Looks to me that his hip turn stops when his hips rise and legs snap straight and then resume the turn when his upper body turn forces it through the finish. Looks more dramatic when he goes for more speed.
I think that McIlroy is a "glider". When he's on he can't be beaten. I think that if he tries to harness his swing in an attempt to hit the ball like Ben Hogan he will lose his game. He's more like Sam Snead than Ben Hogan.
Since Rory's swing looks quite a bit different from Hogan's, I don't expect Rory to harness anything anytime soon. I don't see why he would even need to change anything.
Where you mention that Hogan harnessed his swing, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I've read that he was challenged by a hook that would creep into his game and, as a result, seemed to develop a reliable cut shot that sailed about the same distance as his straight/draw shot but beyond that I'm clueless.
Out on Tour there seems to be a consensus that it's best to be "consistent" week in and week out. I guess the theory is that if you are in the hunt more often you will finish high more often and even win more often, and thus make more money and be in greater demand by sponsors. I think there is a degree of validity to this line of thinking. But I also think that in practice it can rob a golfer of his brilliance by taking away his ability to sometimes go wild and rip a course to shreds. Until Tiger Woods came along, the whole Tour had consigned itself to consistent mediocrity. The players thought that they were all so good that they had achieved parity. Then Woods changed the game by unleashing a type of unmitigated brilliance with which the Tour was not familiar. As the years went on, even Woods succumbed to the allure of consistency so that now he too has a hard time running the table on his colleagues. Enter McIlroy the Unbounded. He can miss three cuts in a row and then blow the field away by 8 strokes in a gliding frenzy. Shades of Lanny Wadkins and Seve in their primes, only much better, but probably not as good as young Tiger Woods. Mickelson was like Rory before he started taking lessons from Harmon, whom I don't think can teach someone like Mickelson anything.
I think Hogan needed to mechanize his movements in order to compete with the likes of Nelson, Snead and Demeret, all of whom were, by his own admission, better swingers of the club than he was.
will get back issues with such movement, spine isnt designed to handle that pressure in the long run.
He has had some already, and unless he re-tool the swing he will end up as Fred who cant walk some days.
with the leading biomechanical experts to perfect his motion. As long as he is not lazy and continues his fitness program he should be as fine as one can be who practices and plays daily. Fred was lazy and therefore has problems.
Re-tooling an almost perfect biomechanical swing seems a bit foolish to me, but I am curious as to what you would recommend as a change for him.
Once mothers was offered this new drug to help with pregnancy, it later became the scandal with deformed kids born.
The issue with the drug was it did affect things at body temperature.
I spent the last 3 years to become an expert of the golf swing mechanics, since the golf field is a mess with theory and textbook I decided to dig it out and model the man who hit it the longest and straight, Mike Austin.
Even there there is a lot of stuff going on, perceptions, various interpretations of what Mike did do and teach.
I took a pro golfer, applied the learning and teaching I done and his back issues he had for 4 years went away, he shifted his swing in 3 weeks and fully new in 3 months. I did there what none I seen in the golf field has been able to do.
Now, he dont have a pure Austin based swing as he has a hybrid version still its just amazing.
Now, Rory is a superb golfer but he nor the biomechnical experts knows what they are doing.
I would get Rory to hit the ball longer with less effort in 3 weeks or less.
He would also be more straight and lessen the back issues to a level where he never needs to worry about those again.
I spent 3 years to cut trough why people have such a hard time playing a game like golf when basically the same individual wouldnt have with either baseball, basket or dart. Single axis is a nice swing theory, you will be in play and have a golf game that works no doubt.
Now, I was a 180-240y driver with practically a homegrown single axis swing mechanics 3 years ago.
With more flaws than you can count, this year even with my health being as bad its been I was 260-290y.
