As happy Pioneer DVR-A104 owner, I wasn't thrilled to read this:

http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=120651&display=breakingNews
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Quote: "The tug of war taking place over which rewritable DVD format will dominate the market appears to be finally working its way to a conclusion, at least on the PC drive side of the business.

Data from The NPD Group, Port Washington, N.Y., has the plus format handily dominating the PC drive market, while the RAM format controls the CE side."
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However, I did wonder who the @#*@ Twice.com are, and why they think DVD+R media is cheaper....

Yeah, I read that Pioneer has announced making dual format DVD burners so "customers can decide which format they prefer". As soon as I read that, I knew that meant that DVD-R was dead. You probably will be able to buy DVD-R discs for some time, but I was going to advise a person looking for their first DVD burner, I'd say to go with the + side of things because it sems that DVD+ won. From what I've read, it does seem that +RW is just a superior solution to -RW, although for -R and +R discs, one is as good as another.

I don"t think that is nescessarily true, It was the "Plus" format company"s that first decided to also Support the Minus format also, Like Sony who was a supporter of the Plus format who was the first to make drives like the Sony DRU-500A drive which supports Both Formats..And a couple Months ago Microsoft decided to support the Plus format But then a month later changed there Mind and decided to support Both Formats..And you Might notice that the Plus format Burners are Quite a Bit cheaper than the Minus format Burners which says something also..I think the Format wars are still a ways from over and I think the race is closer than poeple think, but only time will tell..I like the Minus format better for DVD-r"s but I like the Plus format better for DVD+RW, Probably because My DVD Player doesn"t like DVD-RW"s....Cheers

DVD-R already won...it is the only writable format officially recognized by the DVD forum...you know, the group that came up with the DVD standard...

Doesn't matter anyway. Everyone is making burners that support both formats. I prefer -R because it is still cheaper.

Yup it's cheaper and really the original standard.

I wouldn't be concerned about DVD burners now coming out with both DVD-R and DVD+R capability. It's just smart marketing .. they get both worlds.

All the computer shows I go to, I see huge stacks of DVD-R discs being sold and the DVD+R is usually just a few cake boxes.

Could just be the folks here in New England. You know those "frugal" New England yankees. Eh-yup!

But what about the fact that most desk set DVD players do not recognize the DVD+R format?

It has no use to send out messages based on personal emotions.

Compatability

An old messege from www.vcdhelp.com

DVD-R and DVD-RW
DVD-R/W was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with standalone DVD Players.
DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 89% of all DVD Players and all DVD-ROMs.
DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 72% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD-R/W supports single side 4.7 GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double side 9.4 GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
These formats are supported by DVDForum.

DVD+R and DVD+RW
DVD+R/W has some better features than DVD-R/W such as lossless linking and both CAV and CLV writing.
DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 83% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 72% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
DVD+R/W supports single side 4.7 GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double side 9.4 GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.

You can check your old model on compatability http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php

All new models will accept all stuff except DVD-RAM

My DVD player which is an old type (Pioneer DV525) accept DVD+R and DVD+RW without problems.

Actually there are just as many Standalone DVD Players that will Play DVD+R"s as will play DVD-R, it is something like 79% that Play DVD+R and 86% play DVD-R or something simular, I"m lucky Mine Plays Both but does have some problems with DVD-RW if they are version 2.0 DVD-RW....

A couple of extras:
1. DVD-Ram is a DVD forum standard as well and could play a more significant role because of Set top DVD recorders and players now coming on the market.(It's a gift with many DVD-R-RW burners)

2. What does anyone Know about HighMat?

3. I have not seen posts bragging about how their dual format burners burn cheap media.


"All the Best"
CaptKrunch

>>>I have not seen posts bragging about how their dual format burners burn cheap media.

No - indeed the forums remain clogged with weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth from their complaints about cheap media - stuff that burns just fine for me.

IMHO, it will be media price not DVD-format specs that win the "war" - anyone with well-chosen, newish player can play all the formats and the technical advantages of +RW are kinda minimal when the media becomes cheap enough to just burn a fresh disk and chuck the old one(does anyone still bother with CD-RW?).

Personally I use Sony's DRU-510A 'dual' drive - I wanted drive with '+' capabilities, using (for now) '-' less expensive media.

1) Two 'Standards' mean no standard. The longer we have two opposing camps the longer it will take for the drives to drop to affordable levels as far as the prices are concerned. The same goes for media.

So you invested in the '-' technology... In 1997 I bought my first CD-R drive - now I am on my drive No. 7. The point is to drive the prices down to levels of contemporary CD-RW drives - at that point I do not care whose patents I am using.

2) Your average buyer will not calculate cost savings on cheaper -R & -RW media as he or she contemplates the apparent dominance of +RW drives on the shelves, some with really tempting rebates.

3) I am also weary of 'we need cheaper media' crowd. What we really need is higher quality and more durable media.

