Pre-Class Rules:  Please don't chat during class.  Please do not post until you see the word QUESTIONS, and stop posting question when you see CLASS.  I'll be glad to discuss any of this material later if there are any questions.

Welcome to Lee Killough's Checking on Culture -- A checklist for Cultural Building, Class 3.  The Killough book is the primary work I've used for this class.  Definitions come from the Random House Webster's College Dictionary.

Lee Killough has several books available from Meisha Merlin Press: Blood Walk and Blood Games, Bridling Chaos, and the upcoming Wilding Nights.  You can find more information on these books here: http://www.meishamerlin.com

You can also learn more about Lee Killough and contact her through her AuthorsDen website at: http://www.authorsden.com/leekillough

Lee Killough's book, Checking on Culture, is available.  Anyone who wishes to can order this little gem by sending $5.00 plus $3.00 for postage and postage materials:

Lee Killough/PO Box 1167/Manhattan KS 66505-1167 (Be sure to tell her it is for Checking on Culture.)

Class one and two covered Part One of the material.  Today we'll start on Part two which will take at least three or more classes as well.

Part Two: Community Interaction

The appearance of settled communities is a sign that a group has reached a certain level of 'civilization' that includes cooperation of large assemblages (from a few dozen to several thousand or more) for the betterment of the whole.

In order to cooperate with one another, any collection of people -- whether settled or nomadic -- must have a few things in common.  Primary among them is language and common laws or customs.

Life takes a drastic change when people abandon hunting/gathering and settle down.  The first communities are very small. Cities did not spring up over night.  However, for various reasons people find good reasons to join together.

Permanent settlements allow for a diversity of occupations.  When the level of subsistence is dependent upon how much food one can gather in a day (Hunter-Gatherer groups), then there will not be time for little else like sophisticated art.

When a people join together (sometimes for mutual defense against another group), they expand not only what they need, but what they can afford to support as well. Specialized work forces develop.

Groups may divide into guards, day laborers (sometimes working the fields outside the settlement), a growing priesthood, and artists.  People may be employed strictly in 'support' roles, providing food, clothing, etc. for larger groups.

Sedentary populations give better protection to the weak, injured, and old, which allows for an overall longer lifespan. However, at the same time they make themselves susceptible to communicable diseases.

QUESTIONS

• @zette-- This is just an intro to more detailed material.
• Nonny-- Sorry I'm late!
• Robert-- Got ya. Interesting that division of labor usually also begins serious class struggles...
• @zette-- No problem.  Just started.  Go ahead and read through and we'll go on.  Let me know when you're ready, Nonny.
• Nonny-- Just finished reading the transcripts, and the clock on the main page said it was 8:50 ... it lied.
• Nonny-- OK.
• Nonny-- Finished reading it.
• @zette-- Okay, on we go!

CLASS

1. Language 

Definition: Language A body of words and the systems for their use common to a people of the same community or nation, the same geographical area, or the same cultural tradition. 

Killough:  Not being a linguist, I made no pretensions of constructing a real language for my people, but I do give them an alpha bet and some vocabulary because inevitably I need words for untranslatable concepts, objects and animals and I want the words and alien names to sound related....

...If necessary I modify the alphabet to my alien's vocal apparatus.  Anatomy again!  Some mouths cannot make human sounds.  Imagine a dog, with its un-pursable lips, trying to say 'too' or 'when.'

Zette: The first need of any population is a way to communicate with one another.  This becomes even more important when they begin to form larger communities, and can no longer get by with a few signs.

When two groups interact, there lack of a common language can be the first step to disaster.  However, remember that if two peoples share a common border, they are also going to share some common words.

Lines on a map or passable streams and rivers do not confine language -- especially if you have established trade routes.  Oceans, deserts, and mountains -- and entire star systems -- are better impediments. 

However, bear in mind that there are two entirely different species of squirrels living on opposite sides of the Grand Canyon.  You can invent very unusual reasons why your groups have different languages.

Also, very many words can seep into a language through an unexpected source -- slaves.  Slave women often raised the young children of the richer element of the community and inadvertently infiltrated foreign words into the language.

Slaves might also introduce new farming techniques and tools, bringing new words (as well as ideas) into a settlement.  Anything that improves the life of the larger group will likely be kept, including the words.

Also remember that accents, even when using the same words, can make something nearly incomprehensible. This proved true in much of England, where a person living twenty miles away was considered a foreigner.

Our lives are so conditioned by words that it may be impossible for us to experience something we do not have a word for.   We think in words, so the larger a person's vocabulary, the more of the world that person can experience.

Therefore, words reflect the culture from which they come.  If two cultures overlap, usually through invasion, you can find yourself with strange combinations.

