Re: AgreedFebruary 15 2009 at 2:54 PM
|Tim Graves (Login ggagga)|
SAGF Members 2004
Response to Agreed
Soft conditions - maybe take some spin off - but most of the time, those "soft" conditions do not exist. Playing on the west coast this time of year might lead to a few more soft conditions - but not normal.
Also - taking Tiger into example is a joke compared to the average touring professional. There are 3 factors influencing spin - angle of attack/speed, type of ball and type of club face. Tiger's speed is much greater than most (with a full shot) - that is why he must worry about his spin MUCH more than the average touring professional.
But that leads back to the original point - why would we need to hit a wedge or sand wedge out of the fairway and not first cut of rough - when the ball is sitting up - when we are not getting grass between the club face and the ball??? Why is more spin created off a tight fairway or a tight lie? You have said they don't want that much spin off a fairway - why would there be more spin off a tight fairway vs. a not so tight fairway - or grass isn't cut as low - even though ball is hit first.
Better yet - please explain this to me - dew on the ground - tight fairway - ball is dry, club face is dry - no spin. Take the same fairway - dry, ball is dry, club face is dry - a lot of spin with same shot??? If you don't know how to take dew on ground into consideration when hitting shots and expecting spin - you don't understand spin. Maybe spin is increased because of the pinching factor??? Oh ya - you guys said that didnt' exist. But you hit the ball first correct? Not the ground? So if you hit the ball first with a dry club face and dry golf ball and create no spin off a wet ground, and then you hit the exact shot with a dry club face and dry ball of dry ground - create a ton of spin - what is the differnce??? Please explain - would love to know???
Also - would suggest you do a little more research - you stated in your earlier post that most professionals do not use a Lob Wedge from fairways.... and then you bring up an example of a shot into a very soft green..... Apples and Oranges.
Here are the facts:
1. Most professionals carry a 58* lob wedge or greater.
2. All professionals will hit that shot of fairways over a sand wedge - because of the bounce.
99% of us will carry a 4 to 6* bounce on our lob wedges. In rainy/soft conditions, we might choose to change to an 8* bounce at the most. If you like, you can contact Titleist (Vokey wedges) and order my lob wedge - it is a TG grind, 60*, has 4* bounce on it, a C grind on the bottom, "legal" grooves without spin milled on the face and an M grind sole. Reason my grind is unique is I had Mr. Vokey take a little heal relief off so I could "lay" the club open a little more to create higher flop shots.
Our sand wedges range from 10* to 14* bounce - again - same reason as above.
3. Many of the shots off the fairway will be to tucked pins in corners or front of green. Meaning we practice continually hitting shots just past the pin or stopping dead on the pin - and we need the maximum loft to get to the corners, over the bunkers, etc.. That is obtained with the lob wedge.
You can look and look and research and research again and again and again - unless you have stood next to us and played with us you have no idea. Get in the ropes with the "big boys" - you will understand.
I heard this, I was told that, someone said this, I think I saw it....... not cutting it here. You can go on and on and on about this topic and look on the web all you want - when I am playing in my events, when I am practicing with PGA professionals, when we are working on the different shots - I know what we are doing.
Tim Graves, PGA
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- Data - Peter on Feb 15, 2009, 3:49 PM
- Re: Agreed - Herbert on Feb 15, 2009, 4:06 PM
- Re: Agreed - Tim Graves on Feb 15, 2009, 5:15 PM
- Spray - Herbert on Feb 15, 2009, 5:42 PM
- Re: Agreed - Herbert on Feb 16, 2009, 1:14 AM
- Original Point - Peter on Feb 15, 2009, 5:02 PM