Professional Writing Workshops at HollyLisle.com
11/16/01 -- SF/F World Building Part Two
<@SLViehl> Losers in war were often used as fodder for the gladiators and
lions in Rome. What other cultures sported with their victims? Lots of
Americans Indian tribes did.T
<RobertAndAri> I'm pretty sure most of the Fertile Crescent city cultures
did, now that I remember. Also some of the tribes in my distant anthro
studies.
<RobertAndAri> Had to jot that competitive torture idea fast, as I was
thinking 'but what do fun races like Hsktskt or Trevellians do for fun?'
<@SLViehl> The Hsktskt have lots of fun.
Wait 'til book seven.
<James> But it strikes me that the gentler arts/games would be a lovely way
of characterizing your villain. Psycho by day, dead keen on baseball with a
killer baseball card collection by night. Not killing someone in a crowd
because he's just spotted his favourite player and wants an autograph, kind
of thing.
<RobertAndAri> Drooling on my screen for book seven....
<RobertAndAri> James, that works too. And the bad guys themselves may not
see any inconsistency. Reality under that is Nazis listening to Wagner
played by condemned prisoners at Auschwitz.
<@SLViehl> I like that idea, James. The elegant barbarian.
<James> Mm, a perfect example. Feels real, and dreadfully creepy because it
reminds you that
humans do this stuff.
<@SLViehl> John Wayne Gacey dressed up as a clown and put on shows for kids
in hospitals.
<James> No wonder kids are terrified of clowns!
<@SLViehl> Proving that even the biggest monster has a fluffy side.
(shudder)
<@SLViehl> I really think Stephen King got his idea for "IT" from Gacey.
<James> My current villain is your basic mind-controlling pyrokinetic
psychopath - I might create a sport for him to be a mad fan of. It'll give
me some nice settings, as well.
<@SLViehl> Water sport, perhaps?
<James>
<Anne_Marble> I think in some cases, the wealthy Babylonians used to have
something like one year to torture and/or kill a condemned person who had
harmed their family. You could keep them imprisoned all that time and make
them thing you were going to free them, then kill them on the last day.
<RobertAndAri> That sounds too cool, James! Yeah! Also dumb luck if you
don't want to kill and do want a near miss, like the doesn't kill because he
wants the autograph scene.
<@SLViehl> I think we're often fascinated by what we're afraid of.
<James> See, I
always get ideas from these sessions!
<RobertAndAri> I do too.
<@SLViehl> We're definitely turning into a think tank, guys.
<Anne_Marble> There are lots of ooky ways to torture. I recently read a web
site about torture techniques as research. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
<RobertAndAri> I had my mind on that last night and did my vision article. I
think my unconscious is telling me 'torture someone in Thrice'
<@SLViehl> Jinx, are you still with us?
<Jinx> I think so.
<Anne_Marble> Strangely, the next time I had dental surgery and went under,
I started imagining a torture scene for a fantasy novel that involved
drugging someone so he could be horribly tortured and yet not feel the pain,
to make the torture some how worse. Might use that...
<Jinx> Got bumped.
<Anne_Marble> BRB -- pizza just dinged.
<RobertAndAri> Ugh, anne. They don't even see it done. They just pass out
without knowing what will hurt or how they're mutilated when they wake. Pure
terror!
<James> Food that plays music - another exotic art!
<@SLViehl> There you go. The song depends on the presentation?
<Anne_Marble> They also made his family watch.
Y'know, it might be
possible that I take to nitrous oxide a little too well.
<Jinx> Food does that already -- the sound of water boiling, of fish
frying... <g>
<@SLViehl> Saddle of veal concerto with mint sauce flute solo?
<James> What aria would a lobster sing as it goes into the water?
<@SLViehl> HEEEELLLLLPPPP
<Anne_Marble> "Don't let me down"
<James> Perhaps, after an unhappy love affair, the lobster jumps...
<RobertAndAri> Carmina Burana has a sad, powerful song in the middle
punctuated by a rollicking chorus, it's a swan getting roasted for dinner
and the chorus is singing about how good he'll taste, in latin.
<@SLViehl> Imagine composing a song for a choir who only belches in tones.
