<@zette> And I think it's time to get started!
<Jim> by all means...
<@zette> Okay, to start with, let's look at what a short story is, especially in relation to a novel...
<@zette> This is a general statement, by the way -- it can be adapted and changed.
<@zette> But, a short story is generally an incident, not a history; an adventure, but not an entire quest.
<@zette> One way to define it is to realize that in a short story we do not need to know everything that has happened to the MC. A short story focuses on a defining moment in time, not just an adventure, but the high point of tension in the adventure.
<@zette> MC= Main Character.
<@zette> Argh. Can't get a slide to load now!
<@zette> Are you two here? I'm having problems... (sigh)
<Cailin> I'm here -- and I see the picture fine.
<@zette> Which picture do you have?
<Jim> I'm here.
<Cailin> The chart thingy.
<Jim> simplified plot line for novel.
<@zette> Hmmm... wonder why I can't see it. I'll pull it up in my graphics program...
<@zette> At any rate, this one shows you what might be a plot to a fantasy novel. The MC is born, learns that he has magic abilities...
<@zette> And that's material you need to know as the writer, but you don't need to add any great amount of this to the short story. Short story readers generally expect that 'there are things that went before' that are glossed over.
<@zette> (I can't find the picture!)
<@zette> There. Finally. Does this make sense so far?
<Jim> So far so good. Still the same pic, tho.
<Cailin> So far.
<@zette> That's fine. I haven't changed it yet, even if I can't see it.
<@zette> The trick in writing short stories is to pick your moment in time from a larger story. I could easily write the novel there, but if I was going to do a short story, I'd do something a little different. (Changing picture now... I hope...)
<@zette> Did the picture change?
<Jim> Yes.
<Cailin> Yes.
<@zette> Okay, then this is what you want to look at for a short story -- a moment when there is going to be high tension, quick action, etc.
<@zette> To get to this point, the story might start with (Making this up now, so bear with me) Darian gave up magic when he could not save his own family, but now he faced the loss of the woman he loved, and magic might be the only answer.
<@zette> That's not a great opening line, but you get the idea. We're dropped into the middle of his life, without having to worry about how he got there. We know he has magic and he gave it up because of a great loss. There's really not much more we will need to know, unless something that happened earlier affects what's happening now.
<@zette> There is another type of short story that you might want to consider: An important moment in an otherwise mundane life. The more mundane the life, the less 'exciting' that moment has to be. A mainstream story might focus on the moment when someone takes note of butterflies for the first time.
<@zette> The trick there is to have just enough build up to show how really mundane and dull the person is before this epiphany.
<@zette> But, back to the chart (which I still can't see), just about any of those points would work as a short story. However, the lost love one has the most potential for a stand-alone story.
<@zette> The 'saves world' one is the least likely one to write a short story about, because you need too much build up for a story of that magnitude. It can be done, but that's more likely to be 'novel' material.
<@zette> So the focus is really on a limited amount of time in a life. Though, again, this is not set in stone. Just, when you're first trying to write short stories, this is often the way to make sure they DON'T become novels.
<@zette> Any questions so far?
<Jim> Not yet. You're doing good.
<Damon> um, no Qs, except - this is open membership this evening, isn't it?
<@zette> Thanks, Jim!
<@zette> Yes, open Damon. Welcome!
<@zette> (I wasn't paying attention to the list...)
<Damon> (I'll just sit quietly in the corner)
<@zette> The SFWA guidelines for a short story is 7,499 words or less. Novelette is 7,500 to 17,4999, novella is 17,500 t0 39,999 and novel is 40,000 and up.
<@zette> Many places look for 'short stories' to be up to 10,000 or so words. If you are looking at a special market, be sure and check their guidelines. I have heard that a new author has a better chance of selling a shorter piece, so keep that in mind.
<Cailin> I got disconnected. Did I miss anything?
<@zette> I'm not sure, but it will be in the transcript!
<Damon1> I got disconnected too
<Jim> Me too, but I saved the chat so far.
<@zette> Huh. I wonder what happened!
<@zette> It didn't cut me out, at least.
<@zette> What was the last thing you people saw? The SFWA guidelines?
<Damon1> yes Z
<Jim> yes.
<Cailin> I think mine was on this end, because the person on the computer across from me had the same problem.
<Cailin> I got knocked off before that.
<@zette> Okay. Many places list short stories as up to 10,000 or more words, so if you're looking at a special market to try to sell to, be sure and check what their limits are. Most ezines have much shorter word count limitations.
<Jim> (whew! Thought I'd lost it again.)
<Cailin> I'm trying to ignore that, Jim. My sanity is precarious enough as it is.
<Damon1> one competition I entered said 2000 words max
<@zette> Exactly. I generally don't write for markets, but it's still important to know if you're going to enter something like that.
<@zette> Okay, finding ideas for short stories is the next topic. We're all writers, and I suspect that just about anything will spark a story idea in any of you. It does for me. News, music, history books, etc.
<Damon1> (especially history books)
<@zette> The trick when you find something like this is to not look beyond the prime incident and force yourself to limit the view of the world you are going to write about.
<Jim> Or other works of fiction... "that gives me an idea!"
<Cailin> I had to quit looking at the Tsalagi dictionary because every time I did I'd get ideas cropping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm.
<@zette> I can get ideas looking at leaves on a tree.
<@zette> One way that I do short stories is to imagine a character or incident and 'growing' the story around that first vision.
<Damon M. Lord> are dreams a good source, as they can be so disjointed?
<Cailin> Thank you, Damon - thinking of mushrooms and pineapple at the same time was making me hungry for pizza.
<@zette> I think anything that gives you an idea you an expand on is a good source. Some people have excellent dreams for story fodder.
<Jim> Sure. I keep a notepad by my bed so I can write bits of dreams down.
<Jim> The dream doesn't have to make the whole story, just the seed.
<@zette> I keep my Visor by my bed, but mostly because I don't sleep well, and get a lot of note taking done.
<@zette> The next question is whether or not you want to outline a short story.
<@zette> This depends on the person and the story. I can sit down and write a short story in one rush of words. Those kinds of stories don't need an outline. However, it sometimes helps to have a few notes if it's something that's going to take a few days. I often just note the next steps at the bottom of the story when I stop, so I know where to go next.
<@zette> The one good thing about an outline for short stories is that it can be a limiting agent for what you write. It can help you stay in line, just as it would with a novel.
<Jim> assuming you stick to it. Do you ever find your short story turning into a novel?
<@zette> That can happen, but there's no reason for it to. You can write the short story AND the novel -- the short is a part of a larger story. This is how to extract it from that larger story and help it stand on it's own.
<Damon M. Lord> hmm - reminds me of a story I'm trying to write - every time I start on it - I hack bits off and add it to a novel
<Jim> sort of like selling it twice? once as a short and once as a novel?
<Damon M. Lord> Jim- hey - it worked for Arthur C. Clarke - "2001" and "The Sentinel"
<@zette> Exactly, Jim. I see a lot of novels out with a note saying 'chapter such and such' was first printed in Analog or some such thing.
<Cailin> Can that work in reverse?
<@zette> Learning to write short stories expands your available markets, AND gives you something that can be finished in a far shorter time than a novel.
<@zette> I imagine it can, Cailin, though more often I see short stories based in the same universe as a novel, rather than rewriting part of a published novel as a short.
<Cailin> I have incidents that are interesting and could be expanded, but have to be cut from the novel because they don't push the plot forward. I don't want to just throw them away.
<@zette> There are a few things that you need to think about that can stop you from quickly writing a short story. The first is putting too much time into the background. I haven't done anything more than that chart (if it's still up) on the fantasy novel/short story -- but I could write the short story just from those few points.
<Jim> it's still up.
<Damon M. Lord> I can see it
<@zette> In a short story you are only going to follow a limited amount of time, and you can make everything you need to know on the spot. Don't spend too much time worldbuilding. Get an idea, expand just that idea and very little else.
<@zette> The other things that I see stop people is that they focus on the wrong things. They worry too much over a title or a character name. They'll both come to you when you need them.
<@zette> Titles are even easier to do, sometimes, after you've got a story mostly or entirely written. You might find a theme that works, and look up a keyword in something like Bartlett's Quotations.
<@zette> Or you can use the character's name as the title: Darian's Story, Darian's Quest, etc. The trick is to not let the lack of the title stop you.
<@zette> And don't spend hours looking for just the right character name. Person X is a character being born in your story. It might be a few pages before he becomes real, and you see a name.
<Jim> Do the zines change your titles as often and as willingly as the novel publishers?
<@zette> I've never had a title change in ezines, but I can't say for magazines. I haven't noticed it mentioned among my 'pro' friends, though.
<Damon M. Lord> I usually call all my main chars "Arnold" until their names change
<@zette> That works!
<@zette> Wow, that hour went fast!
<@zette> Any specific questions or comments?
<Damon M. Lord> um, where'd everyone go?
<Cailin> I got disconnected again.
<Damon M. Lord> will this be a weekly class? Is it too late to sign up? And will it be this time every week?
<@zette> I do have a short assignment before tomorrow's class. Find your story 'incident' and write a short description of the story -- just a couple paragraphs or an outline. Don't worry about characters or anything else, just imagine an incident that you think you might like to write about. And be sure to let me know the genre, too.
<@zette> This is going to go for the next four days, Damon. Then a class on the 8th and another on the following Sunday.
<Cailin> Problem, Zette cara -- I get the characters first,
then the incident, never the other way around.
<@zette> And you're welcome to join in, if you want.
<@zette> Then imagine a character doing something, Cailin. It doesn't matter if you have the character first, just don't focus on the character.
<Damon M. Lord> (get my diary/palmpilot)
<@zette> My short stories almost always start when I see a character in a situation and grow from there. But you need to have some idea of what the situation is before you can write the story.
<@zette> And don't worry about it being something 'not great' for this class. This is just practice stuff. You might change the entire idea by day three. (grin)
<@zette> Tomorrow we're going to cover how to find the best storyteller and POV for your story, so it will help if you have some idea of a situation.
<Damon M. Lord> ok - that's 31,1,2,3 then 8th Aug, then 11th?
<@zette> Yes, that looks right!
<@zette> Any questions? Thoughts?
<@zette> Damon -- that last one should be the 12th, actually.
<@zette> I think.
<Cailin> All this is going to be posted on the transcripts board?
<Damon M. Lord> gotta make a note of homework - do we have to send it in? or just have it here in front of us?
<@zette> Yes it will. I'll just cut out some of the extra stuff and get it up in a little while.
<@zette> Just have it in front of you for now. I think we have a temporary board for posting that stuff while we're in class, but I need to check that part out.
<Cailin> Okay, I need to skeedadle so someone else can use the computer.
<Damon M. Lord> 12th? that means it'll be Monday morn here... brb
<Cailin> I'll see y'all tomorrow!
<@zette> Bye Cailin! Talk to you later!
<Jim> Is tomorrow the same class session, Z, or a continuation of tonight's?
<Jim> and I missed the homework assignment - had to reboot.
<@zette> Tomorrow we'll discuss finding the best story teller for the story and POV problems.
<Damon M. Lord> where do we submit the homework to?
<@zette> It'll be in the transcript, Jim .
<@zette> Just have the homework done, Damon, so you can discuss it in class tomorrow.
<@zette> Here Jim: I do have a short assignment before tomorrow's class. Find your story 'incident' and write a short description of the story -- just a couple paragraphs or an outline. Don't worry about characters or anything else, just imagine an incident that you think you might like to write about. And be sure to let me know the genre, too.
<Jim> ok...
<Damon M. Lord> ok - making notes :)#
<@zette> Ha. No real smiley faces here. I like this place better and better.
<Damon M. Lord>
@ Z - they'll show up in the N54 transcript tho' no?
<@zette> No, they will not, because I'll kill them before they get that far.
<@zette> Okay, if that's about it... ah, lost Jim again.
<Damon M. Lord>
(Yes, I left them in on purpose...)
<@zette> Damon, if the class is too late on the 12th, you can check the transcript and discuss it with me outside the class.
<Damon M. Lord> I think I can make 1am (it's 2:24 now if it's any help) for classes
<Damon M. Lord> did that post?
<@zette> Any time you can't, just check the transcript.
<@zette> Yeah . I hope to do these classes again in a month or so, but at a different time. We'll see if there's any interest.
<@zette> I have to get through Vision first, though. And the rest of the Dare.
<Damon M. Lord> ok - I'm going over to Cato's now - maybe see you there later?
<@zette> Yeah, I'll run over there while I'm editing the transcript! Thanks for dropping in!
<Damon M. Lord> bye (ignore "Damon" - that ID I dunno how to get rid of)
<@zette> Shutting down the power, Luke...
Lazette Gifford
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