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who is George Lamsa anyway??

January 28 2013 at 3:02 PM
tumang2k  (Login Tumang2k)

 
Who is George Lamsa?

He was a man who was into psychic phenomenon, this alone should disqualify him from being a reputable source for the Scriptures. He denied the Trinity which is clearly expressed in his translation, which is why it is accepted by certain churches. This is why it is the most popular translation among the cults. He believed sin was error and he was a universalist believing all would be saved (not even the Iglesia ni Cristo church would accept this). He also believed the Holy Spirit was a influence or power. Like the Sadducee's he denies a belief in personal angels or demons. He also had a view of Christ as 2 persons in one body (Nestorian heresy which some trace to his upbringing) not 2 natures in Christ the one person. Lamsa also claimed to be the sole competent interpreter of the scriptures. "Moreover, the author was educated under the care of learned priests of the church of the east who knew no other language but Aramaic,..the author, through God's grace, is the only one with the knowledge of Aramaic, the bible customs and idioms, and the knowledge of the English language who has ever translated the Holy bible from the original Aramaic texts into English and written commentaries on it, and his translation is now in pleasingly wide use" (G. Lamsa More light on the Gospel (NY 1968). Certainly Iglesia would not agree with Lamsa's position on salvation since they teach one MUST join their Church to be saved. So why use a man who they would discredit for these things as well? Because He's one of the few published authors they can find that can agree with their position.

" Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad."

"Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord"
Deuteronomy 6: 4

 
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HiJo
(Login bertfrog)

Superficial cherry pickers

January 29 2013, 4:21 AM 

Come on INC member admit it your messenger was just a Cherry Picker as to whatever he could find as a way of keeping you and your cash! Thus use of Lamsa Acts 20'28.

If this is not true then what is the basis of choosing the Lamsa version?


 
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emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

God has no blood.

January 29 2013, 4:58 AM 

[[..what is the basis of choosing the
Lamsa version?]]

I believe you will not accept this.
No, I'm not a reader of mind, just based
on your belief.

Acts 20:28 Lamsa
28) Take heed therefore to yourselves
and to all the flock over which the
Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers,
to feed the church of Christ which he
has purchased with HIS blood .

The last two words says HIS blood .

God do not have blood.

NIV
28) Keep watch over yourselves and all the
flock of which the Holy Spirit has made
you overseers. Be shepherds of the church
of God , which he bought with his own blood .

The pronoun he and his was referred to God.

We all know Jesus is the One who shed blood.


**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
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HiJo
(Login bertfrog)

Not if Jesus=God

January 29 2013, 6:04 AM 

Then Acts 20:28 makes sense (Except for your Lamsa published in 1933).

Another INC explanation - God cant die, Jesus died so God is not Jesus! Is easily refuted because
God didnt die it was only the physical body of Jesus

 
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emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

Unbiblical Trinity is more acceptable to you than Bible Lamsa.

January 29 2013, 6:43 AM 

[[God didnt die it was only the physical
body of Jesus]]

So Trinitarian.

**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
 Respond to this message   
Kumag Ka
(Login shudas342)

that only means the physical body of Jesus is DNA 100% human !

January 29 2013, 11:47 AM 

this time, I agree with Emman.

this time, the Lamsa version of acts 20:28 is accurate.

READ THE VERSES BELOW- THE CONTEXT IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST'S BLOOD, NOT GOD'S.

1) Acts 20:28 (Amplified Bible)
28Take care and be on guard for yourselves and the whole flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you bishops and guardians, to shepherd (tend and feed and guide) the church of the Lord or [a]of God which He obtained for Himself [buying it and saving it for Himself] with His own blood.

