Writer's Think Tank #8 -- 03/22/02

<Kaelle> Hi, JIm
<@JimMills> Hi Kaelle !! :}
<@JimMills> Hi Sheila!!
<Kaelle> Hi Sheila
<@JimMills> :}
<@SLViehl> Hey there, Kae & Jim
<@SLViehl> How's everyone tonight?
<@JimMills> Hi Yvonne! :}
<@SLViehl> Welcome Yvonne
<Yvonne> hi all
<@JimMills> I'm ok... you? I did about 1500 words today... new scenes. :}
<Kaelle> Great - except for the snow storm going on outside. Sheesh. I'm ready for Spring already. Hi Yvonne.
<@SLViehl> Yay Jim!
<Yvonne> coo, I did about 600 words, now I have to work out the next scene
<Yvonne> coo = cool
<@SLViehl> Come to Florida. No Snow. Much beach.
<@SLViehl> lol
<Kaelle> You don't know how much I'd love to, Sheila
<Kaelle> Hi Nathan!
<Nathan> Hello all
<@SLViehl> We need to start like a writer's colony or something. Hi Nathan
<Kaelle> I didn't get to go to Florida this year for my vacation. I have relatives north of Orlando, and I like to visit St Pete
<@JimMills> Sheila: think we can get a government grant or something? Maybe a Hemingway retreat in Key West?
<@SLViehl> Pretty up there. Have you ever been to the Dali museum, Kae?
<Kaelle> No I haven't, Sheila
<@SLViehl> They have a Hemingway festival every year, Jim, but everybody just drinks.
<Kaelle> lol
<Nathan> Hello Robert
<Kaelle> Hi Robert!
<@SLViehl> Hey Robert
<Robert> Hi everyone! Oooh I love the idea of Writers Colony somewhere with good climate, cheap rents and lovely woods!
<Yvonne> and word wars with multi-colored markers
<Robert> Oh definitely!
<@JimMills> How about multi-colored computers? I have a blue one.
<@SLViehl> Endless library and computer rooms . . .
<Kaelle> (drooling)
<Robert> Oooh yes!
<@JimMills> Ever been to the Andre Norton Library/Resource Center?
<@SLViehl> Research assistants . . .
<Kaelle> No, where's that? Oh is that the one in Tenn?
<@SLViehl> Hi Crista
<Kaelle> Hey Crista!
<Crista> Hey. Ugh. I'm watching this horrible movie.
<Nathan> Hi Crista
<Yvonne> what's the movie?
<Nathan> What horrible movie?
<@SLViehl> City of Angels? The Wedding Planner?
<Yvonne> lol
<Crista> It's a movie-of-the-week type thing with Sally Fild and keifer Sutherland.
<Nathan> If it's so horrible, then why are you watching it?
<Kaelle> Hey, I liked The Wedding Planner
<@SLViehl> Eye for an Eye
<@JimMills> http://www.andre-norton.org -- High Hallack Library -- "a peaceful place for research and-reference study."
<Crista> Because I can't stop myself. (g)
<@JimMills> High Hallack is located in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, approximately one-half hour's drive from Nashville.
<Kaelle> Jim, are you saying it's online?
<@SLViehl> I haven't actually seen the Wedding planner, but my son holds his nose when I say Jennifer Lopez
<Kaelle> Oh, never mind, Jim\
<Crista> That's it. I'm so angry at this movie and I want to turn it off, butI can't stop watching.
<Yvonne> your son must not be old enough Sheila
<@SLViehl> He's 21, and very picky about girls.
<Crista> It's not bad, Sheila. Jennifer Lopez is alright in it.
<Nathan> Hello splogemaroon
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Hello, hello, hello...
<@SLViehl> I like JLo myself
<@SLViehl> Hi Catherine
<Yvonne> hi Catherine
<Kaelle> Hi Catherine
<Crista> Hi, Catherine.
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Thought I come and see where it was at
<@JimMills> I think Cato ate my last post. It's in Tennessee... but they have an online site, too.
<@SLViehl> Now, Catherine, what does slodgemaroon mean? I'm dying to know -- is that like from Roger Rabbit?
<@SLViehl> slodge=splodge
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> It's just nonsense, actually - I wirte it in because its my handle in chat
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> trying ot find a yahoo ID I knew noone had taken
<@SLViehl> I always think of Roger Rabbit for some reason. And you as Jessica Rabbit (g)
<Nathan> Hello deathsarrow
<@SLViehl> Welcome deathsarrow. Careful where you point yourself.
<@SLViehl> lol
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> LOL
<Kaelle> lol
<Yvonne> hi DA, see you found us
<Robert> Hey, ya made it deathsarrow! Cool!
<deathsarrow> yeah
<@SLViehl> Last call for beverages, bathroom breaks etc. before we get started
<deathsarrow> ...I'm good over here
*@JimMills* Yw. :}
<Anon_56> got the 2-liter of caffeine next to me...
<Nathan> Hello Anon_56
<@SLViehl> Welcome JamiJo
<Nathan> Hello JamiJo
<JamiJo> (sorry... newbie here...)
<@SLViehl> We love newbies, don't we, group?
<Nathan> YEAH!!
<Kaelle> Yes, we do
<@JimMills> YES!!
<Kaelle> roasted, with marshmallows....
<Yvonne> mmm, newbies, especially with steak sauce
<Kaelle> lol
<JamiJo> hee hee hee.. i'm much better with garlic, herbs, etc
<Robert> Ari does not improve radio reception when he sits with his butt on top of the speaker, he muffles it.
<@SLViehl> Don' forget fresh basil
<Kaelle> lol Ari
<@SLViehl> Okay, I'm going to try something different tonight
<Nathan> Garlic?...where??
<@SLViehl> Everyone's name is going up on the roster
<Kaelle> Robert, has Ari tried to improve your tv reception?
<@SLViehl> If we get to you and you don't want to ask a question, just say "Pass"
<Kaelle> ok
<@JimMills> uh oh... does that mean you're putting us to work, Sheila?
<Robert> I get no TV reception but he thinks my monitor's improved by his tail central to it.
<JamiJo> put me last please!
<Kaelle> I'm sure he decorated beautifully, Robert
<@SLViehl> Nathan is your Mom with you tonight?
<Nathan> No, she's in another room
<Robert> He does. He's beautiful. Death, the roster goes on the Groupboard, sheila lists everyone by name and when it's your turn, you ask a question.
<@SLViehl> Okay -- let me know if she wants to join in
<deathsarrow> ..alright
<Robert> Sheila, I'd rather go somewhere around the middle as I don't have one prepared but will ahve one by the time it's my turn.
<@SLViehl> Okay, great -- now, don't panic, anyone. You can always pass when we get to you, or I can put you down at the bottom of the list
<CiceroCat> hi all
<Kaelle> hi CC
<@SLViehl> Welcome CiceroCat
<CiceroCat> first time in one of these chats.
<Jehane> Hello everyone
<@SLViehl> Hey Jehane!
<Robert> Please put me a bit lower on it than usual then, Sheila, since I haven't phrased it.
<Yvonne> hi Jehane
<Nathan> Hello CiceroCat
<Kaelle> hi Jehane
<Nathan> Hello Jehane
<@SLViehl> I'm going to do a brief run-down on how the think tank works, and then we'll get started
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> hi jehane
<CiceroCat> hi Jehane
<@SLViehl> Welcome to everyone -- I'm S.L. (Sheila) Viehl, your moderator, and this is the Weekly Writer's Think Tank
<Jehane> lotsa people here tonight
<CiceroCat> I also wouldn't mind being put lower on the list... I wanted to see how this works and see other's questions and discuss... don't have many questions of my own
<@SLViehl> What we do is come up with solutions to your writing-related problems, with group discussion
<@SLViehl> Welcome athenesc
<athenesc> Hi all
<CiceroCat> hi athenesc
<Nathan> Hello athenesc
<@SLViehl> Every person will have a chance to put a question before the group, in order of the names above on the class board
<@SLViehl> If you don't have a question and just want to sit in, that's fine. Just say "Pass" when I get to you
<CiceroCat> ok
<@SLViehl> The key is to offer suggestions, comments and possible solutions for each other -- accent on the positive.
<@SLViehl> No flaming, no ridicule, no being nasty or I kick you out of the room.
<@SLViehl> Other than that, anything goes and who just wiped out my roster???
<deathsarrow> ?
<CiceroCat> glitch?
<Robert> Cato did it?
<@SLViehl> Don't hit clear, it wipes out the roster
<deathsarrow> alright
<deathsarrow> thanks for the advice
<@JimMills> Or Load or Save or Set background... they wipe it too... in fact, don't touch the group board at all, please. Leave that to Sheila.
<athenesc> ok
<CiceroCat> k
<CiceroCat> hi Anons
<deathsarrow> wow...ok
<Anon_84> got kicked
<Nathan> Hello emily
<CiceroCat> there my name's back
<Robert> I've put on my linen kilt, my wig and got out my reed pens... scribing again!
<@JimMills> Anon 84 is Cicero Cat, Sheila...
<@SLViehl> All right, I'll call for your questions by name -- when I call "Time" that's when we make our last suggestions and move on to the next question. Kaelle, you're up, Jim, you're next
<Kaelle> I don't have a question prepared, but let me see if I can get one off the top of my head. Just a sec.
<Robert> <salaams to Kaelle thank you thank you>
<@SLViehl> Anon_81, what's your name?
<CiceroCat> CiceroCat -- my connection kickedme out sorry
<@SLViehl> (unless it's a secret)
<Kaelle> Ok, I've never written more than 1500 words in one day, I joined the 30,000 words Dare.
<Kaelle> Am I crazy?
<Yvonne> yes
<@SLViehl> Yes. Next question
<Kaelle> lol
<Yvonne> welcome to the club
<@SLViehl> lol
<CiceroCat> o sorry I was number 84
<@JimMills> Pass
<JamiJo> nah, I did it too.
<CiceroCat> not 81
<Yvonne> 81 is probably a duplicate of CC
<Robert> You are crazy! Kaelle, we are all crazy
<@SLViehl> Just kidding, Kae -- what are you worried about? Making the word count?
<Kaelle> I'm in good company. Yes the word count, sorta.
<Nathan> not necesscerally(sp?) I can't really write more than 2000 words in a day
<Nathan> actually I've never tried
<CiceroCat> Is it? lol sorry, trouble follows me on computers...
<@SLViehl> Are you writing every day, more or less?
<CiceroCat> do you have any plot lines our outlines?
<CiceroCat> those will help you keep on track, keep your muse knowing where to head
<Kaelle> Not quite every day. Real Life. NOt an excuse, OK yes sorta an excuse.
<Anon_93> can someone repeat the question? I just came in.
<Kaelle> I have worldbuilding notes and some outline notes and a couple scenes.
<deathsarrow> real life...
<@SLViehl> Good point CC.
<CiceroCat> i've never tried to write that much before myself, but i'm thinking of joining too. we'll be in the same boat Kaelle
<Kaelle> Good CC, lol
<@SLViehl> Anon-93, Kaelle has just joined the 30,000 word count Dare, and she's worried about making that quota
<SSwain> ahhhh. ok. thanks.
<CiceroCat> also, it doesn't hae to just be one work you are working on, it could be anything you are writing on or starting
<@SLViehl> I think the key is NOT to worry about the count
<Emily> I'm preparing by doing a very detailed outline--which reminds me, I have to trash it and redo it again.
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> KNowing what to do in adavance really helps...you don't have to have an outline on paper, but one in your head helps
<Robert> Not worrying about it. Get very wrapped up in what you're writing and just Let Yourself Write Crap.
<Kaelle> True, I thought I would follow Kay House's self advice.
<JamiJo> I'm using it as an excuse to take a mini vacation from work, homework and my fiance... and the rest of the internet. I won't have anything to distract me, and no excuses not to write
<SSwain> yeah. don't keep checking the count every half hour. just keep writing. check the count at the end of the day, maybe. no more often than that.
<Emily> Caffeine and sugar, and no internet until I make 7,000 words each day.
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Often in lettin g yourself write crap, you find you don't...
<Yvonne> good plan emily
<@SLViehl> I only check wordcount once a day, right before I shut off the computer. Doesn't feel like an axe hanging over my head that way
<Yvonne> ( note to self, must get snacks)
<Emily> The library won't be open, which makes things easier for me.
<CiceroCat> we do have 5 days right? so that equals 6,000 a day if you go that route?
<Robert> I check and brag to myself and post at chapter ends. This gets and keeps me going!
