<Jinx> Evening, Sheila
<@SLViehl> Hello, Jinx, I'm back!
<Jinx> Got tea?
<@SLViehl> Got major tea
<@SLViehl> Brewed up a witch's caldron tonight -- lots of herbs
<Jinx> Sounds like you're set, then. <g>
<@SLViehl> nerve herbs, 'cause mine are shot. <g>
<@SLViehl> How are you doing?
<Jinx> I'm fine. Eating, and drinking my raspberry zinger, so I can't complain.
<@SLViehl> I remember food.
<@SLViehl> I used to eat that stuff, before deadline week.
<Jinx> You have eaten today, haven't you?? <poke>
<@SLViehl> Thinking
<Jinx> Hrmph. I should come fix you a meal.
<@SLViehl> Something green at lunch. Salad maybe
<@SLViehl> Hey, one of these days we're going to invade your house, I swear
<@SLViehl> The Friday night at Jinx's
<Jinx> And I would, except I'd have to travel all the way across the country. <g>
<Jinx> I'm up for it. My husband would be thrilled.
<@SLViehl> Florida is nice and hot, but there are lots of hurricanes
<Jinx> Go get some food. We can wait. <nudge>
<Jinx> I grew up in Florida. East coast -- Titusville.
<@SLViehl> I'm going to nick out to the kitchen and grab a muffin. Brb
<@SLViehl> My daughter and I made these. They're either blueberry, or really, really old.
<Jinx> LOL
<@SLViehl> So you're a homie, huh? Hi BJ
<Jinx> For your sake, I hope they're blueberry.
<Jinx> Evening, BJ
<BJ Steeves> Evening All
<Jinx> Yep. Raised, graduated from Astronaut High, BCC and USF. Whee!
<@SLViehl> Well, then, you know the hurricane season drills. Come back home already
<Jinx> Evening, Emily
<@SLViehl> Welcome, Emily
<Jinx> Yes, I do. My husband won't live there -- too hot. <g>
<@SLViehl> Hi Sophie
<Labloch> Hi y'all
<Jinx> Most of my family is there, though....
<@SLViehl> A little heat is good for the endocrine systems.
<Jinx> Evening, Labloch (Sophie?)
<@SLViehl> James sends his regrets again -- it may be another two or three weeks before he gets a computer, poor guy.
<Labloch> evening Jinx (either works)
<Jinx> I like Sophie, if I can remember it with the handle <g>
<Labloch> we need to start a pool to fund his move to N America!
<Jinx> Poor James! What happened, anyway?
<@SLViehl> I say we send the Marines over and rescue him.
<Jinx> Evening, Nathan
<Labloch> Go Marines! <g>
<Labloch> Hi Nathan
<@SLViehl> They replaced the motherboard on his computer, and now it seems the processor also must be replaced. He's going to get a new computer instead, about the same cost.
<Labloch> Nice picture, Sheila!
<Nathan> g>what happened to James computer?
<@SLViehl> Hi Nathan
<@SLViehl> Welcome Yvonne, Kaelle
<Yvonne> hey all
<Jinx> Evening, Yvonne & Kae
<Jinx> I hope he had backups.
<Kaelle> Hey there!
<dar> 'allo
<@SLViehl> James's computer is fried, Nathan. He has to get a new one, so he's not going to be here for a few more weeks
<Kaelle> I don't have a question tonight, Sheila.
<@SLViehl> Hey dar!
<Jinx> Evening, dar & Joel
<BJ Steeves> Maybe he gonna get a Dell?
<Nathan> wasn't Nathan that asked...now I let my son have the computer and go take a bath
<Labloch> I don't have one either. I'm just glad I finally made a session!
<Joel_A> Evening, y'all!
<@SLViehl> No problem, Kae
<Jinx> LOL Gayle
<Jinx> Oh, I don't have one Sheila. I just like to spend Friday nights here.
<@SLViehl> Hi Gayle
<Kaelle> Jinx, me too. (g)
<Nathan> Oh, shes gone now...
<Anne_Marble> almost done my soup, too
<Nathan> Hi all
<@SLViehl> Well, remember, if you think of something, I can always add you on at the end
<Jinx> Evening Lucas & Anne
<@SLViehl> Hiya Anne
<Anne_Marble> I don't know what to ask yet...
<@SLViehl> Welcome Lucas and Robert
<BJ Steeves> Ditto for me on not having a question.
<Emily> I don't have a question either, though I might think of one later--can you put me at the end?
<Lucas> HI
<Robert> Strigler's Succubus is finished at 120,483 words
<Jinx> Evening, Robert
<@SLViehl> Sure, Emily, no problem.
<Kaelle> Wow, robert
<Nathan> I have a question for tonight....I think...
<@SLViehl> Whoop! Way to go, Robert
<Robert> Purr @ everyone and happy dance!
<Yvonne> congrats Robert
<Labloch> WTG Robert!
<Jinx> Yeah, Robert!
<dar> Yea, Robert!
<Robert> Put me on the list, I'll have time to phrase my question by the time it comes up.
<Jenny> Hi everyone. Robert, what are they congratulating you about?
<Kaelle> Hello to everyone who came in after me.
<Nathan> Congrats Robert
<Katherine> Hi all!
<Jinx> Evening, Jenny & Katherine
<Robert> I just finished the Aggravation Novel. It is titled Strigler's Succubus.
<Lucas> How many questioners are we up to now?
<BJ Steeves> Great job Robert!
<@SLViehl> Quick question for the group -- who DOESN'T have a question to ask tonight?
<Nathan> Hi katherine
<Robert> After the standalone villain that reforms instead of the nastier villainess that gets away into the series.
<Jenny> Cool.
<Yvonne> I don't.
<Jenny> I don't have a question.
<Jinx> Me! <raises her hand>
<BJ Steeves> I don't either.
<Emily> Great!
<Katherine> ping
<Labloch> I don't have one
<Joel_A> Congrats, Robert
<Kaelle> I dont
<dar> not sure
<Nathan> I think I have a question
<@SLViehl> Katherine, was that a no-question ping, or a yes-question ping?
<Kaelle> lol
<Katherine> That was a why isn't my window updating ping.
<Katherine> But I seem to be working now.
<@SLViehl> rofl
<Robert> Sheila, thank you for an accidental deadline. I tried to finish the book before class and that worked lol
<Katherine> I'm not sure whether I have a question or not. Put me on the list and I may pass when my turn comes.
<Anne_Marble> I don't yet.
<Jehane> hello everyone
<Kaelle> hi
<Joel_A> hi, jehane
<@SLViehl> Hi Jehane, nice to see you
<Jehane> I don't have a question today, and I"ll have to sneak out halfway through
<Jinx> Evening, Jehane
<@SLViehl> No problem -- but did I miss anyone ?
<Lucas> I have a question, so please put me on the list.
<Emily> I can't stay for long either--got work.
<Anne_Marble> Can you add me to the end? I don't know what to ask yet.
<Joel_A> I have TWO questions for the group, Sheila. Please put me down for one of them
<Nathan> My mom's not here...I (Nathan)am...and can I go later on down the list
<@SLViehl> Lucas, you're #5, Anne, I'll move you to the end. Emily, would you like Anne's place, as you have to leave early?
<@SLViehl> Okay Nathan
<Emily> Okay--but I'll probably pass. I haven't thought of a question yet.
<Joel_A> Don't forget to add yourself to the list, too, Sheila
<Robert> Ari is here too but he doesn't have a question. He just wanted to purr at everyone and eat my sleeve.
<Jinx> Feed him, Robert! <g>
<Nathan> Thanks Sheila
<Robert> lol Jinx - I did, but Siamese get very oral!
<Katherine> I may disappear and reappear at some point. Just ignore me. Husband is working on firewall.
<Jinx> Ok, Robert, I don't think I'll go there. ;-P
<@SLViehl> Okay, Katherine -- and is everyone ready to get started?
<Robert> They bite. He just skipped sleeve and bit my arm.
<Labloch> yep
<Kaelle> My little brother had a part Siamese cat that sucked on his baby blanket. Weird.
<Yvonne> that was a love nip Robert
<Kaelle> GTG, Sheila
<Robert> I know. <G> He's very traditional with love bites.
<@SLViehl> All right, welcome to the weekly Writer's Think Tank. I'm your moderator, S.L. (Sheila) Viehl
<@SLViehl> For those of you just joining us, here's basically how the session runs:
<@SLViehl> Every person on the question roster will be putting a question to the group for discussion
<@SLViehl> This is something writing-related -- what problems or quandries you're having with your work at the moment.
<@SLViehl> The group discusses the problem and offers suggestions. The more specific you can be, the better the group can respond, so keep that in mind.
<@SLViehl> I'll be watching the clock and when I call "Time", we wrap up the discussion and move on to the next name on the list.
<@SLViehl> If you think of a question during the session and want to add your name to the list, please feel free to do so.
<@SLViehl> Okay, we're rolling -- dar, you're up, Joel, you'll be next.
<dar> ACK!
<@SLViehl> dar, would you like to switch places with Joel?
<@SLViehl> lol
<dar> um, maybe that would be best
<@SLViehl> Okay, Joel, are you ready?
<Joel_A> Yes, ma'am. But will you be posting a question today, sheila?
<@SLViehl> Yep, I'm number 12
<Joel_A> Hmmm. I'll have to refresh my board.
<Anne_Marble> I thought of a question!
