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Infidel

July 26 2017 at 11:23 PM
PuksainAngTaglish  (Login PuksainAngTaglish)

 
Long time member/officer turned unbeliever here. You can call me infidel, atheist, antitheist, humanist, rationalist or secularist. I will not disagree. The hypocrisy and unbelievable arrogance of the EVM administration has forced me to look deeper and examine my own beliefs. I have always believed in science and the scientific method. It cannot be denied because we use and apply it everyday. I also believed (or forced myself to believe) that there has got to be some reconciliation between what the Bible (and the INC minister) teaches and science. I have now realized that there is none. The Bible and other so-called ‘holy’ books are manmade fiction that deserves no more credence than the literary works of Shakespeare, Milton, Rizal and others.

I urge all readers here to watch (youtube) Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens. These folks are experts in their field and are proponents of science and reason. I urge you all to gather the information, use your own brain to sort them out and make up your own mind. You have the power.

 
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Iam1plus1plus1
(Login Ador_De_Leon)

We are of the same thought...

July 27 2017, 12:10 AM 

I agree totally what you said. How long have you been a member? and do you still attend? I was born into the Church. Like you, I was active before all these things have been happening, also a Church officer. And these anomalies made me question the Church and then eventually the existence of God. I have OWE relatives that are disappointed in me that I do not attend anymore. How about you? Welcome fellow Infidel.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 27 2017, 2:32 AM 

More than 20 years. No longer attending. It is my purpose now to persuade people to investigate and convince them that religion is a cancer on humanity, albeit a curable cancer. The cure is science, reason and rational thinking.

 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

The Bible is perfectly compatible with scientific discoveries. You need to realize

July 27 2017, 4:48 AM 

that not everything in the Bible is meant literally. There is a lot of symbolism in the Bible. So for example the creation stories are not meant literally. To take them literally would give us contradictions. So the stories are symbolic stories, to illustrate the grandeur of God's creation. So likewise the story of the flood of Noah is not meant literally. To take it literally would contradict science of course. The story is symbolic of God's anger at all the sinfulness of most people in the time of Noah.
So you can accept evolution and believe the Bible. You can accept all modern scientific discoveries and believe the Bible.
The Bible is reliable. It prophesied a large number of prophesies about the coming of the Messiah, and no other man came even close to fulfilling the prophesies, but Jesus fulfilled them exactly. So that proves Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ. He rose from the tomb, the tomb was then empty, and over 500 people saw Jesus alive again, so they were witnesses that it happened. And they were ready to testify to what they witnessed, and many of them were martyred rather than deny their faith, including almost all of the apostles. One would not be ready to die for lying about what miracles he has witnessed.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 28 2017, 11:10 PM 

It’s easy to say in this 20th century that certain parts of the Bible are symbolic or allegorical or figurative because these passages have been proven by science to be erroneous at worst and implausible at best. I am sure during the early first century through the dark ages, it was taken literally, period. Any other interpretation is heresy punishable by death.

If there are symbolic passages now, who is to say which is symbolic and which is not? A fellow human being who says he saw it in a vision? This just proves the point that this document is manmade fiction. A well written, superb even magnificent piece of literature (read KJV) that deserves to be studied for generations to come, not as basis for living one’s life, and certainly not a source for scientific information.

 
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Tomas
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The Bible is not intended for scientific information, but for doctrinal information.

July 29 2017, 2:29 PM 

It is to lead us close to God.

 
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Iam1plus1plus1
(Login Ador_De_Leon)

What made you stop believing?

July 27 2017, 4:55 PM 

You were an officer right? What happened that made you question things and stop believing? I started to question the Administration right after the video of Ka Angel came out and then the questions led to questioning the existence of God. How long ago did you stop attending? I stopped attending a few months ago. Couldn't stand it anymore and my OWE family just used too hard. 20 years? So you weren't born into the Church, or what? Please let us know your history with the Church.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 27 2017, 5:52 PM 

Was in Finance. Joined through my spouse. At first, I noticed subtle changes in finance procedures that later became more blatant like taking cash (in large bills) from the safe in the middle of the night to hand over to visiting Sanggunian members, no paper trail. Lately, the formation of the 'Mandirigma' group. That word can easily translate to 'Holy Warrior' in English and 'Jihadi' in Arabic. It's a small step from 'we are the chosen ones' to 'death to the unbelievers'. I think some of them took that step recently. Now it is done.