<@SLViehl> Another way to stretch your wordcount is to stop backtracking. Write straight through, and don't stop
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Really being inside your characters head - not htinking about what they would say next...just knowing
<Kaelle> I guess that I have to let myself write whatever without that internal editor yelling at me.
<CiceroCat> you could cut it up like that, Kaelle
<@SLViehl> Send the internal editor on an extended vacation, Kae.
<Robert> Right. That's the main thing. Turn OFF all quality control. Promise your Inner Editor that you WILL clean up afterward.
<CiceroCat> i have to learn that too, Kaelle
<CiceroCat> good idea robert
<Robert> That internal promise is what lets you get down something worth editing.
<@SLViehl> Nice suggestion, Robert
<deathsarrow> something to work at
<@SLViehl> And Robert knows, his internal editor is a monster
<CiceroCat>
<Kaelle> OK, Thanks for the support everyone. I love this place.
<CiceroCat>
<Robert> That and put LOTS of time in on the first day - if I do a big splat chunk on the first day of a marathon I get so ahead I'm all cheery about it and braggin not scared.
<SSwain> all I really worry about the first time thru is making it legible. ie, can i understand what i meant to say when i go to rewrite?
<moonpowered> sorry! i'm completely new to this. could someone explain the 30,000 word challenge?
<@SLViehl> SSwain, you'll get a turn to ask the group a question, hang on
<CiceroCat> lol, i do that too SS
<SSwain> oh, sorry. that was a rhetorical question, SL. it wasn't a real question. heh.
<Kaelle> All good advice. (g)
<Robert> 10,000 isn't much harder than 5,000 if you are SO distracted by wanting to know what happens next that you don't put it down.
<Kaelle> Oh Robert, only you. Thanks
<@SLViehl> Moonpowered, the dare is posted on one of the community boards. I believe the explanation is posted with it -- Robert, is it on the Exercise board?
<CiceroCat> on my days off from school i can hog the computer for hours on end
<Robert> And also on Main Discussion in its thread reachable by link from Home or from the top.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last suggestions for Kaelle?
<moonpowered> thanks!
<CiceroCat> Remember it's supposed to be fun and work
<CiceroCat> Try not to stress it
<Robert> Cheer other posters when you do your update posts and I'll make a point of cheering you on. The cheering section mutual cheering triples some people's counts.
<@SLViehl> Write every day if you can, Kae, and don't worry about the count. Have fun with it.
<Kaelle> Ok. Fun. I can do that. Thanks a million, guys.
<Anon_3> Pass on me, please, Sheila. Thanks.
<@SLViehl> Jim, do you want to pass?
<@Jim> Yes... Anon3 was me... sorry.
<@SLViehl> Whoops, Jim and I just crossed posts
<@SLViehl> Yvonne, you're up -- gotta question for us?
<Yvonne> yep, how do you kidnap a dragon, a little hatchling small enough to fit into a backpack with room to spare, from watchful people?
<Kaelle> create a distraction
<athenesc> Disguise it
<Yvonne> disguise what?
<athenesc> the dragon
<@SLViehl> Switch the hatchling with something else. A stuffed hatchling.
<Nathan> Bribe them (the people)
<JamiJo> maybe magic the watchful people... they see what they WERE seeing a few minutes ago until they try to interact with the hatchling...
<@SLViehl> Distraction is good
<Kaelle> Oh,yes, illusion
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> get the watchful people very very drunk.
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> What sor to f watchful people are they?
<CiceroCat> if th dragon is kinda like a pet, maybe lure it near you with food or something
<Robert> That and throw some explosives in their campfire and set fire their tents. While they're putting that out grab the baby
<@SLViehl> Make the watchers think another hatchling is getting kidnapped -- draw them away from the real target
<JamiJo> ... or get the baby to hide itself - make it want to go with the kidnappers
<CiceroCat> and make sure you don't seem supicious to the watchers, gain their trust
<Kaelle> good one JamiJo
<@SLViehl> Fake the hatchling's death somehow
<Robert> The hatchling should be no harder to control than a baby alligator, hold its mouth shut while grabbing it.
<SSwain> intermediate step: where is the hatchling - cave, building, tent, what...
<CiceroCat> that's a good one Sheila
<@SLViehl> Nice, JamiJo
<deathsarrow> use a different entrance than the one expected of you by the watchers
<athenesc> Does the dragon have any magic of its own?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> If you have magic, you might cast an enchantment. Or shrink the dragon down and preserve it in amber.
<@SLViehl> Oh, shrink it down, I like that
<CiceroCat> i like that one, make it as small as a fly -- who watches a fly
<@Jim> Oh, no, Frederick... the SPCD will get you on that one.
<Robert> Who's kidnappng? What are their resources? I could do it by lying and misdirecting and setting ordinary fires, but if you have magic they'll be able to use that too.
<@SLViehl> Tell us more about the dragon and the watchers, Yvonne
<Fredrick Obermeyer> The SPCD, Jim?
<CiceroCat> is that like ASPCA?
<Yvonne> the dragon is recently bonded to my MC, they'll be traveling in a van and will be stopping at gas stations and motels
<@Jim> Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Dragons.
<@SLViehl> lol Jim
<Yvonne> ooo, can I use that Jim?
<CiceroCat> so this is a a modern day setting?
<Yvonne> yep CC
<CiceroCat> lol jim
<@SLViehl> Make the hatchling look like a dog. A poodle.
<CiceroCat> what can the MC do?
<@Jim> I thought I might use it in a short story, Y... (g)
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Jim
<Robert> Then a big logistic problem is whether the bondmate of the dragon will know it's in panic
<Yvonne> yes, she'll know its in a panic, she might be too sick to do anything about at the time though
<CiceroCat> if the dragon wants to go with her, cause they are bonded, she/he/it'll probably try to help right?
<@SLViehl> I'd be worried about Mom dragon . . .
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Might there be holograms or a holodragon you could use as a cover
<Yvonne> yes
<Yvonne> Fred>no
<CiceroCat> good idea, make a doppleganger of it
<JamiJo> is your MC arriving right before this happens?
<Jehane> say you're from the council...or from the SPCD and have to get the dragon registered
<athenesc> What about the watchers?
<Robert> Getting bondmate sick is GOOD idea.
<JamiJo> Maybe a well timed minor car crash with the van can be the distraction... ino the guard's vehicle
<CiceroCat> make the watcher sick--slip something in their food
<Kaelle> Do watchers have magic or mundane weapons?
<CiceroCat> so they run to bathroom
<Yvonne> Kaelle>both
<@SLViehl> Ah, the ex-lax attack strategy. Classic
<Kaelle> hmm. tough
<CiceroCat>
<Robert> That's a good one. But fire is always also inspirational.
<athenesc> What kind of magic & mundane weapons?
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Yvonne?
<Robert> So is local electrical failure.
<Robert> Cut communications. Smash or steal cell phones. Bollix their magic. And then move very fast.
<JamiJo> yvonne that sounds like it's going to be fun to write!
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Perhaps you could lure the dragon away with meat or Spam.
<Nathan> Bribe the people with something that they need
<SSwain> decide how long the watchers will be incapacitated by whatever you do before they can give chase...
<@SLViehl> I'd use the bait and switch, Yvonne. Distract your watchers, replace the hatchling with a visual substitute, and high tail it out of there
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Maybe they need span
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I mean spam
<Yvonne> of course, Spam is always highly valued on the quest
<Anne_Marble> I have plent of that...
<@SLViehl> Thanks to everyone, I am never letting you guys near my pets. Nathan, you're up, Robert, you're next.
<CiceroCat> lol yvonne
<Kaelle> lol
<Nathan> In my new story, the MC is your every day average, preteen (possibly teen), who finds out that he is the one person that can save another world (isn't that always the case?).
<Nathan> However, he does not know that this world exists, not to mention the fact that he is the only person that can save this peaceful world from civil war.
<Nathan> Now to get this preteen (possibly teen) to find out about this other world, someone he'll believe needs to tell him.
<Nathan> I was thinking maybe have it (the person who tells the boy about the other world) be his father, who disappeared a few years before, just after the boy's mother divorced him (the father). Would this be a good idea?
<Kaelle> Yes, but what's his connection to the other world? the father, I mean
<CiceroCat> i think it would be. Did he go and visit the world in questin?
<SSwain> if the boy does trust the father, yeah.
<deathsarrow> how did the father find out?
<@Jim> Sure. Depends on how you develop it and tell the story.
<@SLViehl> Does the father now exist in the other world, Nathan?
<Anne_Marble> Is he from that world? (The father)
<Robert> Like father like son, maybe dad went when he was that young?
<Jehane> Won't he have a lot of resentment towards his father for disappearing like that?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Is the father a refuge from the other world
<@SLViehl> Hang on for a minute, everyone, give Nathan a chance to catch up.
<Nathan> "Yes, but what's his connection to the other world? the father, I mean" at this time that is unknown
<Nathan> I think
<SSwain> one thing: if his father reappears all of a sudden, won't the kid be more concerned with where his father has been than with this "other world"? something to think about.
<Robert> It can be unknown to readers but you should know. (G)
<@SLViehl> Maybe the other world could be an explanation for his father's disappearance
<deathsarrow> that would work nicely S.L
<@SLViehl> It would be good to decide this, Nathan, before you get into the explanation part
<deathsarrow> have him end up vanishing to this place and tehn reappearing to tell the son
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could the father be the embodiment of the other world, in essence a walking world, but not know it?
<deathsarrow> *then
<Nathan> I was thinking maybe when the father was wandering the streets a few years before, he found a portal to this other world, and, as they say, curiosity never killed the cat
<@SLViehl> Maybe he's be unable to come back until now.
<CiceroCat> if the son needs evidence, have him bring something otherworldly back
<Robert> That's cool, Nathan
<SSwain> will the father tell him in person or thru dream or something similar? maybe thru magic?
<@SLViehl> Or have the otherworld leave its mark on his father in some way
<Robert> I should type "Readers do not need to know" and paste it on my monitor.
<CiceroCat> he could send a messanger through the portal with a message ... just an idea
<Robert> As a variation on Show Not Tell - infordumps are for MEe, not readers
<CiceroCat> lol robert
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could the father show his son the other world telepathically?
<Nathan> In person...there just happens to be a portal in the living room of the boy in question
<Robert> Dad can leave a diary the kid first thinks is fiction.
<deathsarrow> well could the father take the boy to this new world as evidnce then?
<JamiJo> do the people of the other world know this kid is necessary for their survival?
<CiceroCat> brb, i need to take some aspirin--headache
<@SLViehl> My question as a reader would be, why didn't Dad come back before now? Are there time differences between the two worlds?
<Nathan> Yes
<Jehane> What does the boy think of Dad disappearing and reappearing just like that?
<Nathan> no(sheila's Q)
<SSwain> and if the portal is in the living room, why has there been no indication of such before then?
<deathsarrow> why was the dad there then?
<deathsarrow> what makes him important to this world?
<@SLViehl> or maybe Dad opens the portal to his son
<Nathan> The boy doesn't really remember when the father dissapeared...he was to young
<Robert> Did Dad forget his portal key on the wrong side of it and need son to bring it to him?
<Anne_Marble> In old legends,people would visit the world of the elves for a few months, and when they came back, everyone would be decades older.
<JamiJo> could they use his father's face / voice to talk to him as someone he knows or at least recognizes? as opposed to making contact as an alien race....
<Jehane> How does he know it's really his Dad, and not some weird stranger?
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Nathan?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What really differentiates this other world from our world?
<CiceroCat> bk
<Nathan> Well it isn't really an alien race...it's kinda like the alternate universe in star trek, just peaceful
<Robert> Work out all this stuff but don't show it till the most dramatic point! If son doesn't believe or trust dad at first, that's Conflict and a good thing!~
<SSwain> and what is it about the boy that will save the other world.
<@SLViehl> I would decide why Dad left, what kept him away, and then reunite him with the son, Nathan. Even if you don't tell the reader now, you need to know this in order to build the story.
<Nathan> and the continents are shaped different
<CiceroCat> work out history of other world
<CiceroCat> even if briefly
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Was the father captured or something - held prisoner...
<CiceroCat> their beliefs
<Nathan> he has some sort of special quality
<Nathan> like alladin
<SSwain> decide what that quality is.
<@SLViehl> All right, thanks to all for the great ideas -- Robert, you're up, Crista, you're next
<Nathan> thanks all
<Robert> Aladdin lucked and was clever and observant, a good special quality. Lay clues around and let your char. pick them up and figure them out.
