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Speed Chain - Happened Again

February 28 2011 at 4:10 PM

Mcirishman57  (Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Been meaning to post this up since it happened.

The speed chain folks say increased club head speed can happen soon after using the chain, and sometimes the increase is immediate. This happened to me when I used the chain once and saw an immediate increase of 5-8 mph, and based on feedback from other members here that have contacted me since the test, correlates to their experience also.

When I reported my results, there were of course some naysayers. Met with fellow Blueprinter Rick (and member here)a few months ago, clocked his speed before. At the end of our session showed him the chain and had him do a couple sets, then just told him to "move the chain" in his real swing with driver - about 6 mph more.

Last weekend, met fellow Blueprinter sebain, the one who loaned me his chain for the test, and he was clocking 105 on his best driver swings. Showed him the over speed club and the chain, had him do three sets. He clocked swigs of 111, 113, 115, 111.

How it works I don't know, just know it does.

Kevin
"A Blueprint For Golf Excellence"
Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!


    
This message has been edited by mcirishman57 on Feb 28, 2011 4:12 PM


 
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Herbert
(Login gHerbert)
SAGF Members 2001

Re: Speed Chain - Happened Again

February 28 2011, 4:21 PM 

I have had similar experiences swinging a mop and I imagine that the swing fan will probably give similar results.

Regards, Herbert

 
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Mcirishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Gains maintained / increased? Progressive overload?

February 28 2011, 5:00 PM 

Mops, fans and weighted clubs fail to meet several criteria for training for increased speed - progressive overload and specificity. So my guess is that you quickly topped out after the initial gain was achieved...assuming of course you continued with your "mop training".

How long did you mop train for? Do you still mop train? Have you been able to maintain or increase your swing speed by mop training? I don't want to assume, but you have stated in the past that swinging heavy devices cause you to shank, so my guess is that you didn't mop train very long with this heavy mop.

Mops, fans, and heavy clubs are the same weight so the "effects of gravity do
not allow the user to obtain resistance in the downward direction because gravity is assisting the downward movement." (quote from speed chain site)

Speed chains train the stretch shorten cycle by providing maximum resistance when the force levels are highest and low resistance when these levels are lowest. This is a learned process, but it is hard to teach or learn this though ordinary means.

Kevin



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!


    
This message has been edited by mcirishman57 on Feb 28, 2011 5:10 PM


 
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Herbert
(Login gHerbert)
SAGF Members 2001

Re: Gains maintained / increased? Progressive overload?

February 28 2011, 10:48 PM 

Swinging a mop was advised by a college golf coach who spoke at a tournament that I played in a good while back. I swung a mop off and on for many years sometimes in a rather disciplined fashion. I don't know if the work increased my over all swing speed or not as I was doing a lot of other stuff to try to increase speed also. All I know is that I verified a one time substantial increase in speed in my own swing using the radar device. I picked up 10mph on the same effort swing after swinging the mop on several occasions. This was always in the morning and the starting speed was the same each time. A friend also did the same. I thought that at least some of the gain was due simply to getting loosened up.

I do use a light mop.happy.gif Swinging at speed with the light mop does not require the same muscles to be contracted to keep the mop up in the air in the impact zone that I believe to be a problem. It is not like swinging a heavy sledge hammer or doing slow motion work with a very heavy swing pipe. The mop and I would imagine especially the fan do resist on the downward part of the swing so I disagree with the speed chain site. Anyway I always thought that since you are training to retain in that part of the swing so the heavy object is actually working more in your favor. Something that I believe that you have pointed out in the past. Unless of course we don't really want to retain anything? I am serious about this one, no intention to be sarcastic...

I don't have any opinion on speed chain other then what I have read about it here and elsewhere. I do believe that I would like to give one a try sometime.

Regards, Herbert


 
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Mcirishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Speed Laws - I'm just reporting

March 1 2011, 7:39 AM 

I gained tour average club head speed just doing the basic Blueprint/Bertholy programs: Static holds and slow motion exercises and swing drills that focus on proper sequencing and tempo, and started out using the heavy swing pipe. My whole frame of reference and experience was heavy and slow, and when it was first suggested to me that to "be fast you must train fast" I resisted - surprise surprise right? happy.gif

Gradually I opened my mind to the possibilities of speed training and using info from Barrda here and the Titleist performance Institute as guidelines, built my first over speed club and began training with it. I gained another 5 mph in a short period of time.

I had decided that I would try the speed chain based on the (over the top) testimonials and reviews of many LD devotees and it just so happened one of my readers had one - so I did the test. The gains with this method were significant, and more than one member here has witnessed the reported gains.