<Gayle&Nathan> well I can say one thing...nathan has a case of the giggles
because of class tonight
<James> Gods, imagine the applause...
<@SLViehl> Hi Nathan! (waving)
<RobertAndAri> Well, yeah. <G>
<Anne_Marble> George Carlin had a line that went something like "Some tragic
news... One of the cells in my body climed to the roof of my mouth and
committed suicide."
<@SLViehl> It would have to be an all male choir, though. (ducking)
<James> I fart in your general direction
<Jinx> LOL
<Anne_Marble> Sheila, you never met my grandmother.
<RobertAndAri> Ari thinks bird jumping, bug chasing, desk wrecking and room
running (never the same route twice) are cool sports.
<Gayle&Nathan> [nathan] hello (wave)
<RobertAndAri> I do not want to see a novel titled The Breaking Winds...
<James> But it's a cute thought. Beast with five stomachs, eats different
meals and burps from a given stomach to enhance the music with particular
scents...
<@SLViehl> Oh, no James!
<@SLViehl> lol
<James> I have a terrible tendency to run with things...
<Gayle&Nathan> LOLOl
<Anne_Marble> And I thought "The Beast with Five Fingers" was scary.
<@SLViehl> You know I'm going to end up getting blamed for this when James's
novel hits the shelves.
<@SLViehl> "That damn Viehl woman's idea."
<James> I shall finger you to the hugo committee when they turn me down for
excessive flatulence...
<Gayle&Nathan> but he's the one who ran with it sheila
<Anne_Marble> Actually, this reminds me of an old Steve Martin joke... About
his girlfriend who was studying singing.
<RobertAndAri> James, it would be worse if you won but had to do the speech
in your alien language.
<@SLViehl> True. I will discount all knowledge of what James does with his
choir.
<RobertAndAri> Choirboys. Another thing to make the gang giggle in chat and
confuse everyone else.
<BlairB> James... i'll keep the transcrip unaltered..
<James> I like to think "thanks to the hugo committee" comes out as
barrffffff...
<@SLViehl> Hookay. Let's do history before we run out of session.
<James> Sorry...
<Gayle&Nathan> sound's good to us
<Anne_Marble> He said his girlfriend's teacher was a real pervert. Why?
Because he told her to sing from her diaphragm. "That could take
years to
learn."
<@SLViehl> If you get the Hugo, James, I am definitely going to be there.
<Anne_Marble> Whoops...
<@SLViehl> Lol, Anne
<@SLViehl> Okay, creating a history for your world(s).
<RobertAndAri> I too humbly transcribe this entire session, most noble
companions...
<@SLViehl> Thanks to Blair and Robert for transcribing tonight. A hug for
both of you.
<RobertAndAri> Purr
<@SLViehl> Now, unless your world formed yesterday, you need some history,
<@SLViehl> I have an exercise I'd like everyone to try later on. This is
what you do: Sit down and write the most important events in the world
dating back three hundreds years. Don't think about it, just write. You
have ten seconds to make this list.
<@SLViehl> Here's my list:
<RobertAndAri> This world or one that we made up?
<@SLViehl> Columbus 1692
<@SLViehl> Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock
<@SLViehl> American Revolution
<@SLViehl> Pioneers
<@SLViehl> Indian Wars
<@SLViehl> Gold Rush
<@SLViehl> Civil War
<@SLViehl> Industry and Urbanization
<@SLViehl> The Model T
<@SLViehl> WWI
<@SLViehl> The Great Depression
<@SLViehl> WWII
<@SLViehl> JFK
<@SLViehl> Korea
<@SLViehl> Vietnam
<@SLViehl> Bicentennial
<@SLViehl> Gulf War
<@SLViehl> Attack on America
<@SLViehl> Now, I wrote all those things down in ten seconds.
<@SLViehl> Not thinking about it, just gut reaction from my POV
<@SLViehl> What's interesting is, I thought more about wars as important
events than anything.
<@SLViehl> I'm a medical person who worships guys like Jenner and Salk, and
they didn't even make the list.
<@SLViehl> Why?
<@SLViehl> Because any event where a great many people die is burned forever
in memory.
<@SLViehl> There is a long history in my family of being very closely
associated with global or regional conflicts
<@SLViehl> The other events are more America-specific -- our Gold Rush, the
Model T -- all things that changed our country without war.