Place names can reflect either an older city by the original name, or a new city, founded by the invaders.  There can also be a dichotomy in the names of items between peasant and aristocracy.  For instance, Anglo-Saxon peasant raised cattle, but the Norman lords ate beef. 

Creating a language for world building can be fun, but don't let the material take over the story so much that it is impossible for a non-native to understand what's going on.

A very good example of how to properly use more than one language in a book is C.J. Cherryh's Hunter of Worlds.

Creating slang is a difficult aspect of language.  It can often look really stupid when first introduced in a book, but with care can be worked into a story in such a way that it looks natural.

Humor is nearly entirely based within the culture, and jokes may not translate not only from one language to another, but from one culture to another.  They can be very good starting points for someone working into a new culture to suddenly show an awareness that she does understand.

QUESTIONS

• Nonny-- On slang -- does slang work better if it is a slightly altered version of our own?
• Robert-- That's deep. It sounds like the untranslatable concepts are the best ones for establishing your original culture ideas!
• @zette-- Sometimes.  It just depends on the circumstances.
• Anon_81-- sorry I'm late
• Robert-- The thing you put in the book that took a paragraphs description, becomes shorthand in one word like "grok" or whatever.
• @zette-- Really, you just want to create something that fits.  In a story I'm working on now, I have a sea-bred alien call people from the stars 'sand' because they'd heard that they are so numerous.
• Nonny-- Would bordering countries use the same language, or would the two languages overlap. Or perhaps there would be a third language known by many?
• Kay-- Zette, do you need a transcriber, or would I just be wasting my time?
• Nonny-- Cool, Zette!
• Dani-- Some cultures are militant about not importing foreign words into their vocabulary, too.
• Robert-- Ooh neat, Zette
• Kay-- You mean like the French?
• @zette-- Often the two languages overlap, but the closer to one border the more it will be in their language.
• karenth-- "le weekend"
• Dani-- And don't the Japanese keep a whole set of characters just for writing loan-words?
• Kay-- Pas "le car"  vous dites "voiture!"
• Julia-- the more dominant language tends to force its words/ideas on the less-dominant one, I think
• Nonny-- Hmm ... what about a trade language that most people, mainly merchants and the lower classes, know?
• @zette-- What is it -- Alsace Lorraine that is either French or German, depending on who happens to have won what particular war -- and the language is pretty much both?
• Nonny-- I know that's been done before, though.
• Dani-- Are there any cultures that only have written and not spoken language?
• @zette-- Trade languages are good.  Latin was a trade language to most of the empire. So was Greek at one time.
• Robert-- There's an old PBS special "Story of English" that pointed out English and Swahili were the two largest languages, being trade languages.
• Kay-- I think you're right Zette!
• CiceroCat-- were the pictographs spoken?
• @zette-- Some cultures write in one language and speak in another.
• karenth-- Sanskrit...was that spoken?
• Dani-- Cool, Zette!
• Kay-- English grows because it welcomes accretions of all kinds.
• Robert-- Swahili too - and that it had absorbed literally hundreds of others on the way.
• @zette-- Sanskrit was spoken at one time.  Pictographs are signs -- pictures.  It didn't matter what language you spoke, as long as you knew what the signs meant.
• @zette-- We do the same thing with 'one way street' symbols, etc.
• Nonny-- Huh. That could be useful to remember ...
• @zette-- I can't keep up!
• Dani-- Didn't some written languages develop for accounting purposes only initially?
• CiceroCat-- ah
• Julia-- (reaches down to keep zette from drowning)
• CiceroCat-- lol
• @zette-- Written language has very little to do with the development of spoken language.  Sometimes it develops for 'accounting' and sometimes for religious reasons.
• Kevin-- or maybe to keep historical records
• @zette-- Okay, what questions did I miss?
• Kay-- do you need a transcriber?
• @zette-- Yes, historical records, too.  Once a Dynasty begins, they want records of their family -- and especially their family lines.
• Nonny-- Wasn't the Bible originally written in Latin and kept that way in Europe so the common people, who couldn't read Latin, wouldn't be able to read the Bible? Or am I misremembering my history here?
• @zette-- Transcriber?  For what?
• Kay-- this class, or are you getting it yourself? 
• Gayle-- that's correct nonny
• @zette-- Oh!  Duh!  Yes, please copy it.  That way if I get dropped out because of storm, one of us might have it.
• Kay-- okay.  No duh -- you're concentrating on substance!
• @zette-- Yes, you are right on the Bible, Nonny.
• @zette-- The big change in religion came when people began translations.  Wycliffe?  Is that one of the first?
• Nonny-- I wouldn't know, Zette.
• @zette-- At least for the English language, that is.
• Gayle-- yes it was ONE of the first
• @zette-- That's what I thought.  Thanks, Gayle.
• Kay-- Also, church was a repository for marriage contracts and other legal writings.  Getting IT (the Magna Carta) in writing from King John was a BIGGIE, but language is important for land contracts written language that is.
• @zette-- Also, the King James Bible had a profound influence on the English language.
• Robert-- That has great plot possibilities if you show characters that read the original and characters that only know the slanted translation.
• Nonny-- Ooh, yeah, Robert.
• Kay-- true, Zette, especially coming right after Shakespeare as it did
• Dani-- Language can be used to exclude certain groups of society (like jargon).
• @zette-- But Shakespeare was only seen by a few, so the KJB had a far large impact.
• Kay-- true!
• @zette-- Shall we go on?   A short section next.
• Nonny-- Sure!
• Julia-- ok
• Dani-- yup
• Gayle-- the King James Bible unified the English translations of the time