2) Acts 20:21-28 (New Living Translation)
21 I have had one message for Jews and Greeks alikethe necessity of repenting from sin and turning to God, and of having faith in our Lord Jesus.
22 And now I am bound by the Spirit[a] to go to Jerusalem. I dont know what awaits me, 23 except that the Holy Spirit tells me in city after city that jail and suffering lie ahead. 24 But my life is worth nothing to me unless I use it for finishing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesusthe work of telling others the Good News about the wonderful grace of God.
25 And now I know that none of you to whom I have preached the Kingdom will ever see me again. 26 I declare today that I have been faithful. If anyone suffers eternal death, its not my fault,[b] 27 for I didnt shrink from declaring all that God wants you to know.
28 So guard yourselves and Gods people. Feed and shepherd Gods flockhis church, purchased with his own blood[c]over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as elders.[d]

3) Acts 20:21-28 (Contemporary English Version)
21I told Jews and Gentiles to turn to God and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
22I don't know what will happen to me in Jerusalem, but I must obey God's Spirit and go there. 23In every city I visit, I am told by the Holy Spirit that I will be put in jail and will be in trouble in Jerusalem. 24But I don't care what happens to me, as long as I finish the work that the Lord Jesus gave me to do. And that work is to tell the good news about God's great kindness.
25I have gone from place to place, preaching to you about God's kingdom, but now I know that none of you will ever see me again. 26I tell you today that I am no longer responsible for any of you! 27I have told you everything God wants you to know. 28Look after yourselves and everyone the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be like shepherds to God's church. It is the flock that he bought with the blood of his own Son. [a]

CLEARLY ALL THESE VERSES, AMONG MANY OTHERS, POINTED OUT THAT IT IS JESUS BLOOD THAT WAS SPILLED, NOT GOD'S.

 
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Michael
(Login tong2012)

Dangerous mistake.

January 29 2013, 6:33 AM 

Acts 20:28 Lamsa
28) Take heed therefore to yourselves
and to all the flock over which the
Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers,
to feed the church of Christ which he
has purchased with HIS blood .

The last two words says HIS blood .

God do not have blood.

NIV
28) Keep watch over yourselves and all the
flock of which the Holy Spirit has made
you overseers. Be shepherds of the church
of God , which he bought with his own blood .

The pronoun he and his was referred to God.

We all know Jesus is the One who shed blood.

MICHAEL:

If that's how you do things, I think it's a dangerous mistake.

What you believe must not dictate what one expects scriptures to say. Just because you believe that God do not have blood and that you believe that it is Jesus who shed blood, that you can categorically say that the lamsa rendition of Acts 20:28 is the correct translation, and ignore the original Greek text.

The truth of the scriptures is not established by the logic and reason of man, but by what the inspired men of God as guided by the Holy Spirit, have written. All original manuscripts where the different Bibles were translated from, have the portion of Acts 20:28 "ekklesia tou Theou".

George Lamsa's translation is not based from the original Greek manuscripts but only based on a secondary source, the Peshitta. Therefore, it is not from the original Greek manuscripts. All original manuscripts of the New Testament were written only in Greek. The Peshitta is only a translation in Aramaic of the Greek original. In the Greek original manuscripts, what is written in Acts 20:28 is "ekklesia tou Theou" or church of (the) God." It was never written "ekklesia tou Christos" or church of (the) Christ."

Thus, the true words of God, as can be verified from ALL the ORIGINAL Greek scriptures have Acts 20:28 with church of God, and not church of Christ. This will be a very difficult and painful thing for you to accept, given your zeal in the INC teaching of Acts 20:28. But your rejection of it is the rejection of the truth of God's words in the original Greek form. And the acceptance of the Peshitta, which is a translation in itself, a secondary source that is, is rejection of the words of God in the original Greek. As such, your faith could be said to have its foundation on the man, George Lamsa, FYM as messenger, and the Peshitta as scriptures.

If ALL the original Greek scriptural writings have Acts 20:28 as "ekklesia tou Theou" or church of God.", then that simply is what was written and is the true Word of God. While it would seem to not be in harmony with man's logic and reason, it does not change the truth of it.

With Acts 20:28, taken in it's original Greek text, that is " "ekklesia tou Theou", this is a direct and strong testimony that God purchased the church with his "own blood". Now, one might say that it is impossible, because God is without blood. While, in the literal sense, that could very well be the blood of Jesus Christ as testified to elsewhere in scriptures, the phrase "own blood" could be taken figuratively to mean "own life". In any case, the point is that, it is God who is the redeemer, and is the Savior of the church. And, in any case, using Acts 20:28, as a verse that speaks of the church as to have the official name of "Church of Christ" or "Iglesia ni Cristo" is simply a forced fabrication and unfounded.


_____________________________________________

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

JESUS is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.

PRAISE BE TO GOD, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH!

 
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emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

There is more than one Greek translation of the bible.

