<@zette> Okay, we'll get moving!
<@zette> I think we got through background and detail yesterday. And your paragraphs and stuff were a lot of fun, by the way!
<@zette> Today we'll look at how to move the story along without letting it get away from you. This is my WORST problem. I have more stories turn into Novellas then I like to think about. I can live with novelettes, but novellas....
<@zette> You might want to create a small outline that shows each major step that the story takes, so that you can go from the beginning to the end without getting lost.
<@zette> If I write a short story in one day, I usually don't need an outline. It's all there. (And I do a lot of one-day stories.) However, if the story takes several days to write I do one thing that helps. When I get down to the end of my days writing I put one or more single lines of ideas at the end of the work.
<BklynWriter> that is a great tip, very helpful for me
<@zette> ARGH!
<@zette> Okay, I'm back.
<@zette> As I was saying (glaring at chat) I do short notes, one line at the end of my day's work setting up the next bit of work. Maybe the next step, the next major step, and the plae that I want the story to end.
<@zette> This helps me keep all that sort of stuff in mind.
<@zette> When you're looking at your next step in the story, always ask yourself if this will get your characters closer to the ending you see. Even if they fail at some test, it should still bring them closer to the ending.
<@zette> I see a lot of people get stuck somewhere shortly after the opening, and long before the ending. Middles scare people. But here's a trick that always works for me: Look at your story and ask what is the worst thing that could happen to your characters right then.
<Suzanne> write about that worst thing?
<@zette> It has to be a logical part of the story, but there are all kinds of fun things that can go wrong, from fairly mundane (it starts raining) to the really horrible (one of their group is killed).
<@zette> Suzanne, what this means is if you are stuck and you can't see the next step, look for something drastic to happen. Drastic is always good for moving a story along and keeping a reader interested.
<@zette> Obviously, if you're writing a comedy, it's not going to be the same sort of drastic as a horror writer would look for. But just ask yourself what can go wrong and you
<@zette> and you'll often find the next step in your story.
<Izunya> Presumably, if you're able to say, "But that doesn't fit in with the plot!" then you know that you know what the plot is, which may be more than you knew before. (Yes, I know; bad sentence.)
<@zette> That's true, Izunya! That can help, too, because you'll start refining your vision of the story that way.
<BklynWriter> I can do that...maybe make a list of worst case scenarios and pick which one logically fits in with the story. Right zette?
<@zette> One thing to avoid... if you ask someone for help, don't turn to them and say 'my characters would never do that.' Even if it's true, at least look at what they're offering. And thank them. (grin) Even if you don't use it. I only put this in because as part of a larger group you're going to get people offering you help in writing. Some of it will be totally useless.
<@zette> Actually, a lot of it will be. But there are times when they'll say something and your first reaction will be that it doesn't fit your characters. If they've actually read the story, try to figure out why they think it would. They're missing something -- or you are.
<@zette> On finding those middle steps -- don't make it too easy for your people. Put them through hell.
<@zette> But at the same time, don't throw problem after problem at them just to fill in space. Fine a few logical steps and obstacles to overcome.
<@zette> (Sorry.. almost lost my connection again!)
<@zette> Any questions on this part?
<Izunya> Not right now . . . I'm sure I'll think of one or two once I try to apply it.
<BklynWriter> I guess I'm guilty of not making it hard enough for my characters because I don't want to make my story sound melodramatic.
<@zette> LOL. Yeah, that's the real test.
<Gayle> not right now...need to think about the story first...then I will probably have a ton
<@zette> It's a hard balance sometimes. Just try to keep the reader in mind, and the fact that they are reading for excitement. You don't want the story to be too slow, or for the character not to have major problems.
<Izunya> (Izunya's corollary to Murphy's Law: The questions always come when the teacher is unavailable. The really sticky questions come when he/she is not only unavailable, but on sabbatical in Europe.)
<Gayle> lolol
<BklynWriter> lol
<@zette> LOL! I like that one. But you can always reach me at zette@sff.net
<BklynWriter> there is a fine line between adventure and implausibility
<@zette> Finding the ending is the next hardest problem. A lot of people write far beyond where the story should actually end. Much like the opening, we don't need to know the rest of the person's life story.
<Suzanne> Of course, when I am reading and find a short story I like, I WANT to know the rest of the person's live
<@zette> Maybe something to keep in mind is the 'And they lived happily ever after' line. We don't really need to see more than that.
<Izunya> Suzanne: That's why series was invented.
<Suzanne> 'cuse the typing
<@zette> Oh, I understand, but.... that's not the point of a short story. That's the work for novels.
<Izunya> Or whatever the plural of series is. Serie?
<Izunya> Serieses? Darn it . . . scuse me, I'm after a dictionary.
<@zette> Usually with a short story you will want to end just a little after the climax of the plot.
<@zette> Series should be singular or plural. The series was, the series were... but I could be wrong.
<Izunya> Series, series. You were right.
<@zette> For instance, you have someone rescuing the princess from the dragon. The climax is wining over the dragon, but the ending would be the two humans leaving the cave. You don't want to walk all the way back to the village with them -- unless you intend for another more important piece of the plot to happen there.