CLASS

2. Gestures

Definition: A movement or position of the hand, arm body, head or face that is expressive of an idea, option, emotion. Etc. 2.  The use of such movements to express through, emotion, etc.

Killough:  Every culture has its particular body language.  Among humans smiles and frowns are almost universal gestures, understood even across language barriers, but other gestures vary.

Humans hold no monopoly on gestures, though. Animals use body language, too. The position of the tails and ears indicated aggressions, submission, friendliness...

Zette: Just a few quick notes on gesture.  It can become such an intricate part of a person's language that they can hardly talk with out the appropriate movement of hands or other body signals.

Watch people driving cars -- quite often they cannot talk to the person beside them without the hand movements.

A culture that is heavily dependent on gesture as well as spoken language will be severely hampered in anything but face-to-face meetings, as well as in the dark.

QUESTIONS

• Robert-- Oooh yeah! Big point!
• Dani-- LOL, that's so true about cars
• Kevin-- any insights as to how such gestures develop over time?
• Robert-- I just realized how scary that would be from a reserved person who usually speaks without gesture, to someone from a more gestural culture.
• Nonny-- Like, if half the language is spoken and the other half is through gestures?
• @zette-- Just common understanding, I would assume.
• Robert-- When I was in seventh grade I caught myself making some gesture most of the kids in school did and that startled me.
• Nonny-- Are there societies that have that?
• Nonny-- Robert-- Just as long as it wasn't obscene.
• Kay-- Just think how we so often use emoticons in chat, for example!
• Robert-- It wasn't.
• CiceroCat-- lol robert, nonny
• Gayle-- I know that when I came back to the states after living in Italy for over two years I used hand gestures a lot more than most Americans
• @zette-- I've read that some American Indian tribes were very gesture-orientated, and created some problems.
• CiceroCat-- oh yeah, Kay, I use them tons
• Robert-- Body distance comfort zone varies between cultures too.
• Julia-- wasn't sign language often used in trade?
• CiceroCat-- ooh, I remember seeing a hand sign on the movie Pocahontas
• Robert-- Americans "crowd" me often and when I meet English people and some others, they don't.
• @zette-- Yes, sign language -- which is language, not gesture -- was often used in trade.
• Nonny-- Oh yes, Robert.
• Nonny-- That's a good point.
• Julia-- ::makes mental note of difference::
• Robert-- I've often also startled people who thought they were way better than me with a firm handshake like equals.
• Dani-- When you know someone well, I guess you get a better 'reading' of their gestures. Can understand smaller 'shorthand' gestures and movements.
• Kevin-- in a way gestures are almost like a subtext to language
• Kay-- There was a good spot in the Secret Texts when that cousin realized that how she held her ears changed the meaning of what she was SAYING
• @zette-- Exactly.  By the way, slave languages often had a lot of non-verbal language/gestures.
• Nonny-- Or how when you use gestures to indicate sarcasm or the reverse of what you're saying.
• Nonny-- Like when little kids cross their fingers behind their backs.
• Nonny-- Or when someone makes quote marks in the air.
• CiceroCat-- or when a guy punches his fist in his hand
• Dani-- Gestures have a lot in common with superstitions (evil eye etc.)
• Robert-- Yep. Or to express status. When I did shake hands with people who thought they ranked me because I was poor and they had jobs, their reaction was that they just didn't clasp my hand and looked awkward and terrified.
• CiceroCat-- or the finger across the throat thingy
• Nonny-- Ooh yeah, CC.
• @zette-- Right.  So consider gesture when you are writing.  It can give more meaning to the words spoken -- but it's hard to do in words.

CLASS

3. Non-sedentary groups (Nomads)

Definition: (Nomad): a member of a people that has no permanent abode but moves from place to place along a traditional circuit in search of pasturage or food.