January 29 2013, 7:07 AM 

Excerpt from link below.
http://torch-of-salvation.blogspot.com/2011/10/tungkol-sa-gawa-2028-na-salin-ni-george.html
Ang hindi alam ng marami, sa wikang Griego
ang Gawa 20:28, ay mayroon pang isang version,
na ganito naman ang nakalagay:

Acts 20:28
,
, ,
.
(Tischendorf Greek New Testament)

Dito sa Bibliang ito imbes na IGLESIA NG DIYOS
na sa Greek nga ay:
o EKKLSIAN TOU THEOU

Ang nakalagay dito ay:
o EKKLSIAN TOU KURIOU

O sa English CHURCH OF THE LORD na siya
namang pinagbatayan ng Bibliang ito:
******
Greek Words was actually copied but cannot be
pasted. It is advisable to read the the link.
Michael, I hope you don't mind. Thanks

**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
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Michael
(Login tong2012)

Acts 20:28 "church of the LORD or of GOD.

January 29 2013, 7:51 AM 

note: I've read the article at the link you provided.

The only other original Greek text that the article was pointing to have "EKKLSIAN TOU KURIOU" - church of the Lord.

Now, be that as it may, it remains a fact that there is no original Greek text of Acts 20:28 that have "EKKLSIAN TOU KRISTOU" -church of Christ. That this one, out of ALL the other Greek text is not proof that what is written is "church of Christ". And it must be put in mind that originals are not translated versions. So that, the sole differing script of "Lord" could only be taken to refer to same God as referred to by ALL of the other original scriptural text.

And as I've said, in any case, the point is that, it is God who is the redeemer, and is the Savior of the church. And, in any case, using Acts 20:28, as a verse that speaks of the church as to have the official name of "Church of Christ" or "Iglesia ni Cristo" is simply a forced fabrication and unfounded.





_____________________________________________

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

JESUS is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.

PRAISE BE TO GOD, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH!

 
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emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

Church of Christ.

January 29 2013, 10:07 AM 

We both know that Jesus Lord is also.
Between the two Lords, Christ is the
One more appropriate to fill that
name of Church.
Because the Lord mentioned was referred to
the One that has blood.

**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
 Respond to this message   
Michael
(Login tong2012)

What is more appropriate is not necessarily what is correct.

January 29 2013, 10:32 AM 

We both know that Jesus Lord is also.
Between the two Lords, Christ is the
One more appropriate to fill that
name of Church.
Because the Lord mentioned was referred to
the One that has blood.


MICHAEL:

There is no need to see what is more appropriate or what is not. The fact is, in scriptures, is written "church of God" [in All scriptural text, but one], and "church of the Lord" [once]. Putting "Christ" instead of "God" or "Lord", depending on what scriptural text was translated, is a clear case of altering God's word.



_____________________________________________

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

JESUS is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.

PRAISE BE TO GOD, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH!

 
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Eric
(Login sheepfound)

EMPHASIZE to EMAN that CHURCH is NOT referring to a CONGREGATION, but the ELECT!!

January 29 2013, 12:44 PM 


 
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Wayne
(Login Wayne2V)

And definitely this can not be incorrect

January 29 2013, 12:56 PM 

John 4:24 MKJV: God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

Luke 24:39 MKJV: Behold My hands and My feet, that I am He! Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have.

 
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Eric
(Login sheepfound)

really? So GOD didnt WALK in the garden looking for Adam and Eve?

January 29 2013, 1:01 PM 


Amazing how Cults place LIMITATIONs on the INFINITE MAJESTY


GOD!

 
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Wayne
(Login Wayne2V)

Are you saying a spirit couldn't "WALK" ? Please quote your verse reference.

January 29 2013, 1:17 PM 


 
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Eric
(Login sheepfound)

Spirits walk? have you seen a SPIRIT walk? lol

January 29 2013, 3:44 PM 


 
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emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

Appropriate is correct.

January 30 2013, 10:09 AM 

[[What is more appropriate is not
necessarily what is correct .]]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/appropriate
appropriate adjective
Synonyms applicable, appropriate, apt, becoming,
befitting, felicitous, fitted, fitting, good,
happy, meet, pretty, proper , right, suitable

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proper
1 _prop·er_ adjective \prä-pr\
a : strictly accurate : correct


Appropriate = proper = correct



**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
 Respond to this message   
Michael
(Login tong2012)

No more refutation? Conclusions inside.