<@SLViehl> This exercise helps you in one specific way -- it tells you what
you remember.
<@SLViehl> These are the same things your characters in your novel should
remember.
<@SLViehl> I'm talking on a personal level here, because there is a tendency
to info dump history in a book. Let most of your history come out through
your characters, in their lives, and in their memories.
<@SLViehl> Now, remember my rule about the world building writer -- you can
never know TOO much about your world.
<@SLViehl> So begin to build a history backward from the time of your novel.
<@SLViehl> Create historical events that jusitify the world you've created.
<@SLViehl> And your history doesn't have to be one long running series of
wars.
<@SLViehl> Natural disasters are just as devastating. Use them.
<@SLViehl> Diseases like plagues routinely wipe out whole civilizations.
<James> And assaults on prevailing cultural assumptions that change them
forever - referencing JFK and September 11.
<@SLViehl> Exactly, James. We saw history change on 9/11.
<@SLViehl> The same way our parents saw history change when the Japanese
attacked Pearl Harbor.
<@SLViehl> Something happens that changes things in a big way.
<@SLViehl> These are the kinds of events you need to populate your world's
past.
<@SLViehl> Particular to the fantasy genre is the development of magic
systems.
<@SLViehl> The same way biology works for SF.
<@SLViehl> biology or science, I should say
<@SLViehl> Magic is power, and power is influenced by many things.
<@SLViehl> Consider the source of your magic -- where did it come from? How
did it endure changes over time? What strengthens it? What weakens it?
<@SLViehl> In SF, you've got a template for change right in our own Earth
history,
<@SLViehl> as we developed sciences, we progressed -- and sometimes
regressed -- as a species.
<@SLViehl> But all things present and accounted for can be traced back to an
event or a series of events which created them.
<@SLViehl> One of the most fascinating books I've ever read was a companion
book to a PBS series called "The Day the Universe Changed"
<@SLViehl> I never watched the show, personally, but the book is fabulous.
<Anne_Marble> He had the most adorable accent, too.
<@SLViehl> It takes something like the atomic bomb and traces it back
through history, through events that brought it into existence, or somehow
influenced its existence.
<@SLViehl> If you're not sure how to create historical precedence, I highly
recommend this book as a learning tool.
<@SLViehl> And when you are creating history, don't be neat about it.
History is chock full of useless wars and needless suffering and endless
violations of simple human rights.
<@SLViehl> People learn from their mistakes. We hope, anyway.
<@SLViehl> Let your people make mistakes.
<@SLViehl> QUESTIONS
<Anne_Marble> Just did a web search, James Burke is working on a (free)
interactive "knowledge web" due out circa December 2002. Droooool. What a
resource!
<RobertAndAri> The ten second list leaves out a lot. Mine would have been
completely different and as valid.
<@SLViehl> Bald guy who wrote the book, right Anne?
<RobertAndAri> What does the nature of your list do to your writing?
<Anne_Marble> Yup
<Jinx> If you can catch the show, it's fab, too.
<@SLViehl> The ten second list is sort of telling about you personally, I
think. What you put down are the things that stay with you from history.
<Anne_Marble> In my fantasy novel, one of my MCs founded a police force for
an important city-state. Would it make more sense for my history to focus
(for now) on the crimes and corruption that made it necessary/possible to
found this group?...
<@SLViehl> And since we invest a lot of ourselves in our characters, it's
good to know what's going on up there in our gray matter.
<James> I admit - I was doing it mentally as you presented your list, and
placed the settlement of Australia right where you put Plymouth Rock (I even
started with Columbus).
<James> Which I did find instructive.
<RobertAndAri> I thought of Galileo, witch trials ending witch trials, end
of slavery, Dickens, Karl Marx, American and French revolutions - it wasn't
coming up in order but was darn optimistic and most wars I was dismissing as
'same old same old'
<@SLViehl> I think so, Anne. Recent history is going to be more of a major
player in your novel, unless history has not changed in a long period of
time -- I think Robert has a civilization that has been relatively stable
for a lengthy period in his latest book.
<RobertAndAri> Very stable very long history in that series, Sheila, post
industrial so long they don't remember poverty and are arts driven.
