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Pope as Anti-Christ

June 29 2017 at 4:01 AM
Wayne  (Login vgretz_8)

The Pope as Anti Christ

One of the Pope's titles is Vicar of Christ upon earth.

(Ecclesiastical Latin papa from Greek papas, a variant of pappas father, in classical Latin pappas -- Juvenal, "Satires" 6:633). The title pope, once used with far greater latitude (see below, section V), is at present employed solely to denote the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth.
—The Catholic Encyclopedia 1908

What is meant by Vicar?

(Lat. vicarius, from vice, “instead of”)—The Catholic Encyclopedia 1908

(from Latin vicarius, “substitute”), an official acting in some special way for a superior, primarily an ecclesiastical title in the Christian Church. In the Roman Empire as reorganized by Emperor Diocletian (reigned 284–305), the vicarius was an important official, and the title remained in use for secular officials in the Middle Ages. In the Roman Catholic Church, “vicar of Christ” became the special designation of the popes starting in the 8th century, and eventually it replaced the older title of “vicar of St. Peter.”—Encyclopædia Britannica Ultimate Reference Suite

What is meant by the Greek word “Anti” ?

A.  Thayer's Greek Definition

Thayer Definition:
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
       2a) instead of
       2b) for
       2c) for that, because
       2d) wherefore, for this cause
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle

B.  BDAG Lexicon
ἀντί prep. w. gen. (Hom.+; for lit. s. on ἀνά, beg.); orig. mng. local, ‘opposite’, then of various types of correspondence ranging from replacement to equivalence. A marker

1. indicating that one person or thing is, or is to be, replaced by another, instead of, in place of ἀντὶ τοῦ πατρὸς αὐτοῦ Ἡρῴδου in place of his father Herod Mt 2:22 (cp. Hdt. 1, 108; X., An. 1, 1, 4; Appian, Mithrid, 7 §23 Νικομήδης ἀντὶ Προυσίου ἐβασίλευε, Syr. 69 §364; 3 Km 11:43; Tob 1:15, 21; 1 Macc 3:1; 9:31 al.; Jos., Ant. 15, 9). ἀ. ἰχθύος ὄφιν instead of a fish, a snake Lk 11:11 (Paroem. Gr.: Zenobius [Hadr.] 1, 88 ἀντὶ πέρκης σκορπίον, prob. from Attic comedy: Kock III 678 [Adesp.]; Paus. 9, 41, 3 Cronos receives ἀντὶ Διὸς πέτρον to swallow). ἀ. τῆς προκειμένης αὐτῷ χαρᾶς ὑπέμεινεν σταυρόν Hb 12:2 (cp. PHib 170 [247 BC] ἀντὶ φιλίας ἔχθραν; 3 Macc 4:6 , 8); sense 3 is also prob., depending on the mng. of πρόκειμαι (q.v. 2 and 3). Cp. Hs 1:8; 9, 29, 4.

2. indicating that one thing is equiv. to another, for, as, in place of (Diod. S. 3, 30, 3) κόμη ἀ. περιβολαίου hair as a covering 1 Cor 11:15. ὀφθαλμὸν ἀ. ὀφθαλμοῦ καὶ ὀδόντα ἀ. ὀδόντος Mt 5:38 (Ex 21:24). κακὸν ἀ. κακοῦ ἀποδίδωμι (cp. Ael. Aristid. 38 p. 711 D.: ἴσα ἀντ᾽ ἴσων ἀποδ.; Pr 17:13; Mel., P. 72, 531 κακὰ ἀντὶ ἀγαθῶν [cp. Ps 34:12].—SIG 145, 9 τὰ κακὰ ἀντὶ τ. ἀγαθῶν) Ro 12:17; 1 Th 5:15; 1 Pt 3:9. λοιδορίαν ἀ. λοιδορίας ibid. (Dionys. Soph., Ep. 40 χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος= gift in return for gift). Differently to be understood is χάριν ἀ. χάριτος grace after or upon grace (i.e. God's favor comes in ever new streams; cp. Philo, Poster. Cain. 145 διὰ τὰς πρώτας χάριτας … ἑτέρας ἀντ᾽ ἐκείνων καὶ τρίτας ἀντὶ τ. δευτέρων καὶ ἀεὶ νέας ἀντὶ παλαιοτέρων … ἐπιδίδωσι. Theognis 344 ἀντ᾽ ἀνιῶν ἀνίας) J 1:16 (JBover, Biblica 6, 1925, 454-60; PJoüon, RSR 22, ’32, 206; WNewton, CBQ 1, ’39, 160-63).

