For a long time now, I am creating SVCD's and play them on my stand alone Pioneer 525 DVD player. For the first time I tried out MENU creation with the latest Nero. The resulting SVCD plays on the 525 but absolutely there is NO trace of the MENU. (Yes the SVCD has the individual tracks).

My questions are:

(1) Had anybody success with the set up above?
(2) Had anybody success with a SVCD (created by other means like i-author) that had menus and played on a Pioneer 525?

thanks in advance

Hi There,

Yes I did have succes but

- I live in PAL country
- did not use background image but only thumpnails or names

Did you check if the player is set to PAL/NTSC?
Select the Pal or NTSC option in Nero
by the way do you have latest version of Nero?


Erik

thanks for the response

* Yes I do live in a PAL country.
* My 525 switch is set to PAL.
* I checked PAL coding (in nero)
* yes very similar, I used too, black background + Thumbnails (5 of them)
* I am using Nero 5.5.1.8

Hi,
When Nero released the fixed version the first thing I did was to make an SVCD with menu. (I'm in the NTSC environment) It works fine for me when played back to a Philips 825 DVD set top player. I'm not all that happy about "how" it's compiled or it's layout, but it is functional.

Heck I even found a way to incorporate my own menu where I have the ability to finish a play item and return to the menu .. or play the next item. It's actually a "trick" and is cumbersome to do to say the least .. but it works after a fashion and most people can't tell it's "not really" the Nero menu .. <grin> I still have to document the technique but if you want some advanced information on how to do it, I'll answer your post here.

Yes, I finally managed to do it (needed to upgrade to 5.5.2.4) [Thanks for the tip].
Rich: Yes, I would be very interested in your technique. looking forward to your post!

Yes! Rich, I would also like see your post.

Okay, I'm really tied up until after July, but I found a "few" ways to do a kinda of "fake" menu and I'll explain it here.

First, when you create a menu, I believe all the set options exist .. I mean no matter what play list item you are playing .. if you hit "menu" on the remote it will return to the menu.

Also the <- Back and Next -> buttons on your remote will bring you either way (to the prior item or the next item) Then there are the "numbers". If you have a 6 item selection, pushing #5 at any time will bring you to the begining of what-ever you set up as #5 in your menu. So here's what I did .. (you're gonna laugh at how kludgy this is) <grin> BUT the effect is pretty good.

First I did a standard Nero menu. Before I started with the Nero menu, I made a nice background and it had a few "remote instructions" on it. I had a <-- Previous and --> Next and also a "Menu" option.

In Nero I set up the following ..

1. Introduction
2. Play movie
3. Coming Attractions

So I had it pre-designed so everything looked nice on my custom background. (I STILL hate those stupid lines though) But later I'll show you how to eliminate those too.

Next I burned a "quick" test disk to a CDRW.

Then I "ripped" the existing Nero Menu from it's folder.

You'll find it in the "segment" folder of the SVCD disc. It's usually called something like ITEM0001.mpg

I then took my mpeg Editor and made that Item.... into a short few seconds Mpeg clip. (Don't know if you really need to do this but I did)

Then I simply added that item0001.mpg (which was my menu screen) to the end of every item in the play list.
Note .. by that I mean in my editor, I joined the original mpeg play list items with my new 5 second menu.

I made a nice "merge" effect between the end of the clip and the menu so it had a nice transition. This was one of the reasons I took the extra time to make the original menu a few seconds long.

Now .. when you create the "finished" SVCD disc, go into each clip's properties, and change the delay time to Infinate.

Do you see where I'm going ?? What happens is that when you plop the disc into your dvd player, it will come up with the normal menu .. the same one that you "ripped" from the CDRW disc. So I now have this menu as follows:

<<<--- Previous Next --->>> <Main Menu>

1. Play Intro

2. Play Movie

3. Coming Attractions

Each numbered item now has as it's last few seconds the copy of this "menu" screen. And since I've selected "infinate" time play .. That screen will stay there until the viewer does something with his remote.

So from the first (real) menu I might select the number 2 (play movie) I enjoy it and when it gets to the end, there's a nice fade into what "looks" like the original menu. I say, "hmmm, let's see what's coming next week".

Even though I "really" haven't gone back to the menu .. (you can't do that with NERO) I get the same effect and functionality. While it's infinately playing that #2 clip's "end", should I press either #1, it will play the intro, #2 Play the movie again, #3 Coming attr. Or use the << or >> OR hit menu on my remote (and it will just go back to the "real" menu ..

