I'd love to hear about successful technique for greenside sand shots by SA players.
I struggled with what I think is too strong of a grip and too shallow of a swing for bunkers. I finally decided to do the basic open stance (about 30*), with the shaft leaning forward (along my toe line, not the target line) maybe even a bit more than the full shot setup. Face open, pointing to the target. And I grip down to the steel. In other words, I'm making a pretty conventional SA grip and setup, except I'm 30* open to the target line, and the face lines up with the target line. Ball position looks like it is in the center when I'm angled 30*. But if I turned back to parallel with the target line, it would be up by my lead foot.
My thinking was that in effect I was making my grip about neutral after the 30* open stance and open face are taken into account. The significance of the grip strength is that it is hard to get height with a strong grip. So if I'm coming into the ball with effectively a much weaker grip, the wrist hinging will be such that I can get the ball up.
And gripping to the steel and the outside in path to the target line both make the swing steeper into the ball. Which IMO is helpful.
I try to create a little extra steepness going back, then try to hit the backside (bounce) of the wedge on the sand, driving the clubhead under the ball in that fashion. And a short arms follow-through.
Now, that might sound like I know what I'm doing. The reality is, it works better than anything else I've tried, and that's about the best I can say at this point. I'm still a mediocre sand player. I imagine there is a better way. For sure I want to hear from good SA sand players.
considering that I use 2 different sand techniques - IMA and conventional.
For conventional I open the face and open my stance and look to insure the back of the clubface (bounce) hits the sand first.
For IMA the face is square, my stance is square and I look to insure that I set the bottom of the arc correctly and that I piston while keeping the bend in my trail wrist. For shallow greenside bunkers you can even pick the ball clean given the solid bottom of the arc with IMA technique. I used that quite often in FL where there seemd to be a lot of shallow green side bunkers.
I find I'm not able to get the ball up as quickly with the IMA technique (though Scott was able) and that's the reason for 2.
I also find that the IMA technique requires more practice and in the specific bunker sand to develop the feel for how large a stroke for a particular distance. My local range only has sand box type sand in the practice bunker and that is not at all like the bunkers on the courses I play.
Yeah, I don't find the square Moe method to be very portable. Sounds like the IMA method is similar.
I was happy to figure out a way to use my normal SA grip and get good results, from the open stance. From a search on "sand" at GGA's forum, it seems Tim Graves teaches the exact same method which I stumbled upon myself.
it is like the method Moe used. I think it can be portable with practice but you have to have the practice in the different sands on the courses you play. When you use the bounce the club is freewheeling through impact. That's not the case with the square method so you need to know how hard to push to get the clubhead through the sand.
But when you get it...I noted right after my refresher with Scott how sharp and clean his divots in the sand were vs mine. Sharp and clean and CONSISTENT including a consistent depth (about 1/2" below the surface).
I never had much use for the 56 and sold it to a buddy who improved his bunker play with it. Anyway, I got inspired from watching Ken Martin's video, so I dusted off the 60* club and headed for a practice bunker.
It was pretty darn automatic. Towards the end of my bucket I was able to hit shots that carried 10 yards, 15 yards, 20 yards, somewhat on command. Trajectory was not real high but not bad. Medium I guess, say maybe 6 to 8 feet high. I learned that when I made an effort to keep the trail wrist bent all the way through impact and pushing down, I got more height, along with more sand. It's hard to get it too deep no matter how you enter the sand or push. I don't know what it would be like in real fluffy sand, though.
From the Golfworks line, I think if the 60 had the extra bounce that the 56 had, it'd be very good for this method. I went ahead and bent my 60 to 62, to give it a bit more height on the shot and a bit more bounce angle on the sole. I tried it again and it was very nice.
I'm going to stick it in my bag. Now I have to figure out what to take out. I like my lob wedge. I like my sand wedge. I probably will split the difference and carry a weak sand wedge, like 57-58*, with not much bounce.
Has anyone here tried the Sandy or similar club? Tried a similar method? Peter, which method is your default?
I find that I have to use the IMA, square-face method on my local courses who have shallow bunkers with coarse, gravelly sand. If you open the face up in those bunkers you'll just ricochet the club into the back of the ball. However, on the courses with deep soft sand, I have to use the conventional open-face technique. The IMA method causes the club to dig into the sand and the ball won't come out. I think with the IMA method you have to hit about 1/2" behind the ball in deep sand and that's too much precision for my abilities.
and with the crappy sand that I am usually hitting out of the shoes are probably as good a reason as any...
The worst is when the sand is dry and looks loose and you dig in a little and everything feels good so you hit a nice explosion shot and there is about 1/4 inch of sand over hardpan where the ball is sitting. Blade city.
Stan -- need a little advise on the Sand Putter. Do you actually hit out of the sand using a putting stroke, or do you use the club with a chipping stroke? I've got a Sand Putter that I bought in a garage sale some time back. Tried using it once or twice, but had very little luck. Maybe I'm just using the incorrect stroke. Would appreciate any comments.
If the ball is sitting up on the top of the sand then I try to chip-putt the ball out as long as the lip of the sand trap is not over about two feet high. If the ball is sitting down then I will hit behind the ball and use an explosion shot the same as I would with a regular sand wedge. I am not really that bad out of the sand it is just that it is the worst part of my game. After all when I am playing well and making mostly pars and a few birdies with an occasional bogey and every time I hit a sand trap I only have about a 25% chance of getting up and down for par it gets frustrating.
If you dont like that Sand Putter I would be interested in buying it from you.
I'm very happy with a recent switch to the Moe method. Go to moenormangolfacademy.org, click on Online Instruction, then page down to click on Concepts, Equipment, Aim, then Greenside Bunker Shots video.
Somewhere in there you will be asked to logon, or register if you have not already. It's worth it, IMO.
Then go back to the Moe's Short Game section and view his Bunker Shot video.
It is not an easy site to navigate but the info is there. Please notice in Ken Martin's video how he does not let the clubface turn over in the follow through. In my short experience, this is a critical element. Hit behind the ball, drive the club down and forward, and don't let the club turn over. This method is silly easy.
Of course they are advocating the Sandy wedge. I can see it might be helpful in the very fluffy sand they are using, especially in the Ken Martin video. I've been playing in midsummer hard/thin sand. I'm using the Golfworks 1.62 UC 60 degree wedge that I linked to earlier in the thread. I've actually bent it to 62 degrees to add some more bounce. Today a box will show up with some other similar Golfworks heads so I can experiment.
The wide sole with a good bit of bounce angle makes the shot quite easy. You have the Slider so you can make that do the same thing. Although, I do like the 60* much better than 56* for this shot.
Oddly enough, learning this motion has helped me with a "conventional" sand shot. I no longer feel I have to make a big swing when using that method. I just open the clubface and the stance, and make a similar move through the ball. I will need this in deeper sand, I think. I won't know till I get some good sand to try.
You're just missing some simple aspect of the shot. Watch the videos and see if you can find it.
My St Andrews instructor - poured about 1/2 a 55 gal drum of balls in a trap and said 'see you in a few hours"
Also (at least my author) of the story - when I was complaining about the pot bunkers - "shouldn't hit it in there"
He connected my bitching with my 10 years in the US.
Another nice story - supposedly when Jack Nicklaus was playing a practice round -" is this an 8 iron?"
Caddy - "yes, if you hit it right"
Tough these Scots.