 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

Wow, Holy Warrior. That is extreme. INC sure has deteriorated.

July 28 2017, 4:50 AM 


 
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Deacon646
(Login Deacon646)

I am not quite a non believer

July 27 2017, 2:19 AM 

I am an agnostic who believes that God may or may not exist. The bible has some nice things in it, and some things that really take gullible people to believe, (Noah's flood for example). And INCers seem more gullible than most. At least most American Christians don't allow the church to tell them who to vote for, at least not outright.

 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

Yes, INC has made a big mistake by believing in the literal Noah's flood.

July 27 2017, 5:07 AM 

Just about any Christian scientist will tell you that if we take the story of Noah's flood literally, it would contradict scientific discoveries. The fact is that the Bible has a lot of symbolic stories, parables, which are not intended to be taken literally. And with modern scientific discoveries, we can see more clearly than ever that the flood story is among them. It simply symbolizes God's anger at the sinful people of Noah's time. Of course there was no literal worldwide flood at that time, or only one language spoken at that time. The flood story was adapted from Babylonian mythology, the inspired author of Genesis was inspired to rewrite the flood story to fit monotheism. And after the exodus, when the Israelites adopted the Hebrew language from their neighbors in the holy land, Genesis was translated into Hebrew, an inspired translation. And likewise the 4 books of Moses, from Exodus to Deuteronomy, were translated into Hebrew. The Israelites at the time of Moses probably spoke Egyptian. The language spoken by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was surely a much older Semitic language, which was surely forgotten during slavery in Egypt. The much newer Hebrew language was basically identical to the language of the Canaanites and other nations that lived in the holy land at the time of the exodus, and very similar to Moabite, Ammonite and other languages of their neighbors to the east, basically dialects of the same language. So the idea of some Christians that Abraham spoke Hebrew, must be totally wrong. Some even think that the language of all people in the time of Noah was Hebrew. So absurd. Totally unscientific.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 27 2017, 6:56 AM 

The story of the great flood and Noah's ark is just one of many unbelievable tales, literal or figurative. Many Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) religious leaders and theologists stand by their belief that the universe is literally less than 10,000 years old (book of Genesis), not the scientifically accepted 13.8 billion. That's just an example of the great rift between religion and science that cannot be reconciled.

If you have not seen it, I recommend the movie 'Religulous' with Bill Maher for a humorous/sober take on religion.

 
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Iam1plus1plus1
(Login Ador_De_Leon)

I'm going to check out that movie...

July 27 2017, 2:08 PM 

Saw some bits of the movie on Youtube. I gotta check it out. Bill Maher is great, he gets to the point into whatever he talks about in and in a humorous way. the Bible is a great story book. That's all it is, stories. It's not the literal word of God, it was ideas of men who used it to control the masses. I respect that people can believe whatever they want, but if their beliefs make them disturb other peoples' beliefs or non-beliefs... we have a problem.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
― Epicurus



 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

Those Christians who believe the universe is just a few thousand years old are guilty

July 28 2017, 4:56 AM 

of making Christianity look ridiculous. No wonder many scientists are not Christian, when they hear Christians making such claims. It is very sad. Such Christians need to look at the scientific evidence without bias, and then realize that such stories in the Bible are not meant to be taken literally.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 28 2017, 10:31 PM 

It is deplorable that the only reason these Christians you mention (as well as Jews and Muslims) believe that fallacious age of the universe is because it is the dogma and doctrine taught to them by their leaders. And just like the blind followers of EVM, they will swallow it hook, line and sinker. It is high time we all use the highly evolved brains we have to think for ourselves.

 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

I want to say that Muslims do not have a dogma about how old is the universe.