<Anne_Marble> (Sorry, Joel <g>)
<Joel_A> No prob, Anne
<Joel_A> Okay, here's my question:
<Anne_Marble> Well I'm already on there, so that's OK.
<Joel_A> (specific to my WIP) What are some suggestions on utilizing the setting to be "active" in a scene to showcase the POV character's personality.
<Robert> Bad weather. Weird local customs your characters violate.
<Katherine> Can you be more specific, Joel?
<@SLViehl> Direct conflict -- have some aspect of the setting present a physical or mental challenge for your character
<@SLViehl> Tell us more about the setting, Joel
<Jehane> Environmental obstacles like mountains, local flora and fauna, etc
<Robert> Deep-weaving the local customs to fit that local environment, siesta in a hot climate for example.
<Joel_A> Sure, Kath. My POV is entering a room to have breakfast. She finds what she considers the plush surroundings and the other folks joining her arrogant, rude, etc.
<Anne_Marble> Bird songs that remind him of his chldhood.
<Labloch> Do you mean having characters reacting to their setting---comments/descriptions colored by their emotions?
<Emily> What the POV character observes in a given setting can tell you a lot about his/her personality...I've got a good link about this somewhere...
<Katherine> Show how the other folks are rude.
<Joel_A> Another example: I had her subconsciously touching the tablecloth on her table and described it (the cloth) overpriced, etc.
<Lucas> If the environment makes the viewpoint character react in an unexpected way, then we'll learn something about him/her.
<@SLViehl> Have something unexpected happen -- out of the ordinary, in the middle of the meal. A rat jumps on someone's leg.
<Katherine> Comment on plush details of surroundings, for instance having her notice the detail of her chair cushion, linen napkin, etc.
<@SLViehl> Lucas and I are mind-melding tonight
<Joel_A> LOL, sheila
<Anne_Marble> Or a cockroach lands in the cream.
<Joel_A> LOL, Anne.
<Joel_A> good ideas, lucas, sheila, anne
<Jehane> your character's reactions to the others' rudeness will show her personality
<BJ Steeves> Yelling "Stroke, Stroke"
<Katherine> But be descriptive: don't say "expensive" linen, describe why it is high quality.
<Robert> One scene in Canticle for Leibowitz when the Catholic Church had reconstructed some civilization to medieval level, a high religious cleric noticed a roach floating in the punch bowl and thoughtfully gave the cup he dipped to someone else!
<Joel_A> LOL, robert
<@SLViehl> Ouch, that was nasty
<Robert> To this day I remember that sarcastic detail.
<@SLViehl> Joel, do you want a dramatic or funny scene?
<Joel_A> dramatic, sheila. this is not funny. she's not a funny person. i'm slowly building her into a eventually religious zealot
<Robert> Religious experiences and tremendously emotional reactions to them.
<Labloch> show how decadent the other people are
<Jehane> so she's likely to be a bit contemptuous of the luxury around her?
<Katherine> You might have other people say things that they think are funny and show her being stone-faced.
<Joel_A> EXACTLY, labloch. but how?
<Anne_Marble> Robert, that sounds like something a character in a Father Koesler novel would do.
<@SLViehl> A food item that she doesn't realize violates her beliefs? Like eating black pudding and finding out one of the ingredients is fresh blood?
<Joel_A> hmmm. good point, kath.
<Joel_A> no, sheila. there are no gods here except the one she has (briefly) met.
<Robert> She starts paying attention to anyone's personal misfortune that looks like punishment for a sin.
<Labloch> the linens tak so much--uh--slave labor to make, and the other diners think it's shoddy/whatever?
<Jinx> She would be disgusted with how loud and obnoxious (to her) everyone is. She would be sickened by how people are eating so much (gluttony).
<Labloch> er linens take
<Joel_A> good point, jinx
<Jinx> And she would be offended by the fact that they take it all for granted.
<@SLViehl> The Romans would purge themselves at the table to make room for more. So did other cultures.
<Lucas> A few items could be mentioned in passing that she feels strongly about. The flippancy could be irritating.
<Joel_A> good point, sheila. to show decadence....
<Jinx> Or so it might seem to her, if her thinking is rigid.
<Robert> Petty cruelty socially condoned. Someone kicks a beggar child.
<@SLViehl> Time for Joel's question #1 -- any last comments?
<Yvonne> she would be judging what people are wearing, what they're eating, how they're talking, maybe even internally ranting about trendiness and artificiality
<Joel_A> good stuff, yvonne.
<Katherine> I'm thinking of the scene in Dune where the native upper class throws wet rags on the floor.
<Joel_A> THANKS, everyone.
<Labloch> They could make rude comments about her spartan manner and dress
<@SLViehl> I'd go for something that provokes a strong emotional reaction from both sides, in opposition. And now, Joel, throw us question #2
<Lucas> People aren't even
aware of some of the issues she is concerned with.
<Joel_A> thank again, everyone. and thanks, sheila. here's my second one:
<Robert> Show that ignorance, Lucas, that's wonderful stuff.
<Joel_A> (General) What are (currently) story ideas that publishers DON'T want to seen (e.g. Adam and Eve, Star Trek wannabes, etc.)
<Anne_Marble> They could make ethnic jokes about a poorer group, just as wll-off British people in Victorian England would make comments about the Irish.
<Jinx> Right, Lucas -- people think they're just acting normally. Meanwhile, she's seething inside.
<BJ Steeves> Boy, I have a whole list of those if you want them...
<Labloch> take what you're tired of as a reader, Joel
<@SLViehl> Anything that has been done to death already. Clones of Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5. Anything with Mars.
<Labloch> and either don't do them or put a fresh spin on them.
<Robert> Whiny vampires killing people to get over their guilt.
<Yvonne> Robert>can't stand that one myself
<Kaelle> Apparently, "comic book style magic"
<@SLViehl> Killer viruses take over Earth.
<Anne_Marble> The people who used to do Amazing Stories had a great list on their guidelines.
<Robert> Anything that's badly done is my view of it.
<Katherine> Magic artifact must be destroyed.
<Labloch> asteroids hit earth
<@SLViehl> I think Holly posted a really good list on one of the general discussion threads, too -- about fantasy
<@SLViehl> Good one, Katherine.
<BJ Steeves> I would stay away from more dragon and tolkien like stories too.
<Labloch> lol Katherine
<@SLViehl> Please, no more destroy the evil possessed magic thing books.
<Lucas> "Comic book" style magic? Could you explain that? (A line or two, just for clarification.)
<Labloch> I think Holly's agent commented on her proposal
<Labloch> as such
<Kaelle> Oh, Lucas, I was sort of quoting what Holly posted from her agent on the Discussion board.
<@SLViehl> Magic without foundation. Super hero stuff that comes out of the blue
<Robert> One character can cause storms, another see through walls, another is a firestarter and no meaning behind any o fit or connection to character.
<Lucas> Ah, ok. I haven't read through that agent letter she posted.
<BJ Steeves> Ahh...XMen.
<Robert> Imitation X Men done badly, often the real X men the power is an allegory of their character, they're big allegorical characters sometimes written well.
<@SLViehl> A character who has unbelievable powers and only one weakness. The cryptonite syndrome.
<Lucas> I get it. Comic book stuff. It happens because it happens, there wouldn't be a story otherwise, and it gives an excuse for cool uniforms with easily recognizeable emblems and neat nick names.
<@SLViehl> There you go, Lucas, excellent way to put it
<Anne_Marble> Watt-Evans' Law of Literary Creation: There is no idea so stupid or hackneyed that a sufficiently-talented writer can't get a good story out of it.
<Katherine> Right. Although modern comics have lots more depth than that.
<Anne_Marble> he has some more here:
http://www.sff.net/people/lwe/miscellaneous/laws.htm
<Katherine> (Maus, for instance.)
<Robert> Thanks Katherine - that's what I was saying, sort of imitation middle series comic book stuff we needed to have that issue stuff.
<Labloch> Gaiman's Sandman series is supposed to be pretty good, too.
<Robert> It is - and the difference is that the allegory makes sense! As such! As archetype and allegory
<Joel_A> So there's no story that's really forbidden if down with a unique slant?
<Joel_A> Or good writing...
<@SLViehl> You want to find an idea that will capture your reader's imagination, Joel, and take them for a ride to someplace they've never been.
<Robert> No. I'm beginning more and more to believe "a classic is a cliche done well, a cliche is a classic done badly"
<@SLViehl> You do that, and you'll hook the reader
<Katherine> But the less unique the story, the more unique the slant and the writing will have to be.
<Kaelle> INteresting, Robert.
<Lucas> Some of those are good. I've seen a few compilations of Sandman in the library and some of the stories aren't bad.
<Robert> What if the evil artifact that must be destroyed is the last nuclear bomb on Earth and the lore of how to build it?
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments or suggestions for Joel?
<Joel_A> THANKS, everyone
<@SLViehl> Welcome, karenth -- would you like to ask the group a question tonight?
<Anne_Marble> Oh, has anyone mentioned Tough Guide to Fantasyland?
<Yvonne> lol, that's the book that got me back into fantasy
<Kaelle> Good book
<Labloch> Hi karenth
<@SLViehl> Okay, thanks to all for great suggestions -- dar, you're up
<karen_thistlehi> hi there!
<Joel_A> hi, karen_thistlehi
<Jinx> Evening, Karen
<Anne_Marble> Howdy
<Nathan> hello karen
<Robert> Hi, Karen!