<Robert> I'm building a character intro next chapter. 16 yr old Alison is mageborn, wears glasses, looks like our allikitten and is native to the world of "Quest" my current WIP
<Robert> Now she's also the only human female joining the party and I'm considering making her a love interest for 30 yr old ex imprisoned King Rellin, king by his family having all potted eadh ohter off.
<Robert> So I am looking for 'well princesses don't usually stomp around alone in enchanted evil woods for no good reason' and don't like Alison being a princess, want her more a Cinderella
<Robert> but need to come up with some reasons why I think Rellin would think a female mage of unknown ancestry a better shot for Queen than your typical politically expedient princess?
<CiceroCat> well, are mages valued in this society?
<Robert> And work up some distant tenuous justification for a commoner bride that will fit flavor of the world
<CiceroCat> that could be a reason
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Raw power, magic that normals don't have
<@SLViehl> What qualities does Alison possess that would make her an effective ruler, Robert?
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Female mages with special powers
<Kaelle> How strong a mage is she?
<Yvonne> are there any other princesses left?
<Jehane> inbreeding has given all the other princesses serious shortcomings, like genetic disorders, etc
<SSwain> maybe she has some sort of magic tied to the land that would be useful for a ruler?
<Robert> Shes intelligent! And has some common sense and plenty of mage talent and is probably educated.
<@Jim> Robert: a Seer or Oracle says so? She draws the sword from the stone or some equivalent?
<@SLViehl> Common sense makes a better ruler than immaculate bloodlines, practically speaking
<CiceroCat> maybe have her prover herself to hte nation, save someone--this will endear her definitely
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What are her flaws?
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> O r maybe female mages pass on special powers to their offspring...
<Robert> Thank you! Yes, the land's magic would be screaming We Want Mage Queen!
<Anne_Marble> Maybe the nobility is thinning out, getting inbred. Some socieities make allowances for outbreeding
<@SLViehl> Think Arthur and the Sword in the Stone, Robert -- sometimes, the throne picks you
<Robert> That's part of why she's good for the royal line too - outbreeding.
<CiceroCat> maybe the King wants to marry for love, instead of match?
<Robert> Yes! I can get away with that "Alison knows she has a destiny and has no idea what it is but it sure gives her magic"
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if the world had strict breeding practices and women could only mate when the moon is full?
<JamiJo> he doesn't want to play politics in choosing his bride...
<JamiJo> this way he doesn't have to worry about making this house happy at the expense of another
<Robert> And it explains why she's out in the woods that night since that magic they tripped on is Women's Maagic that no male characters can see at all without absolute disaster - but the girl's out in it.
<JamiJo> they're all gonna get upset over it
<Anne_Marble> I think early New Orleans society tried to instill a system whereby people were encouraged to marry commoners, because they were getting so inbred.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> But what if mages had the power to mate outside of moon cycles?
<CiceroCat> that's neat anne
<Jehane> by choosing someone politically neutral he can maintain a balance of power
<Fredrick Obermeyer> She could produce a heir far faster than a regular princess
<Robert> There are ancient Women's Magic things going on and my male char. has to go around literally blind lest he see anything he shouldn't
<@SLViehl> She would be loyal to him, not to her aristocratic family
<CiceroCat> interesting robert
<Robert> Yep. And they adventured together, that's proven loyalty by the time it gets to that point.
<SSwain> loyalty...yes, that would be important if the king wasn't sure which house to trust...
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Yes but if he's marrying her because she's a commoner, why this commoner?
<Robert> He loved his family and they all killed each other.
<Robert> He has mage talent and no one else in his family did.
<CiceroCat> maybe the nation won't be happy, but over her reign the start to love her
<CiceroCat> be angsty that way
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if the mage was in love with the princess but could only have the prince?
<@SLViehl> I think that's a great reason not to marry into the family
<deathsarrow> she might have a better knowledge of the common people
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Robert?
<deathsarrow> 's thoughts and opinions
<athenesc> She could also be a good adviser with a different point of view.
<Robert> Obstacles are fine. Yes. Her not being noble will give her MUCH more egalitarian attitudes. And she's wise.
<CiceroCat> yeah, maybe the nation is divided between her and the other, and it's like they are trying to push one on the king
<Robert> Age gap not a problem, traditional medieval
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could be wise, but naive
<@SLViehl> I would use the King's experiences with her as a foundation for his choice. Add in a bit of legend or magic that indicates she's the right one.
<Robert> Right - I want his heart and the magic runnign parallel and social obstacles to be something they overcome.
<@SLViehl> Okay, thanks to all for some great ideas -- Crista, you're up, Catherine, you're next
<Robert> Thank you everyone for suggesting I just use the magic! It so works! Alli gets her handsome prince. (G)
<CiceroCat> lol
<@SLViehl> And it looks like Crista's no longer with us, so Catherine, you're up
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> I'll pass, for the moment...
<@SLViehl> deathsarrow, it's your turn. Got a question for the group?
<deathsarrow> I think that I will just watch for the time being
<deathsarrow> thanks anyway though
<@SLViehl> Then it's my turn
<@SLViehl> Okay, what's the worst insult you ever heard (clean language, please) toward the Irish?
<Anne_Marble> Your questions are always so hard.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Alcoholics
<Fredrick Obermeyer> That's a cliche
<Kaelle> "They breed like flies"
<@Jim> "You're Scottish, aren't you?"
<CiceroCat> hmmm, some people get angry about being called hot-tempered, especially red headed irish
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Who me?
<Kaelle> lol JIm
<deathsarrow> (g)
<Robert> They're drunk and they think with their fists and they'll beat their wives
<moonpowered> short tempers and long memories
<CiceroCat> lol jim
<Anne_Marble> "No Irish and dogs allowed"
<deathsarrow> short tempers and long memories spread across the sea
<Fredrick Obermeyer> No Irish Need Apply
<deathsarrow> the sctos had em too
<deathsarrow> *scots
<Robert> Fight over anything
<Anne_Marble> Have broods of kids
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> "Papists"
<CiceroCat> was that a real one anne? no dogs?
<JamiJo> ... i think i remember something to do with potatoes..
<CiceroCat> and that was written with the irish?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Some people called Irish the white n-word
<@SLViehl> I've heard that one, Fred, but I won't use that n-word in any of my work. Can't stand it.
<Robert> They're poor. Shiftless and poor and start fights and get drunk and wreck everything.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Neither can I
<Anne_Marble> I think so
<Kaelle> Eeek! (Irish heritage)
<CiceroCat> that's really... mean if you draw that comparison
<CiceroCat> on the dog and irish thing
<@SLViehl> I'm half Irish, btw, so I've heard almost everything -- Papists was new, though, Catherine
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Double eeek (red-headed Irish heritage)
<CiceroCat> cool, sheila
<CiceroCat> i always admired irish and celtic people and stuff
<Fredrick Obermeyer> My family is part Irish, from my mother's side
<Anne_Marble> Some of the anti-Catholic stuff is really anti-Irish stuff
<Robert> Oh and they'll steal but that's more the Welshe they say that. (me welsh)
<@Jim> Me grandfather's name was Massey... not sure if his family came from Ireland or not.
<@SLViehl> My brother has a tshirt that says, "Jaysus, don't blow up the bloody pub"
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> worse - scottish heritiage. And scots-irish family.
<CiceroCat> haggis isn't associated with them is it?
<CiceroCat> is that the Scots?
<JamiJo> scot
<CiceroCat> ah
<@SLViehl> haggis is Scottish
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Associating all Irish with the IRA
<Nathan> "You're an orange man"
<@SLViehl> Ouch, Nathan, good one
<Anne_Marble> Look at some of what has gone on in England.
<Nathan> My mom came up with that one
<@SLViehl> All right, Time for me -- any last comments, suggestions, insults?
<CiceroCat> orange?
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> "Pros" or "prods" for the northern irish
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Rubes
<Nathan> "bloody orange man"
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> ulster protestants
<CiceroCat> look in irish books-- like ashes' for angela-- see if they have anything you can use
<athenesc> What about the insult about taking away their language & hertiage?
<CiceroCat> angela's ashes/
<CiceroCat> i cant' remember which, was a movie tho
<CiceroCat> or do online search
<CiceroCat>
<SSwain> angela's ashes
<Robert> The English think of them as brutes and violent.
<Anne_Marble> Or as maids
<@SLViehl> Thanks all, I do appreciate it. JamiJo, do you have a question for the group?
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> We do?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> irish women are easy
<JamiJo> yup
<JamiJo> I have a MC who gets transplanted to a colony world where she knows only her husband, her kids, and her sister.
<JamiJo> Colony is 100-200 years old, founded by folks from her world, but has not had many other people moving on / off world.
<JamiJo> Agriculture based (home planet is pole-to-pole city). most residents were born on-planet...
<JamiJo> I am trying to think of things to make her life difficult communication wise, without resorting to language differences...
<SSwain> live remotely?
<Robert> Regional cultural differences like religion and custom.
<moonpowered> cultural differences of all kinds
<Kaelle> Customs... differences can sometimes be a barrier
<@SLViehl> metaphors particular to the world.
<CiceroCat> just outsiders alone could cause it...
<Kaelle> Like the Amish, CC
<CiceroCat> they'll try her out, put her in a pecking order--if she disturbs it, she's gonna ruffle feathers
<Robert> Religious differences can make vast difference like Amish next door ti Moslems
<@SLViehl> Gender taboos -- men don't speak to unmarried women
<Anne_Marble> Lifestyle differences like they use more primiitve things because it'scheaper and more efficient -- maybe they're a century or two back in some kinds of tech
<athenesc> You have communication differences even when you have the same language. Look at American English & British English.
<JamiJo> good idea cicerocat..
<Fredrick Obermeyer> An age difference
<@SLViehl> Broad accents that make it difficult to follow when they speak rapidly
<JamiJo> oooh accents are even better...
<Jehane> slang/colloquial even though their language might be technically the same
<Robert> Opposite customs specifically: Men wear hats on one. Men never do on the other.
<CiceroCat> maybe they have a bad feeling about the homeworld, a prejudice, kinda like how America has towards British early on after colonization
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Religious taboos
<@SLViehl> I know a guy from Cornwall who's basically incomprehensible when he's angry
<@SLViehl> religious taboos are good
<JamiJo> i was thinking of utilizing the tech, too, since they will have limited resources and the homeworld just finished a war, wouldn't have had supplies to give them much
<SSwain> just being unable to cope with the differences between a farm-planet and city-planet would cause problems.
<moonpowered> religious differences based on home being tech-based (religion) and new world being 'earth'-based/values different
<CiceroCat> maybe they escaped the homeworld for freedom and she's bring it back in
<JamiJo> true
<CiceroCat> according to them
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if the inhabitants are light sensitive and she is dark sensitive
<@Jim> Sheila: Reminds me of the guy in Blazing Saddles who spoke western gibberish.
<CiceroCat> lol jim
<@SLViehl> I remember that guy . . .
<JamiJo> Do you think that having the kids with her (*young* kids) might also help them feel less than kindly towards her?
<SSwain> actually no...
<moonpowered> the kids might be the communication link
<CiceroCat> maybe something in the new world physically changed them a little, and so if you don't look like that, you are not liked
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could she have aphasia?
<SSwain> kids are considered good in agricultural societies....more hands to work in the fields.
<@SLViehl> Sure, if her kids create problems in society -- maybe she's raised them to be fun-loving and open, and the kids on that world are strictly governed
<@Jim> You could have a spaceship visit... lots of culture clash possibilities there.
<JamiJo> Swain good point, didn't think of that
<CiceroCat> did she have them out of wedlock, illegitamatly?
<JamiJo> no, the couple are married
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Adultery?
<JamiJo> no....
<Robert> Being a slut for not wearing a hat?
<JamiJo> what is aphasia?
<CiceroCat> ok... maybe the way she's upbrigning them could rouse dissession and dislike
<Anne_Marble> Oooh, what if they were all born out of replicators, and she was born naturally? Or vice versa?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Clothing can affect impressions
<@SLViehl> Imagine trying to live among the Shakers, or the Amish, up to their standards and customs -- pins instead of buttons, no electricity, ouch
<CiceroCat> if they are very set in their ways
<Jehane> maybe they look down on her because she only has two kids
<@SLViehl> Nice twist, Jehane
<SSwain> yeah, interesting idea...
<@SLViehl> Everyone has 20 kids! Eek!
<CiceroCat> or maybe if they are like the Japenese, they only want one gender or only one kid and they has more than one
<JamiJo> that would esp. work on the ag. world, Jehane
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could the colonists be androgynous
<SSwain> "you're already 30 and you only have 2 kids???" something like that.