July 29 2017, 3:02 PM 

The Qur'an does not have anything like Genesis 1, that could be misinterpreted as teaching a literal creation in 6 days. Or even any indication about when Adam lived. The Qur'an does teach creation in 6 days, but it does not describe the days as an evening and a morning, and it says in one verse that a day of God is like a 1000 years and in another verse that a day of God like a 50,000 years. So Muslims normally believe that the six days were long eras of unknown duration. One passage talks about creation in 6 days, but has a sequence that could be interpreted as adding up to 8 days, but that is interpreted traditionally as having two days overlap over other two days. So I don't know of any Muslims that teach the universe was created within the last few thousand years. If you know of any, please let me know. What I am saying is mainly from the notes to the translation of the Qur'an by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
However, many Muslims do teach that the theory of evolution is wrong. I have read a few days ago that in Turkey they have banned the teaching of evolution in schools. Turkey is becoming a much more Islamic regime and much less of a secular regime, contrary to the secular regime established by the founder of modern Turkey, Ataturk.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 27 2017, 6:23 PM 

It is plausible that our early ancestors invented the supernatural to account for (or blame) the natural phenomena that caused them distress but could not understand. Today, science taught us about the earth's molten core, plate tectonics, weather patterns caused by ocean currents, etc. We are now able to understand and explain these phenomena. To quote DeGrasse-Tyson, 'in the face of ever increasing scientific discoveries, God (the supernatural) has become this ever receding pocket of ignorance that is slowly disappearing'. It can be argued that man created god in his own image, not the other way around.

 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

Regardless of the reasons for false religions, God has revealed to us the true religion

July 28 2017, 5:01 AM 

through the Bible. The Old Testament has plenty of prophecies about the coming Messiah, and nobody came close to fulfilling them all, except Jesus. That is miraculous. That proves that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, sent by God.

 
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PuksainAngTaglish
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Infidel

July 28 2017, 6:18 PM 

For me, there’s a big problem if anyone claims to have the true religion (or way) and ‘holy book’. It is that everyone (INC included) claims it and all the others are wrong and are bound to the lake of fire. Many of them are willing to die for their belief. In my mind, they cannot all be right so it is very likely they are all wrong. For Christianity alone, there are Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, Orthodox groups, etc. Countless people have died due to their differences. Islam no better with the Sunni and Shia. There are at present over a billion Hindus alive, not to mention those who lived in the past considering the age of this religion. Is it their fault they were born in India and have not received the Gospel for salvation? Doesn’t that seem a bit unjust?

 
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Tomas
(Login TomasSedlacek)

It is sad that many Christians have misinterpreted the Bible, claiming it does not teach

July 29 2017, 3:27 PM 

salvation after death. The sad fact is that the right biblical interpretation was forgotten by Christians for many centuries, and it was not rediscovered until the 19th century, mainly through the biblical research of the preacher Charles Taze Russell. He found in the Bible, that it teaches that many will be converted after they will be resurrected, after Christ comes back. But some will be too evil to be able to repent and be converted, so those will be the people who will die in the lake of fire. So if you have relatives who have died and were not Christian, as I do, there is certainly hope that they will be converted and repent of their sins, as they will be taught by God at Mt. Zion the correct doctrines, as both Isaiah and Micah teach us in the Bible.
Still, it is good if we are converted already in this life, as this way we can be close to God, and God can answer our prayers and help us. So I hope and pray that this will happen to you. And if not, then I hope you will not reject God after you are resurrected. God is wonderful, and totally just. It is unfortunate that many Christians believe there is no chance of salvation after death, so this way they are making God look unjust, unfair. And that is certainly a problem with INC, the Catholic church, the Orthodox churches, and many of the Protestants. They are really unwittingly defaming God, and they don't realize it. They are making Christianity look bad. But more and more Christians are realizing the truth that there is salvation after death. Though some of them, not realizing the truth about soul death, believe it can happen soon after death, as they believe the souls of the dead are alive. That is wrong, but it is still good that they still realize that there is salvation after death, so they are not unwittingly defaming God.

 
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