In the last 9 hole local competition 6 october, with a fairway as wide as a country, and 7celsusis rain and wet conditions I won the long driving on fairway on the 9 hole that with a lot of people at half my age in the competition.( I am 48 years old)
If the spine and pelvis moves the way Rory does it he will continue to experience back issues.
The spine is made to move a few degrees and its also not designed to move down and twist with the forces Rory uses, and Rory does that and in spite of his TPI, Biostuff he will end his careeer early.
I told the golf forum here that swedish golfers is heading into the wrong direction due to back issues, I saw 150 players in spain and most of them had some kind of injury at age 18-30. 3 of them did have back surgery at age 30!
Anyhow, the golfer I coach will come and see me on sunday, to bad season is basically over here, minus 7 celsius on the night is not good, hopefully some play can be made but we do some range work.
If you want to see his swing I can post some later if you like.
Biomechanical experts in all and I am sure they know they field.
I dont teach what Mike Austin said or felt or demonstrated or taught.
I dont teach what his students state either.
If the pelvis moves the way it does for Rory, its not biomechanically correct.
I can prove it to him when he comes and see me.
What I teach is a body motion swing.
this is a video of a +handicap player, day one is iron and spoon swing the first two swings - the second day is 2 swings with spoon last two he did for the day, total time spent on range around 4 hours over a period of 2 days below zero just late season here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O5hoai-byg
Can you spot the difference?
He added likely 10-15mph while having a much better motion with his pelvis and transition.
I wouldnt say he is done yet, but tis an example what I would do with Rory.
Adding a proper body motion swing without the need to compensate the upper body and timing that with the lower body going in two different directions. The case with a modern swing aka Rory or even a classic swing aka Nicklaus.
The Pro that I posted the video took 4 hours of work to get him there.
He is able to say back and tilt and let the force of the body to add speed to his downswing without loosing balance or sacrifacing accuracy as he will not need to turn actively as he did in the first two swings.
His pelvis is now moving the way it should be to make sure he is able to swing all out if he needs to without causing injury.
He still needs to adjust his inside out angle and let the joints do their job better but harsh conditions and the time we had at our disposal I am happy with his improvements. He was ruined in his younger years at his club he started to do the modern swing instead of his own swing which by far was way better than what they tried to teach him.
The second swing shows amazing improvement, in my opinion. The player made a remarkable adjustment.
I think he might now be prone to hooks, but he ought to be able to deal with this by adding a bit more lateral move with his lower body as he rotates.
hooking is due to rotation of the right side to make the timing into impact aka modern/classic swings.
when the player adds a little to much and cant balance the forces they turn over to early.
He wont have that as a problem as once he is getting there he will rather do his preference which is loosing it slightly to the right. that is also going away as he can trust the mechanics he now is doing. One force going down and out.
and he can hit it as much he want and not risking a hook.
"I'm still not sure if your "whole body motion" swing focuses on a certain movement of the pelvis or of the postion of the upper body or both. "
None of them.
its not internally focused at all.
Cant play golf that way as its become too complicated.
The body is made to move using angles of the joints some support the action and some of them are more mobile.
What has happen is a technique driven golf industry, for me it dont matter if its single axis or any other since you can play golf with any system.
There are things that should happen in the swing, one is a stable swingcenter (C7) a common nominator in Mike Austins system. The second as I named it is "riding the angle". once those two are kept as reference, your able to find your own motion and one such is the proper use of the spine and pelvis and one such is the right heel and foot.
Video here from bradley shows thathttp://youtu.be/qrhDByp-v0E
so its more about finding your own motion and once you find it your also able to replicate it.
Due to keeping the reference the same.
This is Hans from 19nov hitting a iron. He found his own motion, more inward angle of attack, proper heel motion, and even if he aint where I like him to be he still have a much better action now. this weekend a one day competition is coming for him.
Rory has a perfect body motion, and kinetic sequencing. The person in your video does not.