<moonpowered> individual vs. group orientation
<deathsarrow> the japanese thing is because of overpopulation
<athenesc> Did she have a city job before coming to this ag world?
<@SLViehl> These colonists are descended from the same species as your MC, right, JamiJo?
<deathsarrow> they are only allowed one child
<deathsarrow> and wish their name to be carried on so they have a boy
<JamiJo> ummm... no, she didn't have a job
<JamiJo> yes
<JamiJo> same homeworld even
<CiceroCat> maybe they consider not having a job as wrong
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What about an empathy bill...she needs to earn communal empathy
<@SLViehl> So she would represent everything they were trying to get away from, in a way
<CiceroCat> maybe if it's anew place everyone must work a lot, and then she's seen as a slacker for just being mother/wife
<Anne_Marble> What if she's strictly governed and the colonists are fun-loving and open?
<@SLViehl> Time- any last comments, suggestions for JamiJo?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A Puritan amongst hedonist--sounds interesting
<JamiJo> thanks everyone for the ideas!! i have a lot to work with now
<CiceroCat> oh yes good one, religious difference or other opinoins or personality differences --outgoing when they aren't
<Anne_Marble> They sell what in this shop?!
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all -- we're going to take a five minute break now, then CiceroCat, you'll be up
<JamiJo> heh heh anne, that might be dangerous
<CiceroCat> cool, food break
<Robert> How about mutual Puritanical customs about different things - showing hair is bad to one, eating sweets to another...
<@SLViehl> brb, putting the tea kettle on
<Robert> Changing files
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Seinfeldism: why is the common cold so common? It's not like anyone askes it over for dinner
<Anne_Marble> Gotta turn the heat up. shuder
<JamiJo> heh heh heh
<JamiJo> Steven, glad to see ya made it
<CiceroCat> bk
<CiceroCat> god aspirin --what a wonderful inventoin
<Robert> Getting coffee made
<SSwain>
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Tea is in order, I think...
<@SLViehl> While we're on break, since we have a bunch of new folks here tonight, any questions about the think tank and how we do this?
<CiceroCat> lol fredrick
<CiceroCat> i have one... do you cycle through the people again?
<@SLViehl> I'll add people to the end of the list if we have time, CC
<@SLViehl> They just have to yell "Got a Question now!" at me
<CiceroCat> ok i was just wondering if it ended after hte last on the list had their go
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I have a cold, which is probably why I'm waxing about colds
<moonpowered> i think i'm getting it, thanks
<CiceroCat> colds are bad right now
<JamiJo> I like it - it's cutting out of my normal writing time (ACK! The HORROR!) but it's good to see everyone else's questions - helps me work through other stuff I have
<@SLViehl> I try to run the session around two hours at the most, but we usually run over
<SSwain> jami - looks like Scott made it in long enough to get on the list then left.
<CiceroCat> and these are made into transcripts too?
<@SLViehl> Yes -- I always post a transcript on the transcript board
<JamiJo> And this is a new group of chat folks, so it's neat to see their takes on stuff
<CiceroCat> inspiration, jami?
<CiceroCat> cool
<JamiJo> oh, that was our Scott? I was wondering that
<@SLViehl> Robert is my backup in case my transcript dies
<SSwain> I think...
<JamiJo> yeah, big time inspiration
<SSwain> he said he was going to come in tonight.
<CiceroCat> and it's fun to help too
<CiceroCat> stupid autodisconnect, I DO want to stay on
<CiceroCat> lol
<@SLViehl> You really get such a wide variety of ideas -- it can be a lot of fun, and great help
<CiceroCat> watch my comp wammy me now
<Fredrick Obermeyer> beats watching NBC
<SSwain> this is cool - getting ready for the next challenge/dares.
<Anne_Marble> I've got NBC on
<JamiJo> musta been after I went home from work.
<@SLViehl> brb -- kettle is whistling
<CiceroCat> which reminds me, i must sign up on the mm list
<CiceroCat> i think i'm gonna try it... it doesn't hurt to try, i'll find my limits then
<JamiJo> wonder if he'll try to come back...
<SSwain> Jami - no plans for next saturday. write all day, yahoo.
<CiceroCat> Seinfeild?
<@SLViehl> Anne, how was the paper show? Make me drool
<CiceroCat> paper show?
<Katherine> Hi all
<@SLViehl> Hi Katherine
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Jerry Seinfeld's a famous comedian
<JamiJo> yay! I haven't broken the news to Mikey yet....
<CiceroCat> hi Katherine
<SSwain> lol
<CiceroCat> yeah, i was wondering if the person meant -- him coming back
<JamiJo> But he has to work so it won't matter.
<@SLViehl> Last call for bathroom/beverage/whatever breaks
<SSwain> no, Jami meant Scott.
<CiceroCat> ah lol
<Robert> whew back, coffee started bathroom been
<Katherine> Looks like I timed it perfectly. Yay!
<CiceroCat> embarrased look
<SSwain> 'sokay. hehe.
<CiceroCat>
<JamiJo> Oh! - half of the girls toys showed up today, from Canada, so they are happily munching and crunching on their toys... (parrots for those who are wondering...)
<CiceroCat> i thought you were talking about dogs for a sec
<JamiJo> ... they won't be bugging me for attention when crunch weekend comes
<CiceroCat> we have a parakeet ourselves
<@SLViehl> My daughter does that, and she's homo sapien....I think
<SSwain> two keets?
<CiceroCat> one of our past one -- lol SS -- used to perch on your shoulder or finger
<CiceroCat> she was real cute-- then she started going for the head and pecking you
<CiceroCat> so we couldn't let her anymore
<@SLViehl> Kae, are you getting bounced?
<CiceroCat> does your parrot mimick people?
<JamiJo> yup... talking and other noises... they both do
<CiceroCat> cool, my dad said he knew of one who immitated a door bell and a microwave binger
<JamiJo> they're SPOILED!
<Kaelle_> Sheila, no, was takiing a break
<CiceroCat> lol
<@SLViehl> Okay everyone, back to work.
<CiceroCat> ok, is it my turn?
<@SLViehl> CC, you're up, Jehane, you're next
<CiceroCat> k.... i have a dragonish q too. Okay, i have two minidragons used for passenger pigeon duty
<Robert> Cool. Are they smarter than pigeons?
<CiceroCat> one is used by a special army group, and the other is used by nobility and rich... my q is ... how can they recognize different homes and stuff to go to? i thought visual signs people put on their houses and the dragons remembered them
<Yvonne> everything is smarter than pigeons
<CiceroCat> yes they are pretty smart--smarter than birds
<@SLViehl> smell -- scent is highly individual
<Jehane> house numbers on the roofs
<JamiJo> well, if they are like birds... they will be able to tell by landmarks as well
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Follow the mate
<Robert> Pigeons remember where they were hatched on a homing instinct. But the visual signals work if dragons see well.
<Kaelle_> any magic sigils in use?
<CiceroCat> i considered that-- so they could smell the person, but ... if they have to fly long distances, like cross country?
<JamiJo> they will recognize their "home" territory by whatever they see on a regular basis
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could pigeons be equipped with sonar, like bats
<moonpowered> maybe there are energy fields, invisible to humans but visible to dragons
<Katherine> Visual signs seems good to me.
<@SLViehl> magic lines -- I like that
<CiceroCat> they were originally very good at seeing small stuff and then breeding by people improved them
<JamiJo> You might want their training to include the trainer taking them high up in a tree or on a roof if you use visual cues...
<Robert> Yes, the ley lines follows the magnetic field theory of migrating birds.
<@SLViehl> Like some kind of magic air traffic control grid
<CiceroCat> magic sigils--like special signs?
<Nonny> Hello all!
<SSwain> maybe recipient has an amulet and the sender gives them the pair and the minidrag has to find the house that matches up with the amulet they have?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> magic bird song
<@SLViehl> Sound waves carry -- could have a homing beacon type thing
<CiceroCat> they would be used by mages, but also normal richies too
<Katherine> Birds can also tell direction by prevailing winds. They think. Bird migration isn't all that well understood.
<@JimMills> Teach them the route once and they remember it later?
<Kaelle_> CC, yes magically made signs that the dragons would see.
<CiceroCat> oh and this is fantasy too btw
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Semaphores
<JamiJo> maybe they recognize the magic "signature" of the area?
<CiceroCat> hmmm... never thought of that kalle, that might help the mages (who are being executed) to get messagesa bout via them
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I like that, JamiJo
<Jehane> follow leylines of magic - like flight paths
<Fredrick Obermeyer> telepathy directions
<moonpowered> if you use the energy lines/magic lines, they can go where they've never been before
<CiceroCat> but jim i want them to be able to go toseveral places, besides to a like messagnig depot thingy
<Katherine> If they follow magic grid lines, then individual mages might act as locator beacons
<CiceroCat> hmm, leylines that's a neat idea... my people don't have telepathy exactly-- a few do...
<@SLViehl> Cc, I think you need a homing-type signal if you have mutiple destinations. Something they follow
<JamiJo> mebbe like bees... they are taught by others in their flights where the different locations are?
<Yvonne> if they're telepathic they could zero in on individuals
<Nathan> A lane kinda like a car lane that goes to where ever the dragon is going
<CiceroCat> okay, what is a homing type signal?
<Robert> If in the wild dragons migrate naturally they would orient on dragon landmarks. Moving a minidrag nesting spot to your castle would do it.
<Nonny> Hello, am I coming in at all?
<CiceroCat> oh, if the animals are?
<@SLViehl> Scent, sound, thermals, anything that would draw them by sense, CC
<Jehane> I see you nonny
<SSwain> amulet they wear around the neck so that the sender can set it to guide them.
<Kaelle_> I see you Nonny
<@SLViehl> Hi Nonny, we're reading you just fine
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could they have magic strings the birds follow
<Nathan> ICU nonny
<@SLViehl> nice, SS
<CiceroCat> ok...hmmm you're giving me some ideas....
<CiceroCat> right now tho, magic is outlawed tho...
<Nonny> OK, I'm new and am trying to figure out the software (sorry I'm late, BTW).
<CiceroCat> in the past it wasn't...
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Code songs
<CiceroCat> hi nonny
<Nathan> Train them...have one dragon for each area or something
<@SLViehl> What if you have a tracker amulet on the dragon, and a signal amulet on the person at their destination?
<moonpowered> so some people and maybe dragons know it...
<SSwain> right, SL, that's what I was thinking.
<@SLViehl> Good point, Nathan
<moonpowered> magic, i mean
<Kaelle_> Magic may be outlawed, doesn't mean it's not in use.
<SSwain> but the tracker amulet is set-able - the sender can change the "destination"
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could you have werepigeons?
<@SLViehl> One dragon trained to deliver to each destination, if you want to avoid magic
<CiceroCat> so, a special amulet used to guide them to a matching amulet -- maybe it pulses a frequency?
<@SLViehl> werepigeons (shudder)
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> But if its outlawed, they can't use it routinely on dragons
<SSwain> right
<JamiJo> would each dragon have their own sets of amulets?
<CiceroCat> they do have magic crystals.... maybe they can use them.... lol sheila
<Robert> Maybe they're made from the material of dragon nests.
<athenesc> What about something like the Pony Express but with dragons?
<SSwain> yeah, Jami - permanent amulet around their neck. That's what I was thinking anyway. CC can do something different.
<Robert> So that the natural dragons' way of homing on the nest is split into portable amulets?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> maybe they follow bird crap trails...pigeons seem to leave a lot of that behind
<@SLViehl> What sends a signal through the air over long distances that isn't magic? Radio waves
<moonpowered> the amulet idea is interesting because it's easy to intercept and re-direct if you're an antagonist
<Robert> Then you don't need one on the dragon, just to put fragments of its original nest on all the locations you want to send to.
<CiceroCat> possibly... well magic crystals in my world are born of magic itself -- if htat helps
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for CC?
<CiceroCat> not made by magic people...
<SSwain> Robert: but then which one would the dragon know to go to?
<Nonny> Sheila, can you add me to the list for a question?
<CiceroCat> bird crap trails lol
<@SLViehl> Sure Nonny
<Nonny> Thanks!
<Nonny>
<CiceroCat> thanks guys on this, i really want to use these critters but it's hard
<Robert> You would have to... hm, good point, that takes communications.
<@SLViehl> I'd do a variation on a homing beacon, CC -- either magic or practical science -- to summon the dragons to their destination
<CiceroCat> k focus on homing beacon
<Robert> Basically train the dragon to distinguish several of them and send with a command to go to the third or something.