4) To really get any of those technologies off the ground we need to show our support for all those companies fighting Hollywood studios and music companies.

I also have a Sony DRU-500A dual format Burner(Sony DW-U10A OEM of the DRU-500A and used a Firmware upgrade to make it a DRU-500A), and so far it seems to burn Cheap Media Quite well, it Burns "Princo,Ritec,Optidisk,DVDPro,Verbatum, Maxell,Sony,TDK" Disks Quite well, I bought one of those DVD Media Sampler Packs that had 12 assorted DVD-+R/RW Brands of disks and Pretty Much all of them Worked Fine, some after Upgradeing the Firmware from the DW-U10A to the DRU-500A, I only had Problems with Princo DVD-RW but I think that it was My DVD Players Fault..As for DVD Media Prices they are Fairly Cheap Now, about $1.00 to $1.50 each if you Buy in Bulk, I just ordered a 50 Pack of DVD-r"s off of EBay for $55 US includeing Shipping from Florida to BC Canada which is a Pretty Good deal(I think) I just hope I have as Much luck with these as I did with the Sampler Pack......Cheers

Interesting posts. I totally agree with Neutron that it's not a good idea to send out posts based on personal emotions. No offense, but what a lot of you guys are reporting simply is not true in other parts of the country. I live in a very large city in the southeastern US. Where I live:
1) DVD-R is NEVER cheaper than DVD+R. At best they cost the same.
2) DVD-R is significantly harder to find in stores than DVD+R. You can find DVD+R discs by a variety of manufacturers, but we only see Verbatim DVD-R discs here. Verbatim DVD-R discs are excellent so that's not really a problem.
Where I live, DVD+R clearly won the format wars.

Jason:
2 weeks ago I would have said the same is true in Florida but now the majors {Best Buy,Circut City, Office Depot, Office Max)are selling -Rs on sale ie 2 for 1 instant rebate etc which brings cost to around $1.00 to 1.25. they are also offering +Rs for roughly the same price but seem to alternate the weekly sales. I still see just a (-R) few burners but I was shocked and pleasantly surprised to find 5 disk Panasonic DVD player for $129 that reads just about everything including DVD-Ram. I am glad to hear that multiformat sony is burning the cheaper disks. Lucifer, have you had a chance to try any of -R cheapo's yet? As far as RW goes, I have only used the DVD-Ram for data backup. It's totally transparent and fast. Now that I have DVD Player that reads Ram available, I am excited about the concept of writeing an entire movie viewing it and them rewriteing a completly new movie up to 100k if you believe it just like a set top DVD recorder.
Calling all E20 and E30 users, any ideas on the process.
"All the Best"
CaptKrunch

Well guys I have no interest in getting into an argument, but two things:

>>Where I live DVD-R is NEVER cheaper than DVD+R.

On the online stores, which surely makes where we live fairly irrelavent (in the US at least) DVD-R is the cheapest media you can buy. (A lot of it may be crap quality, but if it works then hey...)

>>I am also weary of 'we need cheaper media' crowd. What we really need is higher quality and more durable media.

We already HAVE high-quality media - but at a hefty price. What we need is high-quality media that is cheaper.

Here are some Dutch onlineshop prices
I think situation in europe is different
Prices are higher in general I think

Cheapest DVD+-R in the Netherlands
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single writable DVD

HP DVD+R 4.7GB (each) Euro 2,-
Philips DVD+R 4,7 GB, Jewel Case (each) Euro 2,-
Datawrite DVD-R 4.7GB in DVD Box 4-Speed Euro 2,-
HP DVD+R 4.7GB, jewelcase (each) Euro 2,-
Sentinel DVD-R 4.7GB Euro 2,-
Princo DVD-R 4.7Gb in DVD Box 4-Speed Euro 2,-
Princo DVD-R 4.7GB (each) Euro 2,-

25 writable DVD´s

Blanco DVD-R 4.7GB, 25 stuks Euro 35, /1,40 each
DVD+R 4,7Gb Datawrite 25 pack Euro 36,-/1,44 each



Cheapest DVD burners in the Netherlands
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NEC ND-1000A DVD+RW (OEM) Euro 129,-
NEC ND-1100A DVD+R/RW (OEM) Euro 155,-
LG DVD-R-RW GMA-4020B Euro 179
Pioneer DVR-105 (OEM) Euro 181,-
Fujitsu Siemens DVD+RW 6001 (bulk) Euro 196
Pioneer DVR-A05 (Retail) Euro 213,-
Ricoh MP5125A DVD+R/RW Euro 215,-
NEC ND-1300A DVD±RW (OEM) Euro 235,-
Sony DW-U10A 4x DVD+R DVD-R Euro 244,-
AOpen DVRW2412Pro 2.4x8x12x10x32 Euro 245
4/2.4/12 Plextor 504A DVD+RW+R Euro 246,-
Philips DVDRW208K Euro 249,-
Sony DRU500A Euro 320