The person in your video has a poor impact position for a pro. His hands are not ahead of the ball at impact. He is probably an in to out flipper. I would guess he hits high draws with some hooks as well. His clubhead speed also did not change when comparing the frame by frame analysis. Not sure how you measured, but the evidence on the videos is clear.
Also, do you think staying back and tilting will be good for his body, especially when considering that his kinetic sequence is somewhat off?
had back problems throughout his career starting very early. He also had his hips replaced later.
Mike Austin never did anything of merit on the PGA tour. His swing however looks very similar to Rory McIlroy's. Especially when comparing body positions at impact.
The mistake you make is taking what a golfer such as Austin says he felt in the swing, and then teaching it to others. He says to throw the club from the top, but all evidence of his golf swing is to the contrary as his hands were always ahead of the clubhead at impact. Do as they do, not as they say.
This is why there are scientific studies to determine exactly what it is that the top players actually do in the golf swing. There is no mystery any longer as to what it is that the top players do. While many of their swings look different the kinetic sequence of their golf swings is virtually identical, and golfers who are not as good do not match that sequence regardless of what they think they are doing.
I have met many self proclaimed golf experts over the past 40+ years, but the fact is that in almost every case they were seriously lacking basic understanding of how to help a person actually improve to pro quality ball striking. With out understanding the science behind what makes the top players in the game's golf swings tick, you will have little to no chance of helping a student become a world class ball striker.
If you are teaching people to "throw the clubhead from the top" and they actually do it then it is unlikely that you will help them to achieve a great impact of the golf ball. Could be a case (1 person out of 100) who actually had an extreme hands ahead position at impact who could be helped for a while with that advice, but for most it has simply not much to do with creating a good impact.
You may find that winning the longest drive is really impressive, but I would rather play 4 under par for the nine hole tournament and win by a couple shots, then win the longest drive.
You may feel that Rory's biomechanical expert Dr. Rob Neal does not know what he is doing, but Rory believes and his statistics show that working together brought Rory from playing Amateur golf in 2008 to being world number 1 in 2012. Just because you feel that Dr. Neal does not know what he is doing does not make it a fact. Followiing are Dr. Neal's credentials, maybe you can post yours here so that we can compare them, as well as links to your scientific papers.
Director of the company Golf BioDynamics, Rob developed a strategic alliance with Jim McLean in 2003. His company now provides expert biomechanical services to all of the Jim McLean Golf Schools. Rob is based at The Jim McLean Golf School, Miami Florida during the winter - providing the 3D Swing Analysis technology alongside the expert golf instruction.
Completed PhD in Biomechanics (University of Queensland AUSTRALIA)
Academic (research and teaching) at University of Queensland for 15 years
World first 3D golf swing analysis research paper (1982)
Published over 15 international journal articles on golf mechanics
Over 150 presentations in golf and biomechanics conferences and forums
Authored the Golf Biomechanics Manual for UK PGA Assistants Training Program
Director Golf BioDynamics (est. 1999 - business providing expert 3D biomechanical analysis to golfers) Golf BioDynamics
Co-Director of The Golf Athlete network of health professionals and contributor to TGA's recently produced Better Body Better Golf (Double CD) The Golf Athlete
Consultant to: Australian Institute of Sport Golf Program (Melbourne, AUSTRALIA); Victorian Institute of Sport Golf Program (Melbourne, AUSTRALIA); Queensland Academy of Sport Golf Squad (Brisbane, AUSTRALIA); Women's Golf Australia; Numerous international touring players (US PGA, LPGA, European, Japanese and Australian tours; including work at Jim McLean Golf School with Len Mattiace, James McLean, Erik Compton,); Jim McLean Golf Schools Doral and Weston Hills Country Club (since Dec 2003); Florida International University Women's Golf Team
Winner of Australian Sports Industry Award 2002 for Business Innovation in developing the GBD 3D Golf Swing Analysis System
The GBD 3D Biomechanical Golf Swing Analysis provides an additional analysis tool for golf instructors to take their teaching to a higher level: