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Paul Runyon Chipping - 4/5

July 5 2012 at 7:34 AM

McIrishman57  (Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

 
Easy peasy chipping method:



Kevin
The Authentic Golfer
A Blueprint For Golf Excellence
The MGS Approach
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Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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Don M (Snowman)
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Re: Paul Runyon Chipping - 4/5

July 5 2012, 2:46 PM 

What would you say are the pros and cons as compared to a conventional chipping style?


 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

For a true chip

July 6 2012, 6:52 AM 

where you want to land the ball on the green as soon as possible and let it roll to hole with minimum carry and maximum roll, I don't really see a downside. You set up square, grip the club way down to the steel, and toe the club a tad so you have a more vertical shaft lean like for a putt. Then you just use your normal putting stroke. if you use the same size stroke back and though, it just becomes a matter of selecting the right club. One session on the green is about all it would take to get your distances down.

Toeing the club helps with the contact and softens the shot some, you are using stroke mechanics that you are way comfortable with already. Perhaps a downside might be the grip. Because you are gripping all the way down to the steel, the shaft is smaller in your hand, and if you are not careful, it can move or change the club face orientation.

For the "chitches" - those shots that are part chip and part pitch where you need a little bit more ooomph to the shot the simple putting stroke action doesn't provide enough of that.

Kevin
The Authentic Golfer
A Blueprint For Golf Excellence
The MGS Approach
The MGS Forum



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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(Login Snowman9000)
SAGF Members 2006

Re: For a true chip

July 6 2012, 10:17 AM 

Thanks Kevin. I've tried the Runyan method. I agree with what you said on all points. I did find that on tight lies I wasn't precise enough; the toe could grab and cause problems. Given that plus the need for the chitch shot as you called it, I stuck with a conventional chip. I think if I would have practiced the Runyan method more I could have done fine with it. Given some more time, I would like to add it to my game.

I've also begun to simply putt anything on the fringe or nearby short fairway apron. I used to be scared of doing that but like anything it takes some practice. I'm gaining a lot of confidence there and 90% of the time it is a better outcome than a chip. And a poor effort is miles better than a poor chip. If the grass is a little too long for the putter, I'm using a hybrid. I find that if I choke WAY down on it, so my lower hand is completely on the shaft, it is about as long as a putter. That makes the stroke to be more like a putt as far as effort.

Before I switched to putting as much as possible, I was using the many clubs, one stroke method of chipping. Now the ones I have to chip or chitch seem to boil down to either my 54* or my 60*. I've become a lot better with those two clubs.

Bob Rotella has a somewhat provocative view on the short game. He ranks the priority of mastering the skills as 1) pitches, 2) sand shots, with chipping being a distant 3rd. This flies in the face of all the conventional wisdom I have always heard and believed. He says the same thing I found for my own game, that putting and hybrid-ing from off the green has greatly reduced the frequency of truly needing to chip. In my game, I have a lot more mini pitches than anything else, so I agree with him on those two counts. I often play rounds where no true chips are required.

Grudgingly I have to agree that sand shots are more important that chipping to my game. Now do you have any sand tips? This year I truly suck in the sand. Last night I hit a par five greenside bunker in two, and took an eight! On the final hole. sad.gif

 
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(Premier Login bob2aa)
SAGF Members 2002

Sand Shots

July 6 2012, 1:51 PM 

Hi Kevin: good chipping tips!

Hi Don: If your sand is like our municipal course sand (gray,river bottom sand) that gets compacted,try this:

[linked image]

1. The shot is mostly an arm-swing,with quiet feet.

2. The ball is forward in your stance and your weight favors your forward foot.

3. Here is the part illustrated (poorly happy.gif by my diagram: You will play from an open stance and your club face will be open about 30-40 degrees. You will SWING OUT/AWAY from your target line,then you will pull the club down and across.

4. Try to hit about 2 inches or so behind the ball.

5. For longer shots,use a pitching wedge instead of a sand wedge.

BONUS TIP:

Use the same cut-across technique out of a fairway bunker. The main difference is that you play the ball back in your stance,take one more club than normal and grip down about an inch. Look at the front part of the ball as you hit the ball. Of course,you don't hit behind the ball on a fairway bunker shot.



Cheers,Bob
KLEX - USA

Lexington.gif

 
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Don M (Snowman)
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Re: Sand Shots

July 6 2012, 5:41 PM 

Bob,

Thanks. My problem is mental. I can hit a line in the sand nicely, with proper action. When there is a ball, I hit 6 or more inches behind the ball, flip my hands, and either duff the ball into the bunker or blade it across. I have a real problem with the concept of hitting a spot behind the ball. I just can't ignore the ball and see the spot, so the conflict makes my brain go bananas.