Now since I've merged that new "menu clip" to the end of each play clip .. each clip will always end with a "display" that the viewer thinks is a menu, but all the remote functions still work.

Of course that's just "one" way .. I've got other ideas, but I think after seeing what I'm doing here, you can certainly add on it and come up with your own ideas. Just remember when making that custom backgroud to be used as the "real" menu background that you might want to add remote control info so the viewer can hit the < or > etc. By the way, don't confuse the "fast forward or reverse" with the remote "next and back". Different things.

Some things you can add .. Instead of making each play list item infinate .. you could set it for something like 10 seconds or so, and add text to the menu saying "make an optional selection or next item will play in 10 seconds".

Or make a different last scene (fake menu) for each clip. For example when you are editing the clips before using them in Nero, and you are merging the custom last few seconds (your menu) why not make each menu different? I mean since you have full control over what's on it ... You can add your own thumbnails with the needed clip # for selection. So at the end of say clip two in my example, I would have it say this:

<<--- Play Intro (1)
--->> Play coming attractions (3)

Or ... press <menu> to return to main menu.

Another idea .. since once you create the menu .. all the "assignments" are preprogrammed, (ie clip 1, 2, 3, 4, etc) something to try would be to make your OWN menu completely unique but having all the needed references to the "real" Nero menu. That's a way to get rid of the "lines" Plus you can position your selections "anywhere" on the screen. Then what you can do is make the original menu only play for a fraction of a second. (Haven't tried that yet) So you make clip #1 another copy of your custom menu. The original Nero menu you don't even bother to worry about ... Just create it and get all your menu selections programmed.

Now (what I think will happen) is that the thing will start up and the original Nero Menu (ugh) will be a brief flash .. followed by your custome menu which is now like this

1. Main menu
2. Intro
3. movie
4. etc.

If the viewer is in the Intro and he pushes EITHER # 1 or the remote's <menu" he is going to end up back at # 1 (the main menu) Now you have NO limitation as to HOW the menu is laid out. All you have to do is to make sure what-ever you print on that custom menu clip corresponds with the "hidden" Nero menu AND the typical navigation of a DVD player Remote control.

I tried the first technique and it works great. Plays just like a "real DVD". Well almost .. Nero doesn't have the ability to toggle between hot spots (like selecting a thumbnail) Rather Nero assigns a number to each thumnail and you can only use the numbers for selection.

Plus the other downside is that there is no way to have Nero play each item one after the other AND keep this menu system working. ie like ...

1. Intro
2. Movie
3. Coming Attra.
4. Play all

But still, doing it this way is a little better (for how I like it)

Lastly, IF you find you can have the nero main menu set for like a 1/2 second and have it go directly to your first play item (your new custom menu) then you really don't have to go through the trouble of doing a "test" burn so you can get a copy of the original Nero menu to use. If you are using your own custom menu throughout, then just plan ahead when you are merging your new menu clip to the end of each play item while editing.

Plus .. doing it this way (with the Womble editor's FX merging capabilities) makes for way cool transitions at the end of each played clip. It's much nicer to have the clip end and then watch the screen do a circular wipe or a merge or fade into the menu. Heck, with some "creativity" you can even add some PRE play transistions to the clips to give the effect of the menu slowly faaaaading into the selected movie.

Okay .. I'm done. Whew ..

To save you the trouble. I'll answer this before it's asked. No you can't get that Nero Item000x out of the folder BEFORE you burn the disk. While you are in the (S)VCD creation any attempt to copy, rename, move or otherwise use it, is not available. At least I haven't found a way to use it. That's why my first example requires to burn the temporary (S)VCD. Once it's burned then you can browse to it's folder and copy that clip for use as the "custom" menu.

IF the original Nero menu (the real one) can be made to not show (using a very very short play duration) then you really can get away with making your own fully custom menu and forget about having to burn a "sample" to get the nero menu screen. I haven't tested it yet, but if you right click on the Nero Menu and select "properties", just like the other clips, it has an option to set the display time. Don't know what would happen if you made it ZERO. (would be excellent for our purposes) It defaults to infinate.

Nice idea. I just tried to replace the Item0001.mpg file and succeeded. But, unfortunately the resulting SVCD did not display the "new" menu on the stand alone.

What I did is to substitute an Item0001.mpg from another SVCD. I managed to get the file on the burned SVCD's segment directory. The trick is: You start NERO. >> New SVCD project. Then you leave MENU disabled. By drag&drop you place your "Item0001.mpg" into the SEGMENT directory. You drag&drop track MPG files as usual. And then you turn to the Write dialog and just then you enable MENU. Presumably at that moment the system looks into the SEGMENT directory and finds an Item0001.mpg already sitting there. It decides to do nothing. You burn the CD and when you inspect the result you observe that your inplanted Item0001.mpg is there on the SVCD.