<@zette> Am I making any sense tonight? I have got an incredible headache, so I feel like I'm very slow and the words aren't quite falling into the right places.
<Izunya> Makes sense to me. I'm sorry if I distracted anyone.
<Gayle> sounds good to me...
<BklynWriter> got it
<@zette> No, that's fine, Izunya. I didn't mind. I just can't seem to remember what I'm doing here. (grin)
<@zette> Ah, yes. One more problem I see people have when they're going from middle to ends -- the fear of actually ending a story.
<BklynWriter> I have a question zette that just came to me, something we did not mention yesterday
<@zette> Ask!
<BklynWriter> I AM the prime example of that fear, zette.
<BklynWriter> ok what about subplots? Is there room in a short story for a [small] subplot?
<@zette> Subplots! Good question! Try to keep subplots to a minimum. The longer the story, the more they can handle something like that, of course -- but you really don't want to load a story down with two many threads.
<@zette> And try to keep them as closely tied to the main plot as you can, I would think. There isn't room to roam wild with threads in a short story.
<BklynWriter> ok. Serena needs to find transportation to Eden.. That is the main thread. The subplot I set up is that she is B.R.O.K.E. she doesn't even know where her next meal is coming from. And subconsciously I've threaded it in with her constantly rumbling stomach lol
<@zette> The truth is the more you write short stories, the more you'll find ways to add and twist what you're doing. But at first it's kind of hard just to get one plot from beginning to end, let alone tie in a couple threads and more characters... (grin)
<BklynWriter> so it is definitely a related subplot
<valerie> Deb: is that really a subplot? Sounds like a motivating force in her life
<@zette> Oh, I wouldn't even consider that a subplot, since transportation/lack of funds is the main story.
<BklynWriter> oh ok. So it just more validation of the direness of her situation, in other words
<Izunya> I'd say that's an example of throwing more related troubles at your main character.
<@zette> Yeah, I would think so. It has everything to do with what she's doing. If she wasn't broke, she'd not have a problem at all.
<BklynWriter> ok kewl
<@zette> A subplot might be a creditor trying to catch up with her, and her avoiding that person.
<BklynWriter> its clear now
<@zette> Anyway, endings. Endings can really be a problem.
<Izunya> I have a hard time trying to find something brief, but slightly more profound than, "She went out, closing the door quietly behind her." Any suggestions?
<@zette> A sort of special kind of ending is a sort of 'ambiguous' ending. If the story is more about how the character got up the courage to fight the dragon, it might not matter if he wins or loses the battle. You may not even show the battle, just the character going to the cave.
<@zette> It depends on the story, Izunya. That might be a very powerful ending, but I can't really judge it from here.
<Izunya> True, I guess not. I tend to feel that my endings lack power, but I can't really show you what I mean without posting whole stories.
<valerie> Dude, post whole stories on the crit boards; that's what they're there for.
<@zette> I know that feeling very well. I hate trying to come up with that final line. I hate it for novels, too.
<BklynWriter> I know my ending. She will get transport, but i know i don't need to show her boarding the ship or anything like that, is it enough to show her starting to pack up her life
<Izunya> <laugh> To show you how anal I can be: my instant reaction was, "But most of my stuff isn't
good enough for the crit board!
<valerie> LOL. That's great!
<@zette> Depends on where the most power would be. Packing might be a good scene -- but in your case, I would say go with the ship. The story is all about her getting the transport, and not to go there might leave the reader feeling as though she's still not going to make it.
<BklynWriter> ok zette I'll try it out
<@zette> That's just my gut feeling, remember. You may find the other ending suits you much better.
<@zette> Are there any questions at all about any part of the stuff we've covered this week? Or anything else?
<@zette> Anything I missed, like that subplot question?
<valerie> I've never prepared a short story: things like outlines or planning ahead. How often do you find yourself doing this?
<@zette> How about the dreaded art of titles...
<valerie> ooooh, titles are hard.
<Gayle> Not right now...but maybe in a day or two after I've played with the story.
<Izunya> Titles! Yes, pleasepleaseplease!
<Suzanne> Oy! Most of my stories have six or seven titles on the first page and I wind up with something else
<@zette> If I think I am not going to get a chance to write the story in one day, then I will jot down a few single lines of outline to remind myself where the story is going. I write a lot, remember, so I often have several stories going. I don't want to lose any of them.
<BklynWriter> I have a theory about my titles...I can't force them. They will come when least expected....[read my blog <g>]
<@zette> Titles are like that, Deb.
<BklynWriter> and now I've got titles for a trilogy, when I haven't even finished the first one lol
<@zette> I do a couple different things if I'm really stuck for one. Is the story about Honor? I'll take out my Bartlett's Quotations and look up Honor in the Index and start going through the quotes it shows. You'd be surprises how often that can spark a title.
<Izunya> My computer files have names that range from the truly asinine (Ghost Story Try) to the truly enigmatic (BCSFv5). Finding a real title can be pretty tough work.