<SSwain> yes.
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all for some great ideas -- Jehane, you're up, athenesc, you're next
<Anne_Marble> Do they have a good sense of smell?
<SSwain> yes to SL, that is.
<CiceroCat> that could work too-- i wasn't planning on too many peole thy go to--- thanks agian!!!
<Jehane> There are three people on a quest, a sorceress and two warriors.
<CiceroCat> yes anne and sight
<Jehane> One of the warriors (M) is an exiled heir to a throne he doesn t want, and love interest to the sorceress. The other (V) is a bastard who doesn t know who his father is. The warriors are best friends.
<Jehane> M is going to die. Before that, V finds out he is actually the son of the current king (M s grandfather) and therefore M s uncle and also in line for the throne.
<Jehane> . Is this too cliched, given that their quest is something bigger and this whole throne business is really just a sideplot (and gives V somewhere to go at the end of the story)?
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> SOunds fine to me...
<Anne_Marble> Vultures can find tiny methane leaks by sense of smell, even way up in the sky
<Kaelle_> Sounds good, Jehane
<Robert> I like that. Especially as subplot
<JamiJo> Does he let M know?
<Nonny> Seems good to me.
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Not cliched, fine
<SSwain> It's fine as long as it's not "oh, hey, guess what! I'm the king. you guys can all rejoice now."
<@SLViehl> If you've got other things going, it's not cliche -- besides, V doesn't have to assume the throne, right?
<Kaelle_> Does he want to inherit?
<Katherine> Works for me. Whether it's cliche or not depends on how you handle it.
<CiceroCat> no, i don't think it's cliched--i never herad of anyone doing an idea like that
<Jehane> V doesn't tell M, but M isn't stupid - he works it out before he dies
<Nonny> Ditto Katherine. =D
<JamiJo> ?? M works it out before V does?
<@SLViehl> Plenty of heirs walk away from thrones.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> V loves them both, but must choose
<JamiJo> Mebbe on M's deathbed he tells V he knows... gives him direction for the ending?
<Jehane> They work it out more or less at the same time, when they're confronting the current king
<SSwain> Just because M dies doesn't mean that M's father is dead.
<JamiJo> oh, well if they learn at the same time...
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Does this culture practice polygamy? Could there be two kings and one queen?
<Jehane> M is heir through his mother
<CiceroCat> or they maybe forced to too if he wasn't first in line or something and their might end up being a feud or death
<Jehane> M dies, so no problem with two kings
<CiceroCat> (sometimes they try to off the other princes, like in Robert Green's book)
<JamiJo> does M's father survive?
<CiceroCat> or if they have consorts/concubines and do they accept kids from them as heirs?
<JamiJo> or, i suppose, the current king
<Jehane> M's mother was exiled for marrying someone her father (the current king) didn't approve of
<CiceroCat> great character interaction i could see here, btw
<Katherine> CC has a good point. Can illegitimate kids inherit?
<@SLViehl> V could turn the throne over to M's child -- he doesn't want it
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if the royal society had no concept of bastards?
<SSwain> ahh. daughter = cadet branch.
<Jehane> he's the last in the line once M dies, so I think they may make an exception
<@SLViehl> There you go, Fredrick -- that's a nice twist
<@SLViehl> Maybe M has an illegitimate child....
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Thanks, SL
<Jehane> That's a possibility Frederick, have to think about that option
<CiceroCat> what if they had to do a combat battle to decide who inherits unless one concedes
<Jehane> M has no children
<Nonny> Oooh, I like that thought (re: Frederick's suggestion).
<SSwain> you mean "a son is a son is a son"
<@SLViehl> But M dies before that point, CC
<@SLViehl> I think
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Yes, all sons are equal in the eyes of the king
<Fredrick Obermeyer> And daughters too
<Jehane> M dies before they need anyone to inherit, and he doesn't want the throne anyway
<CiceroCat> ah--- shoot forgot... but does M and V know about themselves as heirs Before or after M dies?
<SSwain> so the only consideration would be birth order?
<Kaelle_> <bowing to Frederick>
<@SLViehl> Yay Fredrick
<Katherine> Still, the king would have to acknowledge a son. Otherwise no way to prove it (unless they have DNA testing).
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Hereditary tattoos
<Jehane> M knows he's heir to the throne, but V only finds out halfway through the story
<CiceroCat> ok
<JamiJo> magic could probably replace DNA testing in a fantasy world...
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Passed down through generations
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Hereditary tattoos make it impossible not to knw...
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Can't be wiped off without leaving a magic trace
<@SLViehl> Birth markings of some type, showing royal blood
<Jehane> The king will acknowledge him, he just didn't know he existed previously
<CiceroCat> or, do like Robin McKinley -- a special herb that if theyt ake it does someting -- maybe kills off everyone but of the king's bloodline
<Nonny> Yeah, I've replaced DNA testing with magic in some of my stories.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Jehane?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Maybe a gom jabbar like test for lineage
<Kaelle_> CiceroCat - "oops, oh sorry" lol
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> birth markings are too obvious - if its common knoledge that the King;s children have one
<CiceroCat>
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> or that could be the way that V finds out - M shows him his
<Jehane> Thanks people - I came up with this at 3am and thought I'd check it out
<Robert> Or something like the Fior Righ to determine which of all those heirs is best for the throne.
<CiceroCat> best ideas sometimes come at odd hours
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all -- athenesc, you're up, Emily, you're next
<Katherine> A birthmark or tattoo could also be up under the hairline and therefore mostly invisible.
<athenesc> I was watching Cary Grant movies & I was wondering how to put his cool, sauve, understated brand of humor in my writing? I like quiet intelligent humor more than broad humor & would like to do it well.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Like The Omen
<Nonny> Too true, CC.
<CiceroCat> or invisible except to magic
<CiceroCat> makers seeing or sometihng
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Good idea, Cicero
<Nonny> Yeah, I like that!
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> or not common knowledge
<Robert> Imagine casting him in the part in the book to get his style?
<@SLViehl> Subtle humor is fun to write -- hard to think up
<@SLViehl> I think intelligent puns, observations, a little wry self-depracation
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Terry Prachett
<JamiJo> hmmm...
<@SLViehl> Someone who never has to raise his voice to be heard
<SSwain> double-meanings. non sequiturs.
<SSwain> very subtle
<JamiJo> was cary grant an actor or writer? <--- young'un
<Anne_Marble> Read similar things in book form, maybe Nick & Nora Charles.
<athenesc> actor
<Robert> Lots of rewriting to keep every good line you get and then build on the wit.
<Nathan> actor
<SSwain> actor, Jami.:)
<Anne_Marble> Try a wry narrator
<@SLViehl> You know who is really, really good at wry wit is James -- and he's not here tonight!!!
<Nonny> Actually, Terry Pratchett came across way too silly for me; I didn't find his humor subtle at all.
<Nonny> Wry narrators are fun to write.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Opinions vary
<JamiJo> watch other things with same writers / producers?
<@SLViehl> Okay, think up some great examples
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Coen brothers
<Robert> I mean write as if they were doing yoru book as a movie and he would be in that part.
<@SLViehl> Sharon Lee & Steve Miller's Liaden novels.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Alfred bester meets Robert Sheckley
<SSwain> David Weber's Bahzell series. There's some sly humor there.
<Anon_96> back
<@SLViehl> Clan Korval is just chock full of subtle wits
<Anon_96> i think
<athenesc> TCM is showing more of his films next week & I'm going to watch those.
<BarGnatacto> Cary Grant did broad humor well, too, by the way
<Anne_Marble> William Powell comedies.
<Anon_96> shoot
<Kaelle_> Liaden universe rocks
<Anon_96> there i'm CiceroCat
<Jehane> i see you anon96
<Anon_96> nooooooooooo
<Anon_96> sigh never mind.... what was hte q again?
<athenesc> yes but he always looked so classy doing it.
<Jehane> you can't change the name until the other you has disappeared from the list
<BarGnatacto> Did you ever see Arsenic and Old Lace
<@SLViehl> What other examples in books and movies can we offer, folks?
<BarGnatacto> He combined the two beautifully in that
<@SLViehl> Mumford -- I loved the actor who played the lead in that one
<Anne_Marble> "The Thin Man" movies. And ... oh, maybe "My Man Godfrey" --- that includes social issues as well
<JamiJo> Piers Anthony is WAAAY over the top but he's got some subtler stuff hidden in Xanth
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Dimension of Miracles by Robert Sheckley. Very witty in spots.
<Katherine> Anything by David Mamet.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Definitely Mamet
<Anon_96> (testing)
<Anon_96> nope i'm stuck as anon
<@SLViehl> CC, try typing "CC2" where it says Name
<Nonny>
<@SLViehl> and then hit return
<Anon_96> Sheila, can you do me a fvaor and kick CiceroCat out?
<@SLViehl> No, that will block your ISP from the room
<CiceroCat2> oh darn ... ok
<CiceroCat2> there
<CiceroCat2> i'm doppleganger... was the question on how to make someone like Cary Grant?
<@SLViehl> Welcome back. We're trying to think up some examples of subtle wit for athenesc
<@SLViehl> as writing examples
<CiceroCat2> subtle wit... hmm....
<Katherine> Wag the Dog, State and Main (movies)
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Three Kings
<@SLViehl> Jane Austen -- I know she's dated, but I love her dialogue
<Katherine> Yes, definitely Austen.
<Nathan> What's subtle wit?
<CiceroCat2> hmmm, darn i can't think of anyone
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Robert Heinlein, Jubal Harshaw
<@SLViehl> Humor without being like a sledgehammer with it, Nathan. Classy-funny
<Robert> Isaac Asimov and Sheila Viehl
<@SLViehl> Not me. Definitely NOT me
<@SLViehl> lol
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Douglas Adams
<Anne_Marble> Some of the Lois McMaster Bujold stuff. Though Miles isn't suave!
<CiceroCat2> lol
<Katherine> Possibly Michael Ondaatje (The English Patient).
<CiceroCat2> oh yes, DA is good
<BarGnat> Asimov's man named Stein
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five
<@SLViehl> Anne Perry has her moments
<athenesc> This is helping alot. Thanks.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last suggestions for athenesc?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Philip K. Dick in Ubik
<SSwain> Walter Jon Williams - Ten Points for Style
<Robert> Oddly Alfred Hitchcock.
<@SLViehl> Mumford is the best movie (contemporary) I can think of. And Jane Austen is classic
<CiceroCat2> try t o remember witty people you liked in novels you rad
<CiceroCat2> read
<BarGnat> Some of the puns in Rats Bats & Vats are pretty subtle
<Katherine> You might browse the Best Essays series. I can't think of any names, but some essayists are very good at that.
<Jehane> Georgette Heyer if you don't mind romance
<CiceroCat2> or movies you watch and model em after them
<BarGnat> Heyer is good at it
<Robert> Duh. Shakespeare.
<Kaelle_> Keep watching Cary Grant movies. <g>
<SSwain> oh, yes. RBV is good. Eric Flint is really good at sly humor.
<BarGnat> hehe
<JamiJo> lol
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all you sublte wits out there -- Emily, you're up, SSwain, you're next
<Anne_Marble> Oh yeah, Hitch. Especially the one with the dead body people kept walking over. And even "Frenzy" in spots. In a sick way
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Connie Willis's short story Ado
<Anne_Marble> Chaplin's "Mr. Verdeux" (spelling?)
<Jehane> i always thought shakespeare was more slapstick
<Nathan> Bruce Willis, sometimes
<@SLViehl> It appears Emily bailed on us. SSwain, you're up
<CiceroCat2> love bruce willis
<Fredrick Obermeyer> David Brin's interview on Hour 95.
<SSwain> ok.
<Anne_Marble> Mr. Verdeux was a comedy about a wife killer!
<Katherine> Oh! Fargo.
<athenesc> Bye all. Thanks for the help. Have to go take a shower.
<BarGnat> bye
<@SLViehl> night athenesc!
<Nathan> Bye athenesc
<Jehane> bye athenesc
<CiceroCat2> bye athenesc
<SSwain> fantasy world. magic system has severe limitations. the mage has to expend his own energy to maintain the spell.
<Anne_Marble> Bye
<Nonny> G'night!
<Robert> Night athene
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Au revoir
<moonpowered> bye
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> bye athenesc
<BarGnat> can he absorb energy from other things/people?
<SSwain> so would it make sense for the mage to become weaker the more spells he has running. or would it be better to have him able to draw in energy from the surroundings?
