I might have found the main problem in my swing right now. It's hard to describe though. I see now that the trail wrist on the backswing is supposed to cup or fold back the hand towards the forearm with the hand remaining in line with the forearm. Instead, I had incorporated a bit of wrist c0ck, which is the movement you get from a pistol recoil, for example.

This incorrect move has led to all kinds of adjustments and compensations. No wonder I could not even do Scott's IMA drills 1 and 2! Now that I see this, it's a real Homer Simpson "Doh!" moment.

It sure would be nice to have a real SA teacher nearby. What a pain.

is a critical part of SA all the way back to the original patent. The action of the trail wrist must be pure extension/flexion. The point of IMA drills #s 1 and 2 are to train you to a pure extension/flexion movement. NG and others have their own ways of training you to do this.

FYI - Though drills 1 & 2 have you do this movment actively (in order to train the movment) this is NOT something you do actively in the full swing (reference Scott's comments for drill #3).

Peter

I reviewed my IMA dvd closely, and realized I was gripping my lead hand too close to the fingers. Once I fixed that, the proper move with the trail hand became natural. I had a chance to play a quick nine, and it was like a minor miracle.

A big part of my problem is that I have dvd's from NG, IMA, and GGA. I was treating them as interchangeable swings and parts, and using one or the other to try to glean answers. As far as I can see, I'm sticking with the IMA stuff now. It works.

but in the case of swing systems not necessarily

Back in the archives I talk a lot about IMA as a 'machine'. The interaction of the bits is important in the same way that the interaction of your car's camshaft with the valves is important.

Glad the action became more 'natural' with the correct grip and that the results were good. If you need more on the grip check out Ask Scott #52.

One check on the lead hand grip - if it is correct then in the follow through position where the club is horizontal and your lead elbow is in front of your lead hip (and your body is in a proper impact position with your shoulders parallel to the target line), the club will not go past parallel to the target line (at least not without breaking your lead wrist). Also remember that the lead hand grip should be very firm - if you swing into high grass (like the fescue at the open) while holding the club with just your lead hand it should not twist in your grip.

Good luck

Peter

Is this where the club should sit against the lead hand? When I watch Master The Golf Swing, there is some confusion in my mind over what Scott is showing.

Did you mean to have a picture with your post?

Peter

Here's my position with a similar sized object:



You'll notice that by my watch there are 'wrinkles' in my hand. They are a result of tensing the muscle in that part of my hand (try moving your pinky 'up' from the illustrated position while resisting that effort). Scott showed me that 'landamrk' saying the club should rest on the finger side of that muscle when flexed.

THe key after this point is that there be an apx 20 deg. angle between the line of your knuckles on the back of your hand and the club when your hand is maximally adducted.

Peter

I'm glad, because that means my recent success is the result of the proper grip, and not just dumb luck.

This lead hand grip is quite a bit different from that taught by NG and Graves, isn't it? I had been using something more along their lines. For me, it was too easy to get the club off-plane. And I had to consciously work (what I call a manipulation) to keep the club on plane. Often I failed. But with the new grip, the club plane or path is very much "locked in" on the right line. It also supports, or I should say requires, the full straight line setup, which I had migrated away from with the old grip.

On one of the Moe films, he talks about being locked in. "Can't take it outside." That's how I feel with this grip.

If a wrist is adducted, does that mean arched downward, when in the handshake position?

I don't see much difference between Graves lead hand grip per their website 'Advanced Grip Instruction' photos and IMA. The photos show a club in the hand vs a narrow rod so their might be some room for various interpretations but I see the same reference to the muscle I mehtioned and a contact with the same point at the first joint of the index finger. Viewed from the other side there is an apx 20 deg angel between the line of the knuckles and the club. Pretty much the same.

NG, on the other hand, has taught a number of lead hand grips in its history. Some matched IMA (after all Scott was the first director of instruction for NG ) and some didn't.

Peter

Snowman and Peter - In your pictures where is the clubface located relative to your palms?

Tom

There have been a number of discussion in the past that make it clear that this is not necessarily a stright forward question because your palm (and the back of your hand) are curved when you're gripping the club. In addition Scott has a procedure called 'balancing' which you use to set your grip on the club and he teaches that the position relative to your grip to hit a particular shot (say - straight) may vary from day to day.

There is in addition a finer point about lead wrist position however in normal golf language my grip would be considered 'neutral'.

Peter

It was my intention to show where the 9:00 side of the handle sits against the palm.

xxx

Scigolf this week Ask Scott there is a couple of pictures of Scott's Left Hand Grip.

Ken

That request came from me. The lower photo shows something that confuses me. It looks like the left side of the handle is down onto the index finger. I will send him the link to my photo and see if he agrees or not.

a problem in photographs with a grip vs a narrow rod.

Peter

right picture of Scott's grip looks like his right hand is cocked. I have all the IMA dvds and the grip is hardest to get right. Especially if using anything other than 10 finger grip.
Paul

It's hard to get the grip right from Scott's instructions. You might, or you might not, get it. I was having trouble getting it. Right now I've only played 36 holes with what I think is the right grip, and it makes a world of difference in swing path, angle of attack, and a better release. I've hit some wonderful shots. They not only went where I wanted but felt the way I wanted.

I'm having minor discomfort in the lead hand, wrist, and elbow. I'm assuming it's because of new moves. But that's what prompted me to seek more info on just what the grip (hold) should be.

I'm also having to piddle around with the grips (handles) on the clubs to get something that matches up to this new hold. I don't think I will be going as big as Peter has. But I do think a midsize tapered grip is a good starting point for my size M hands. I like Tour Velvets myself. If I was in a dry area, I would rather have Tour Wraps.

Peter - What result do you get if your lead hand grip is too loose? Too firm?

Tom

but rather less consistency in general. Note that while the grip is tight your whole arm can't be tense. This is something else that has to be learned for some.

Peter