Re: I don't know, he has an impressive set of credentials.
February 4 2006, 7:59 AM
Chaz
Whats the difference between their simple swing and their guru site and pure golf and their other site. The prices for the dvds are different.Also very interested in your input since I can not make a weight shift there may be some things that are useful.
There isn't supposed to be any on the backswing, which has the effect of putting a lot of coil, and stress, on my lower back when doing it.
You are then supposed to just have a weight transfer to the lead foot on the downswing to make the swing, this so far, isn't so easy for me, and physically doesn't feel that good either.
You have to remember, this "no weight transfer" isn't like the Symple Swing, or HSS where you start out with your weight already on the trail side, Purepoint wants you to have a balanced stance, and make the backswing without transfering the weight?????
Chaz gets to do things that most folks would have fun with!
February 3 2006, 4:55 PM
Chaz buys any and every club he even mildly is interested in.
Chaz gets any tape or DVD he wants.
Chaz moves from the frozen North and plays golf every day in the warm air of the Arizona Desert.
Now Chaz gets the "Head Guy" to give him private lessons.
Time and money permitting, I would do the same things
LOL, not that you are going to do anything that I say anyway.
I would advise you, if you like this to guy, to take a series of lessons over a decent amount of time, say 6 months. If you work hard on what he teaches you in the time between lessons, you will see improvement that you cannot imagine now.
I found that my problem with lessons was that I sometimes missed the real issue because I did not pay enough attention to what the main emphasis to correct a fault was. As thick headed er, I mean somewhat opinionated as you can be, I can see the same thing happening to you. So, my other advice is do what he tells you and pay attention! LOL, no offense intended!
Best Regards, Herbert
This message has been edited by gHerbert on Feb 4, 2006 12:02 AM
If this dude doesn't have me hitting at least a sucker's amount of good shots before the lesson is over, it will be over.
I no longer will suffer a fool's amount of frustration before I found out a swing doesn't work for me.
After all these years of trying the various ways to swing a club, I can replicate almost any of them for a short period of time. At this point in time, I know, when the nirvana swing has arrived, it will appear instantly, and be completely easy to replicate, all I need, is to be shown it !
This message has been edited by Chazman on Feb 4, 2006 3:10 AM
That's what makes it tough to be a golf teacher...
February 4 2006, 10:06 AM
A good teacher knows the second that he or she sees most students swing the club that the only hope is to completely break down the crap that the student calls a swing and re-build for oh, maybe a year or two. The problem is that most students think all they need is one little magic thing and boom they will have a perfect swing.
So, you have an interesting choice imho, you can face reality like some here have done and actually take the time to undo your swing faults and create a real swing through hard work. I mean blood sweat and tears under the guidance of someone who actually knows what they are doing, or you can go on looking for nirvana as you put it.
My advice has changed from my post above, I would advise you to drop this guy quick and go on looking for the quick fix, it is lot more fun to read about. Besides, I doubt that anyone really wants you to actually become good at golf, what fun would that be?
There is a big difference between a "quick Fix", and ...
February 4 2006, 11:45 AM
someone who can evaluate your physical capabilities and tailor a swing to what will work for you specificly, and not some generic "one size fits all" vanilla swing, that maybe completely out of sync with your body type, your tempo, and degree of flexibility.
I've learned that no one can become profecient with a golf swing after just one lesson. Any swing takes a long, long time to ingrain, and one lesson just ain't gonna do it.
Good luck to you Chaz, please keep us updated on your lesson and where you think it will lead you.
I have all the MA dvd's etc, but not yet had the chance to have a lesson in person - if you have a moment I'd love to hear more about your experience, my email is young049@planet.nl.
I am not a pure SS player, but have incorporated a few apects of the swing into my swing. But experimenting at the range, following the instructions very closely, I find this to be extremely easy and the learning curve very short.
Are you not overdoing something or misunderstanding something to the point where you have yet to hit ever a single clean shot. My guess is that you are overdoing the "rock and lock" routine, it is really subtle and can be easily overdone. I might also guess that you are introducing some degree of "hitting" into SS, when it is a pure "swing". Whatever the case, this is as close to an idiot proof system as they get. What don't you get?
I have experimented with the stance, the cock and lock, all the stuff they show as cures for the bad shots, and nothing works, I just can't hit the ball with that grip.
I think it may have something to do with my anatomy, when standing tall with my arms hanging at my side, my thumbs are turned inside and all of my knuckles face outwards, sort of like a gorillas.
Check the SS website and give one of these guys a call. They are patient and as nice as they come and maybe they can help you work through your issues. Don't give up on SS. I am very proud to report that my wife shot an 86 this week, and she never practices. She watched the SS video a few months back. and seemed to get it almost immediatelty. Before SS, she seldom broke 100.