Zette:  This is my own addition to the list.  Not all people will live in villages, towns or cities.  Nomads have a long history on Earth.  They are often prevalent in areas where resources are poor.

Nomad riches are not the same as riches of a settled group.  Everything must be portable, and that his why furniture tends to be carpet and pillows, homes tents, etc. 

But don't overlook that gold is heavy, and an excess of any 'small' riches can start to bulk.  A person's wealth my well be counted in sheep, cattle, horses -- things that can move themselves.

Slaves, however, take food away from the group rather than adding to it.  It is unlikely that a nomadic tribe would have more than a few slaves who might help herd.

When these regular migrations of nomads include flocks, the people sometimes seeded fields in one area before they head out for the season, so that their sheep or cattle had grazing land when they come back at the proper time of year.

Rights over grazing areas can cause disputes, not only between nomads and townspeople, but also between different groups of nomads, especially at times when climate reduces the viable areas.

Nomads can be part of modern society as well.  Migrant workers are a form of modern nomads.  They travel from field to field from planting to harvesting.  With no settlement of their own, they are often at the mercy of locals. They are not part of the community.

Consider, if you have a group of this type, that migrant workers may have an entirely different culture, language, religion and festivals. These are all hot points for conflict.

They may also have a vastly different set of codes of conduct and laws, which further alienate them from the settlements.  Also, there is no reason why there can't be more than one nomadic group, vying for the same work, grazing grounds, etc.

