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Natural Golf

June 1 2012 at 9:33 AM
Jerry  (Login thinkin2)

 
Are any of you still using it and are you still using it by the old teachings or have you modified it? Also, are any of you using NG clubs or have you modified other clubs. I occasionally still fool around with it and I have two sets of their irons (original and pipeline irons and a becu 5 wood). I have always though that NG was a pretty good way to play but truthfully, I don't play with it but only fool around with it from time to time. There are times, especially when I'm not playing well, when I think about going back to it, starting from the beginning and staying with it.

 
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Don M (Snowman)
(Login Snowman9000)
SAGF Members 2006

I use it

June 1 2012, 7:12 PM 

I use NG. Of course there were several generations of NG. I came to it during the time of the Ron Jaworski "7 Minutes To Better Golf" DVD, and that is more or less what I use. Later they suggested moving the lead hand grip down to the fingers. Eventually my NGCI had me do that.

I tried IMA and felt it was pretty close. But his drills were counter-productive for me. I also tried Graves. Just IMO, he probably has done a great job of breaking down what Moe did, but that doesn't mean it works for others. Some of it is probably just Moe-specific. I couldn't get anywhere with it, and it actually set me back.

That's the thing, we somehow have to find a way to swing that is natural and effective for us as individuals. IMA is good. Graves is good. But they didn't fit me. The NG drills, as much as they were mocked at the time, work very well for me. I found my old CI, took two lessons, and this year am getting back to hitting it better with my arms taking the lead, as Ken Martin also advocates.

I have never owned NG clubs. Any regular clubs will work, as long as you get fitted for lie angle and flex, just like any other golfer. I build up the lower portion of my grip to take out a lot of the taper. I've messed around with grips WAY too much, it's been a wild goose chase.


 
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(Login psomers)

NG and Graves

June 2 2012, 9:31 AM 

Keep going back and trying these methods with little success. I know it is something I'm not understanding. I can't swing with arms and club weight that far away from body with out losing balance.
The pitch Graves states about all pros being SA at impact I don't see. I think it appears that way because hands are so far in front of club head. If they set up low hands and hit with hands high wouldn't divot be heavy on the toe?
Paul

 
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No

June 2 2012, 1:40 PM 

Club lie is adjusted for impact not address.

Peter

 
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Don M (Snowman)
(Login Snowman9000)
SAGF Members 2006

NG vs Graves

June 2 2012, 9:33 PM 

That is one of the things in the Graves model I cannot do, namely the full extension of the arms. NG would allow you to be more comfortable and in balance. Just keep the single axis setup and don't reach out so far.

 
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Swing Like Moe
(Login gsw)
SAGF Members 2006

IMA = What NG should be

June 3 2012, 12:48 AM 

I find myself going back to the IMA impact backwards drills whenever my golf swing goes bad. Going through the IMA drills from start to finish always fixes my golf swing. I do use a split grip where the right hand is at the bottom of a standard length grip with my left hand at the top of the grip but the right hand action is pure IMA. Sometimes my right hand gets a bit strong sort of like the HSS swing but the action stays the same as IMA teaches. In the IMA video Scott says that the action of right hand needs to be preformed without the left hand interfering and the best way for me to keep the left hand out of the swing is to split my hands on the grip and let the right control the swing. I think IMA is simply Natural Golf improved.


Stan

 
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Jerry
(Login thinkin2)

Re: IMA = What NG should be

June 3 2012, 10:05 AM 

I disagree with that. I bought the IMA videos and practiced the drills but never could get right with it and I really wanted to because I think that Scott is one of the best teachers I've ever watched on a video. Maybe I was doing things wrong but with IMA the shanks always jumped up and bit me. There was something with the grip that just didn't seem to fit with me but I know that wasn't what was causing the shanks. Frankly I don't know what it was, only that it was always there and I couldn't figure it out. Too bad because I really wanted it to work. But with NG I never experienced the shanks. Go figure. If anybody who uses IMA has any insight to this I'm all ears. The thing I liked about IMA was that the stance and everything else, with the exception of the grip, seemed to fit my like a glove.