<dar> I'm sorry, I've just gone stupid. maybe I should just sit in the corner over there...
<Kaelle> Hi
<Jehane> hi karen
<Lucas> Not your night, eh Dar?
<karen_thistlehi> just checking out the think tank.
<@SLViehl> dar, you want to skip or go to the end of the list?
<Katherine> Dar, weren't you asking about plotting in chat earlier?
<dar> yeah, but I don't know how to stick it into a question yet.
<dar> may i fall to end?
<@SLViehl> How about I put you at the end, dar?
<@SLViehl> okay
<dar> grazi
<@SLViehl> Emily, you're up, Lucas, you're next
<karen_thistle> (no questions yet)
<Emily> I think I'll have to pass.
<Katherine> Everyone's stuck tonight, huh?
<@SLViehl> No problem, Emily. Lucas, you're up, Robert, you're next
<Lucas> I want some equipment suggestions. The main character makes his living dealing with living slime blobs that he captures because fantastic industrial lubricants can be refined/cultured from them.
<Lucas> What kind of equipment and weaponry might he have to deal with recalcitrant slime blobs that have almost no differentiated physical features? Some of them can be very corrosive when roused, thought their chemical compositions differ by species.
<Lucas> I have already decided that he probably uses a hover craft (not anti-grav, just good old air-cushion technology) because it creates fewer vibrations in the ground to warn the blobs of his approach. I have also considered a shock-prod as something he might carry, but what other pieces of equipment might he find useful?
<Labloch> mountain-movers. <g>
<Yvonne> vacuums
<Joel_A> vacuums
<Kaelle> vaccuums,... jinx!
<Robert> Advanced ceramic containers that resist corrosion and heavy equipment coated with those ceramics
<Anne_Marble> Industrial vac.... argh!
<@SLViehl> The first thing I think of when I imagine corrosive blobs is, blob-bazooka
<Jenny> Glass. Hardly anything corrodes glass.
<Lucas> Not all are corrosive, just some of them.
<Joel_A> some sort of fire-extinguisher that freezes them temporarily
<Yvonne> does he want them dead or alive?
<Katherine> Corrisive neutralizers. Acid to deal with alkalines, and vice versa.
<Lucas> He wants the non-corrosive kind, but the acidic ones are still a danger if he runs afoul of them.
<Robert> Right, but I'm thinking advanced ceramics and glass formulas that are strong enough to be used in place of metal parts
<Jenny> Food/chemical as attractants?
<Joel_A> nano-bots. can be made to do almost anything
<Katherine> Are blobs flammable?
<Jehane> how are blobs captured? does he just sneak up behind them?
<Lucas> Some of them might be, Katherine. But I think most are kind of wet to catch on fire.
<@SLViehl> Could they be substitutes for some type of gasket or pipe sealant? Temporary leak-lockers? (the non-corrosive type)
<Anne_Marble> Combination plastic bag/net (net without the hole thingies)
<Katherine> Gasoline is wet...
<karen_thistle> personal shielding, at least for his hands and face...
<Robert> Some kind of blob killing rapid acting poison in case the nastier ones get loose.
<Jenny> An apprentice.
<Anon_20> blob protection: symbiotic bacteria who eat acid, spread thinly over his equipment and body armor....
<Lucas> He probably does have some kind of vac-unit and tank assembly for storing and transporting them.
<@SLViehl> Fuel source -- good thought, Katherine -- and the corrosive ones could wreak havoc on an engine
<Katherine> Petroleum-based slime could be very flammable. Like napalm.
<Lucas> That would make sense, anyway.
<Joel_A> an artificial blob made from nanobots that captures the living slime bobs like amobeas capture (and eat) paramiciums
<Joel_A> LOL, jenny
<Jehane> (hello anon_20. if you put your name in the "name" box we'll know who you are)
<@SLViehl> Liquid suspension for transportation -- some type of anti-freeze, maybe
<Robert> An intelligent nanostructure that formed vacuoles for different types and sorted them would be elegant.
<@SLViehl> Or gel suspension. Would probably be better to go with a gel
<Anne_Marble> Good idea, anon. Stunt men use a sort of gel to protect against fire (in combination with other things)
<Robert> Filtration that can eliminate microblobs or seed blobs from air and water systems.
<@SLViehl> Would they have more practical application in earth industry or space industry, Lucas?
<Joel_A> do these blobs have natural enemies? if so, what are their techiques to avoiding the acidity?
<karen_thistle> or do aliens like them?
<@SLViehl> Maybe the blobs are aliens . . .
<Robert> Processing equipment in mobile factory to reduce blobs to valuable components through everything from centriguging to more esoteric processes.
<karen_thistle> unhappy to be harvested for industrial use...
<Lucas> I'm not sure I have differentiated between space and earth uses. They are superior to petroleum lubricants, and easier to get, because most Earth oil reserves are badly depleted.
<Robert> The processing equipment could be dangerous to ahuman, reducing anything organic to its valuable chemistry
<@SLViehl> Bio-blob gel preservative -- they could be the new dry-ice of the future
<@SLViehl> Oh, so they're fuel-based, okay
<Jehane> is there a "blob preservation" society?
<Lucas> No, they're just lubricants, not fuel.
<Yvonne> (watch out for those Save the Blob activists)
<karen_thistle> lol!
<Lucas> At least that's all they are so far.
<@SLViehl> Anything with moving parts is going to need a long-lasting lubricant
<@SLViehl> no pun intended
<Joel_A> sheila!
<dar> ACK!
<karen_thistle> snarf
<Robert> And she looks like too many of my heroines too, I saw the picture.
<@SLViehl> I'd look to the industrial needs of the society -- what machines do they use
<@SLViehl> I'm serious, you guys
<@SLViehl> lol
<karen_thistle> colonists could use something like that.
<Joel_A> what is this remark towards guys, sheila?
<BJ Steeves> Ball bearings?
<Kaelle> snarf
<Lucas> There are strict laws preventing the harvesting of them, to prevent upsetting the ecosystem of their home planet. So far, people can't make them, so the situation is analogous to rounding up wild cattle on the plains.
<Katherine> Git along, little blobbies.
<Lucas> Though of course people do harvest them, they just have to go with the guidelines.
<Joel_A> what do they (the blobs) eat? can their food be fixed to put them to sleep?
<Jinx> Quick-freezing them would aid in picking them up and transporting them.
<karen_thistle> blob poachers...
<Jehane> no way of farming them?
<BJ Steeves> HAte to be on that "cattle drive".
<Robert> Big ponds for farming them with their nutrients piped in like catfish farms
<Katherine> Do they stampede?
<Yvonne> stampeding blobs, now there's a sight, lol
<Robert> Do they breed the more economically useful ones like everything from algae up to cattle?
<Lucas> Jehane - So far people don't properly understand their food sources and environment requirements, so any farming attempts are purely experimental.
<Katherine> How smart are they? Like cattle, or like big bacteria?
<karen_thistle> how do they reproduce, anyhow?
<@SLViehl> You know, Lucas, you might check into the various ways soy and peanuts are used -- I think they have like a ga-zillion applications
<Lucas> They're more like big bacterial blobs.
<karen_thistle> not viable outside their home environment, i presume?
<Robert> Are any varieties edible and cultivated as a food item or luxury condiment?
<Katherine> Are they big enough to surround and absorb a person? (Which is how bacteria eat.)
<Yvonne> <whispers>until someone finds out they're intelligent
<Anne_Marble> Giant blobquariums
<@SLViehl> Ugh, Katherine -- good idea, but gruesome
<Lucas> They just kind of split apart when they get to a certain size. It is possible for certain kinds of them to get whopping big, but it doesn't happen often.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments or suggestions for Lucas?
<Joel_A> cool idea, lucas
<karen_thistle> just that this idea seems really fertile
<Robert> There'd be a growing library and taxonomy on them, identification list
<Kaelle> Competition in vacuum makers.
<Robert> And I'd watch those suckers for adapting rapidly to predation pressure considering they already have some acidic ones that can defend themselves!
<karen_thistle> spouts of acid launched
<@SLViehl> Okay, thanks for many great ideas, folks -- Robert, you're up, then we'll be taking a five minute break
<Lucas> Newly adapted defense mechanisms, thats a good point. And thanks for all the ideas!
<Lucas>
<Robert> I just finished Strigler's Succubus and I'm still excited and still very aware of some changes I want to make at the front end.
<Robert> I would appreciate any and all suggestions for rewrite method since I think this time I'm leaping to rewrite immediately real soon
<Joel_A> I personally recommend you take a break from the WIP, robert
<Robert> Rewrite methods plural - since I was making changes while writing this time too and those improved it.
<@SLViehl> Take it one chapter at a time -- read through once for content, make your changes, then make your final read-through for typos.
<@SLViehl> Good suggestion, Joel -- a couple of days might help, Robert.
<karen_thistle> well....i usually reread. stuff will gnaw or just go twang! that's wrong.
<Kaelle> Do you have your story arcs down?
<Jenny> For my revision, I made an outline with a few sentences per scene, and looked through the whole thing for continuity and such before the actual rewrite.
<Robert> Yes. I was thinking of beginning by working up my synopsis and cast list carefully to judge whether to drop or combine any characters, things like that. Like Jenny just said
<Anne_Marble> I do spell checks because I usually find other sentences that need help while looking at the dialog box.