<Anne_Marble> I'll have to think of an evil crime bad enough to get even
even the cynical nobles to agree that a police force is a good thing. Either
a crime so bad it shocks even them, or a crime that could cause rebellion if
it went unpunished.
<@SLViehl> Of all the things I've never been able to accept or understand, I
think war tops my list. That's probably why I think of wars as major events
in history.
<Gayle&Nathan> Louisiana Purchase, lewis & clark & the corp of discovery;
z.m.ple
<Gayle&Nathan> z.m.pike
<@SLViehl> I can't watch movies like Band of Brothers and Schindler's List,
because they make me physically ill.
<@SLViehl> All I see are the bodies, not the glory.
<Jinx> If the nobles felt threatened in any way, they'd probably agree with
the idea, just to protect themselves.
<Anne_Marble> (A laborer's child raped and murdered by a nobleman might be
too cliched. But still...)
<@SLViehl> Anne, you might need a series of horrific events that escalate
and force the population to extreme measures.
<@SLViehl> We just went through that with the events of 9/11.
<Anne_Marble> Someone murdered the Little Match Girl!!!
<RobertAndAri> I share your feelings about war entirely, Sheila - but focus
so much on 'the glass is half full' and the death of some destructive ideas,
like sanctioned slavery and religious war. If Sept. 11 made a change it's
that Crusades are not morally acceptable any more.
<Gayle&Nathan> the movie schindler's list wasn't at all like the book....
<BlairB> i assume you aren't talking about 'hollywood' dying...
<James> I wonder if the WTC changed that, a little: I haven't been able to
stand action movie set-piece explosions since, and a couple of people I know
have acquired the same attitude.
<RobertAndAri> Those are often cleaned up to make it more palatable. I watch
them and the dying actors just go still and pretty and I have seen death and
it's slower and uglier.
<Gayle&Nathan> i have never let nathan see violence for violence sake...only
with a historical reference
<@SLViehl> Hollywood should spend a year in an LA hospital emergency room.
They'd look at their movies a little differently.
<James> No - they'd just acquire more things to prostitute.
<@SLViehl> Sadly true, James.
<James> Erm, sorry, that was bitterer than I thought...
<RobertAndAri> Holdover from puritanism, you couldn't go into sex as
casually and explicitly as violence in American film.
<Gayle&Nathan> In fact we don't generally watch R rated movies unless it is
in a historical setting (the patriot, saving private ryan)
<@SLViehl> but still true
<James> I began life as an idealist - there's nothing more bitter than a
thoroughly disappointed idealist...
<Anne_Marble> One of my fellow reviewers learned that someone she knows in a
writing group is trying to write a romance based on the WTC attack. And on
top of that, the plot sucks eggs.
<@SLViehl> What's that saying? A cynic is just a bruised idealist?
<James> Exactly.
<RobertAndAri> I began life as a cynic and it looked up mightily at legal
age and still looks better to me than it was.
<@SLViehl> She won't sell it, Anne. We've been told to stay AWAY from 9/11
in what we write.
<@SLViehl> I'm speaking for pro romance authors -- myself and about ten
others I know.
<Anne_Marble> Good. It sounded horrid.
<RobertAndAri> It took me over a decade to finally use the Challenger
incident in a novel. It had to soak.
<@SLViehl> It should not be trivialized. I trust the publishers will police
their authors, though.
<James> I'm actually now a bipolar idealist, Robert, swinging constantly
from my old idealism to the cynicism of a deeply bitter ninety year old man.
I make my friends dizzy.
<Anne_Marble> One of the reviewers was speculating that if something like
that got published, it would hurt the reputation of romance, and romance has
enough problems with its rep.
<@SLViehl> Is anyone having any other problems, not related to what we've
discussed tonight, but to the previous topics from the other two sessions?
<Gayle&Nathan> no...not right now.
<@SLViehl> How can you be constant in an inconstant world, James? Just
getting through one day at a time sane is a real accomplishment these days.
<James> Amen to that!
<Anne_Marble> I will.
I have to decide if I should make the ruling class
into vampires or a sort of vampiric elves or someting else entirely.