3. indicating a process of intervention. Gen 44:33 shows how the sense ‘in place of’ can develop into in behalf of, for someone, so that ἀ. becomes =ὑπέρ (s. Rossberg [s.v. ἀνά] 18.—Diod. S. 20, 33, 7 αὐτὸν ἀντ᾽ ἐκείνου τὴν τιμωρίαν ὑπέχειν=he would have to take the punishment for him [i.e., his son]; Ael. Aristid. 51, 24 K.=27 p. 540 D.: Φιλουμένη ψυχὴν ἀντὶ ψυχῆς κ. σῶμα ἀντὶ σώματος ἀντέδωκεν, τὰ αὑτῆς ἀντὶ τῶν ἐμῶν) δοῦναι ἀ. ἐμοῦ καὶ σοῦ pay (it) for me and for yourself Mt 17:27. λύτρον ἀ. πολλῶν a ransom for many 20:28; Mk 10:45 (Appian, Syr. 60 §314 διδόναι τι ἀντὶ τῆς σωτηρίας, Bell. Civ. 5, 39 §166 ἐμοὶ ἀντὶ πάντων ὑμῶν καταχρήσασθαι=inflict punishment on me in place of all of you; Jos., Ant. 14, 107 τὴν δοκὸν αὐτῷ τὴν χρυσῆν λύτρον ἀ. πάντων ἔδωκεν; cp. Eur., Alc. 524). S. the lit. on λύτρον.—W. articular inf. (Ael. Aristid. 34 p. 654 D.; Jos., Ant. 16, 107) ἀ. τοῦ λέγειν ὑμᾶς instead of (your) saying Js 4:15 (B-D-F §403; Rob. 574; Mlt-Turner 258).—Replacing the gen. of price (even in Hdt. et al., s. Kühner-G. I 454; cp. Hdt. 3, 59 νῆσον ἀντὶ χρημάτων παρέλαβον; Pla., Rep. 371d; Jos., Ant. 4, 118) ἀ. βρώσεως μιᾶς ἀπέδοτο (in exchange) for a single meal Hb 12:16. So perh. also vs. 2 (s. 1 above).

4. indicating the reason for someth., because of, for the purpose of, ἀ. τούτου for this reason Eph 5:31. W. attraction of the rel. ἀνθ᾽ ὧν in return for which=because (Soph., Ant. 1068; X., An. 1, 3, 4; OGI 90, 35 [196 BC]; PLeid D I, 21; LXX; AscIs 2:14; Jos., Ant. 17, 201; SibOr 5, 68; B-D-F §294, 4) Lk 1:20; 19:44; Ac 12:23; 2 Th 2:10.

5. indicating result, w. implication of being a replacement for someth., wherefore, therefore, so then (Aeschyl., Prom. 31; Thu. 6, 83, 1; 4 Macc 18:3; Jdth 9:3; Jos., Ant. 4, 318) Lk 12:3.—DELG s.v. ἄντα. M-M. EDNT. TW.

C.  Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

D.  JH Moulton and G Miligan—The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament
By far the commonest meaning of ἀντί is the simple “instead of.”


Vicar means “instead of” or “substitute”
Anti (Greek ἀντί) also means “instead of”, “in place of” or denoting substitution.
Christ in Greek is Χριστός
Translate Vicar of Christ into Greek would then be ἀντίχριστος— in English Anti-Christ.

1 John 2:18 GNT Παιδία, ἐσχάτη ὥρα ἐστί, καὶ καθὼς ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἀντίχριστος ἔρχεται, καὶ νῦν ἀντίχριστοι πολλοὶ γεγόνασιν· ὅθεν γινώσκομεν ὅτι ἐσχάτη ὥρα ἐστίν.

1 John 2:18 NRSV Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.

(Login TomasSedlacek)

That is ingenious thinking. I guess some antichrists would want to substitute

June 29 2017, 5:00 AM 

for Christ, but still, the normal meaning in the Bible is those who oppose Christ, who are against Christ, even if they don't want to substitute for Christ. Look at 2 John 7, all those who claim that Jesus has not come in the flesh are antichrists. So this was true of some sects, already in the first century, and became prominent in the second century, they taught docetism, the doctrine that Christ only seemed to have flesh, but in reality had no flesh, because flesh is evil. So he only seemed to suffer on the cross, but he was spirit, so he felt no pain. He simply did not come in the flesh. So John pointed out that this is an evil doctrine, really opposed to Christ, so those who teach it are opposed to Christ, they are antichrists.
On the other hand, the popes have historically preached the gospel, regardless if they were personally saved or not. So they did not oppose Christ, were not antichrists. They might be living in sin, but they still preached Christ. Similarly EVM, though he lives in sin, in luxury, in a mansion, he still preaches Christ.