<@SLViehl> I also read dialogue out loud on the final read-through, Robert -- to get a feel for it, does it sound right, etc.
<karen_thistle> yeah, anne...
<@SLViehl> Not all the dialogue, but whatever bugs me
<Katherine> Not a technique so much as a logistics suggestion: Whenever I have to add big sections, I use a different color paper and/or ink from the main text.
<karen_thistle> my revisions are handwritten.
<karen_thistle> at first
<Katherine> Now that you know how it ends, think about ways to foreshadow and/or add red herrings.
<@SLViehl> If I find a logic problem further on in the manuscript, I keep running notes on a note pad, too -- what I have to go back and correct, rather than go back and correct it.
<Kaelle> Hmm, I use different colors of hi-lighting on the document while on the computer to alert me to trouble sections.
<@SLViehl> Then I do all the final fixes at once
<Robert> Thanks, Katherine - that's what sparked me to do it fairly soon because I noticed things like last chapter someone mentioned a character's mannerism and teased him, I want that in at beginning.
<@SLViehl> Try to avoid hopping back and forth -- if you read straight through, and revise straight through, you get more of a feel for the scope of the book
<Robert> I like that idea, Sheila - I have been keeping notes on a lot of stuff throughout.
<Katherine> How can you add depth? Recurring themes and symbols, for instance?
<Robert> That's sort of what I hoped was possible. It's got depth already. It wants polish and detail and fine tuning and maybe some slight fiddling with the minor cast. main cast were brilliant
<@SLViehl> Good point Katherine -- also, remember your senses, Robert -- are you giving the reader colors, textures, smells, etc.
<Katherine> (Reference my question in last week's Think Tank, where the relationship between protag and antag kept getting more complex.)
<Robert> Oooh yeah, that just gave me a brilliant idea for one more raising the stakes point in the final confession - oh yeah.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments or suggestions for Robert?
<Katherine> Since this is part of a series, have you started all the threads that you want to leave hanging for later books?
<Robert> Strigler's Succubus would do anything to become human. Anything.
<Robert> Oh yeah. This worked on that level, they can take off, if a publisher bought that cast I could get three, five, seven books out of them.
<@SLViehl> Watch out for housekeeping dialogue/characters -- always keep the reader turning pages, that's what I look for.
<Robert> And that's the hook line I couldn't derive till I finished it.
<@SLViehl> Thanks to everyone for some great suggestions -- now, we'll be taking a five minute break, then Katherine, you're up.
<Katherine> OK.
<Nathan> brb
<Kaelle> brb
<Joel_A> brb
<Anne_Marble> brb
<@SLViehl> Brb, I'm off to raid the kettle
<karen_thistle> brb
<Robert> Thank you! Purr@everyone!~ I am so ready... brb though. Been scribing, will still scribe
<Jehane> have to go. bye everyone
<labloch> sorry I missed your question, Robert--Netscape was fractious.
<Jenny> Bye, Jehane.
<Joel_A> night, jehane
<labloch> bye Jehane
<@SLViehl> Night Jehane
<Nathan> back
<labloch> (and apologies to Lucas, too)
<Nathan> bye jehane
<Lucas> Apologies to me? Eh? For what?
<labloch> missing your question
<@SLViehl> Sophie got bumped offline, Lucas
<Lucas> Oh, ok. No problem. Hope you got your system knocked back into line.
<labloch> (fingers crossed)
<@SLViehl> Jinx, are you still with us? (knocking wooden desk here)
<Anne_Marble> Knocking pressed wood
<Jinx> I'm here!
<karen_thistle> back
<Robert> yayy Jinx, wb Karen
<@SLViehl> Jinx usually gets bumped at least once a session, is why I'm checking
<Jinx> Shhh!!!
<@SLViehl> (Clapping hand over mouth)
<Jinx> I was trying to make it all the way through at least once! <g>
<labloch> quick, everybody whip out your good-luck charms!
<Lucas> Ooh, say, in case everyone doesn't already know, I'm running a class on Sumerian Mythology tomorrow night. Whee! I hope to see a few folks there.
<@SLViehl> I'm lighting my authentic voodoo priestess-blessed candle here
<Joel_A> hmmm. what time, lucas?
<Jinx> I'm going to try and make it, Lucas
<@SLViehl> What time, Lucas?
<Nathan> what time, Lucas?
<karen_thistle> um...no rabbit's foots...will a kitty paw, do? still attached, of course.
<Lucas> It starts the same time this one did tonight.
<Robert> Oh cool. I already marked it on my calendar
<Jinx> Kitty paws are always welcome. Attached, of course.
<@SLViehl> I'll be there, if the kids let me
<Robert> Kitty paws as long as cat is attached are always lucky
<Nathan> I won't be able to make it...sorry Lucas
<Joel_A> did you also post it on hollylisle.com, lucas?
<Lucas> It's up on the calendar.
<karen_thistle> all will be well
<karen_thistle>
<@SLViehl> Final call for bathroom/beverages/whatever
<Joel_A> hi, anon_80
<@SLViehl> brb, grabbing another muffin
<Nathan> hi Anon_80
<Blair> hiya
<karen_thistle> hi blair
<Jinx> It's Blair!
<Lucas> I'll be putting a message up on the discussion board tomorrow, just be sure people know about it.
<labloch> 'lo blair
<Lucas> Ok Shiela. It would be nice to see you there. I hope you get the chance.
<Anne_Marble> Howdy
<Nathan> Hi Blair
<Jinx> Doing better, Blair? Good to see you.
<Joel_A> hi, blairB
<Kaelle> bak, I'll try to get to your session, Lucas
<Robert> Hi Blair! Purr!
<@SLViehl> Hey, Blair!
<BJ Steeves> Well, I'm gonna cut this session short. I haven't been feeling well all week, thanks to the flu.
<Lucas> It's Blair. Hi Blair.
<Jinx> Night, BJ. Hope you feel better!
<Kaelle> Keep well, BJ!
<karen_thistle> feel better soon!
<@SLViehl> Night BJ -- thanks for stopping in
<Jenny> Bye, BJ. Get better soon.
<labloch> night BJ, get better
<Blair> i'm just here for a little sanity
<Lucas> Goodnight BJ. Get plenty of sleep and knock out that flu!
<@SLViehl> Blair may be typing slow because of his hand
<Robert> Take care of yourself, Blair.
<Nathan> bye BJ
<Joel_A> night, BJ
<Jinx> Sanity? Here? <g>
<@SLViehl> Sanity we got plenty of.
<Lucas> Blair, you're here looking for
WHAT?
<Lucas>
<karen_thistle> hullo anon 85
<@SLViehl> We write about it all the time, don't we, group?
<Nathan> Hi scott
<@SLViehl> Welcome, Scott
<Jinx> Evening, Scott
<Anne_Marble> Blair, why would you want a thing like that?!
<Katherine> And deprive our characters of it as much as possible.
<Scott> Sorry I'm late
<karen_thistle> hi scott
<Robert> Sure. Nothing wierd is weird to me!
<Lucas> Sure, it's a fascinating topic for speculative fiction.
<Kaelle> Writing about it and having it, Sheila. Um, two diff things. <g>
<Joel_A> hi, scott
<@SLViehl> Blair and Scott, would you like to ask a question tonight?
<labloch> hi Scott
<Blair> not me thanks
<@SLViehl> So true, Kae
<Lucas> It will probaly remain purely theoretical in our lifetimes, but it does make for fascinating stories.
<Kaelle> <g>
<Robert> I think I attain it for short periods of time while trying to destroy it in characters. <G>
<Scott> WEll, this isn't really a proper question, but Sheila did you contribute a story to Eric Flint's upcoming 1632 anthology?
<karen_thistle> lol
<@SLViehl> Yep.
<@SLViehl> Katherine, are you ready? Anne, you're next, btw
<Scott> Ah. Thought so. Me, too
<Katherine> Yep, I'm ready. Though I'm not sure how coherent my question is...
<@SLViehl> Throw it at us. We can handle it.
<Katherine> My WIP is historical fantasy, set in Venice ca.1500.
<Katherine> There was a important battle that year between Venice and the Ottoman Empire.
<Katherine> I don't want to change the outcome, but do want to change the details. Can I play fast and loose with historical reality?
<Kaelle> alternate history?
<karen_thistle> i would say so...
<Robert> It's fantasy. If you establish early on enough that it's fantasy, I think you can play with the details.
<Scott> Why not. You're writing fantasy, not history.
<labloch> I forget--who won? Cyprus and trade routes were in the balance, right?
<Katherine> (Basically I want to make my MC's father allegedly responsible for the Venetian navy getting slaughtered.)
<@SLViehl> If it's radical, , you can always call it alternate history
<Katherine> See, that
<Katherine> That's the thing. I don't want it to be radical enough to be alternate history.
<@SLViehl> If it's minor, you can acknowledge what portion of historic detail you changed in an afterword section
<@SLViehl> Lots of authors take liberties with history without changing it to suit their stories
<Lucas> Is everything else strictly in line with real world events?
<Robert> That's like the Society for Creative Anachronism's way of dealing with substitutions - if you know that should have been silk and document it, rayon will do on a project
<labloch> can you use magic in historical fantasy? Cuz you could do a body-mind switch thingmie...
<Katherine> Before the battle, yes. After, things start to drift.
<Kaelle> There might have been a cover up on who actually was responsible.
