most of it, as I found out later.)
<BklynWriter> did everyone get knocked out?
<Valerie> Nope; I stayed.
<BklynWriter> Q: do editors prefer 1st person?
<Gayle> no...
<Izunya> I'm here.
<Valerie> I'm sorry, but I have to run. I'll be back to check the transcripts. Any homework?
<zette> Okay, just a couple more little notes! Third person POV -- this is often the best. It allows you to stay in one head and one POV for a long period -- avoiding the head-hopping problem of Omniscient -- but allows you to also go to someone else if you want to. You just must not jump from one to the other at random.
<Izunya> Is there a rule of thumb for how often you can move between heads in Third Person?
<zette> A problem with first person to keep in mind -- the narrator (the 'I' in the story) cannot keep a secret from the reader. Nor can he lie to the reader. We are in her head.
<zette> Deb -- no preference for POVs. They just like good solid stories, no matter what the POV.
<zette> In a short story, do it as few times as you can. It's always better to stay in one head.
<Izunya> Okay.
<zette> Here's another little bit. Try to limit the number of characters you introduce. You'll have 'extras' that pass through, but for the solid, core characters, don't give us a dozen characters for a 20-page story.
<BklynWriter> I have 2 major characters and a few not-so-major characters
<BklynWriter> mostly just people along the way of her journey
<zette> Do you people want to do homework? We can. Or we can go through the classes, and you can ask me questions about work you're doing.
<zette> That's good, Deb. We don't want the story to be sterile, but having too many characters with too much to remember about each one is another way to drag a short story down.
<BklynWriter> homework related to the stories we're currently working on would be good
<Izunya> I'm good either way. Most of the work I would ask about is actually in the editing phase.
<Gayle> I'm with Izunya
<zette> We'll be getting to that fairly quick, Izunya!
<BklynWriter> .
<zette> Let's do this -- if you want to, write out a few paragraphs on the story you want to tell (or are telling), and if you have specific problems with anything we covered today. Be sure to tell me the genre, too.
<BklynWriter> ok sounds good to me
<Izunya> That works.
<Gayle> sounds good
<zette> You can post that at .... ummm, that board where people post those things. (ack. Second in command of Forward motion, and I can never remember what boards cover which things...)
<Gayle> don't you still have the short story class thread up on one of the boards?
<Izunya> The Class Board, right? Should we have them up by a specific time?
<zette> Let me go find the board. brb!
<zette> Classroom work board! That's it! I'll put a message up and you can post to it.
Lazette Gifford
Moderator, Holly Lisle's Forward Motion for Writers
Managing Editor, Holly Lisle's Vision (
http://lazette.net/vision)
Home Page:
http://lazette.net
Caution: Reality ahead! Approach with care, and only for the purpose of study.