(Login Deacon646)

Worship Defintion

June 29 2017, 11:51 AM 

to render religious reverence and homage to.

to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).

These definitions definitely describe the INC attitude towards E.V. Manalo, yet they claim they don't worship him. I would say he might be the antichrist, but he is not important or powerful enough for the role.

(Login hijo7591)

Trust an INC to come up with that

June 30 2017, 4:13 AM 

Like all their fanciful made up and concocted stories, last messenger, angel, one true church, ends of the earth etc etc etc.

(Login vgretz_8)

Related link

July 7 2017, 3:41 AM 

(Login TomasSedlacek)

Quite many biblical scholars are agreed that John meant the number 666 to represent

July 7 2017, 6:16 AM 

the emperor Nero, whose letters add to 666. Nero was the first Roman emperor to persecute the church, and he killed two important apostles in Rome, namely Peter and Paul. So it is likely that John who wrote Revelation meant 666 to represent Nero.

(Login vgretz_8)

Now considered spurious

August 4 2017, 4:18 AM 

Nero (ad37-68), fifth emperor of Rome and the last of the Julio-Claudian line.

Born Nero Claudius Caesar Drusus Germanicus on December 15, 37, at Antium and originally named Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus, Nero was the son of the consul Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus (died about 40) and Agrippina the Younger, great-granddaughter of Emperor Augustus. In 49 Agrippina married her uncle, Emperor Claudius I, and the following year she persuaded him to adopt her son, whose name was then changed. Later, Claudius married Nero to his daughter Octavia and marked him out for succession, bypassing his own son, Britannicus. On Claudius's death (54), the Praetorian Guards, under their prefect Sextus Afranius Burrus, Agrippina's agent, declared Nero emperor at the age of 17.

The initial five years of Nero's reign, guided by Burrus and the philosopher Seneca, Nero's tutor, were marked by moderation and clemency, although Nero had his rival Britannicus poisoned. In 59 he had his mother put to death for her criticism of his mistress, Poppaea Sabina. In 62 he divorced (and later executed) Octavia and married Poppaea. Burrus died, possibly poisoned, and Seneca retired.

In July 64, two-thirds of Rome burned while Nero was at Antium. In ancient times he was charged with being the incendiary, but most modern scholars doubt the truth of that accusation. According to some accounts (now considered spurious), he laid the blame on the Christians—few at that time—and persecuted them. He sheltered the homeless, however, and rebuilt the city with fire precautions. The building programs, like the spectacles and free grain he provided for the populace, were financed by plundering Italy and the provinces. Viewing himself as an artist and a religious visionary, he scandalized the army and aristocracy when he appeared publicly as an actor in religious dramas.

Meanwhile, the empire was in turmoil. Nero established Armenia as a buffer state against Parthia, but only after a costly, unsuccessful war. Revolts broke out in Britain (60-61) and in Judea (66-70). In 65 Gaius Calpurnius Piso led a conspiracy against the emperor; 18 of the 41 prominent Romans implicated in the plot perished, among them Seneca and his nephew, the epic poet Lucan. Poppaea was kicked to death by Nero, and he married Statilia Messalina after executing her husband. In 68 the Gallic and Spanish legions, along with the Praetorian Guards, rose against him, and he fled Rome. Declared a public enemy by the Senate, he committed suicide on June 9, 68, near Rome.

Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

(Login TomasSedlacek)

Whether or not Nero blamed the Christians for the fire, he was responsible for

August 4 2017, 5:05 AM 

persecuting the Christians in Rome, getting both Paul and Peter executed, as testified by second century Christian authors. So he is well known for having been the first Roman emperor who persecuted Christians.