<Anne_Marble> Diana Gabaldon moved a major battle ahead nearly a hundred years in her first book, I think.
<@SLViehl> You'd need to cite what portion of history you've adapted, Katherine -- Ken Follet did a really good afterword in one of his books, I think it was Pillars of the Earth
<Katherine> I'm using magic. And showing how the existence of magic would have changed things.
<dar> Thinking of Book of Kells....
<@SLViehl> Interesting
<Robert> Then establish the magic way in the beginning of chapter one and you have a free hand with it.
<Joel_A> clear
<Katherine> (This is the same WIP as last week, for those who were around.)
<Robert> But the afterword would be nice too
<Kaelle> What Robert said. I'd read it.
<labloch> Ditto
<@SLViehl> History buffs like to know what you've done, so the afterword is a good idea
<Robert> I'm enough of a history buff to want to read the afterword when the setting grabs me. <G>
<Katherine> Darn, that means I have to actually get the research right!
<@SLViehl> But as long as history remains basically intact, it's not alternate history
<labloch> Make the magic and the historical clear from the start, with afterword explaining the divergence.
<Anne_Marble> Better to put it in the afterword. Some writers put it in the forward and annoy people.
<@SLViehl> Yes, please -- don't do a foreword!
<Kaelle> Yes, not in the Foreword!
<@SLViehl> Ruins the plot for those who aren't history buffs
<Robert> Yeah, cause I fiddle with afterwords after reading, during it I'd rather suspend disbelief and enjoy the novel.
<Katherine> Gak! No, I hate forewords too.
<labloch> Some people skip the foreword. (looks innocent)
<@SLViehl> lol Sophie
<Robert> But it's okay at the beginning to thank anyone who helped with the research.
<@SLViehl> Yes, acknowledgements come first
<Lucas> <ping> (Let's see if this is still working...)
<Katherine> So basically I can do whatever I want as long as I don't cheat?
<Lucas> Aack! It's frozen.
<labloch> <g>
<Kaelle> I'd say so, Katherine
<@SLViehl> As long as historic events play out as recorded in our books, it's not alternate history
<@SLViehl> Lucas, we see you, do you see us?
<Jinx> He's gone...
<Katherine> By the end of the book, things will have diverged a fair amount. But it's a drift, not a radical shift like, say 1632.
<Robert> I am still getting everything, but slowly in spurts.
<@SLViehl> What you're doing, Katherine, is really writing a "secret" history instead of an alternative
<@SLViehl> Welcome back, Lucas
<Katherine> Hmmm.... possibly.
<Kaelle> Slow spurts....is that any oxymoron, Robert? <g>
<Lucas> Thanks. The window froze up. Bleh.
<Robert> That's intriguing if you do a sequel in a later period and degree of drift is constant.
<Lucas> Perhaps infrequent spurts would be a more appropriate phrasing?
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments/suggestions for Katherine?
<Kaelle> Yeah, finish quickly. I want to read it.
<Kaelle> grin
<@SLViehl> Lucas is starting to remind me of James.
<Robert> It's a fascinaating premise and has its own place! Do it! Print it!
<labloch> Venice! 'nuff said.
<Katherine> LOL! That's what JTD said a few days ago. Thanks for the encouragement.
<@SLViehl> It's a very original idea, Katherine -- go for it
<Anne_Marble> Venice rocks. Carnival!
<Katherine> Aw, shucks...
<karen_thistle> "ah...venice"
<@SLViehl> All right, thanks all -- Anne, you're up, Nathan, you're next
<Anne_Marble> "Cry to Heaven" was set there.
<Anne_Marble> What do mages wear under their robes?
Just kidding... How many hints should I drop about my hero's background (the reason he fears mages) in the first couple of chapters? I don't want people thinking he has no motivation when he does. Should I keep the whole truth hidden for a while and drop hints? (And what if I haven't decided yet?)
<Robert> Venice, poison, betrayal, love tragedy, yeah male sopranos, scummy canals... oh yeah
<Joel_A> drop hints, anne. keep us guessing!
<@SLViehl> I wouldn't give it all away, Anne -- keep feeding bits to the reader
<Robert> Phobias do not always have rational motivations. I'd believe it presented as phobia.
<Lucas> Maybe he's afraid of magic because he
does know what they wear under their robes...
<Kaelle> Hints, teasers, yeah.
<Nathan> Drop hints
<Anne_Marble> Good, because that will give me a chance to rewrite all his background later. ;->
<@SLViehl> Flashes of memories that aren't explained -- verbal reactions -- physical reactions -- all shown, not told, to the reader
<Anne_Marble> I know he saw mages kill and torture people. that's a start.
<Katherine> Why does he fear mages? Fear of the unknown, or some specific reason?
<Robert> Show some unexplained reactions he doesn't understand to things like the way amage turns a spit with meat on it, because that one moved like a torturer
<@SLViehl> This is the character who raped a mage, right, Anne?
<Anne_Marble> Either he saw evil mages torture his family while he was helpless, or he saw them kill lots of people on a battlefield with one spell.
<Anne_Marble> Yes, that's the guy. Fun character, isn't he?
<@SLViehl> Dark stuff
<Anne_Marble> Good idea, Robert.
<labloch> why'd he do that?
<Kaelle> Torture is more immediate, gut reaction, I think
<Anne_Marble> It's a looong story..
<@SLViehl> How do we react when confronted with our darkest fears? That's how I'd play it.
<Robert> Inexplicable panic attacks, cold sweats, flashbacks that seem incomprehensible even to him. And to things like a blue robe too. Details trigger it.
<Katherine> Maybe the people on the battlefield died in an especially horrible way? (Torture + mass slaughter.)
<Anne_Marble> He liked Wulf, feared Wulf, all at the same time.
<labloch> I vote for torture, too, and flashes of it at the beginning. Stench of burning flesh, the stench of bad spells in the air...
<Lucas> Giving him trigger points, things that set him off out of proportion to their reality because of the associations he has with them, is one way to do it, similar to what Robert is suggesting.
<Robert> That and seeing a child tortured while he was one.
<Anne_Marble> I was thinking they all froze and shattered, like goldfish in one of those experiments with liquid thingie
<@SLViehl> Innocent images and sounds that can trigger memories.
<Robert> I'm getting over a trauma induced phobia of hospitals myself, my symptoms aren't as bad as some but I know sometimes things like a smell of disinfectant set it off.
<@SLViehl> Like, he sees ice falling from a roof, and remembers one of his family shattering
<Anne_Marble> Oh, that's good. And it's already cold in the setting...
<@SLViehl> and totally freaks out over something otherwise completely ordinary
<Kaelle> Maybe both situations occurred.
<@SLViehl> If ice gets on him, he goes crazy trying to brush it off
<Robert> Yeah, nothing says the evil mages couldn't be creative
<Anne_Marble> Well he is freaked out enough, Kaelle.
<Jinx> Flashbacks
<labloch> Like someone crunching on ice, like the mages crunched on the shards of dead people
<Lucas> Could you work in (just to confuse the issue) things that would be menacing to most people but somehow relax him? Something that wasn't good that occured in the mage environment, but compared to the torture was almost welcome?
<@SLViehl> Ooooh, gross, Sophie -- but good
<Kaelle> Oooh, Sheila, labloch, shivers running over me.
<labloch> dark and twisted minds...<g>
<Katherine> Good idea, Lucas. He's a barbarian, and so may not blanch at some fairly, uh, barbaric stuff.
<@SLViehl> Good red herring suggestion, Lucas
<Anne_Marble> We love toturing characters. Sometimes literally.
<karen_thistle> this is fascinating. shudderingly so.
<Anne_Marble> I'm thinking, Lucas, I'm thinking.
<Robert> His comfort foods may be exotic, his comfort environment would be.
<Anne_Marble> roast boar...
<Robert> Loud wild drumming might be a comfort sound because of local custom where he grew up
<@SLViehl> The obvious would be not flinching when he is exposed to something like a victim of extreme torture, or the remains of one
<Katherine> He likes sword battles. They're straightforward and he's good at them.
<Jenny> Until his sword shatters...
<karen_thistle> clean death...
<labloch> nice, Jenny
<Robert> Then he's used to ordinary gore but shattering bodies would be nightmare, a swordsman can't block that
<@SLViehl> Cutting off someone's head in battle -- no problem. Ice cubes in a glass, problem.
<@SLViehl> Great idea, Jenny
<Anne_Marble> Maybe this is why he became a ranger. He got to keep to himself most of the time.
<labloch> lol Sheila
<@SLViehl> Honest blood and guts fighting wouldn't upset this guy. Anything remotely associated with magic would, right Anne?
<karen_thistle> the hero facade versus the traumatized child
<Anne_Marble> Yes, and he's stuck in the middle of a bunch of mages.
<Robert> Magic distorts reality. He may have been levitated and thrown as a child during the mayhem, then forgotten
<Robert> Reality itself distorted, the ground gone from under his feet.
<Scott> Maybe he wears dozens of little amulets to ward off magic.
<@SLViehl> So a little packet of herbs or a small spell could send him into berserker mode, while a full field of warriors running toward him would be old hat.
<labloch> Oooh, he could have been raped by a mage as a child/youth. Male or female.
<Katherine> PTSD flashbacks all over the place.
<Jinx> There might be a huge conflict between what he's feeling and what he wants to "show" to the mages around him.
<labloch> With an animated cadaver, to make it worse, for their fun.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments or suggestions for Anne?
<Katherine> You're a sick puppy.
<labloch> Oh man, I am sick.
<Robert> The cadaver was someone he loved and trusted. Mages can make Mom betry you
<Lucas> He might be seeking a way to bring the conflict down to his own level.
<Joel_A> wonderful, labloch!
<@SLViehl> We are a ghastly bunch tonight
<Anne_Marble> I thought of the prior rape thing.... I guess I've read it in so many romance novels, I wasn't sure if I'd use that. But the cadaver idea... oooooh
<karen_thistle> wow...
<Anne_Marble> Thanks for being so sick, everybody. ;->
<labloch> "You want dark, I'll give ya dark.."
<Lucas> That's gruesome.
<@SLViehl> Dark we can do.
<Robert> Some sicko thought it would be fun to make a cadaver do it and he was left for dead?
<Joel_A> you're StarDoc character does WHAT, sheila, as a profession?
<Lucas> But it would work!
<labloch> "Mom...no--noooo"
<karen_thistle> eeeeeeeeekkkk
<Jenny> Ewwwww.
<Kaelle> snarf
<@SLViehl> She cuts people open and fixes them, Joel. lol
<Katherine> <shudder>
<Anne_Marble> That would be great for the time he finally spills his background to Wulf...
<Joel_A> ouch, sheila
<labloch> Okay, I'll stop. <g>
<@SLViehl> All right, thanks all -- Nathan, you're up, and Robert, does Ari want to ask a question?
<Nathan> In my WIP The MC's hometown (which, might I mention is on Mars) gets blown up, and I was wondering, what non-nuclear bomb could do such a thing and leave stores on the outskirts of the city?
<karen_thistle> (i gotta learn how to open the dark door...)
<Anne_Marble> Sheila, does that make it slash fiction?
<labloch> H-bomb.
<Robert> Ari has a little one to lighten things up.
<Yvonne> a fuel bomb
<Nathan> H-bomb?
<Kaelle> <groan at Anne>
<labloch> TNT, C-4
<Joel_A> particle beam from space
<@SLViehl> Cluster bomb
<labloch> not H-bomb, sorry. I didn't read the last part.
<Nathan> C-4?
<Kaelle> Oxygen tanks
<@SLViehl> Laser beam -- good idea, Joel, specific targeting
<labloch> plasti-explosive
<Scott> Yes, a fuel-air explosive. Maybe something mixed into the air supply system.
<Katherine> Yeah, oxygen tanks. Which they'll need on mars anyway.
<Lucas> Just about any variety of bomb could wipe out the heart of a city and leave the outskirts, couldn't it? It just depends on what the tech in your story allows for and what the plot line calls for.
<labloch> Lasers--nice.
<Joel_A> actually I was thinking more of an atom smasher, sheila
<Joel_A> or particle accelerator
<Jinx> It would also depend if there were secondary fires, explosions and what-not.
<Lucas> How did the bomb get there?
<labloch> Focused sonic boom, maybe
<Robert> Molecular disruption flew well in the old days, even a few molecules suddenly disrupting is a mess
<@SLViehl> You'd need one the size of Kansas, Joel.
<Katherine> Power plant accident sets air supply on fire.
<Lucas> Was it launched on an interplanetary rocket? Smuggled in inside a suitcase? Or what?
<Scott> Is it an enclosed city? A dome?
<Anne_Marble> Does it have to blow up?
How about a bacterial attack instead?
<labloch> How about the sewage system clogged, then exploding? <g>
<@SLViehl> Oxygen as a catalyst for the bomb, excellent idea -- Mars would require artificial atmospheres
<karen_thistle> methane!
<Joel_A> The disintigrator(?) from Larry Niven's Known Space series. It surpresses the electron charge of an atom. The modified electron and the proton violently repulse each other. Feels like a strong wind
<Nathan> I guess it'd have to be enclosed
<Robert> Bacterial attack that destroys insulation and rubber valves
<Kaelle> Good one, Sophie
<@SLViehl> Methane is good too, karen
<Joel_A> hmmm. How about a space ramjet, sheila? And aim the "exhaust" at the planet below?
<@SLViehl> Sonic waves, concentrated, same as a laser
<labloch> What effects do you want from the bomb, Nathan?
<labloch> er explosion
<Anne_Marble> Oooh, good one, Robert. Didja ever read Kathyrn Lance's "Pandora's Genes?" A bacteria that ate petroleum spills got carried away.
<Yvonne> do you want one bomb in the center of town or something in the system that explodes everywhere?
<@SLViehl> You'd need really precise targeting and delivery for that one, Joel
<Nathan> I want it to destroy the city that the MC lives in while he is away so that I can have a story
<labloch> You could have a ship crash into the city's bubble.
<Robert> I probably did, it was something like that. I would then want an aerosol dispersion with a lot of little cherybomb type things that would bang around in ventilation system then destroy all flexible sealants
<Katherine> earthbound rocket blows up on the launchpad.
<Joel_A> larry niven's disintigrator was rifle
<Lucas> The explosion could come from several hundred walkmans that had just been distributed to the population. Mini-bombs all set to go off when the six o'clock news started.
<Yvonne> so it could be an accident?
<@SLViehl> Dome breach, if it's a dome city -- decompression would wreck a lot of buildings. possibly
<Nathan> No...it's a terrorist attack
<Robert> Oh dome breach would be great. Especially if it was on the key structural points multiple breach.
<Katherine> Earthquake breaches dome.
<Yvonne> marsquake
<@SLViehl> I like that idea, Lucas -- delivered to the location by the populace
<Nathan> Marsquake, actually
<Lucas> A meteor could hit it, especially if someone diverted it's course on purpose. Though the terrorists would have to be pretty sophisticated to do that, so maybe it isn't too likely.
<Joel_A> a micro-wormhole bomb. held in a statis field until the location. when it goes off, WHAM
<@SLViehl> Oh, Yvonne, Marsquake -- great word!
<labloch> asteroid hulled out breaches dome.
<Jinx> Do buildings have to be destroyed, or just the inhabitants?
<@SLViehl> Cold fusion bombs. Wouldn't be detected
<Robert> Deliberate seismic disturbance caused by planting explosives on a fault line. Marsquake - but deliberate.
<Joel_A> Robert L. Forward's Indistiguishable from Magic could be applicable
<Nathan> all of the buildings except the travel store
<Katherine> Do you want it destroyed, or just uninhabitable? For instance, genetically engineered bacteria in food synthesizers get loose.
<labloch> Why not the travel store?
<Nathan> and the inhabitants of course
<@SLViehl> You think the plates would withstand that kind of pressure without a major reaction, Robert?
<Robert> Deliberate Marsquake would have the advantage the drill sites might not even be in the city if they're good enough at seismic engineering
<@SLViehl> I'm thinking magma here
<Lucas> A fuel line or processing center could be taken out by a small terrorist bomb.
<Nathan> because the travel stores owners are going to be helping the MC
<Robert> If they're terrorists they might not care
<@SLViehl> But Nathan needs one store to remain intact -- the travel store
<Jinx> Hrmm... if the cities are enclosed, you might get an all-or-nothing effect. Perhaps a nearby enclosure would have the travel store, and the underground travel system (subway?) is still intact?
<labloch> You could have the terrorists sabotage the anti-quake mechanisms
<Nathan> Yeah...precisly, Jinx
<Robert> Put it on a crawler and it goes BACK to the disaster zone when it used to be t he Crawler Country Store with everything travel related and followed a route
<labloch> Or the travel store is run by this kooky dude who's both ostracized and on the city limits by choice?
<Katherine> Does it need to be a formal store. Or could owners and MC salvage the wreckage together?
<Lucas> Maybe the travel store is really antiquated, it has its own airlock because it used to be one of the original colony pods.
<Jinx> That way, HIS city is completely destroyed, but he can find his way to the travel store which may be in the nearby enclosure. Or maybe even underground itself.
<Robert> Even if there's magma, anyone who's suited and manages to stay out from under the ash could survive unlike Pompeii
<@SLViehl> Bomb-shelter type structure that survives the blast -- I see where you're going, Lucas
<Lucas> It used the rustic appeal of having its own equipment as an add gimmick.
<karen_thistle> very elegant, lucas
<Scott> Maybe the whole city is under a dome--which the terrorists blow open--except for the travel store which is outside next to the spaceport and hence unaffected.
<@SLViehl> There are houses here in Florida, built in the 30's, that could withstand a nuclear attack
<Nathan> That's actually basically the case, Lucas
<Jinx> That would fit, Lucas -- he could get to through the underground transport system.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments or suggestions for Nathan?
<Katherine> Marsquake would be very bad for subway.
<Nathan> definitally
<karen_thistle> (i'd better take off, folks. this has been great!)
<Robert> I love the way you had the local Abercrombie n Fitch survive, that's too cool, Nathan
<@SLViehl> Night karen
<Jinx> Night, Karen
<Joel_A> night, karen
<labloch> night karen!
<Kaelle> Night!
<Nathan> bye karen
<karen_thistle> night all!
<Robert> Night, Karen! Happy writing!
<Anne_Marble> Night Karen
<dar> night karen
<karen_thistle> thanks robert!
<Jenny> Bye, Karen.
<Lucas> Goodnight Karen.
<Jinx> Part of the story may be him trying to make his way through those tunnels, and eventually succeeding.