QUESTIONS

• CiceroCat-- ooh this is important for me, cause I have a Roving tribe in my novel I plan....
• Kay-- Excellent point about migrant workers, Zette.
• CiceroCat-- would a group (tribe) that goes from a summer home to a winter home, would that still be nomadic?
• Nonny-- I have a couple, too, CC, but I don't know how prevalent they will be.
• Kevin-- yes, good addition to the list
• Dani-- Can nomads be part of the mainstream culture that chooses to live nomadically, like a subset?
• Robert-- There may be other economic reasons for nomadic life, right? Like the traveling troubadours?
• Nonny-- I would think so, CC.
• @zette-- They are semi-nomadic, CC.
• CiceroCat-- mine are very role oriented--everyone must do their job....
• @zette-- But generally, that's just considered Nomadic.
• CiceroCat-- troubadour?
• Julia-- entertainer, CC
• karenth-- the non-tribal nomadic
• @zette-- Nomads are entire tribes, Robert. 
• Kay--  Also excellent point about grazing rights conflict -- see use of western government lands.  Also, questions about water rights can be very key, where water is and isn't and how it's returned to the stream or not.
• CiceroCat-- ok, zette --  thnx julia
• Kevin-- would nomads have class divisions or divisions of labor you think?
• Nonny-- What about a society of shapeshifters that travel like a pack of wolves from place to place depending on the weather -- would that be nomadic?
• Robert-- Medieval minstrels, jongleurs and troubadours were very nomadic and moved constantly, playing in different castles and towns. One author, when added to a gypsy like tribe, made that part of the mixed sex permanent custom.
• @zette-- Not as much division as in a settlement, Kevin.
• Kevin-- ok
• @zette-- From what I've seen, warriors are as apt to be out herding the sheep as fighting, for instance.
• CiceroCat-- ah
• Kay-- and a good thing, too, unless we want the wolves to get our little lambs
• Nonny-- .
• CiceroCat-- lol kay
• Kevin-- are gypsies nomads or more akin to troubadours, etc.?
• Crista-- Would you say that the gender divisions in a nomadic group are less rigid than in a settlement?
• Robert-- That might also apply in outer space, where any physical resources are scarce.
• @zette-- Individuals are not considered nomads as they travel from place to place.  Troupes of entertainers are not nomads, because they do not follow a set of passages from one place to another, in set motion, for year after year.  Some might, but as a whole, they went wherever they thought they could find work.
• CiceroCat-- so would this work in all types of environments?  From like Alaska areas to deserts to plains?
• @zette-- No less rigid, Crista.  It depends on the culture, though.
• Nonny-- What would they be then, Zette, if they aren't nomads?
• CiceroCat-- travellers?
• @zette-- Entertainers traveling from city to city.
• karenth-- vagabonds?
• Nonny-- Would the Gypsies count as a nomadic culture, even though they were essentially wandering entertainers?
• Robert-- When you brought in the migrant workers, zette, that's what made me think of minstrels and today's people whose primary occupation is fairs, festivals and conventions. They do travel a circuit, all know each other and share a common traveling lifestyle, somewhat generationally.
• @zette-- Crista -- Arab women, in ancient times, went into battle. But when Islam took over, they were segregated.  Culture, then was the key, not just the act of being a nomad.
• Nonny-- Cool, Zette, I didn't know that!
• CiceroCat-- neat zette!
• Gayle-- also Celtic women too
• karenth-- interesting!
• Robert-- Cool! I didn't know that either, Zette! Knew it about Celtic women.
• @zette-- Hmmm... you know, if there are large groups, including family wealth, belongings, travel from place to place, they would be nomads.
• @zette-- If, however, the men traveled to find work, and the women stayed in villages, they are not nomadic.
• Robert-- Hard core "Rennies" sort of fit that bill, zette.
• Crista-- Okay, another question in that vein. Would women in a nomadic culture be expected to produce more or less offspring than in a settlement?
• Kay-- Let me see if I can get this:  Nomads have asserted a certain dominion over the foothills in fall, the river lands in summer returning later to their winter place, but they have set routes and assert transient ownership.
• @zette-- It is the entire movement of a clan, etc. makes a nomad.
• @zette-- Yes, Kay!
• @zette-- Probably less, Crista.  Limited resources.
• CiceroCat-- so were the Native Americans only semi nomadic (the plains ones)
• Robert-- So my space Nomads, who live on their ships and trade along a trade route between star systems, are true nomads.
• Kay-- Traveling salesmen, troubadours, etc, would vary their rout according to their own trade.  They are specialists, and they carry their specialty to where it's needed. 
• @zette-- And it depends on the death at birth rate, as well.
• Kay-- Nomads are tribal and generalists and rove over a wide terrain of land that they feel ownership over on a seasonal basis.
• @zette-- Traveling salesmen were solitary.  They usually did not take their entire family -- that means more than wife and kids -- with them from place to place.
• Nonny-- So, for example, a group of related mercenaries who traveled from place to place in search of work would *not* be nomads?
• CiceroCat-- actually, I think mine might be semi nomadic at best--more like, a selection roves around a city of the tribe and a capital of all the tribes
• @zette-- No, they would be mercenaries.  (grin)
• CiceroCat-- if the had a back up home--in case of attack or emergency-- is that still nomadic?
• Nonny-- lol, Zette. I mean, husbands and wives, parents and children.
• Kay-- My understanding is the same as Zette's
• Robert-- The line being whether they raised kids on the road and did not have a permanent settlement
• @zette-- Not nomads if they have a home.
• CiceroCat-- k
• @zette-- They are wanderers.  Mercenaries, etc. 
• Nonny-- If they don't have a set home, they would be nomads?
• @zette-- Now they might come from a nomad group, but the group they are with is not nomadic.
• Kay--  CC it sounds like yours might be sort of in transition from being nomads to being NOT nomads, and there's no law that says transitions can't happen
• @zette-- If they are bringing all their clan with them, they're nomads.
• Kay-- or some of them might be in transition
• @zette-- Transition is an important point.
• CiceroCat-- cool Kay
• Nonny-- Because this culture teaches both male and female children to fight at the age of three, and the whole clan hires out in the fighting season, but they have to travel to find work -- they would be nomads, correct?
• @zette-- Where are the rest of the clan?  Does the clan have a town where they teach the children?  They are not nomads.
• Nonny-- Semi-nomadic?
• karenth-- I see five year old assassins...
• Nonny-- LOL Karen!
• Robert-- In fantasy you could have other reasons why they migrate - the swan related people might still migrate seasonally and not adapt to agriculture but trade with agricultural peoples.
• Nonny-- That could make for an interesting story ...
• Dani-- nice, Robert
• Jim-- But if they have a camp that moves now and then and part of the people go out to find work or food, then they're nomads. Right?
• CiceroCat-- yup Robert, interesting
• Robert-- hehe more depth world building on the still unwritten little short story...
• Jim-- Even if they only move a couple times a year?
• @zette-- I am taking the word in a very strict sense.  People in books can be called whatever you like, of course -- but you need to understand the strict definitions.
• CiceroCat-- ah I think I see what if Jim is saying--like how much time they spend in a place?  Like a season would make them semi nomadic? 
• Robert-- They would - just a couple times a year.
• @zette-- Most nomads do move seasonally, so that works.
• CiceroCat-- ah
• Kevin-- they probably just move wherever the resources are most plentiful and available, seasonal or not
• CiceroCat-- hmmm, definitely getting my muse fired on the nomads  
• Kay-- They have a history of knowing where grass will be green at a certain time of the year and they go there so their herds can graze.
• @zette-- Let me see if I can lay this out.  An entire tribe moves from winter pastures to summer pastures. They are nomadic.  A group of men go off to fight in wars, wandering from place to place. They are not nomadic. They did not bring their entire tribe with them.
• Kay-- Matches what I was taught exactly, Zette.
• @zette-- They may be called nomads in a vague sense, of course. We use words to indicate an action that isn't exactly the definition of the term, but they are not literally nomads.
• CiceroCat-- so, the whole tribe moves  = nomadic
• Julia-- I gotcha
• CiceroCat-- if a portion stays behind = semi at best
• @zette-- Right!
• Robert-- So if my fantasy troubadours start living in gypsy like carts and bring wives and kids on the circuit, that's transition to nomadic. Due to stable circuit of fairs etc.
• @zette-- Right, Robert.
• Nonny-- That makes sense.
• Robert-- That would also include the old people who aren't able to perform any more and anyone disabled and the dog.
• @zette-- Depends on how they treat their infirm.
• @zette-- But yes, you are right.
• @zette-- Nomads bring their 'villages' with them wherever they go.
• CiceroCat-- the ... dog?
• Nonny-- Dog!? Don't you mean cat?
• Robert-- Many nomadic cultures including gypsies have dogs and they guard the camp.
• CiceroCat-- so they're likely to live in things that do not take much time to break down or too heavy to carry -- unless they have wagons?
• @zette-- Okay, on to another section.
• CiceroCat-- ah, Robert--- oh yes, I remember a movie with Pitt in  it like that

CLASS 

4.Towns

Definition: A thickly populated area, usually smaller than a city and larger than a village, having fixed boundaries and certain local powers and government.

Killough:  ... do they group those houses into villages or cities?  If so, what do the villages look like? Are they laid out in a grid?  Or a circular or U shape?  If U shaped, as many African villages are, which direction does the open end face?

...In 'Deadly Silents' the range of the egarad telepathy and the number of mental contacts they could tolerate shaped their cities and village-sized neighborhood groupings separated by belts of woodlands and fields.

Zette:  Certain steps need to be taken before a people can create a settlement. First, they (almost always) need to have domesticated a food source -- usually both animal and plant.

There are a few areas that are so rich that a settled people can live off the land without relying on domestication -- but they remain relatively small settlements.  Too many people in one area will strip even the most abundant region.

A change of climate may be one reason people resort to domestication.  If the areas where they previously foraged can no longer support them, they may turn fully to domestication of plants.

People must have a reason to form permanent settlements.  Usually that means that they will do better as a group than as individuals, and that they will do better in a single location than in roaming.

Part of the reason may be the need to clear fields in order to plant the newly domesticated crops.   Also, this begins specialization.  The people clearing and tilling the field will need others to make their tools, at the very least.

Domesticated plants and animals are vulnerable to predation, both in animal and human form.  Harvested crops, stored within the village, are also tempting targets. 

Night guards may find themselves doing the work full time rather than working in the fields.  They would have to still be fed, and will be paid with some share of the overall crop.

Sometimes a semi-nomadic group has a created a settlement before they have domestication to support it.  This can happen with groups that travel along known paths from one area to another, and stay some place for a season before moving back to another. 

They may have built crude villages to live in at their 'winter' camp. Many nomadic groups knew about domestication, often by accident.  It may be that the first domestication happened in refuse piles, where seeds germinated.

When creating a town you can't just drop a bunch of buildings into an area and name the streets. First of all, towns need to be in a position where they can support the population.

Many towns grew up on streams and rivers because the waterways not only provided needed drinking water for the population, but also for fishing to help feed them, and an easy medium for transportation.

Give your settlement a reason for existing, and a way to exist once it is made. Protection of an area of land, crossroads of important trade routes -- the distance it takes for a person to travel from one spot to another in a day will usually find a small village, or a caravansary along the road.

A town placed on the edge of a fertile valley, with income and food supplies dependent upon it, will have problems if the crops are hit by blight.  Not only will they their ability to feed their own population, but they also can't use the surplus crop to buy other foods.

QUESTIONS

• Robert-- Can crossroads create towns? Just because those are major roads?
• karenth-- railroad boomtowns
• @zette-- I think I said crossroads in there somewhere.  Crossroads are often spots for at least small villages, if not larger.
• Kevin-- people on the roads would want refreshment, rest, entertainment, etc
• @zette-- Yes, that's a good point, Karenth.
• Kay-- But it will depend somewhat on the level of the culture, and there MUST be a way to get WATER there
• @zette-- That's where the caravansary spots started growing up into villages, Kevin.  The distance a traveler might make in one day.
• CiceroCat-- I guess if they found gold in a place or something, a town might grow up?
• Dani-- Barracks towns, mining towns, university towns
• @zette-- Good point Kay.  And all of those are good ones, too Dani.
• @zette-- Towns grow for any number of reasons, but they all have to have some ways to support their population.
• Robert-- Whether it stuck or dried up like the boomtowns would depend on whether there were local resources after the windfall gold gave out.
• CiceroCat-- ah
• @zette-- That means larger towns, and university towns, etc., have to have a way to bring in water and food, at the very least.
• Robert-- Oooh, so in a fantasy world, "the place where the magic comes from" would be as good an economic reason for a town to grow.
• CiceroCat-- outlying farms?
• @zette-- I'm not going to go on to the next section, which is government, so let's talk about this.
• CiceroCat-- neat Robert
• Dani-- Towns on small islands have interesting supply problems
• karenth-- world navel as settlement...cool, Robert
• @zette-- Farms can supply a town, and will.  But the level of agriculture limits the size of the town.
• @zette-- The better the agricultural development, the larger the town can grow.
• CiceroCat-- don't people naturally congregate anyway?   People are social animals....
• CiceroCat-- they're used to living in groups...
• karenth-- sure, cc.  But you gotta have resources
• @zette-- They're used to living in groups for protection in prehistoric times, but they did not build towns.
• Kevin-- and protection from outside threats is an impetus too
• CiceroCat-- hmmm, lol that reminds me of a problem a nearby town is having--it's dying and no  one wants to merge with it
• Kay-- And a large omnivore, like homo sapiens, requires a certain amount of space
• CiceroCat-- ah
• @zette-- Towns are dependent on technical advances, from domestication to the ability to build.
• CiceroCat-- ah
• Dani-- And different types of farming/food growing take different amounts of space
• @zette-- True, too.
• Robert-- Manatown might use its resources more efficiently because of the energy source.
• CiceroCat-- btw, is there a set number for the different names of uhm settlements... towns, cities, villages?
• @zette-- Villages are smallest group, towns next, cities after that --- I can't remember the exact numbers right off, though.
• CiceroCat-- lol, in that Corwyn and Brand story--they're on top of a node of magic, it effects everything--makes food better, longer lives....
• CiceroCat-- is there anything smaller than a village and still it has a name?  like... hamlet?  I think Brooks used that term
• karenth-- Chronicles Of Amber?
• @zette-- I knew I recognized those names...
• CiceroCat-- oh no lol--I keep forgetting... it's a novel story I'm writing
• @zette-- Yes, that could be right, CC.
• CiceroCat-- I really need to read that chronicle after I finish mine as a treat
• @zette-- Checking a book, hold on a second.
• Kay-- check the census -- it might have some guidelines, or the national league of cities
• CiceroCat-- oh and another question kinda related--- I don't understand what a city-state is....
• Robert-- I think the numbers got larger the later in history? Things now called villages would've been mega cities a few centuries ago?
• CiceroCat-- shoot, I just thought---it also depends on the time of the story doesn't?  Ancient times, might have it different than more modern......
• Julia-- city that is its own autonomous governmental entity = city-state, I think
• @zette-- A city state is where a place like Athens -- a city -- controlled a large area of land around them.
• CiceroCat-- lol we're in sync Robert
• Jim-- A city-state is a city that's autonomous.
• Jim-- i.e.: not part of another country.
• CiceroCat-- so... they are a city, they can support themselves, and they have their own government outside of the nations.
• Robert-- My book on London proudly boasted it had 5,000 people and yet today that wouldn't make a township!
• @zette-- They ruled themselves and were not  ruled by a larger 'Greek' government.
• Jim-- Yes... they are a nation in their own right.
• CiceroCat-- lol Robert
• CiceroCat-- k, thnx
• Gayle-- think of the Vatican city...it is also a state/counrty
• @zette-- Yes, the terms do change, Robert.
• CiceroCat-- ah--it might be a good reference to me... thnx gayel
• CiceroCat-- er, Gayle I mean
• Kay-- A city-state is called that to differentiate it from a nation-state, which is the largest current unit of effective government
• Gayle-- your welcome
• CiceroCat-- nation-state?  Like.... is USA that?
• @zette-- hamlet is considered a small village.
• CiceroCat-- thnx zette
• @zette-- By the way, if you want to find words to use for things like this, pick up something like the Random House Word Menu.
• Kay-- yes, USA is a nation state, UK is a nation state, Canada, Brazil, Greece (modern) all nation states.
• CiceroCat-- k-- LOL, I need examples to fully understand things :_)
• Kay-- Athens, Sparta, Thebes in about 5000 BC = city state
• karenth-- (me too, cc!)
• CiceroCat--
• Robert-- What would you call 300 cats all in the same vacant lot?
• Julia-- a mess
• Kay-- a cat fight
• CiceroCat-- community?  clan? 
• CiceroCat-- pride?
• Kay-- disaster
• Julia-- too many
• CiceroCat-- lol
• Gayle-- a ferel population disaster
• Kevin-- arrogance?
• Jim-- smelly.
• karenth-- a passel
• CiceroCat-- lol
• Robert-- I lived a few blocks away from it in San Francisco. G--
• CiceroCat-- oooh, I like that term karenth
• Julia-- dog hunting preserve...
• CiceroCat-- passel
• Kay-- er, Zette, what do you think?
• Dani-- did you take the elephants out first?
• Julia-- lol Dani
• Jim-- a herd? Ever try to herd cats?
• karenth-- : )
• @zette-- village -- often a rural community larger than a hamlet and smaller than a town.
• Julia-- Jim: no, but I saw the commercial
• CiceroCat-- so that's something to consider I guess in the story you create--what size is a village, a town, and so on for your world
• CiceroCat-- is metropolis the next thing up from a city?
• @zette-- Larger the settlement, the more variety of experiences and items are available.
• @zette-- Metropolis is a large or important city.
• CiceroCat-- k
• Kay-- There are actual census standards for what is a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area if anyone cares
• karenth-- "the big apricot"
• CiceroCat-- lol--I always sucked at city building and stuff in Sim City-- I never got mine beyond a village-- too bad my sis has the game and system, it might have given me ideas for the sizes
• @zette-- Megapolis is a very large city or a heavily populated region encompassing several cities.
• CiceroCat-- is that smaller than a metropolis?
• CiceroCat-- oooh ooops
• CiceroCat-- several cities
• CiceroCat-- didn't read beyond lol sorry
• @zette-- I can not type tonight!
• CiceroCat-- lol, you should see me on my worse it looks like--jpqgjpa 
• CiceroCat-- seriously-- I hit the wrong keys where I place my hands
• Gayle-- ((zette))
• CiceroCat-- I like these culture classes   there so interesting....
• @zette-- Ah, here is a point about cities -- they are usually under their own administration and judicial system.  Villages and towns, at least prior to this era, were usually under the control of some other group.
• Jim-- .
• CiceroCat-- hmmm.....
• @zette-- Cities, in fact, were very popular in the Middle Ages, because the people got out from under the direct rule of the Lord of the land.
• Dani-- oh thanks, Zette. Governance can be confusing to create.
• CiceroCat-- neat, I didn't realize that
• @zette-- Getting a right to form a city on a Lord's land was very important.
• Kay-- That would fit well with what I know about the historical development of the common law.  English kings chartered cities, such as York and London
• CiceroCat-- you had to have permission from the ruler of the land?
• @zette-- And they liked to have the cities made, despite the loss of rights, because the cities created different wealth.
• Dani-- Granting a market was supposed to be an important stage in the history of a town, right? So it could grow?
• Dani-- Apparently Scotland only has about 4-5 official cities.
• @zette-- Yes, they did have to have permission to make a city, and granting a market was very important -- but in a slightly different way.
• CiceroCat-- really?
• @zette-- It meant growth of the town, but it also was still under the Lord's control.
• CiceroCat-- that's neat--they didn't allow them to sell their wares in a market without permission?
• CiceroCat-- so did the lord get a cut of the profit, zette?
• CiceroCat-- or taxes or something?
• @zette-- A city made their own laws.  But there charter might agree that they pay the lord or king a certain amount of taxes, or furnish something needed, in order to hold their charter.
• @zette-- Lords and kings got a cut of everything, CC.
• CiceroCat-- ah
• CiceroCat-- lol
• @zette-- That's how they survived.
• karenth-- this is fascinating stuff.
• CiceroCat-- yup
• Julia-- neat
• Kay-- I'm out of my depth here -- Roberta Gellis lists some good research resources on medieval rights on her web site at www.robertagellis.com
• @zette-- Also, lords were apt to set up toll booths along roads to cities.
• CiceroCat-- neat Kay
• @zette-- Nice!  Thank you!
• @zette-- But remember that you can adapt this to modern and future worlds as well.
• Gayle-- thank you Kay
• karenth-- yes, kay
• Kay-- YW all
• CiceroCat-- yup, but it's nice to have a reference---btw, I heard that a lot of fantasy novels (with medieval -base) had way too many towns and cities or at least things like inns and taverns in them
• @zette-- You're probably right, CC.
• CiceroCat-- I remember now after this discussion of an rpg medieval guide for population.... I'll see if I can find it in my b-marks sometime... it's really neat
• Robert-- CC, I think that might relate to whether the background for them was there - a town with a pilgrimage shrine might have a lot.
• @zette-- We actually only got through half the material I intended to cover today, but it looks like we did well enough.