(Login vgretz_8)

doubtful evidence

September 1 2017, 6:33 PM 

Nero was just a young man whose passion is music, stage play, poetry.


in full Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus , also called (50–54 CE) Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus , original name Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus
born Dec. 15, 37 CE, Antium, Latium
died June 9, 68, Rome [age 30]

[at age 16 became] the fifth Roman emperor (54–68 CE), stepson and heir of the emperor Claudius. He became infamous for his personal debaucheries and extravagances and, on doubtful evidence, for his burning of Rome and persecutions of Christians.   [bracket mine]

Encyclopaedia Britannica Ultimate Reference Suite

Great Fire (July, 64):

This difficulty was much increased by the great fire which was not only destructive to both private and state property, but also necessitated the providing thousands of homeless with shelter, and lowering the price of corn. On July 18, 64, this great conflagration broke out in Circus Maximus. A high wind caused it to spread rapidly over a large portion of the city, sweeping before it ill-built streets of wooden houses. At the end of six days it seemed to be exhausted for lack of material, when another conflagration started in a different quarter of the city. Various exaggerated accounts of the destruction are found in Roman historians: of the 14 city regions 7 were said to have been totally destroyed and 4 partially. Nero was at Antium at the time. He hastened back to the city and apparently took every means of arresting the spread of the flames. He superintended in person the work of the fire brigades, often exposing himself to danger. After the fire he threw open his own gardens to the homeless.—International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

(Login TomasSedlacek)

Catholic authors were writing of the persecution by Nero already around 195.

September 2 2017, 3:19 PM 

Specifically Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian. They ought to know, they were living under Roman persecution too.

(Login vgretz_8)

Nero died in year 68 so those Catholic authors weren't there

September 11 2017, 4:05 AM 

during the time of Nero. They only heard rumors

(Login TomasSedlacek)

They heard from previous generations of Catholics, what happened.

September 11 2017, 4:23 PM 

(Login Deacon646)

It could be Nero, or it could be some other emperor

September 6 2017, 5:43 PM 

Domitian for example. But its a near certainty that Revelations does not refer to the pope or popes.

(Login Deacon646)

Persecution of Christians in Rome

August 13 2017, 7:04 PM 

Its debatable whether Nero blamed the fire on christians butits pretty much accepted that that persecution of Christians became state policy of Rome during Nero's reign. In his book the 12 Caesars, Suetonius specifically mentions Nero being responsible for punishment of Christians. Nero was hated by Christians, and was likely the beast mentioned in Revelations.

(Login TomasSedlacek)

Good comment, except that Nero was not hated by Christians, Jesus teaches us

August 14 2017, 3:17 AM 

to love even our enemies. So they recognized Nero as an enemy, but loved him and prayed for his salvation. But Nero of course hated the Christians, and persecuted them.

(Login Deacon646)

Jesus may teach that

August 14 2017, 3:24 AM 

But teaching it and actually following that teaching are two different things. They called him a beast, not exactly a term of endearment.

(Login TomasSedlacek)

They called him a beast, but still loved him and prayed for him. But he was beastly.

August 14 2017, 3:53 AM 

(Login vgretz_8)

They could not buy or sell anything unless

July 27 2017, 4:17 AM 

Rev 13:16-17 NIRV He also forced everyone to receive a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. People great or small, rich or poor, free or slave had to receive the mark. 17: They could not buy or sell anything unless they had the mark. The mark is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Church Legislation on Heresy

When Constantine had taken upon himself the office of lay bishop, episcopus externus, and put the secular arm at the service of the Church, the laws against heretics became more and more rigorous. Under the purely ecclesiastical discipline no temporal punishment could be inflicted on the obstinate heretic, except the damage which might arise to his personal dignity through being deprived of all intercourse with his former brethren. But under the Christian emperors rigorous measures were enforced against the goods and persons of heretics. From the time of Constantine to Theodosius and Valentinian III (313-424) various penal laws were enacted by the Christian emperors against heretics as being guilty of crime against the State. "In both the Theodosian and Justinian codes they were styled infamous persons; all intercourse was forbidden to be held with them; they were deprived of all offices of profit and dignity in the civil administration, while all burdensome offices, both of the camp and of the curia, were imposed upon them; they were disqualified from disposing of their own estates by will, or of accepting estates bequeathed to them by others; they were denied the right of giving or receiving donations, of contracting, buying, and selling; pecuniary fines were imposed upon them; they were often proscribed and banished, and in many cases scourged before being sent into exile. In some particularly aggravated cases sentence of death was pronounced upon heretics, though seldom executed in the time of the Christian emperors of Rome. Theodosius is said to be the first who pronounced heresy a capital crime; this law was passed in 382 against the Encratites, the Saccophori, the Hydroparastatae, and the Manichaeans.—The Catholic Encyclopedia 1908

To receive a mark in one's forehead signifies to make an open profession of belonging to that person or party whose mark is said to be received.—A Symbolical Dictionary by Charles Daubuz

Marks also in the hands or wrists, were the tokens of servitude; the heathens being wont to imprint marks upon the hands of servants, and on such as devoted themselves to some false deity.—A Symbolical Dictionary by Charles Daubuz

Article from Encyclopaedia Britannica
a theological doctrine or system rejected as false by ecclesiastical authority.