<RobertAndAri> Yeah. I'm worldbuilding close to home with a horror novel and
some strange events that happened around the 1920's and I don't know where
the little lizard guy pranksters came from and that drives me nuts.
<James> How about turning it around: the plebs are the vampires, keeping a
pool of nice, pampered aristocrats around to feed them what they need...
<@SLViehl> Play with the vampire idea, Anne. See if you can find a new way
to present them -- some new twist.
<@SLViehl> Are your lizard guys indigenous to your world, Robert? Could
they be invaders? Marooned?
<Anne_Marble> Make them tall and blond with pointed ears.
<RobertAndAri> The world is upstate NY in a vacation area and there's a
colony living in secret under the lake and the cabin.
<RobertAndAri> Do I need to know how they got there or is it cool in a
horror novel to leave a lot of such questions unanswered and just take
things as they are?
<@SLViehl> I'd go with finding out what kind of animals live on blood and
build off the actual biology of the critter.
<James> How about a two-way -- the aristocrats can draw magic from the
plebs, but the plebs can -- though they're punished if they're caught --
drain physical strength and longevity from the aristocrats.
<@SLViehl> If they're totally different from your indigenous population,
Robert, you can't do a rabbit out of the hat. You need a source.
<Anne_Marble> Or vampires who live off fear and other emotions instead of
blood...
<@SLViehl> Or have they always been around, and were stirred up by some
event?
<Anne_Marble> I guess
those vampires would become novelists.
<@SLViehl> Krinard did that in Prince of Something.
<RobertAndAri> That's what I don't know and the characters might not find
out. They would have their own history IF they talk to the humans or I do
their POV.
<James> That could be something, Anne -- they drain the emotions and
regurgitate art of all kinds. They'd have to get something physical as
well, but the art could be a side effect.
<RobertAndAri> I'm half thinking they were brought in by the evil and they
happened to luck and settle with the old lady and are sort of making the
best of it and colonizing.
<@SLViehl> Exchange emotions, like blood exchanges maybe, James? Positive
for the negative (no pun intended)
<RobertAndAri> Like the evil's always been around but the little lizard guys
only pretty much through the 20th century and they're not going home, they
live there now.
<@SLViehl> You could have them hatch after incubating for a couple of
millenia, Robert.
<Anne_Marble> If you agree to give them fear, you get money or food or
something.
<@SLViehl> But you have to produce fear in order for them to feed, right
Anne?
<James> Or happiness, or a revived happy memory, or something of that sort.
<RobertAndAri> Oh wow. Thanks, Sheila - that accounts for their culture so
much! Because they got raised by Grandma Halston.
<@SLViehl> Plenty of organisms take a long time to hatch. Bacteria, mold,
etc. . . .
<Anne_Marble> Maybe they can put you through something to create the fear.
Or maybe the ones who live off fear are the
bad nobles. It's illegal, but
some do it for fun. Chasing people down...
<James> They have great parties - invite volunteer plebs into an
arena/labyrinth area, where things happen that induce terrible fear.
Survivors get the rewards.
<RobertAndAri> Living off fear might make them sought if fear is relieved by
their taking it. They could become therapists and grief counselors.
<@SLViehl> You could have your vampires be adrenalin junkies, Anne
<Anne_Marble> Oooh, like "reality television."
<RobertAndAri> When ethical. When not of course you've got the bloodsport
and the quick nasty ways to get it.
<James> Maybe some people try to raise their kids neurotic to make them
tastier for the vamps, and worth more to the family...
<@SLViehl> Oh, James, that's too good.
<RobertAndAri> Oh that's fantastic. Your drunken abuser would see that as a
goldmine.
<Anne_Marble> Just like some people used to raise their babies to become
freaks by doing sick things to their bodies.
<@SLViehl> Precisely!
<Jinx> By the best-selling author, "How to Raise Neurotics and Psychotics; A
Parent's Handbook"
<@SLViehl> lol Jinx
<RobertAndAri> I'd love to read that, Jinx. Sounds witty and apt.
<James> Forgive my dreadful mind, but it's also a use for mentally damaged
war veterans.
<@SLViehl> No, I think you're right on the money, James.
<Anne_Marble> And that might five the vampires more reason to go to war, to
create more damaged vets.