I thing there is another info (somewhere sitting in a file under the SVCD directory) about the menu MPG file. And thats the reason why it did not work.

Any idea?

You don't "replace" anything. I guess you don't quite follow. I tried to explain it quickly off the top of my head. Let me see if this is more clear.

If you do it this way, you'll see what I mean.

Forget about copying the Item0001.mpg. You are going to use Nero just like always.

Except.

You should make your own "clip" that is a few seconds long and is comprised of what you want your "custom" menu to look like. You'll need to do that with an editor of some type. Since it's so short I do all the creation in the AVI format (make the titles background, etc). Then use your mpeg encoder to encode it to a standard SVCD clip.

Now let's say you have three clips. Again ...

1 intro
2 movie
3 trailer

You simply use your editor to add your custom 4 or 5 second menu clip to the end of each of those.

So now #1 has included at the end .. (joined) the custom menu. You set that clip to play infinately.

When clip #1 ends .. it will just sit there showing the custom menu you made. Leave the original Nero menu alone. You "cannot" add stuff or change the existing menu in Nero. So LET Nero make it's own menu and you just add your custom menu to the end of each clip.

Ya know they say a picture is worth a thousand words.. <grin> I NEED a picture. ha haaaa.

It's like we are ONLY using the Nero menu to get the SVCD to have numbers and forward and back etc. available. Point is, you don't have to actually display the "Nero" menu to use your DVD player's remote. So create your own and stick it on the end of each clip. The effect will be one of always returning to the "menu".

There is an "error" in my theory. I was assuming that Nero would work like the old EZCD does. Thought the only problem was the creation of the Menu.

I just burned a few tests. While it does work by using your last and next button, there's something not working correctly.

(this is what I get for "jumping the gun") <grin>

I'll have to putz with it some more. Close but no cigar I'm afraid.

If it was doing things the way I "thought" they were doing things, simply putting each clip with an infinate time for play back, "shudda" still allowed your remote to function. Might be something I did wrong. Back to the drawing board.

Dear Rich,

I had understood your method completely. Though what I was trying to do is something else (yes I should have done two carriage returns int my posting :)) ) It was not a duplication of what you did. What I am after is somehow to "edit" the mpeg that corresponds to the menu and restore that one (instead of the original generated by NERO). If we can manage that then practically we do not need NERO's menu designer, at all. We can do it by any other means (Photoshop, or any other cool 2-D graphics editor). Then import it to any movie editor (Mpeg-cdr or Premier, for example) get it converted to MPEG and then place it as the ITEM0001.mpg. SO you have your own designed, home brewed menu.
Do you see my point?

Ah, yes indeed. I understand now. We are actually both trying to get to the same location by different routes. <grin>

This is where these forums are great .. a place to discuss the technical aspects of our interests.

Now that I understand, let me add that I've already been down that road. I've tried just about everything possible to somehow incorporate my own "menu" foreground in place of the Nero generated one. After failing that I went in this new direction.

I "thought" simply adding a few seconds of my own menu clip to the end of each play list and setting them all to infinate playback would accomplish that. As the clip ended the last frame would be displayed forever, (the custom menu) or until you chose a menu option. This worked for me in other programs. But I find it does not with NERO.

It "does" work halfway .. in that while you are watching that last frame, the <-- and --> (previous and next) remote control buttons work. But number selection, and "menu" doesn't. Keep in touch and let us know if you find any kind of work around. I will too. Thanks

One thing I will be trying is to set a long duration time instead of infinate .. Maybe the remote's functionality only works "during" an actual playback.

I'll try that tonight and report.

I like Rich's suggestion of adaping the way menus work in Nero. I'd love to explore it further. I am still stuck however with something mre basic though. Has anyone else had, and/or solved the sound lag problem I get with Nero on my standalone DVD player but NOT on my PC. when I make an SVCD it works fine on both PC and DVD machine. When I use the menu feature (of Nero 5.5)however, the sound is consistently delayed by about half a second from the picture.

I would say that there must be something wrong with the player. I have created dozens of SVCDs and VCDs
w and w/o menus using and NERO never experienced such a sync. problem. Very rarely when I got though, a CD brand which is exteremely cheep then my player (Pioneer 525) has a similar problem (regardles of the presence of a menu).