Heresy differs from schism in that the heretic sometimes remains in the church despite his doctrinal errors, whereas the schismatic may be doctrinally orthodox but severs himself from the church. The Greek word hairesis (from which heresy is derived) was originally a neutral term that signified merely the holding of a particular set of philosophical opinions. Once appropriated by Christianity, however, the term heresy began to convey a note of disapproval. This was because the church from the start regarded itself as the custodian of a divinely imparted revelation which it alone was authorized to expound under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Thus, any interpretation that differed from the official one was necessarily “heretical” in the new, pejorative sense of the word.

This attitude of hostility to heresy is evident in the New Testament itself. St. Paul, for instance, insists that his gospel is identical with that of the Twelve Apostles, and in the later books of the New Testament the contrast in attitudes regarding approved doctrines and heretical ones is even more sharply drawn. In the 2nd century the Christian church became increasingly aware of the need to keep its teaching uncontaminated, and it devised criteria to test deviations. The Apostolic Fathers, 2nd-century Christian writers, appealed to the prophets and Apostles as sources of authoritative doctrine, and Irenaeus and Tertullian laid great stress on “the rule of faith,” which was a loose summary of essential Christian beliefs handed down from apostolic times. Later, the ecclesiastical and universal church council became the instrument for defining orthodoxy and condemning heresy. Eventually, in the Western church, the doctrinal decision of a council had to be ratified by the pope to be accepted.

During its early centuries, the Christian church dealt with many heresies. They included, among others, Docetism, Montanism, Adoptionism, Sabellianism, Arianism, Pelagianism, and Gnosticism (qq.v.). See also Donatist; Marcionite; monophysite.

Historically, the major means that the church had of combating heretics was to excommunicate them. In the 12th and 13th centuries, however, the Inquisition was established by the church to combat heresy; heretics who refused to recant after being tried by the church were handed over to the civil authorities for punishment, usually execution.

A new situation came about in the 16th century with the Reformation, which spelled the breakup of Western Christendom's previous doctrinal unity. The Roman Catholic church, satisfied that it is the true church armed with an infallible authority, has alone remained faithful to the ancient and medieval theory of heresy, and it occasionally denounces doctrines or opinions that it considers heretical. Most of the great Protestant churches similarly started with the assumption that their own particular doctrines embodied the final statement of Christian truth and were thus prepared to denounce as heretics those who differed with them. But with the gradual growth of toleration and the 20th-century ecumenical movement, most Protestant churches have drastically revised the notion of heresy as understood in the pre-Reformation church. It does not now seem to them inconsistent for a person to stoutly maintain the doctrines of his own communion while not regarding as heretics those who hold different views. The Roman Catholic church, too, draws a distinction between those who willfully and persistently adhere to doctrinal error and those who embrace it through no fault of their own, e.g., as a result of upbringing in another tradition. The term heresy also has been used among Jews, although they have not been as intense as Christians in their punishment of heretics. The concept and combating of heresy has historically been less important in Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islām than in Christianity.—Encyclopaedia Britannica Ultimate Reference Suite

(Login TomasSedlacek)

Well, the mark on the right hand OR the forehead was not the sign of the cross.

July 27 2017, 4:34 AM 

The sign of the cross was usually done by the right hand on the body, including the forehead, so it was not on the forehead OR the right hand, it was both, so that could not have been the mark of the beast. Besides, the sign of the cross was done also by many non-Catholic Christians of that time, who were so persecuted by the Catholic Christians.
The mark of the beast is explained in verse 17-18, it is the name of a person, whose number is 666, that according to many Biblical scholars was the number of the emperor Nero. So the mark of the beast was the worship of Nero, and whoever did not want to worship him was not allowed to buy or sell. Nero was the first emperor who persecuted the Christians, killing for example Peter and Paul.

(Login vgretz_8)

Did you read fully my post?

August 4 2017, 4:20 AM 

To receive a mark in one's forehead signifies to make an open profession of belonging to that person or party whose mark is said to be received.—A Symbolical Dictionary by Charles Daubuz

Marks also in the hands or wrists, were the tokens of servitude; the heathens being wont to imprint marks upon the hands of servants, and on such as devoted themselves to some false deity.—A Symbolical Dictionary by Charles Daubuz

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Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife
and they shall be two in one flesh