<Kaelle_> How does the mage re- um repower?
<CiceroCat2> maybe both
<SSwain> I don't want the magic to be "wave his hands" and hey-presto.
<CiceroCat2> if he has more running he gets weaker, the more he has to draw in
<Nonny> How does he get his power in the first place?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Specific surroundings like animals or his family
<@SLViehl> practically speaking, wouldn't the mage need a backup generator?
<Nonny> Ley lines?
<SSwain> yes. I am thinking that it would take awhile to recharge, though.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Feeds on love
<Jehane> how does he draw his energy from elsewhere?
<Katherine> Borrow some of CC's magic crystal?
<CiceroCat2> lol
<Kaelle_> Can he overload?
<BarGnat> "plaiting" sunlight or moonlight?
<Robert> Maybe he needs to put artifacts out all night under moonlight or all day under sun to recharge them?
<SSwain> yes, he can overload. it'll kill him if he does too much.
<BarGnat> sorta like Zenna Henderson did it?
<CiceroCat2> yeah, if your magic does make natural formations those could be very helpful
<@SLViehl> How about a conduit that draws in life energy from other living things?
<CiceroCat2> plaiting BG?
<SSwain> hmm
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Maybe he can only gain power from genetic relatives
<@SLViehl> Vampire magic
<CiceroCat2> maybe if certain times -- full moon he has more power
<BarGnat> Word ZH uses in her books
<CiceroCat2> maybe he's blood magic -- sacrifice willing or no
<JamiJo> maybe he needs to sacrifice something..
<Fredrick Obermeyer> his fertility
<CiceroCat2> maybe he's immortal and dies everytime he does magic but is reborn
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Like the pheonix
<moonpowered> moonpowered
<CiceroCat2> or wakes up like Immortals in the Highlander series
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> Holly has magic drawn from people in secret texts
<Nonny> What about blood magic through a willing sacrifice?
<Jehane> BG: sounds like Rawn's sunrunner series
<Nonny> Or himself?
<@SLViehl> Could be calorie-based magic -- the more he uses, the more he burns?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Like that, SL
<SSwain> yeah, SL
<Anne_Marble> How about if he needs objects related to the spell in order to perform it. Uhm, sympathetic magic. So if he doens't have the objects, he can't do the spell.
<JamiJo> what a great way to lose weight, SL
<@SLViehl> Jenny Craig would have a field day on this world.
<Robert> Painfully! Very painfully it takes life force out of him and renews. LIke the calories Sheila
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Fat people are more magical
<CiceroCat2> so he can be like thinner in Stephen King if he doesn't replenish meals
<SSwain> I'm just wondering how much sense it would have....I guess if i do it right, it'll work. but not exactly sure how to work it.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Or maybe it's thin people
<CiceroCat2> constantly consumed by eating
<CiceroCat2> and eating
<@SLViehl> Fat people would terrify everyone in this world
<BarGnat> Jehane: Never read that series; but Henderson's "People" series is a classic
<Nonny> LOL
<Katherine> And doing too much leaves him looking like someone who just ran a marathon.
<moonpowered> maybe he actually shrinks! until he implodes and is born again.....?
<@SLViehl> Has anyone ever done calorie-based magic?
<@SLViehl> fantasy readers, help me out here
<BarGnat> hmmm
<Nonny> Not that I know of.
<Katherine> Hummingbird-like calorie intake.
<JamiJo> maybe working magic buils up a poison in his system that needs to be released
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Yes, SL, I saw a story similar to that on Critters
<SSwain> I vaguely recall something similar but I cannot remember for sure.
<Kaelle_> Yes. I read a story back awhile where the mage was huge because his magic used up caloriesl
<Katherine> Yeah, JJ, a lactic acid equivalent.
<Kaelle_> Can't remember the title
<CiceroCat2> like the poison idea
<Jehane> usually it's life force based, so you could say calorie, just like doing exercise
<@SLViehl> So work off something other than food calories, maybe -- I like the poison build up thing
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Magic through abstinence. Less sex, more power, but terrible mating urges
<JamiJo> if it builds up too much he passes out.... or dies...
<SSwain> hmm. lots of good ideas, thanks.
<CiceroCat2> or both -- maybe it detriments his whole body
<BarGnat> In The Witches of Karres, their magic required vast calorie intake afterwards
<Katherine> Abstinence has been done a lot, I think.
<CiceroCat2> too much and maybe his organs start to shut down
<Anne_Marble> Oh, it's SF, but what about that David Palmer second novel, Threshold? Where he could do amazing things but had to eat a lot to make it up?
<Jehane> kait (secret texts) eats a lot after changing
<Kaelle_> MZB's Darkover, the leronis has to eat a lot
<Robert> And then also sleep a lot too.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for SS?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Have sex a lot to burn off excess magic
<moonpowered> maybe uses the magnetic field of the planet, but risks changing/damaging the planet by doing magic
<SSwain> thanks, everyone.
<Nonny> It's pretty standard for mages to have to "recharge" afterwards by eating, now that I think about it -- both MZB and Mercedes Lackey had their characters eat granola-type bars after expending a lot of magic.
<@SLViehl> I'd go with an intake-output based magic. Maybe not food, but something burnable.
<Robert> Sex magic for recharging is good.
<CiceroCat2> could have to cast spell during sex or after-- directly afterwards
<Nonny> LOL
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Diabetic magic
<Nonny> I could see some interesting stories with that...
<CiceroCat2> sex magic is used in some beliefs (real life magic beliefs)
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Need insulin
<Nonny> >:)
<Anne_Marble> Oh I have a book called "Apprenticed to Pleasure" that involves sexual magic....
<Katherine> He'd have a terrible time keeping lovers.
<SSwain> diabetic magic, huh?
<Kaelle_> Sex magic - lots of possibilities there. lol
<SSwain> hmmmmmmm
<Fredrick Obermeyer> My father is a type II diabetic
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all for the neat ideas -- moonpowered, you're up, Fredrick, you're next
<Anne_Marble> I really do have to read that thing
<CiceroCat2> or maybe it's a coven type thing -- working together to build spell
<BarGnat> load up with GlucoVance and voila!
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I'm looking for different types of memory segregation ideas, like short term vs. long term, male vs. female
<SSwain> voila indeed. hehehe
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Ideas?
<CiceroCat2> lol
<Robert> Visual memory v. verbal memory
<JamiJo> genetic/race vs individual
<@SLViehl> Hang on, Fredrick, is moonpowered passing?
<SSwain> whoops
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Sorry
<Nonny> Oooh, like that JJ.
<Nonny> oops.
<moonpowered> ok, this is just in the gestation phase. i have lots of scenes, am still doing character auditions. what i need is
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Sorry, moonpowered
<@SLViehl> no problem you guys-- we're just following the roster
<moonpowered> a good reason for a young person (not sure of gender yet) to drive from ? to new mexico. gotta get the
<CiceroCat2> his eyes may have just skipped to you're next and thought he was going i'm easily confused sometimes that way
<moonpowered> main character to new mexico, driving.
<BarGnat> Do you want it to be a long drive?
<Nonny> How old is s/he?
<SSwain> school?
<Robert> Visit relatives. Visit friends. Go on vacation to visit sights they care about. Wnat to see the desert.
<SSwain> going to college or something?
<moonpowered> late teen
<@SLViehl> College starting, delivering a package, delivering a car
<Kaelle_> Field trip to pyramids
<Fredrick Obermeyer> to find a lover
<@SLViehl> going to see girlfriend
<CiceroCat2> hmmm.. family problems, hehas to leave or is kicked out-- and is going to live with friend/relative
<@SLViehl> Taking parents on vacation
<SSwain> pyramids? in new mexico? am I missing something?
<Nonny> ditto CC.
<Katherine> Sightseeing is a good reason. Lots of people do that right before or after college.
<BarGnat> will the action be "on the road" or in New Mexico?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Testing the engine
<@SLViehl> road trip just for the heck of it
<Nonny> How far away is he from NM?
<@SLViehl> SF convention
<moonpowered> needs to end up in the middle of nowhere.
<@SLViehl> (snort)
<CiceroCat2> or, maybe what is his interests? if he has like -- lol shiela
<Fredrick Obermeyer> To meet long lost sister
<Jehane> lol sheila
<CiceroCat2> we are in sync
<Anne_Marble> SPRING BREAK!!!!
<Kaelle_> oops sorry, missed the New part of new mexico lol
<CiceroCat2> i was gonna suggest con
<Anne_Marble> Maybe he likes UFOs?
<@SLViehl> What is IN New Mexico??
<Robert> Delivering car can be reason for THAT destination on sightseeing. Combine some!
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Find a rare lizard
<moonpowered> i think going to live with relatives might be perfect
<@SLViehl> Roswell
<Nonny> A lot depends on his character, I would think.
<@SLViehl> Relatives who live in Roswell . . .
<CiceroCat2> maybe he was going ot live with mom, who is divorced from father
<Katherine> Sandia National Labs. They do nuclear security.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Merge with his car and become the next turboteen
<Katherine> Also Los Alamos. They do nukes.
<moonpowered> why would a teen go to sandiaz/
<Jehane> delivering the car forces him/her to drive
<@SLViehl> He/she failed to make it on his/her own, have to go back and live with Mom and Dad
<@SLViehl> Or Auntie Em
<Nonny> Oooh, I like that, Sheila.
<CiceroCat2> accidentally went down the wrong road? didn't mean to go there?
<CiceroCat2> and is lost?
<SSwain> running away form home?
<moonpowered> great sheila!
<BarGnat> stole the vehicle and making a getaway?
<Katherine> Working for National Park Service over the summer?
<@SLViehl> skulking back home. Did that once or twice myself
<Nonny> The running away from home has been done, but I've not yet seen a running back to home story.
<Nonny>
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could the kid be an Indian looking for ancestral ghosts?
<moonpowered> not making it on his/her own would fit perfectly!
<@SLViehl> Mom always said "I told you you were too young to live on your own"
<Nathan> Going home from somewhere and he wants to avoid a stoplight that he doesn't like so he goes 100 miles out of his way to avoid this stoplight, plus it's a new car?
<CiceroCat2> or visiting his parents grave yards on their bday
<Robert> Actually if parents were separated going to parent the former custodial disliked IS running To Home
<moonpowered> can i use your mom's quote?
<Nonny> Going to see the other parent?
<Nonny> Maybe they live in separate states?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> To live in a commune, or is that too 60's?
<@SLViehl> Sure. She's only said it about ten thousand times
<Robert> Slow down a sec scribe got lost keeping up
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last questions, comments for moon?
<BarGnat> lol
<moonpowered> would i have to get copyright permission?
<Katherine> New Mexico weather is a bit harsh for communes.
<Nonny> Did I get kicked off here?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Survivalists then?
<CiceroCat2> i don't think so nonny
<CiceroCat2> isee your posts
<@SLViehl> Nah, moonpowered, you've got my permission
<Nathan> ICU nonny
<Katherine> Maybe survivalists, maybe some kind of cult.
<CiceroCat2> lol nathan
<moonpowered> thanks for all your help!
<CiceroCat2> maybe it's for a charity thing -- like awalk a thon for cancer
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Drive-a-thon?
<CiceroCat2>
<@SLViehl> Okay, thanks to all -- Fredrick, you're up, Anne, you're after Fredrick
<Fredrick Obermeyer> All right, memory segregation or a memory caste of some kind?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Family vs. stranger memory
<moonpowered> ?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Ideas?
<CiceroCat2> you mean like uhm... what's it called genetic memory like on stargate with the Goauld symbotes
<Katherine> Not sure what you mean, Frederick. Humans remember stuff in all sorts of ways.
<BarGnat> are they telepathic?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> How can memory be segregated?
<CiceroCat2> all remember what the past Goauld remember
<SSwain> different classes of people have different parts of their brain more developed.
<@SLViehl> You mean memory in a Jung kind of way?
<SSwain> maybe one part of their brain doesn't develop properly?
<BarGnat> Like Auel did it?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> yes, like collective unconscious
<Katherine> Segregated as in some memories blocked off?
<Robert> A bardic caste has perfect eidetic verbal memory of ALL old stories.
<@SLViehl> Geneological memory. Cool idea
<Jehane> if you make memory genetically sex-linked, you can have males and females have different memory types
<@SLViehl> You inherit your memories genetically
<CiceroCat2> can't claim it but it's cool on SG-1
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Gene mems vs. naturalized mems
<CiceroCat2> i think -- wait, Jean Auel did someting like this with her cavemen
<Katherine> A warrior caste might have a physical/kinesthetic equivalent of eidetic memory.