January 30 2013, 12:11 PM 

Conclusions:

1. The church as to have the official name of "Church of Christ" or "Iglesia ni Cristo" is simply a forced fabrication and unfounded. Acts 20:28 does not say anything to that effect.

2. Acts 20:28 in the original Greek scriptures don't have "church of Christ", but "church of God" and "church of the Lord". To have "church of Christ" in place of "church of God" and "church of the Lord" is alteration of the actual written words of scriptures.

3. INC's claim that the official name of the church that Christ built is "Iglesia ni Cristo" is baseless and false.

The following have not been refuted properly as of this post.

_____________________________________________

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

JESUS is the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life.

PRAISE BE TO GOD, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH!

 
 Respond to this message   
emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

Be logical to accept God has no blood.

January 30 2013, 12:41 PM 

[[1. The church as to have the official name
of "Church of Christ" or "Iglesia ni Cristo"
is simply a forced fabrication and unfounded.
Acts 20:28 does not say anything to that effect.]]

Even if you accept that Church of
Christ as the official name of the
church, you will have another problem.
Because it's not only INC religion
have this name.

There are so many religion with a name
of Church Of Christ.

The name Church Of Christ is not the
complete description of a true church
of Christ. It is also about its teachings.
And most of all, the fulfillment of
the prophecy written in the Bible.


[[2. Acts 20:28 in the original Greek scriptures
don't have "church of Christ", but "church of
God" and "church of the Lord". To have "church
of Christ" in place of "church of God" and "church
of the Lord" is alteration of the actual written
words of scriptures.]]

Excerpt from link below.
http://torch-of-salvation.blogspot.com/2011/10/tungkol-sa-gawa-2028-na-salin-ni-george.html
Apoc 5:8-9 At pagkakuha niya ng aklat, ang
apat na nilalang na buhay at ang dalawangpu't
apat na matatanda ay nangagpatirapa sa harapan
ng CORDERO, na ang bawa't isa'y may alpa, at
mga mangkok na ginto na puno ng kamangyan, na
siyang mga panalangin ng mga banal. At sila'y
nangagaawitan ng isang bagong awit, na nagsasabi,
Ikaw ang karapatdapat na kumuha ng aklat, at
magbukas ng mga tatak nito: sapagka't ikaw ay
pinatay, at BINILI MO SA DIOS NG IYONG DUGO ANG
MGA TAO SA BAWA'T ANGKAN, AT WIKA, AT BAYAN,
AT BANSA.

Ang liwanag ng sabi ng talatang ito:

BINILI MO SA DIOS NG IYONG DUGO ANG MGA TAO
SA BAWA'T ANGKAN, AT WIKA, AT BAYAN, AT BANSA

Ang kinakausap dito at pinagsasabihan ng mga
katagang iyan ay ang CORDERO na siyang BUMILI
sa mga tao NG KANIYANG DUGO sa DIYOS, na siyempre
naman ang MGA TAO na tinutukoy ay tumutukoy
sa mga kaanib ng IGLESIA.

Kaya napakaimposible talaga na ang Diyos ang
bibili ng kaniyang dugo sa Iglesia, kasi nga
Una, walang dugo ang Diyos, at pangalawa sa
kaniya binili ng dugo ang Iglesia.










**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
 Respond to this message   
emmanuel
(Login exactformula)

Capital letter is noun and small letter is adjective.

February 2 2013, 3:28 AM 

Church -- church
God -- god
Lord -- lord



Definition of NOUN

: any member of a class of words that
typically can be combined with determiners
to serve as the subject of a verb, can be
interpreted as singular or plural, can be
replaced with a pronoun, and refer to an
entity, quality, state, action, or concept


Definition of ADJECTIVE

: a word belonging to one of the major form
classes in any of numerous languages and
typically serving as a modifier of a noun
to denote a quality of the thing named, to
indicate its quantity or extent, or to specify
a thing as distinct from something else

**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Deuteronomy 4:2 Amplified Bible
2) You shall not add to the word which I
command you, neither shall you diminish
it, that you may keep the commandments
of the Lord your God which I command you.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
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