Chazman - Could you give a quick rundown of some of the programs/teachers you have encountered, what you tried to accomplish therein, what result you obtained, what was lacking, and what calibre of golfer you became as a result?
NATURAL GOLF: took lessons from two seperate NGCIs, and amazingly they both taught completely different swings, one a pullers swing, the next a pusher(this was my first inclination that NG was a flim flam operation), both were more interested in making a commision selling me NG clubs then they were teaching the swing.
Gave this swing a full 6 or more years off and on, before I realized it was futile for me.
IMA, have both sets of swing tapes and the short game tape. Basicly all IMA is, in my estimation, is a CG swing with a palm grip, although I find the short game swing excellent, and is what I have been using for years.
HSS Best swing in the world, if every hole is a dog leg left.
BGG, what the original NG was supposed to be, only problem is, for me, the wide stance and reaching for the ball made me feel like I was a mechanical man, and I hit everything way short of my CG swing. If the stance and grip feels comfortable to you, Tom Sanders is the guy you need to see!
STC, Swing the Clubhead, by the Frankel Brothers. They teach the swing as a centrifigal force movement, not relying on positional teaching as a method. This method was originated by Ernest Jones, a famous one-legged instructor from the 30's and 40's. His is a hand swing, which I have had trouble with maintaing the proper tempo, although, the smoothest, longest hits I have ever experienced, have been with this method.
Gravity Golf, and the Redmond swing, two body swing techniques where the instruction is on the rotation of the body pulls the passive hands, arms, and club through the ball. Neither worked for me for very long.
Peter Croker method, a pure pusher swing, where at the top of the backswing, you throw the clubhead at the ball, similar to STC, but with a shorter backswing. For some reason, I am more consistant with this type of swing, if I actually overswing, then I do with an abbriviated one.
Symple Swing, an HSS like swing, with super strong lead hand grip. I have hit perhaps 1,000 balls in attempts to catch on this one, yet have not hit one clean shot in the attempt.
PurePoint Golf, have the DVD, and will be shortly taking a lesson from the head pro. Initial feelings from training from DVD, this one doesn't feel comfortable either.
Other methods I have tried and abandoned almost immediately, LPG, Darrell Klassen swing, the Blake Swing, Square to Square, etc etc etc.
Chazman,
Will you elaborate on Croker? I am trying Symple Swing with some success but it is all body turn and little right arm. I can only get my chest to 1:30, it takes all my teeth gritting strength to get to 2:00. And I can not get my right hand to not grip tight on the DS. Not trying to cork screw your back appeals to me.
All the info on him is 1995-96. Is he for real? It seems to me that every year someone comes out with the perfect swing gets rich and disappears.
What I'm looking for is an all arm swing. Tried LPG but not impressed.
Is your trail foot turned at least 45 degrees away from the target line. If so, try even more. The SS is a pure all arm swing, hate to see you give it up if this is what you are really looking for.
I'm confused; Joe says that SS is not an arm swing, it is all swinging your shoulders and upper body and you must get your chest to 2:00. With little right hand. I pinch my index finger and thumb but still on the DS have worn a hole in the top of grip with the side of my right thumb. Joe has never said why the right foot is flared 45 deg. I'm probably a little less.
My chest gets to 1:30 and my left arm is 4:00 or 5:00, flat against my chest.
Clyde
The SS is indeed an upper body swing. The upper body, specifically the shoulders, turn level and propel the arms. The arms and hands just go for the ride.
The lower body is dead quiet, just provides support. No intentional hip turns or weight shifts. You flare the trail foot as instructed to facilitate a better upper body turn.
You pinch you trail index finger and thumb in such a way that they barely touch the shaft or not at all. Keeping the trail hand quiet lessens the chances of hooking. This is a lead side swing for sure, not a trail side hit.
Very powerful and effective if you trust the motion and do it.
Crokers method is vintage a vintage pushers move, with a short compact backswing.
The whole jist of his method is to release (or throw) the clubhead at the ball from the very top of the backswing.
This is the complete opposite of Symple swing, in that instead of trying to actively keep your right hand out the the swing, this one is putting it in charge.
This method didn't work very well with me with the short backswing, but I have recently found that if I take the clubhead back over my shoulder, to paralell, yet not have my hands go higher then my trail shoulder (feels like you are wrapping the club around your neck in an overswing), I can make a much smoother, powerfull downswing by just using the throwing motion of my trail hand at the ball.
This move automatically makes the whole body do the proper shift and movement with out conciously thinking about anything.
You said last week:
"If this dude doesn't have me hitting at least a sucker's amount of good shots before the lesson is over, it will be over."
Now you say:
"The lesson was to be a free one for 15 minutes, so I can't fathom how that could be very effective anyways."