<BarGnat> It was cool in Clanof the Cave Bear, too
<CiceroCat2> cool bg
<@SLViehl> The other way to go is taught memory by caste
<Robert> Yes, remembering body skills!
<Anne_Marble> Orson Scott Card did something involving chemical memory passed from one creature to the other through water
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if you could only remember your father or your mother's memories?
<CiceroCat2> warrior passing down skill memory to kids
<SSwain> drugs to develop certain parts of the mind?
<@SLViehl> or perhaps. re-awakened memory through prompting
<JamiJo> maybe the land has memory that can be unlocked through magic or science?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Yes, geomems.
<CiceroCat2> regression type memory, sheila?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Sleep mems vs. waking mems
<moonpowered> does it have to be organic memory?
<@SLViehl> exactly, CC
<Robert> One caste remembers past lives?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> No, it can be non organic
<CiceroCat2> maybe their memories can be linked in a special way-
<@SLViehl> Holly did something really cool with geo memory
<CiceroCat2> like between two people
<@SLViehl> remember the kid who read the roads in the Secret Texts?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Village memory vs. city memory
<@SLViehl> Crispin's daughter
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Perhaps there could be age segregated memories
<Katherine> Hmmm... non organic? Like someone could download their memories to a chip of some kind?
<CiceroCat2> photographic memory?
<@SLViehl> Fredrick, which way are you leaning? Born-with memory, or taught-to?
<BarGnat> Or broaden it out to rural versus urban?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Born with
<moonpowered> then maybe the obvious memory chip...?
<CiceroCat2> or developed genetically
<@SLViehl> So we're looking at something that comes with the equipment, folks
<CiceroCat2> by breeding or tweaking
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Both
<BarGnat> gengineering?
<Robert> Could be caste skills tehn, like agriculture THIS area or hunting etc.
<CiceroCat2> people with wondeful memories were breed and breed till they are good memorizers
<Jehane> genetic differences between castes, so interbreeding between castes is frowned upon
<@SLViehl> memengineering -- imagine breeding children specifically for memory purposes
<moonpowered> maybe they have no natural memory, it's all techno
<@SLViehl> (vbshudder)
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A community of harijanns given discarded memories
<Fredrick Obermeyer> That is all they are allowed. Self memory is prohibited.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Fredrick?
<moonpowered> discarded memories - great!
<Robert> Fascinating world!
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Thanks
<CiceroCat2> soudns good fredrick m aybe regulate waht htey can remember too of whate they are given
<@SLViehl> I'd love to see where you go with this, Fredrick -- the possibilities are tres cool
<CiceroCat2> no memory on uprising or something
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if memory was seasonal
<CiceroCat2> or technology beyond certain point
<CiceroCat2> someone can be a real tyrant with this
<CiceroCat2> make slaves
<CiceroCat2> like drones or something
<Fredrick Obermeyer> The Slaves of Memory
<Katherine> I read an SF story told from the point of view of a 3D hologram.
<@SLViehl> But we have to move on Anne, you're up, and if Scott is here, he's after Anne
<Anne_Marble> My mage Wulf is looking for a powerful artifact in an ancient city. (He let himself be sent to the prison housed there on purpose to find it.) He hopes to use it to overturn the mages in control of his society because a once-good society has gone bad. I want this artifact to be different, though. Not a sword, or something. Perhaps knowledge? A book of philosophy that would cause havoc to society?
<moonpowered> if it's techno, one caste can be in control of all memories
<Robert> A musical instrument
<Anne_Marble> Any ideas on what he can be looking for?
<CiceroCat2> hmmm.... antimagic
<Jehane> what does it do?
<@SLViehl> You need an artifact that is a repository of knowledge, Anne?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A special type of ink
<Anne_Marble> I don't know yet.
<CiceroCat2> it will release antimagic on a person so they can't do magic -- or switches who has magic
<moonpowered> a word - archaic
<CiceroCat2> maybe lal hte people who were magickless willl now have magic
<moonpowered> a sound
<CiceroCat2> and mages now magickless
<Jehane> how will it help him?
<Anne_Marble> Yes, that might work. A book of philosophy from their messiah that says "It's OK for commoners to use magic."
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A recipe
<Anne_Marble> It will reveal that the ruling body has been lying or has been wrong.
<@SLViehl> I had an immediate image of Eco's The Name of the Rose
<Kae> Ooooh, if everybody could use magic, mucho upset mages.
<Anne_Marble> "It's a cookbook!!!"
<CiceroCat2> or new techniques in book
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Truth food recipe
<CiceroCat2> strong techniques, better than the current mage's
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if a society had no concept of food
<@SLViehl> Book full of wisdom, but the pages are poisoned
<Robert> Subtle point if the key book ISN'T a mage artifact but a n unenchanted philosophy book!
<Anne_Marble> (Anyone know what that line's from? )
<Fredrick Obermeyer> To Serve Man by Damon Knight
<Katherine> I do! I do!
<Anne_Marble> Yay!
<@SLViehl> To Serve Man
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Maybe it could be like a Maltest Falcon
<Fredrick Obermeyer> maltese, sorry
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A trap
<Anne_Marble> Or the Chocolate Malt Falcon
<@SLViehl> Okay, think objects, folks -- what other than a wand, sword, or book can Anne use?
<Fredrick Obermeyer>
<CiceroCat2> maybe it will control the will of whoever the person who weilds it wants
<@SLViehl> no pendants, either
<Kae> A skull
<CiceroCat2> a magical crystal ball
<moonpowered> does it have to be an object, per se?
<Anne_Marble> The Philosopher's Skull
<Katherine> Funky old tapestry with encrypted message in border.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Smartwine
<Kae> crystal skull, lol
<@SLViehl> a tapstry, woven with fate threads
<Jehane> a horn which doesn't sound when blown but nullifies magic
<Anne_Marble> Oooh, the talking head of a famous mage
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I must be hungry
<@SLViehl> ooh, Katherine, we're mind melding
<Nathan> An oracle
<CiceroCat2> magic jewelry?
<CiceroCat2> magic living being?
<BarGnat> a key?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I'd say orb, but it's cliche
<CiceroCat2> magic powder?
<Anne_Marble> "Hey, what's this arm doing here? And this leg?"
<CiceroCat2> so it's limited by how manyt imes
<@SLViehl> a scarab. An ordinary household object.
<Katherine> A natural fissure emitting vapors that allow prophecy.
<@SLViehl> A helmet
<Katherine> (Oracle at Delphi was actually built on one of those.)
<Anne_Marble> White powder
<SSwain> gotta go. thanks all. see ya next week.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A violin
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Later, Swain
<Jehane> bye ss
<@SLViehl> He'd never get it through the post office, Anne
<CiceroCat2> maybe it's the heart ofa dead god, perserved for use for others
<Anne_Marble> See ya
<Nathan> Bye SSwain
<@SLViehl> Night SS
<CiceroCat2> and it can be weilded as magic... night SS
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Heart of a dead god, I like that
<@SLViehl> ooh, CC, gruesome, I love it
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Glasses
<Anne_Marble> Neat
<@SLViehl> like the hand of glory
<CiceroCat2> i have my moments
<moonpowered> how about combining the household object (eggbeater, eg) with the recipe book
<Anne_Marble> Cthulu!!!
<CiceroCat2> yeah those hangmen's hands used to stop witches power
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Anne?
<Anne_Marble> They used to stop hangmen, as well!
<Fredrick Obermeyer> A golden lasso
<Anne_Marble> (Well cutting them off did)
<CiceroCat2> cool anne
<CiceroCat2> ooh a rope would be nice, a brade
<CiceroCat2> braid
<@SLViehl> Shoes. Magic shoes.
<Robert> A pen
<@SLViehl> Or magic pantyhose.
<CiceroCat2> magic feather
<Anne_Marble> Ruby slippers
<CiceroCat2> froma magic bird
<Nathan> something that turns whatever it touches into gold
<Kae> music box
<CiceroCat2> a wish
<@JimMills> codpiece.
<Jehane> the pen is mightier than the sword, robert?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> An elflet
<Anne_Marble> Actually he doesn't need a codpiece...
<@SLViehl> An egg. Watch what hatches out of it.
<Nathan> a lamp that you rub and a genie comes out
<CiceroCat2> like that music box -- open and it controls people's magic or something
<moonpowered> a seed
<Fredrick Obermeyer> What if you rubbed a genie and a lamp came out of him
<CiceroCat2> a mask
<Robert> Seed's good, gypsy legends around seeds
<Anne_Marble> I could have fun and throw all of the above in the story.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Dentures
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all -- since I don't see Scott, Katherine, you're up, Nonny, you're after Katherine
<moonpowered> a kaleidoscope
<Kae> that would be interesting,
<CiceroCat2> he could have to find which is the real item and which isn't
<Kae> Anne, lol
<Anne_Marble> And to think I was going to ask what he wears under his robes!!!
<BarGnat> It's bedtime for me. Bye all
<CiceroCat2> lol magic drawers
<@SLViehl> night BG
<CiceroCat2> night BG
<Anne_Marble> Thanks, now I have lots of cool ideas.
<Anne_Marble> Hee hee
<Anne_Marble> Nigth BG
<Nathan> Bye BarGnat
<moonpowered> bye
<Jehane> bye BG
<Kae> nite BG
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> bye BG
<Fredrick Obermeyer> good night BG
<Kae> lol, CC "magic drawers", rofl
<Katherine> Sorry, stepped away for a sec.
<@SLViehl> You're up K
<Katherine> I don't have a question, per se. Just a bad case of writer's angst.
<@SLViehl> Let us have it!
<CiceroCat2> have we soon to end the list? can people who want to ask, ask to be on the list again?
<Katherine> Feel like I've bitten off more than I can chew with my WIP.
<CiceroCat2> ok angst away on us, we be soundinb board
<CiceroCat2> sounding board
<Katherine> If I can pull it off, it'll be great. But that's feeling like a big IF lately.
<CiceroCat2> why do you feel you've bitten too much off?
<Katherine> (This is the Renaissance era historical fantasy I've mentioned before.)
<Robert> I liked that, Katherine!
<@SLViehl> Is it the writing, or the outlining, Katherine?
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> It is very cool
<@SLViehl> Or both?
<Robert> I don't think you've bitten off more than you can handle - if you get it all done first and then pick on it in the rewrite.
<Kae> Sorry, I gotta go - my brother's trying to call long distance. (I've got that Catch a Call thingie.) Thanks Sheila, everyone, for another great session!
<Katherine> The writing. I've got as much of an outline as I want.
<CiceroCat2> or an idea that you can't work out?
<@SLViehl> Night Kae
<Jehane> bye kae
<CiceroCat2> night kae
<splodgemaroon/CatherineM> bye Kae
<moonpowered> bye kae
<Fredrick Obermeyer> so long Kae
<Katherine> I'm feeling a bit like the juggler with too many plates in the air.
<@SLViehl> Are you writing every day, and getting bogged down, or feeling angst as you look at the road ahead?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Too many viewpoint characters?
<CiceroCat2> are you trying ot work on too many stories?
<Jehane> how many plates do you have in the air?
<CiceroCat2> or is RL interfereing?
<Katherine> Angst looking at the road ahead, which makes the daily writing tough slogging.
<@SLViehl> Ah, know that feeling well, don't we, group?
<Jehane> don't look at the road
<Robert> Only look at the part in front of you? Just relax and enjoy the scene you're in?
<Katherine> Three main plot threads, each with a viewpoint character, Frederick.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> That's tough. Harder than just one
<@SLViehl> It's like AA -- take it one day at a time, for me.
<Katherine> <laughing> That's exactly the advice I'd give someone in my position, Robert.
<@SLViehl> One scene at a time.
<CiceroCat2> work on just one at a time, and make notes of how it connects to the others?
<moonpowered> try writing each one separately & then cutting & pasting?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Do you know the ending?
<Katherine> Yeah, I know the ending. I think.
<CiceroCat2> yeah do like I think Lisle suggests at times, write the ending scene, see what things you need to connect in the middle to get to it
<@SLViehl> You've really got a great story with this one, Katherine -- most of us have heard the details, and agree on that
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I think Holly made a good point, I thought, about knowing your ending. So that way you can work to it.
<Katherine> And I know the beginning. It's the middle that's a tough slog.