I'm working on it. happy.gif

Thanks for the tip on the fairway bunker shot. It caused me to recall that last year, after trying the Mindy Blake swing, I found it to be excellent for fairway bunkers. What you are saying is very similar to that, but the Mindy Blake swing is down the target line. Man, I'm too young to be forgetting all these things. I probably have it written down somewhere. Oy.


 
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(Premier Login sagf_moderator)
Forum Owner

Method

July 6 2012, 6:33 PM 

If you're using a 'standard' bunker shot technique try thinking about hitting the sand hard with the back of the club head. That will engage the bounce and give you a wider lee way for hitting behind the ball.

Peter

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

I sorta agree with both of you

July 7 2012, 8:55 AM 

But here is the thing. Rotella forgets a couple of things. There is no denying that rolling a ball through the apron of the green will give you variations on both speed and line. It's just hard to judge through that area. Now on meticulously manicured greens at tour events, perhaps not. But on public courses and munis, once I'm about 6-8" back from the edge of the green I chip.

But if you become proficient at landing your ball on the green to a specific spot, and you can start that ball on it's proper line, you are going to get a much more consistent result - the green is smoother, and truer than the apron.

I will have to watch this weekend, but I don't think I will see many pros taking putter from the fringe - the exception being the British Open and some of the venues that are notorious for their shaved green side area.

Regarding sand play, Bobkys advice is good, and Moe has some great ideas - he played a shallower entry point. If the sand is packed and the lip is low, you can even take putter out of the sand. I know that the pro's preferred miss is a bunker vs the rough, because it is much easier to control the ball. I think sand play is difficult for most of us because we don't practice them enough. Muni's don't favor sand play - it is expensive to keep up, and it slows play down. In my area, three out of the four course I play have no bunkers at all.

Once you learn, it is an easy shot to hit.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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(Login gsw)
SAGF Members 2006

I HATE THE SAND!

July 7 2012, 10:48 AM 

I can get out of the sand (most of the time) but I still hate the sand. Of all the shots in golf the sand shot is the most awkward shot for me. Hitting a sand shot goes against everything that my mind thinks I should do to hit a golf ball well. I see a lot of very bad golfers play out of the sand very well. I think it is because they are always hitting the ball fat so the only time their golf swing actually works well is when they are in the sand. This season I have made a special effort to get better out of the sand and I am better but not nearly as good from sand as I am anywhere else around the green. I DVR all the televised golf every week and watch it very closely paying special attention to the pros out of the sand. I have reached the conclusion that they arent worth a darn out of the sand either. I have watched many tour pros loose a tournament this season by not getting up and down from the sand on the last few holes. One tournament that comes to mind is the one Ernie Els lost by not making birdie from the sand on a par five when he was in the sand in two shots. If the pros were as good out of the sand as they are said to be then why do I constantly see them react in anguish when they hit a greenside bunker that is very close to the pin and act happy when they hit the green 30 feet from the pin? It is because they can almost always two putt from 30 feet but only get up and down from a greenside bunker some of the time even if they are only 15 feet from the pin. Dont get me wrong, I can play golf well and I do not stink out of the sand by most golfers standards. I just cannot get good enough out of the sand that I can be happy when I hit a bunker. When I hit a bunker I almost always make a bogey and it is a celebration when I actually get up and down from the bunker just like it is for every other golfer I have played with or watched. I dont keep states on my sand save percentage but I would estimate that it is somewhere between 25% and 33% which I think is not very good because from the same distance anywhere else around the green my up and down percentage would be closer to 80%.


I still hate the sand
Stan

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Sand vs Rough

July 7 2012, 2:44 PM 

A ball siting in rough is much more difficult to deal with than a ball sitting in sand, with the exception of the "fried egg" lie. Like I said, I don't play sand shots that much, but once you learn to "spank the sand" it is an easy shot to hit.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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Don M (Snowman)
(Login Snowman9000)
SAGF Members 2006

Well, I lied about not needing the chip shot.

July 7 2012, 5:55 PM 

Today I had a few chips that were too far into the light rough to do anything else. I did not hit any of them to tap in range, and in fact I don't think I converted any of them. None were horrible but just not quite close enough.

I had a few putts from the fringe/apron, with so-so results. I did convert some. Probably still a little better than my chips, but I need work in both areas. The fact that it was a thousand degrees Fahrenheit did not help.

I did hit a very nice sand shot though, using the Moe method with a wide sole, high bounce lob wedge. And also a nice fairway bunker shot, using the Mindy Blake swing. Best f/w bunker shot I've hit this year.

 
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McIrishman57
(Login mcirishman57)
SAGF Members 2001

Know your game

July 8 2012, 1:23 PM 

And course. If you think through your rounds, you probably miss the green by the same amount on average - so work on grooving those pitches and chips that you have the most.

My standard pitch is about 20 paces. I just take my 64 degree wedge back til it is horizontal with a fold of the elbow....back down and through till my hands are shoulder high. Easy peasy to under 3 feet now.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

 
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