You had asked for a pic of Ams with head forward...thanks to Bobky here ya go:



Has a bit of the Y thing going on too.

Thanks, I knew you could do it!

Looks to me like his trail knee is back a bit and his head is ok though not reversed! He does have fair spine tilt and his lead leg is good.

What would you do to 'correct' this position?

How did the clubhead pass thru the ball without moving it?

What does the next frame look like?

edit: Another question:

If his head was back over his trail knee would he be in better position or worse position?

Regards, Herbert

This is a still snapped from bobky's recent youtube video of his tuesdasy night group. The club and ball look that way because of the "strobe effect" from doing a screen shot of a video - check out the video yourself - you can use the pause button.

This guy probably has been swinging this way for a long time. He may in fact have a very repeatable action that allows him to keep the ball in play and score well with other aspects of his game. It wold be interesting to hear from bobky what kind of scores he shoots. So the answer to all your other questions is: Begin learning the correct way to swing a golf club, and then practice enough so that new habits can replace old ones. Obviously there are some fitness/flexibility issues also.

All these things you ask about are all interrelated, and nose over knee isn't a cure all. It may be a symptom or a problem, or a "both/and". I just posted the pic cause you so desperately wanted one! You can answer your questions for yourself.

My humble opinion is that if this fellow kept his nose back over his trail knee he would either slice or pull hook the ball if he managed to hit it all while he was falling backwards. This is why I think that the advice to keep your nose over your trail knee is bad in many or most cases. As you well know and have said 'nose over trail knee' is a check point that can be useful for swing diagnosis. It is not a very good swing thought in most cases and would be disastrous in some.

So I as far as I can see we agree in principle and there is no 'argument' here???

As for the blurred clubhead that is caused by not having a fast enough shutter speed which is odd given the excellent camera used? Or maybe this fellow is magic and can pass the clubhead thru the ball without hitting it!

Regards, Herbert

worst advice for an intermediate golfer --I think can be from looking at still photos and trying to "get" in that positiion ------ pros with established swings probably benefit from video review ---

for any golfer that wants to develop a 'fine golf swing' is that they ignore the positions they achieve and those they should achieve.

Peter

are ACHEIVING these positions and you are a complete expert in them , like you are --then what is not working in your swing what is the failure (failure being defined as the ball flying outside a reasonably acceptable line of accuracy and distance ) nobody on this forum seems to be posting exceptional scores that follows your advice. The simple amswer is (science says it is usually "always" the correct one) ----- most simply dont have the coordination to strike a golf ball well over and over, seeing as you must constantly change club lenth , ball position , etc etc,
I am dumb enough to keep trying however!!

most simply dont have the coordination to strike a golf ball well over and over...

and that is why it's better to do it in a way that does not require exceptional coordination. Of course if you insist on doing it in a way that requires exceptional coordination that is your choice.

As to score - if that is your goal you should be participating in short game discussions and not have your obvious level of concern about the full swing.

Nuff said.

Peter

each shot would be struck with the idea of lowering your score --- you obviously think the idea of golf is to post photos of positions so as to discuss their angles and asthetics -- you are very good at that , I must admit.

the idea in golf is to hit an excellent shot each time you hit a shot. Some think that any shot that lowers their score in a round is an 'excellent' shot. A 'skanked' iron that never gets above head high and has no spin but rolls 20 yards onto the green and goes in the hole was an 'excellent' shot. You seem to fall into that category. I don't.

Many people including some here have spent years looking to lower their scores without ever learning to strike the ball correctly. Some are very successful by your standards however a low index still does not mean they strike the ball correctly, however if they are happy with their achievement then that is all that matters because for the vast majority golf is an amusement. What amuses me is ball striking and that starts with consistent, clean contact which tour pros achieve. Comparing the positions of tour pros vs yourself or amateurs in general clearly shows differences that result in different results.

You seem to have no understanding that someone might be amused by something other than low scores. As a result you 'throw stones' at any discussion that is not consistent with your perspective. A simple answer to this is to start your own forum that focuses on your goal - all conversation would only focus on how to lower your score.

'Nuff' said.

Peter

in your "evaluation" of me -- I love to try to strike a ball correctly ---to me it is the only real way to improve , especially to a really high level. I intently look at all aspects that might cause that to happen.
I know of no one who can scull the ball to a 68 you might have a different experience.
You do seem intent that anyone that disagrees with your methodolgy "start their own forum"
There are numerous people on THIS forum that use the method you think is best ---some of them post THEIR scores so they must be of some concern to THEM --Iam not critisizing their results--I am looking for what part didnt work right --- or did work right
It is a coincidence that I also find your ballstriking amusing.

your posts are not consistent with your evaluation of yourself.

Others here have shared their experience that people can strike the ball poorly and get to scores below the 68 that you reference. I've pointed that out to you on more than one occaision and again you make a statement as though this had not been shared.

You have consistently denegrated the results of people here that have discussed their improvement despite your statements to the contrary. Your posts give no indication that you are looking for anything other than an opportunity to criticize anyone that has not improved to the level of a tour pro.

That is the reality of your posts. There has been little constructive and there is no reason to continue with posts from someone who's only contribution is negative.

'Nuff' said.

Peter

your arse one more time lad. Did you even look at the video? You haven't because if you did you could have stopped it at impact using youtube's pause button in the original. It is very nice camera work by bobky and the blurred still is a result of loading the video into my v1 software and is a limitation of that process. GO TO THE ORIGINAL VIDEO ROSCOE.

You should really learn to STFU unless you know what you are talking about...you look very silly trying to make others look silly!

Swing thoughts? Give me a break....you know where I stand on this. ANY THOUGHT OF THE SWING WHILE PLAYING IS A BAD "SWING THOUGHT". Nose over knee, bent trail wrist, master move, etc all are TRAINING THOUGHTS ( OR AT LEAST THEY SHOULD BE). They have no place while playing golf. A golfer who tries to think about and consciously direct the swing is doomed to playing a shot that is less than optimum relative to his a potential. The science outside of golf regarding the inhibiting effects of thinking about a motor activity while trying to perform same is clear....and don't ask me to post it ( some has been already )....you are on your fuh keen own! (I did you a favor with the OP.) Find it and read it for yourself. Of course you probably shouldn't bother - you would ignore it any ways!

Final answer....

What was it that I said that you thought was an effort to make others look silly?

Why do you think that I would ignore the science outside of golf regarding the inhibiting effects of thinking about a motor activity while trying to perform same? I am curious what I have said that would give you that idea?

I get the feeling that you believe that I am your mortal forum enemy? If so I need to get geared up for war! It could of course take many years and cost thousands of lives but I will do what is necessary to protect my family!

BTW thats Mr. Roscoe to you!

Regards, Herbert

If he had reversed his chin per Bertholy his head would be
over his trail knee. Head over trail knee is way over-rated.
This guy just lets his head ride with his shoulders. He
probably could beat us both from the blues.