<@SLViehl> Every day, I plot out and think about what I have to do that day. Blinders on to everything else during my writing time
<@SLViehl> middles are always a pain
<CiceroCat2> or if you have a favorite scene planned, and you have to slog thorugh other scenes to get to it, work on your fave scene as a treat
<Robert> It sounds like fun. Remember the process is fun. Every point, figure out what the most fun way to hadle that scene is.
<@SLViehl> I always kill a lot of people in the middle, just to slog through it.:)
<Fredrick Obermeyer>
<CiceroCat2> lol that's a good idea --- off some people
<CiceroCat2> have their horses slaughtered
<Fredrick Obermeyer> I think of the middle like an oasis between two vast tracts of desert
<CiceroCat2> if you don't wanna kill people
<Katherine> Mayhem might be just the thing. It may be time for a street riot.
<CiceroCat2> you like middles fredrick?
<Anne_Marble> Not the horses!!!!!
<CiceroCat2> lol
<@SLViehl> You can develop your social insurrection more in the middle
<CiceroCat2> ok, the dogs
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Depends on what's in them, CC2
<@SLViehl> give your characters something immediate, and transient, to deal with
<Anne_Marble> The dogs?!
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Sometimes I get bogged down, sometimes they fly right by
<CiceroCat2> hey look i htink my old doppleganger disappeared, i feel so free
<Katherine> Or maybe a rabble-rousing street preacher a la Savaronala.
<@SLViehl> make the writing fun for you, and the reading will be fun
<CiceroCat2> role play in the characters if you role play, to get in teh groove
<CiceroCat2> then you'lll want to write everything down
<@SLViehl> But don't let the road ahead intimidate you. That's the killer
<Robert> Set atmosphere. Pour wine and light candles and put on Renaissance music.
<Katherine> One page at a time...
<Anon_31> Am I still on the list?
<moonpowered> maybe do the role play with a tape recorder
<CiceroCat2> reward yourself after everything you accomplish on it
<Jehane> .
<Katherine> Too much paper in my office, Robert. I'd burn the house down...
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Allow for mistakes and don't beat yourself up
<@SLViehl> not to mention all that thin film laying around everywhere -- lol
<CiceroCat2> oh that's another idea -- try a diferent medium -- different font etc... something small like that might make it seem different
<moonpowered> take a break
<@SLViehl> good idea CC -- I sometimes switch to longhand
<@SLViehl> just to get off the keyboard
<Nonny2> Am I me yet (this is Nonny)
<CiceroCat2> Nonny, are you having problems?
<Jehane> go somewhere else to write, like a park or something
<@SLViehl> or I use my headset
<Nonny2> Yes.
<Nonny2> Now it's working.
<@SLViehl> Nonny, you're still with us
<Nonny2> yes.
<Nonny2> Sorry, computer trouble.
<moonpowered> go to an art museum and look at renaissance art
<Fredrick Obermeyer> If you're stuck, take a long walk or a shower
<@SLViehl> Katherine, have you ever tried the speaking software? It's pretty neat
<@SLViehl> I do all kinds of dialogue with it now
<Nonny2> And then it tried to tell me I was CC. O.o
<Robert> Or google on rennie art between scenes
<Katherine> The art suggestion even counts as worldbuilding.
<CiceroCat2> lol
<CiceroCat2> nonny my doppleganger is a identity stealer
<Robert> Botticelli wallppaer on your computer
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Katherine?
<Nonny2> Your what?
<CiceroCat2> yeah work on world building if you like that
<CiceroCat2> or draw maps
<Fredrick Obermeyer> If you use MS word, post possible plot avenues after you finish the day's writing
<CiceroCat2> or pictures of hte characters
<@SLViehl> Music, art, any new sources of inspiration. Kill some people. Don't worry about the road ahead.
<Katherine> Maps are easy: it's Venice.
<CiceroCat2> find people who look like your characters and cut them out
<@SLViehl> Kill some people in the book, I mean
<@SLViehl> lol
<Robert> Andrea Boccelli tapes and CDs
<CiceroCat2> lol sheila
<Robert> La Donna e Mobile...
<Katherine> Let the mayhem begin!
<@SLViehl> All right, thanks to all -- Nonny, you're up, and then we're going to wrap this session for the night
<moonpowered> have something really funny happen - comic relief
<Robert> Yeah! remember why you love it and put yourself in the mood!
<Nonny2> Thanks.
<Katherine> Thanks for the encouragement, everyone!
<Nonny2> OK -- my main character is a princess, she has two sisters, and their palace is raided.
<Nonny2> The MC escapes, but the younger sister is raped.
<Nonny2> This is kind of a medical question.
<CiceroCat2> k
<Nonny2> The sister ends up "broken" and the MC has to take her to an island where the Priestesses will care for her.
<Nonny2> I need to know how this sort of person (the sister) would act.
<CiceroCat2> broken mentally?
<Nonny2> She doesn't talk or anything.
<Nonny2> Yes.
<CiceroCat2> hmm... she'd feel she was at fault
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Suicidal
<Robert> Numb, dull, obedient, scared of everything.
<Nonny2> Would she be able to feed herself, etc.
<CiceroCat2> be numb, be depressed
<Nonny2> Exactly what Robert says.
<@SLViehl> How old is the rape victim?
<CiceroCat2> she'd fear men
<Nonny2> Um, about 15.
<CiceroCat2> she'd fear everyone but her sister
<Nonny2> Her sister is 17.
<Nonny2> They are legally adults at 15.
<Katherine> Phobic about things that cause flashbacks.
<Nonny2> Would it be believable for her not to talk?
<@SLViehl> First, she would not want to be touched. By anyone. And would struggle with anyone who tries to touch her.
<Jehane> she'd feel extremely helpless
<CiceroCat2> no one way is definite in this case, i believe
<Robert> And afraid of offending people.
<CiceroCat2> dirty
<CiceroCat2> she'd feel dirty too , i think
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Rape victims often blame themselves, even though it's not their fault
<Nonny2> It gets worse -- she ends up pregnant.
<@SLViehl> She would ignore her personal hygiene and hide if allowed
<CiceroCat2> she may try to kill herself and the baby or the baby alone
<moonpowered> she might want to become a priestess herself - to escape from society
<@SLViehl> suicidal tendencies among young rape victims are common
<Jehane> she would probably try and get rid of the baby
<Katherine> Unable to talk seems unlikely, but is certainly possible. Much depends on the details of the assault.
<Anne_Marble> Do the men who raped her look different from the men in her culture? She might fear men with that type of hair color or clothing
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Would she seek revenge
<Jehane> unable to talk or refusing to talk?
<CiceroCat2> she may try to repress it-- try to believe it never happened
<Nonny2> Hmm, hadn't thought of that, but no, the men who raped her were their own Palace guards.
<Nonny2> Refusing to talk.
<Nonny2> No she wouldn't seek revenge.
<@SLViehl> Anything that reminds her of the assault would trigger an episode of reaction, irrational behavior
<Nonny2> That's the MC's job.
<CiceroCat2> god, trust issue then
<Nonny2>
<Robert> Suicidal can flip rappidly to homicidal without warning, esp. against men.
<CiceroCat2> major trust issue
<Katherine> A lot depends on her culture. How important is Maidenly Virtue, for instance.
<CiceroCat2> especially of any guard type people
<Nonny2> She was very meek and timid before the rape.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> She might take offense against her sister for not being the one who was violated and take it out on her
<Nonny2> Very important, Katherine.
<Anne_Marble> Maybe seeing people in uniforms reminds her and makes her go catatonic or something
<@SLViehl> rape victims often blames themselves for being raped, so she would suffer from guilt and shame
<Jehane> if her rapist repeatedly told her to shut up before he raped her, she might now refuse to talk
<Nonny2> Oh, I like that, Jehane.
<CiceroCat2> she may try to make herself look ugly
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Is it physical rape or another kind? Magic rape?
<CiceroCat2> so that she culdn't "attract" anyone again if tha'ts her mindest
<Nonny2> Physical.
<CiceroCat2> mindest = mindset
<Anne_Marble> An incest victim in a mystery I read gained weight in an attempt to get her father to stop
<Robert> Ack. I am having trouble selecting to copy and paste for transript.
<moonpowered> she might try to escape from everyone. go hide in the hills.
<@SLViehl> I'll send you a copy of mine, Robert
<CiceroCat2> she would fear intimacy with men -- fear romantic relationsihps and might never want to have sex again
<Fredrick Obermeyer> The Accused with Jodie Foster
<Robert> Sorry it's crashing.
<@SLViehl> but this girl is really still a child -- 15 years old.
<Nonny2> Yes.
<Nonny2> Other countries in this world view adults to be around 20.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Could she repress or transfer the memory to her sister,
<Nonny2> How so?
<Nonny2> (transfer I mean)
<CiceroCat2> some girls marry when around that young, in some nations...like in Lackey's novel with Talia
<Nonny2> Yes, the world is kind of like that.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Magic or a ceremony. Maybe out of guilt the MC could take on the pain and believe she was the one who was raped
<CiceroCat2> panic attacks too
<Nonny2> Hmm, that's interesting, but it wouldn't work.
<CiceroCat2> always paranoid maybe?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Why not?
<@SLViehl> If she's just past puberty, she might regress into a childlike state
<Nonny2> The book is basically about the MC's quest to avenge her sister's rapes.
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Oh
<CiceroCat2> that's a good idea shiela
<Katherine> Or the victim could transfer the memory. Remember it happening to someone else because having it happen to her is too horrible.
<Nonny2> Oh -- forgot something that might be important.
<@SLViehl> that way, she doesn't have to deal with being an adult
<CiceroCat2> or if she was carefree and lighthearted, she may be very serious and restrained
<Nonny2> The sister also watched the raiders kill her father and rape and murder their pregnant mother.
<@SLViehl> ouch
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Angry. Definitely angry
<@SLViehl> this is severe trauma -- whatever you do, Nonny, this kid is going to be a mess
<Katherine> wince That makes serious post-traumatic stress much more likely.
<CiceroCat2> maybe she'd want to avoid her sister, thinking her sister thought she wasn't trying hard enough to get away or wanted it (this would be irrational thoughts on teh victim's behalf)
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Did the MC see it too or just the sister?
<Robert> Anger, fear, despair, hatred, all interchangeable mood swings.
<moonpowered> maybe the priestess can remove the memory from the victim and give it to the sister. the sister's sacrifice.
<Nonny2> No, the MC managed to hide in a secret room she knew of.
<@SLViehl> Time -- any last comments, suggestions for Nonny?
<Fredrick Obermeyer> So there's resentment
<Nonny2> The only reason she managed to get there was because she was nearly raped herself, but by one of the palace guests.
<CiceroCat2> she may just shut down completely, and her sister has to tend to every need
<CiceroCat2> like feeding her, like she's catatonic
<Nonny2> Exactly what I was thinking, CC.
<Nonny2> What would have to be done with that?
<Nonny2> Exactly.
<Nonny2> Any medical info on that?
<@SLViehl> I would do some research on young rape victims -- as unpleasant as it is, you need to become more familiar with the post traumatic reactions
<Fredrick Obermeyer> Sister would feel betrayed by both the MC and her protectors
<Katherine> Wouldn't surprise me if she ended up with a head injury, too. Which could cause memory loss, among other things.
<CiceroCat2> yeah, that idea fred
<CiceroCat2> bad dreams -- lots of flashbcks
<Nonny2> Yeah.
<@SLViehl> You can find a lot on the web, Nonny. Also check out books on treating the victims of rape at your local library
<Nonny2> OK.
<Nonny2> Thank you all!
<@SLViehl> Thanks to all for your suggestions, and that wraps up this session of the Think Tank
<CiceroCat2> will she be able to carry the baby full term? or will there be complications?
<Robert> Night all. Sheila, sorry about the transcript. This got so scrambly. Thanks for a great workshop!
<Nonny2> Yes, I think she would carry it full term.
<Nathan> Bye all
<Nonny2> I don't know on that, though.
<Nonny2> I haven't really thought that far ahead.
<Jehane> Thanks Sheila
<CiceroCat2> thanks for this sheila, this was great and time just FLIES
<Jehane> bye Nathan
<@SLViehl> For you new follks, we're here every Friday night, so please come back and join us
<CiceroCat2> and thanks again everyone
<Nonny2> Thanks Sheila.
<moonpowered> thanks everyone! sweet dreams!
<@SLViehl> night nathan
<Robert> Email me if you need th e partial transcript. Gnight
<Nonny2> G'night!
<CiceroCat2> k sheila
<@SLViehl> I'm going to make a transcript now, Robert -- thanks again everyone and see you next week!