There is no doubt that anyone will swing faster after warming up and they get loose. it also isn't a good idea to perform any explosive athletic movement with cold muscles!

This is what the chain folks say on why the speed chain is so effective, because it meets these four criteria fro increasing speed as identified by scientists and bio-med sports performance experts outside of golf:

1. Movement pattern must be exact or as similar as possible to the athletic motion involved. Movement pattern is simple to see. Pulling a rubber band will not effectively strengthen ones swing because the movement pattern is too disimilar. Rubber band resistance has a linear path, whereas swinging a golf club is a circular, rotational movement on many planes.

2. Contraction velocity must be similar to the event. Velocity is easy to see. Turning with or throwing a medicine ball is very slow in comparison to the swinging of a golf club. Yet many golfers in an attempt to increase clubhead speed, do exercises with it. If the exercise is done too slow, how will you move faster during the swing?

3. Contraction force must be higher than the event. Force is difficult to measure without the use of high tech biomechanical equipment. But understanding that one needs to overload somewhat to get a strength benefit is logical. The problem arises when one overloads too much and velocity slows down, which in turn decreases the amount of force. This is the problem with weighted clubs like the Momentus which is so heavy that high velocity cannot be attained. Thus more power is unlikely to be found here.

4. Contraction type must be the same. Contraction type is extremely important since explosive movements use the stretch-shorten cycle. The stretch-shorten cycle is the short, rapid stretching of the muscles prior to a forceful contraction and is present in all explosive movements. Proper weightlifting techniques discourage this type of contraction. Therefore training benefits are minimal for speed.

So the info is there and the research is abundant for anyone to bounce off of the statements above.

Regarding you trying one, you may be in luck. Several of my readers (including one long time and highly respected member here) are going to be implementing a chain training program once they can get outside. A couple of them are going the home brew route and fashioning their own speed chain. Once I get the info I will report back.

Kevin



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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Robert
(Login svensknlp)

it works due to

April 9 2011, 5:26 AM 

"How it works I don't know, just know it does."

There isnt a ball in play when you do such speed drills,
that allows the motion produced to be more smooth and cordinated than with a club and ball.
the chain of the sequence is then better due to the lack of visual stimuli in this case the ball.
people get anchored to antipicate the hit more than to swing, and adding technical sequence with swingdrills also tends to elevate a limitation on the muscle firing.

I would also bet it leads to a better tempo for the player.

no secrets just ignorance.

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Except for the fact

April 11 2011, 7:30 PM 

that the OP talked about the golfer increasing his club head speed HITTING A BALL AFTER using the speed chain! It wasn't real clear in the OP so perhaps that is why you made the post you did. Let me clarify.

We met for a session and hit balls. We hit balls and all session we record one speed...then do some reps with the chain..then they hit balls again, they record a higher swing speed. Obviously this had nothing to do with the ball and the "anticipation of the hit" did not slow their swing speed down. It had to do with them somehow learning, in a very short period of time, a more optimal way to move their bodies - which produced higher club head speeds.

And by the the way, some "swing drills" are done so as to diminish the golfer's pre-occupation with the ball. In fact, some would even say that they would view the golf ball as "incidental to the whole process" of making a good golf swing. Did you know that most long drive professionals record higher club head speeds when hitting balls than when swinging "dry".

And I do agree that consciously thinking about a technical sequence while trying to execute a swing is an absolute guarantee to produce less than optimal firing and execution of the swing. That is why I teach my players to disengage the conscious mind from any golf swing thoughts at all when making a swing.

Like you said...no secrets....just ignorance.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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Robert
(Login svensknlp)

we

April 12 2011, 10:57 AM 

are in agreement.

the speed increase is due to a better impact release and my bet would be on lighter grip touch.
as that would be the dominator and indicate a better sequence in the release action.

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Many LD guys also

April 12 2011, 4:34 PM 

prefer LARGER GRIPS...the reason? They say the larger grips are easier to hold on to, which they reason makes it easier to swing with relaxed forearms...makes sense. They all wear gloves too, and I can personally testify as to the performance improvement in driving distance gained by wearing a glove versus not wearing a glove. I have been a "no glove player" for years...but now for driving and all full shots I will probably wear one in all competitive events. I just won't practice with one because I can't afford a new one every two weeks!

They also prefer LIGHTER SWING-WEIGHTS for their clubs... this makes the club feel lighter to them as they swing it. Many LD guys train with lighter than driver over speed clubs. So perhaps the lighter swing weight in their competition driver more closely represents to their feel what their training experience has been, and the make a better "connection" to the motor nueral pathwyas for speed they have been training for.