<@SLViehl> All right, thanks to everyone for being excellent bomb-makers. Ari is up, and then I'm next
<Robert> <Ari> Purr. Should the sacred little temple cat stay ambiguous as to whether she's the Goddess in cat form or just a little temple cat who thinks the word 'priestess' means 'food person'?
<@SLViehl> lol Robert
<Kaelle> ambiguous fits a cat
<@SLViehl> I like the idea of not knowing for sure -- it fits the feline nature
<Anne_Marble> I like ambiguous.
<Yvonne> ambiguous definitely, you can never be sure about cats
<dar> ambiguous is redundant there
<Katherine> One more vote for ambiguous. Lots of opportunities to confuse priestess with coincidences, that might not be.
<Lucas> She can be both, can't she
<Kaelle> lol - right, dar!
<Robert> Purr! Unanimous ambiguity! Lady cats are goddesses. Yep! Purr@Lucas
<@SLViehl> I bet Ari is sitting there next to the computer and giving Robert the "Well, duh" look
<Robert> hehehe yep.
<Robert> My furry muse. You're next Sheila! Purr <bash>
<@SLViehl> Okay, warning to dar -- you're after me
<dar>
<@SLViehl> Here's my situation: I have my secret agent heroine downloading an evil Chinese tong leader's computer database over the phone line from his bedroom to a surveillance van outside, tapped into the phone lines.
<@SLViehl> And, as you know, it takes a few minutes to download an entire computer system, so when the evil tong leader's son walks in, she has to stall for time to complete the download and remove the special modem
<Nathan> Godnight all..my mom will take over for me
<Joel_A> night, nathan
<Jinx> Night, Nathan
<sophie> cool, Raven!
<Jenny> G'night, Nathan.
<Robert> G'night, Nathan! Happy writing!
<@SLViehl> What can she do that will not require her to have sex with this man, other than a teasing seduction that ends with her smashing a vase over his head.
<dar> night
<@SLViehl> Night Nathan
<Kaelle> Night Nathan, Hi Gayle
<sophie> night Nathan
<sophie> fight him would be another obvious choice
<Lucas> Why does it take a "special modem"? Could she just be using the normal kind, since the other agents are tapping into the phone line anyway? Or does the normal one encrypt the data in some way so she has to use a different one?
<Robert> Fast talk like a geek that she's there FIXING the computer and it crashed!
<Joel_A> especially if she's been trained.
<sophie> hypnotize.
<Jinx> Hmm... he will obviously be suspicious of her, no?
<Katherine> One technical point: If she has physical access to computer, can she plug in a CD-ROM burner and just copy the database. Might be faster?
<Joel_A> good point, katherine
<Robert> She'd need to speak geekisch and she'd have to be able to snow the son about waht she's doing. She'd need a screen saver that looked technical like a diagnostic tool.
<Kaelle> Yeah, Katherine.
<@SLViehl> Oh, good out, Katherine
<sophie> Or a super-duper magnetic tape?
<Lucas> Is she trying to keep her cover despite this discovery?
<Katherine> And that way when she's caught she has the hardware to prove she's "fixing" it.
<sophie> She could code that diagnostic screen saver as the dude approaches...
<Jinx> Are the newer burners faster? Cuz ours isn't very. <g>
<sophie> (or have it ready, duh)
<@SLViehl> He's convinced she's after him (which she has encouraged him to believe). He doesn't see her do anything to the computer
<Robert> A business card and some other cover stuff would help. Right. She'd have to have that running too.
<Anne_Marble> You mean she couldn't just take out the entire hard drive?
<sophie> He thinks she's got the hots for him?
<@SLViehl> He can't know she's messed with the computer, either.
<Anne_Marble> (OK, I guess he'd notice that.)
<Kaelle> There's some very fast burners just out.. (I read Computer Shopper mag_
<Robert> So the seduction's backward, he's sexually harassing the computer repair gal and then she clobbers him
<@SLViehl> She's at his home as a party guest.
<Lucas> She might have to get him to leave the room for a moment so she could remove the device without him noticing.
<@SLViehl> Wanders up to the bedroom, pretending to look for the bathroom, to do the intell work
<sophie> No sex, no ditz, hmm
<Robert> Then she'd set that up in some way with the device in a bag or something and be distracting.
<Yvonne> could she pretend to be violently sick drunk and looking for someplace quiet to puke her guts out
<sophie> No sex meaning she can't pretend she's going to, and strips him, then ties him up?
<Katherine> Bag full of makeup. Fixing her face in bedroom mirror. Right next to computer.
<sophie> with his own clothes?
<Scott> Is this a humorous story or serious? Makes a big difference
<Robert> She can try to sell him something pretending to be a high powered sales type
<@SLViehl> Good thought, Sophie
<sophie> as if she's into light bondage/whatnot. Heh.
<@SLViehl> This is an extremely tense scene internally. Externally, she's the life of the party
<Lucas> If this was that goofy spy show that has come on TV lately, she would have a wireless device in her purse that would magically access and copy all the data off the computer. Good grief.
<Anne_Marble> My nephew tells me that asking "Have you learned about Jesus?" really gets people to leave you alone.
<sophie> lol anne
<@SLViehl> lol Anne
<Joel_A> oh, so true, anne
<Kaelle> lol Anne
<dar> eep, crash & burn!
<Robert> And it would work just as well if she's pitching for shares in some megacorporation
<@SLViehl> That's an idea right there -- start a religious conversation, ask him to show her the family temple.
<Joel_A> or bring up marriage and/or babies to guys. that'll send most running
<Anne_Marble> He goes into some relatively bad neighborhoods with mission work, and it works for him.
<sophie> the strip-the-dude scenario might work, and be worse if she has a past that makes that really hard for her?
<Robert> Or he's hitting on her and she's hitting on him for venture capital
<@SLViehl> She's thinking of converting to Buddhism . . .
<Kaelle> Why is it important he catch her?
<sophie> Oh! She feels the presence of the ancestor, right in that room, and she's channeling...
<@SLViehl> I'm trying for something really outrageous, Sophie -- something other than the usually sex-tease-handcuff him scene
<Joel_A> that won't necessarily work, sheila, unless the son's known to be fairly verses in the religion.
<sophie> ah, gotcha.
<Robert> Yeah. It depends how well she knows the son. It's a game of wits. What would he WANT to hear? Scam. Think Scam
<@SLViehl> The threat to the character, Kae -- inching up the suspense another notch.
<sophie> Custom's stronger than belief sometimes with ancestor worship/buddhism.
<Joel_A> bring up politics. or ask about his home life!
<Kaelle> ok
<@SLViehl> Great suggestions all -- thank you\
<Katherine> A thought re: CD-ROM burners. A lot of computers come with them now. Can she just use the hardware on hand?
<sophie> she'd have to make sure to delete the burn log.
<@SLViehl> Possibly, Katherine -- I could make it the latest thing.
<Robert> Bring up backroom politics and pretend she's setting up some deal with a politician that never heard of it! That could backfire! They might like it!
<Joel_A> gossip. many asian cultures, being group oriented, love to gossip. makes you feel like you're in
<@SLViehl> And dar, you're up now
<sophie> (she could hide)
<dar> And dar is passing on questions for the night.
(sorry & thanks)
<Robert> She makes it up on the fly and then the real politician gets caught in it and she's got another to defend - or prosecute
<@SLViehl> No problem. Scott, do you have a question you want to throw out to the group?
<dar> (anyone every seen dar get shy?)
<Kaelle> Nope. Dar, shy?
<@SLViehl> You're allowed, dar, lol
<Robert> Dar big horse barbarian woman, okay be shy
<dar> Well, it is admittedly preposterous
<Katherine> At least around people. People not horses.
<Robert> I almost went to see Dar Get Shy but I might have to wait till it comes out on video.
<@SLViehl> Scott or anyone else have a question?
<dar> you could read the book
<sophie> Sheila, when's Raven's book and stuff coming out? Is that the trilogy released this fall?
<Katherine> If we've got time, I've got another one.
<Joel_A> I do, Sheila.
<sophie> or next fall, I forget
<@SLViehl> I should know next month, Sophie. Go ahead, Katherine, Joel, you're next
<sophie> ok.
<Katherine> Any resources or suggestions for naval combat ca. 1500, Mediterranean?
<Joel_A> thanks, sheila <moves behind katherine>
<Katherine> (I thought this scene was on land until about two days ago.)
<Robert> Naval combat anywhen - find the opponent! The ocean's BIG
<@SLViehl> brb -- running over to book shelf
<sophie> look up books on the Venetian armory. The Venetians could conscript merchant ships for their navy at any time
<Katherine> Not open ocean. Near an island that both sides want.
<sophie> and the ships had to be built according to certain military standards, I think
<Katherine> Yes, they did. Also merchants were well armed anyway because of piracy.
<Robert> They did have cannon. With magic they'd have that too and it would help targeting
<sophie> So sails and positioning, cannon, saltpeter
<Nathan(gayle)> ...
<Katherine> They used galleys until pretty late, but I'm not sure how late.
<Katherine> More maneuverable than sail.
<sophie> True.
<sophie>
<Robert> There are military encyclopedias of sail. Some might be accessible online
<@SLViehl> Sorry, Katherine, my warfare books are all Civil War or pre-Byzantine
<sophie> But you'd still have to consider broadsides for the cannon, for example
<Lucas> Pre-Byzantine? Neat.
<Robert> With magic they
will take ruthless advantage of any military application for the magic.
<Katherine> Robert: No magic yet.
<Robert> Ramming was still done, I remember ramming from some even later battles
<sophie> and with galleys, ramming tactics, switching your crew out, that sort of stuff
<Katherine> Except accidentally.
<Kaelle> Hmmm. Ca. 1500. Circa Columbus?
<sophie> lol robert
<Katherine> Also had lots of close-quarters boarding, I think.
<Robert> Ramming was also a prelude to boarding if the ship was built to do it.
<Katherine> Same time frame as Columbus, but in Italian/Turkish waters.
<sophie> Wish I had a list of titles or something handy for you, Katherine.
<Katherine> I've been planning a library trip. One more item for the list.
<@SLViehl> Katherine, you might want to post a thread on this on one of the research boards, see if anyone else has some book references.
<Robert> Likewise. I read a lot years ago and I remember some details but not their sources.
<Katherine> Yeah, I'll definitely post. Just haven't gotten to it yet.
<sophie> *somebody's* gonna know. : )
<Lucas> Any submarines? There were submarines used for military purposes as early as the American civil war. That is probably too modern, but you could always downgrade them to make them appropriate. Still, I don't know if that would be too historically off for you.
<Robert> Long before submarines individual divers would dive and scuttle.
<sophie> Well, the Venetians would look to prevent blockades and to preserve their shipping routes. It's a start...
<Katherine> No submarines. Possibly individual swimmers in shallow coastal waters, though, for sabotage.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments/suggestions for Katherine?
<Lucas> Some ships were probably reinforced for (as someone suggested) ramming.
<Jenny> I'd better go--g'night/whatever, everyone.
<Anne_Marble> Night Jenny
<sophie> night Jenny
<Robert> G'night, Jenny! Happy writing!
<@SLViehl> night Jenny
<Kaelle> Night!
<dar> night jenny
<Joel_A> night, jenny
<Jinx> Night, Jenny
<Yvonne> ditto
<Lucas> Fire - If you shoot flaming things, you only have to hit a ship once then it burns to bits or, at any rate, the fire keeps the crew occupied.
<Robert> Flammable sticky burning stuff and fire bolts and arrows into the sails
<sophie> pitch/tar, yeah
<Joel_A> legendary greek fire. or primitive napalm
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all -- Joel, you're up
<Joel_A> thanks, sheila. here's my question:
<Lucas> Remember grape shot - Anti-personell cannon ammo.
<Joel_A> (for my WIP)if the source of magic was analogous to water, what impact would condensing it to specific parts of planet have on the animals (e.g., dragons, etc.) .and animals (e.g. herbs with truly magically abilities) that depended on it? what about the living things in the now intensified magical areas?
<sophie> would it condense so much no one could use it, it was so dense?
<Robert> Those that thrive in a magic rich environment will migrate towards, those not will migrate away
<sophie> like ice, sort of
<@SLViehl> You'd have some mutant animals, I think
<sophie> super 'shrooms
<Robert> Hybrids too, like a gryphon getting at a lioness when she's in heat
<Lucas> The high magic concentrations of some areas could either enhance magic powers or drown the life there that uses magic.
<Yvonne> like fire adapted plants, you'd have magic adapted plants
<@SLViehl> Species that learn how to adapt and use their environment to survive
<@SLViehl> rabbits that dematerialize instead of run
<@SLViehl> that sort of thing
<Lucas> Some species would use the new concentrations and flourish, some would fail.
<Katherine> And die in other environments. Take a magically adapted tree and plant it somewhere normal, and it dies.
<Robert> Over a long time you would have 'magic fixing plants" like nitrogen fixers, that would either increase or neutralize the concentration
<@SLViehl> good point, Katherine
<Anne_Marble> Walking trees. (I saw that in a Saturday Night Live skit once.)
<sophie> Ents! <g>
<Lucas> What about in the now magically denueded areas? Magic things there might start to fail, then the lesser magically adapted things would take over.
<sophie> ahem. Katherine's got a good reverse consequence going.
<Katherine> Just read T. Sturgeon story, "Golden Helix" which had highly radiation-adapted creatures.
<Robert> You would also get non sentient plants picking up some magical effect as a defense, the way some plants will use acid or toxic chemistry as defense
<Lucas> Hmm, that's what Katherine said...
<Robert> You'd get plants that turned animals that tried to eat them to stone or something.
<Robert> Because the one that mutated to do that would
thrive uneaten
<sophie> How about things dying faster in the high-magic areas? Like rainforests, where growth is lush, dense, and fast dead?
<sophie> accelerated everything.
<@SLViehl> different environment, different rules
<Robert> Tiny patch ecosystems like rainforest where any stable balance occurred - but needed all its elements including that bromeliad's magical ants that spit fire
<Lucas> Some things store the chemicals made by things in their bodies, even though they can't generate said chemicals themselves. Perhaps some things that preyed on magic animals, but didn't really need magic for their own biological processes, would be affected.
<Robert> Like Lucas said - draw from nature and then make it stranger
<Lucas> They could go from high magic to low magic areas, and still be super magically protected if they could metabolize the magic from their prey.
<sophie> Nice!
<Robert> Something in the zone might have a Lamarckian evolutionary rate as its adaptation, it transforms to fit immediate environment and so is a hardy thing that's hard to stamp out or even recognize!
<Anne_Marble> Watch David Attenborough series
<Katherine> You might have "veins" of magic like underground springs or mineral veins, with microclimates living alongside.
<Kaelle> I developed something like that I called Mistymere - it's a swamplike area of high and low magics.
<Yvonne> can of worms Joel
<Robert> I have Juvonanka Swamp, stable by way of trees that are sentient when they feel like it
<Joel_A> and LOTS of potential, Yvonne. Love it
<@SLViehl> remember your ecosystems, too, Joel -- you'll need to develop food chains, or perhaps magic chains
<sophie> Evolve-a-world
<Lucas> Fringe animals - Some of the original average magic adapted animals might still live essentially unaltered in the fringe areas between high and low magic zones.
<Joel_A> still too early for that, sheila, since the effect has only been over the last couple hundred years
<Robert> Some animals change form radically between life stages. You might have some that have low-magic stages and high-magic stages in their life cycle, that can survive fluctuating magic
<Katherine> Magic amphibians. Born in magic environments, adult needs normal environment. Or vice versa.
<sophie> Who's dominant?
<Joel_A> mostly mass extinctions
<Joel_A> i don't understand your question, sophie
<@SLViehl> I bet the bugs would survive, though. lol
<sophie> Who's at the top of the food/magic chain and what do they do with it, I guess
<Kaelle> Magic malaria
<sophie> roaches, definitely.
<Robert> They sure would, Sheila! The first mage talented fruit fly would beget - monstrosities!
<dar> ditto, sophie
<Joel_A> they probably wouldn't notice anything, sheila. but magically bugs....hmmmm
<sophie> supermagic roaches. ::shudder::
<dar> (think madagascar)
<Joel_A> ah! thanks, sophie. humanity is currently on top
<sophie> killer bees, fighting ants, whoa, humans are toast.
<Yvonne> anything with a rapid reproductive cycle would mutate faster
<Robert> But a simple little animal's idea of a spell is going to be different from a human's simpler.
<sophie> oh, okay. Heh.
<Lucas> Bugs. Sure, mosquitoes with the power to divine the movements of warm bodies before they happen. They actually wait for their prey ahead of time.
<@SLViehl> All right, folks, time -- any last suggestions, comments?
<Joel_A> you folks are BRUTAL
<Robert> Get weird with it and read nature books, lots!
<dar> it makes us happy
<Yvonne> we aim to please
<Joel_A> thanks, y'all! my setting just got nastier...er.. .more interesting
<Robert> Think of marsupials when placentals came in - the magical types would have an advantage
<Joel_A> LOL, dar
<Kaelle> <grin>
<Joel_A> thanks, yvonne
<sophie> Or birds in Hawaii, after mainland snakes came
<@SLViehl> And thanks to everyone for another terrific Friday night!
<Joel_A> thanks, everyone
<Lucas> Colonial creatures would naturally cast co-operative spells. Hundreds of bugs working together could be dangerous, whereas one ant or bee might be less trouble.
<Joel_A> yeah, great job!
<Kaelle> Oh wow, over already?
<sophie> this was fun, guys!
<Joel_A> who's recording all this?
<Robert> It only took a couple hundred years for Galapagos finches in every niche too, remember that
<Joel_A> you're nasty, lucas
<Robert> Who else, I am! <G>
<Joel_A> understood, robert. i'll check the books
<Anne_Marble> PUff puff puff <this is exhausting>
<@SLViehl> Robert, our resident scribe, and hopefully me too
<Joel_A> thanks, robert, sheila
<Katherine> Transcript will magically appear on board?
<sophie> Good luck with your writing, everyone, and night!
<@SLViehl> Yes, ma'am
<Robert> Purr! Thanks for a great brainstorm! Transcript headed for Sheila
<Joel_A> night, sophie
<Kaelle> Same to you, Sophie
<Katherine> Many thanks for the suggestions, everyone.
<Anne_Marble> Ari pastes them up, Katherine
<Lucas> Wow. We ran a little late tonight, but it was fun.
<@SLViehl> I'm going to cut and paste now (fingers crossed) Thanks again for a great session
<Kaelle> You're welcome.
<@SLViehl> see you at Holly'
<@SLViehl> s
<@SLViehl>