<Gayle> oooo...that sounds like a neat idea if November Novel doesn't cough up a title soon
<@zette> Or, to be honest, a single word often makes a good title. 'Honor' might be just the title you're looking for. Or the main character's name and Honor -- Devlin's Honor, for instance.
<Suzanne> pride and prejudice, sense and . . . .
<@zette> You have a much better chance at finding a short story title and keeping it than you will with a novel, by the way. Publishers are well known for deciding to change the title of a book.
<Gayle> Nathan is breathing down my neck telling me it's time to go...see you all Monday?
<@zette> Also remember that titles can not be copyrighted.
<BklynWriter> bye gayle!
<Izunya> Bye, Gayle.
<@zette> Okay! Monday it is!
<Suzanne> yes, inded. thanks again
<valerie> bye, Gayle!
<valerie> (The last class is Monday! Dang; I'll miss it.)
<BklynWriter> I named my short Voyage, but i'm not satisfied with it
<Izunya> Minor question: what is the difference between a short story and a vignette?
<valerie> re: titles can't be copyrighted. Does this mean you can lift someone else's title if you like it?
<@zette> We'll just go over finding publishers and stuff like that. And it'll be questions that you might have.
<@zette> You can, Valerie -- but if it's a really famous story, or uses a character's name that everyone would recognize, it's not a good idea. (grin)
<valerie> fair 'nuff
<@zette> A vignette is really just a scene, not a story.
<Izunya> Ah, okay. I tend to think of vignettes as having much less plot, but I'm fairly sure that's not the whole story. So to speak.
<@zette> And usually quite short, I believe.
<Izunya> Thanks.
<@zette> That sounds about right.
<@zette> I can see why Voyage would not work, Deb. It's not about the Voyage, after all -- but finding the ability to take the journey.
<BklynWriter> exactly
<@zette> Hmmm.... The Promise of Eden...
<valerie> The Ashes of Eden
<@zette> Ack. My brain is dead right now.
<@zette> Ashes might give away too much early on.
<valerie> I know, but it's fun!
<@zette> LOL!
<valerie> especially if Deb never says outright what's in the box...
<@zette> It's always fun to find titles for others. Eden Bound?
<Izunya> Looking Toward Eden?
<BklynWriter> how about Special Delivery lol
<@zette> LOL!
<BklynWriter> but its such a small part of the story
<BklynWriter> Race for Eden
<@zette> Yeah. The story is that she wants what Eden can give her. Reaching for Eden?
<valerie> I like Eden's Promise... I'd really like to play on the Biblical references since the way she gets there is kind of twisted...
<BklynWriter> oh I like that too!
<BklynWriter> can I have a short story and a novel by the same name?
<BklynWriter> Finding Eden?
<valerie> depends on whether your publisher lets you keep the novel title, I guess...
<Izunya> I've seen writers do that, but generally it's because they've expanded the short story.
<Izunya> For Hope of Eden
<@zette> Well, it gives you some stuff to work with, anyway. Hmmmm... yeah that's what I was thinking, Izunya!
<BklynWriter> i know it will come to me...i'm just hoping it's at a decent hour, and not in the middle of the night lol
<valerie> For some reason, my short story titles come fairly easily once I've written the piece. And I usually end up titling the piece either after a main character or an MC's characteristic
<@zette> I've been pretty lucky with titles, but they range all over the place, from things like Legend to Weaving the Strands of Love.
<Izunya> If it'll come eventually, I'd say don't force it. And keep some paper by your bed. <smile>
<valerie> erg; bad 80s song is now running thru my head (sowing the seeds of love...)
<@zette> sorry. But it was a good story. (grin)
<valerie> I'm not going to hold it against you!
<BklynWriter> OT: I tried to write down something in the middle of the night on a pad. the next morning it was 3 pages of gibberish....and the only thing I could remember was telepathic twins separated in vitro
<@zette> What else should we cover? Can any of you think of anything you want to ask? Did tonight help at all? We really didn't cover much.
<@zette> I keep my Visor by the bed. Very nice for notes.
<Izunya> I thought tonight was helpful.
<valerie> it helped; I never quite know when to begin a story... and I've been told I end them too soon, leaving too much ambiguity about what happened.
<@zette> Oh, just the opposite of the problem I often see! That's a tough one!
<Izunya> Bklyn: that very thing was what stopped me from keeping a dream journal. My notes usually made less sense than the dreams.
<BklynWriter> tonight was good, as all your classes are zette
<@zette> Thank you. I'm so frazzled tonight that I couldn't tell if I was helping at all or not.
<@zette> Waiting for word on Russ for eight hours did nothing for my state of mind today.
<valerie> Ah, but we have your e-mail address now... we can pester you with questions if we wake tomorrow and our scribbled notes lead us to another question.
<@zette> Sure thing! Any time.
Lazette Gifford
Moderator, Holly Lisle's Forward Motion for Writers
Managing Editor, Holly Lisle's Vision (
http://lazette.net/vision)
Home Page:
http://lazette.net
Caution: Reality ahead! Approach with care, and only for the purpose of study.