I don't know of any studies to substantiate either of the two phenomena mentioned above, but this is what they do....

It would never happen, but it would be great to get all of them together and set these guys up with all kinds of different rigs and see if in fact they do hit some farther than others on a consistent basis. My guess is that some things would make a difference and some things would be ggod for some players and not for others.

kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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Robert
(Login svensknlp)

the

April 13 2011, 7:59 AM 

hands and tension decide the sync or timing to occour at what rate your able to maintain the same touch which gloves, grip etc..helps you to have a looser grip which allows a better relaxed wrist and fingers which again allows a better lag or position at impact ie more speed.

Its a strong correlation between griptouch (tension) during the swing and the amount of speed/impact is affected.

 
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Herbert
(Login gHerbert)
SAGF Members 2001

Questions

April 14 2011, 1:22 AM 

Hi Rob,

Are you playing scratch golf ?

Are you still using simple swing?

Regards, Herbert

 
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Robert
(Login svensknlp)

no

April 14 2011, 2:54 AM 

I dont use simple swing atm.(nothing wrong with it)
I took 5 lessons for my first time last year (PGA type) and fully rebuild my swing to match pro level criteria.
Swing in March was 3 handicap according to the pro since I hit the ball better than his low handicap friends.
Added since a left heel raise and are basically doing a mike austin like swing today. (step and trow)

I expect to be scratch this year or close to during the season.
(9 index currently) I need a 3 index to qualify for the local pro tour, which is the first criteria to match.
Reason for the above was golf swing distance training/practice didnt work.
I needed hands on practice.
Working with the local pro allows that with proper feedback.

I played well last year, but was short in the begining, changed and re-did swing and become long but all over with a lack of consistency.
identified the proper tempo indoors in my january lesson and has since then worked the tempo.

March spain. Not much hip action.
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

April working the motion. no range open atm.
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]





 
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Herbert
(Login gHerbert)
SAGF Members 2001

Re: no

April 14 2011, 11:01 PM 

Nine index is not so bad. It takes a while to learn to score even when you have the swing down and I am guessing that you still have some work to do on that aspect. Good luck in your quest and enjoy the journey!

Regards, Herbert

 
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Allen
(Login allenws)
SAGF Members 2000

I finally

April 18 2011, 10:53 AM 

got out the speed chain this weekend and tried it for the first time. I also saw about a 6MPH gain in average club head speed after using it for only one training session. This was measured while hitting balls with my Swing Speed Radar.

I do have some thoughts as to why it helps so quickly with swing speed. I've used heavy clubs, swing fans, mops, etc. in the past, but the feeling of the chain is quite different. The heavy club gives resistance only in the direction of gravity which is not a significant component of the golf swing. The swing fans and mops give the most resistance when the device is in a vertical position and very little when the club is in the horizontal position (top of BS and 6/100's).

The speed chain gives a ton of resistance immediately as you start the down swing (unlike the fan/mop.) It also seems to be consistently pulling back against the direction in which you are swinging until well after impact. This seems to offer a couple of major benefits over other devices.

  1. You have to use core muscles to get the chain moving back towards the target. You cannot accomplish this using your arms ... they just aren't strong enough. This teaches you to use a body centric swing instead of an arm swing. I could feel my stomach muscles tighten as I tried to move the chain. Emulating this feeling in the real swing added some speed.
  2. It forces a stretch between upper and lower body as you begin the DS. Bertholy called this the master move. Again, emulating this in my real swing really added some speed. For the first time it gave me the feeling of properly starting the DS with the lower body while leaving the arms/hands back in place. I could then try for maximum separation in the DS in a real swing. The more I could make this happen, the faster I got ... and the straighter the resulting drive.


I also noticed a big drop in the std. deviation between my swing speeds after using the device. I started with about a 20MPH deviation which dropped to about a 10MPH deviation.

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Just had a thought to compress time frames even more

April 18 2011, 4:45 PM 

Since you are a Blueprint and Clearkey advocate combine your workouts with a "32 ball exercise" type routine.

For your manual conscious reps, do a group of chain reps. Then , grab your driver, and hit four shots on Clearkey. For your pre-shot instruction, give your self the command..."I want to swing my driver like I move the chain", visualize it, then switch to automatic begin your clearkey and smack your driver.

I am thinking this will make your assimilation of the new speed pathways even faster and I am kicking myself for not thinking of this before now! Geeesh!

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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