 
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Jerry
(Login thinkin2)

To correct my post above...

June 3 2012, 11:24 AM 

I don't disagree with your post or what you do, only that I can't do it that way. Sorry, I know I used the wrong words to express my thoughts. Hope I didn't offend.

 
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Rotation

June 3 2012, 12:00 PM 

IMA is like a machine and if you take out a part, the machine might not work or work as well. One part is that the extension of your trail arm has to cause the rotation of your lead arm. If you maintain lead arm support (lead arm in contact with lead side pectoral). It is very easy, especially when you loose lead arm connection, for the extension of your trail arm to pushy your lead arm through impact without causing it to rotate. Note that you must not use the muscles of your lead arm to cause the rotation. The rotation must be caused by the extension of your trail arm.

Peter

 
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Jerry
(Login thinkin2)

Re: Rotation

June 3 2012, 7:48 PM 

Peter, do you think this is what may have caused my shanks? That maybe my lead arm didn't rotate to bring the clubface around and thus the hosel was leading the way? Never thought about that. I guess I've always thought that the lead side should lead so more thought was given to what the lead arm was doing than the trail arm. Maybe I'll pull the vids out and watch them again and think about what you said when I get to the range. Maybe the right arm has gotten a bad rap.

 
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Likely

June 3 2012, 9:08 PM 

This is s fairly common issue with IMA. You loose lead arm support and exaggerate the trail arm push and the club head goes through impact without rotating. For me this most often happened with driver and with short wedge shots. Because of it I invented a drill (2.5) ala the Impact Backwards drills just to practice trail arm extension causing rotation of the lead arm. I actually use this on occasion for short chips and pitches. Here is more detail from one of the first posts I made about this. If you like diagrams more than words there is a diagram of what I mean here.

Note that this rotation is what SHOULD happen if you return to impact position at impact which you should do in the Impact Backwards drills (and with respect to club rotation, for swings as well). Your body and your arms should return to the correct impact position that you set at address and that position had a square club face (for a straight shot).

Peter

 
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Ham
(Login hammeredit)
SAGF Members 2001

Drill 2.5

June 7 2012, 11:20 AM 

Hi Peter,

Do you make a backswing when doing your drill?

Also how long does the elbow stay on your side? Hard to tell in the gif.

Do you have the same info for your drill 4.5? I was looking for it the other day, but did not see it.

Thanks,

Ham

 
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2.5 & 4.5

June 7 2012, 6:34 PM 

With 2.5 as a drill there is no back swing; you start at '6/100s' with the club horizontal. When I use it for chipping there is enough of a back swing to get the club to horizontal or slightly higher. My trail elbow starts in front of my hip as described in IMA instruction and there is no attempt to keep it there as the trail arm extends.

I did not make a gif for 4.5 because the Hogan gif said it all. With 4.5 you start with your trail elbow touching your trail hip (slightly forward of the Hogan position if you're IMA) and you maintain that contact while you rotate hips and shoulders from an otherwise normal top of swing position. Ideally you should still have contact at impact and will loose it soon after. If you don't then it's likely you were extending your trail arm vs letting it extend.

More discussion about 4.5 can be found with THIS search.

Peter

 
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Ham
(Login hammeredit)
SAGF Members 2001

Thanks...

June 8 2012, 4:43 PM 

for the info. happy.gif

Ham

 
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Swing Like Moe
(Login gsw)
SAGF Members 2006

No Problem Jerry

June 4 2012, 1:06 PM 

No problem Jerry I did not think your post was offensive in any way. I had a shanking problem at one time in my golfing career but I don't remember if it was due to the IMA swing or not. My solution to the shanks was to simply get golf clubs that cannot be shanked. It really is not too hard to put together a set of shank less clubs. I have a complete set of hybrid clubs that cannot be shankedhttp://www.hirekogolf.com/hireko/orderportal/catalog_presentation/by_group/0/41/0/0/0/0/0

I also have a set of lofted fairway woods 3 through 15 that cannot be shanked and I play that set most of the time. I have a full set of the old Jerry Barber shankless irons but I only use the wedges and the nine and eight iron from that set as the lower numbered irons are hard to hit. You can also get a set of F2 shankless irons and wedgeshttp://www.f2golf.com/ or you could just get a clone version of the F2 wedgeshttp://www.golf-components.com/extreme5-wedge-heads.html


Anyway, I have not hit a shank in years and with the clubs I play a shank is simply not a possibility so I never even think about hitting any shanks.


Stan

 
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Don M (Snowman)
(Login Snowman9000)
SAGF Members 2006

Progress report

June 9 2012, 8:33 PM 

I'm a couple of weeks into swinging the way NG coached us to do. My ballstriking has improved by leaps and bounds. I have 90% beaten the body-leading hit impulse. I'm actually hitting greens again. If anything, distance has gone up a few yards per club, although it could be the heat. I wasted two years or more trying to create lower body power, lag, all that stuff. All I did was get worse. Yesterday I shot my best score of the year, on a tough course and a windy day. An 82 with several 3 putts. Lag putting is the next thing on the agenda, lol. Prior to this I was stuck on 86-87 all the time, even on easier courses and when I putted well. Just could not hit greens, not even with a wedge.

I'm sure that for a better athlete, intentionally driving the swing with your lower body is the path to greatness. But not for me.

 
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Jerry
(Login thinkin2)

Re: Progress report

June 10 2012, 10:21 AM 

Glad things are working out, Don. I have problems intentionally starting down with my lower body too. When I consciously do this I overdo it and the clubhead never catches up. I do believe that my lower body starts things but it does so automatically with no conscious thought and does it pretty well. It's only when I try to interfere with it or speed it up, etc., that things go really bad. I think our body parts know each other pretty well and most of the time will do what they need to do in the sequence they need to do it to support each other. At least it seems that way to me. I'm very careful about what I read from the greats because even though they are the best I don't think most of them actually do things the way they think they do or say they do.

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Greatness

June 10 2012, 1:38 PM 

Greatness in golf - Finding a way to swing that you are comfortable with and allows you to play to the highest level of enjoyment and reach your maximum potential for you aspire to. Sounds like you are close. Congrats

Regarding your quote,

I'm sure that for a better athlete, intentionally driving the swing with your lower body is the path to greatness. But not for me.


Two things, first intentionally doing anything in any style of golf swing or method is bad practice.

Second, learning how to swing like the pros is how the golf swing is normally taught, and anyone that wants to get better tries to mimic or emulate these great swings' key components, one of which is to have the lower body "start". Blueprint / Bertholy, Stack and tilt ( step on coke can ) Graves all subscribe to this and you can indeed learn to make these moves - but it TAKES A LOT OF WORK, discipline, patience and practice. Something most just aren't willing to do.

So in those cases, they should do what you did - find the best way to get the best results FOR YOUR GAME. You can also use simpler more universal approach that works every time for every golfer who gives it an honest shot.

Kevin
The Authentic Golfer
A Blueprint For Golf Excellence
The MGS Approach
The MGS Forum




Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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Larry
(Login xtratouch)
SAGF Members 2004

Have G2 Natural golf clubs

June 19 2012, 6:04 PM 

I bought a used set of G2 natural golf clubs in 1995 and used them quite a bit over the years. Last year I found a brand new set of never used graphite shafted G2's on eBay and bought them for $100 including 3 wedges and the beryllium copper 27* fairway wood. I just love the clubs.

I am a proponent of IMA and couldn't be happier. At 68 years old, Im hitting driver 260 yrds and scoring in the low 80s. IMA and Scotts method are the best thing that happened to my golfing. Now if I could just putt better Id be in the 70s.

 
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