<RobertAndAri> Yeah, and what about all those battered or raped spouses!
Ship 'em off to the vamps! Social problems solved.
<James> Anyone in that society who has been made vulnerable to negative
mental manipulation.
<@SLViehl> Sometimes we have contemplate awful things to write realistic
stuff.
<@SLViehl> Now, what happens after they're drained? Do they get better?
Are they blank?
<Anne_Marble> I can see why they would need a police force...
<Gayle&Nathan> especially from wars that weren't conventional but more like
viet nam or our own revolutionary war
<Anne_Marble> If the good vamps do it, they're made better. But the bad
vampires drain them.
<James> But are they then repatriated to their families - how would you feel
about your family if they did that to you, even if you were partially cured?
<@SLViehl> They would need a defense force to protect the people from being
abused as food sources.
<@SLViehl> You'd never trust them again.
<James> Perhaps a Vulcan-like group with such good emotional control they
can't be victims.
<Anne_Marble> The guy who founded the police force is illegitimate -- his
father is one of the rulers.
<@SLViehl> Good conflict for the characters.
<Anne_Marble> Too bad the first book takes place in a remote village that
might be relatively untouched by all this.
<RobertAndAri> And you would get that group that got picked up by good vamps
forming a symbiotic culture and becoming method actors, feeding
deliberately.
<@SLViehl> And you'd need ways for people to overcome fear, as self-defense
measures.
<James> Perhaps a common, slightly addictive drug that dulls the emotions,
reduces emotional vulnerability but has some bad social side effects so is
illegal for both reasons...
<@SLViehl> An elite fighting force taught to fear nothing.
<Anne_Marble> Then again, I guess even a remote village would need a vampire
or two in charge.
<@SLViehl> You're going to have fun writing this, Anne.
<Anne_Marble> And I know just the character to change into a vampire.
<RobertAndAri> A philosophy that led to deep inner peace and balance
evolving in the ones the goodguys lived with. Oh yeah, Anne, whatever you do
with it there's so much meat in that.
<@SLViehl> The possibilities are really wonderful. Let us know how it goes,
okay?
<Anne_Marble> I'll shout it from the roof tops.
<James> Mm, I'd be curious to hear, too.
<@SLViehl> Okay, folks, any last questions before we call it a night?
<Anne_Marble> My heroine is a werewolf. Maybe they're immunie...
<Gayle&Nathan> no--none from me
<Anne_Marble> Puff, puff, puff, I think I have enough to work from, thank
you.
<@SLViehl> What movie are you guys watching tonight, Gayle?
<RobertAndAri> No, I think I now know where the treaty rug came from and
what they do and how they got most of their culture.
<James> No, Anne - werewolves often symbolise emotion run wild - make your
werewolves more vulnerable, the tastiest prey of all!
<@SLViehl> Excellent idea, James.
<Gayle&Nathan> none--he used his friday nite movie on wednesday because he
had movies due thursday that he couldn't renew
<Anne_Marble> That could work. My w.w. can change at will. Also, I'm working
with the idea that if she doesn't transform often enough, she gets stuck in
human form.
<James> Wonderful chance: put her in a position where she must change or be
trapped as human, but if she changes, her captors will feed...
<Gayle&Nathan> we are watching movi previews online instead of movies
(Nathan)
<Anne_Marble> She's running from the half-vampire because he thinks she
committed a crime.
<@SLViehl> Well, the cats are herding, wanting dinner. I'm going to say
goodnight. There won't be a session next week, as I'll be out of town, but
I've got some new stuff posted on the calendar for Dec. Also, I'll continue
this on the next available Friday in Dec., if possible.
<Anne_Marble> Yay!
<James> Sounds great.
<RobertAndAri> Yayyy!
<Anne_Marble> OT: In an e-book mailing list, someone asked, "Why would
anyone buy ebooks at a brick and mortar bookstore instead of buying ebooks
over the Web?" Someone has to ask?!
<RobertAndAri> Looking forward to it and will promptly mail transcript.
<@SLViehl> Thanks again to Blair and Robert for transcribing the session for
me.
<Gayle&Nathan> okay
<BlairB>
<Jinx> Goodnight, all!
<@SLViehl> And thanks to you all for another terrific Friday night.
end of part two