Welcome to the BroadArrow Unplugged. This takes the place of the Tactical Systems Forum. That forum wasn't getting a lot of use so we've decided to try out a new format. If everyone likes it, we can make this a permanent forum. This is where MWRines can talk about almost anything off-topic, not appropriate for the Main Forum. Here, you are free to talk about anything, however, I would prefer we don't talk politics. Once again, there is a zero tolerance policy for rudeness and personal attacks. Other than that, have fun!
At what point is a knife too expensive to be a "tool?"
This is an old discussion with watches. Most of us might prefer to wear a classic mechanical instrument watch when doing hazardous things, but their high cost has us using inexpensive Casios, Citizens, and Seikos. I personally find that there are similar limits for "using" knives.
While there are many hghly crafted knives tool knives like Chris Reeve's Sebenza (above), and the amazing ti-bladed diver's knives from Mission (below), I find that their $300+ or $400+ prices to be a bit rarefied for something that is so easy to lose or damage when out and about.
Still, there are some people who buy them and use them for their intended purpose. I can't get myself to hazard a knife costing more than $100 to $150. Where do you draw the line?
Posted on Sep 28, 2000, 6:42 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
Hi Carlos...This may sound a bit strange but, as with watches, selecting a knife that you carry with you is very personal. The actual amount you pay isn't always the limiting factor. Something that becomes part of your daily "kit" warrants more than a glance at the price tag. However, at some point you have to ask yourself just how bad you'd feel if you trashed, or lost it; and could you afford to replace it if needed. My coworker recently chided me about spending $160 on a Benchmade knife instead of paying $35 for a Buck knife like his. (Talk about a disposable knife.) However, unless I really, really needed something that matched a Sub in price...I'd probably just say no.
Posted on Sep 28, 2000, 9:31 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
I suppose that a $50 Spyderco Endura would do most if not all that I need a pocket knife to do, but it didn't have many of the features that I wanted, and I suppose that it is those features that set the minimum price for me:
ATS-34 or better steel, liner lock, G10 handle; all together will set a price of around $100 to $150 for decent workmanship (Spyderco, BM). I decided that those features were the minimum that I would accept and had to pay the price to get it.
How do you set your minimum? Bob's use of truly disposable supplemental knives certainly makes sense within some contexts.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 2:59 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
I have had this dillema for years. I own the aformentioned Mission MPK along with a Randall Mod 14 among others. Both stay in their intended places . . in the house. When I am out beating the sticks it is usually a Buck 119 of KaBar in one incarnation or another at my side. I have run the gammet on "usin knives" and usually end up taking the beater that I am not afraid to abuse or loose. I can buy and break alot of kabars compared to loosing a good quality Sabenza. The "good knives" tend to stay that way until they are traded off or sold.
My Randall would be the one I would keep over all others though. It is like that old Submariner, never goes out of style.
Posted on Sep 28, 2000, 9:50 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
When I got my Sebenza, the first thing I did with it is use it. If it gets damaged, I'll get it repaired. If I lose it, I'll get another one. I'm also equally happy carrying a Spyderco Delica.
These knives that you refer to are on the expensive side, their price has nothing to do with rare or exotic materials. As you say they are "tool knives" you should use them and enjoy using them.
Where do I draw the line? If it is difficult to replace, I would be more careful. To use a watch analogy- I would wear a Rolex Submariner as a daily watch, but not a vintage IWC Mk. XI. They may have roughly equal value- monetary wise, but one is harder to replace.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 12:44 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
If you have to think twice about leaving it behind in a pinch, it's too expensive. If you value it more than your arm or your life it's too expensive.
In a firefight, you drop your gun magazines in place, making absolutely no effort to pick them up. The only person who picks up his magazines in a firefight is a dead person.
On a dive operation, if you drop your dive knife into the depths, you go on. If you decide to make that 150 to 200 foot dive to recover your knife, it's too expensive.
If you flinch about leaving behind a tool under any exigent circumstances, that tool is too expensive.
One way I get around this and still enjoy a decent knife (my Edge Design Genesis) is by buying disposable knives by the crate. I have about 50 of them in my locker. At any time I carry about two to three of them on my person. If I ever need a knife to pry a door or cut wire, I use a disposable knife. I'd love to live and die by hard and fast high speed rules of engagement, but my wallet won't let me. By substiting a disposable knife where practical, I still keep my sanity and a relatively nice knife to boot.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 1:05 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
For years I have suffered with lesser quality boots. Though they seemed adequate for my needs I always desired that "ultimate boot". I found a local tactical retailer that carries an extensive Danner line. After plopping down the cash, I walked out with the ultimate boot (for me anyway). I know there is an existing thread already on the subject but curious as to Bob, Carlos or others opinions on your favorite "work boot".
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 8:29 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
For support, Danners are the best all around work boot. They are heavier than say a pair of GSG-9 Adidas boots. However, one pair of Danners will easily outlast about ten pairs of Adidas. My Danners have been with me through thick and thin for about six years now. Prior to that, I wore Rockey's which wore out in a year.
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 8:47 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
I have the Danner Acadia Gore-Tex insulated model (more)
The Danner Acadias are my favorite work boot. I am still looking for a good price on the Adidas GSG-9 boots. I'd like to get a pair for training and tactical situations. Adidas GSG-9s are extremely lightweight boots that resemble black wrestler's boots more than uniform boots. They offer very little ankle support, but make up for it in comfort, agility, and light weight. If you ever wanted to wear a pair of running shoes at work, this would be it. The Danner Acadias are full blown rock and roll boots that will work equally as well on the battlefield as in the urban jungle. They offer tons of support, but you pay for it in weight. I know I've been wearing them after about 12 hours. Nothing feels better than taking them off and slipping into a pair of tennis shoes.
There is always a price to pay. Ideally you could own a pair of each.
Posted on Sep 27, 2000, 12:42 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
...getting a pair of Filson's Uplander or insulated Higlander boots. I generally only wear boots in winter or if I'm heading out to the wilderness. It should be snowing here in a couple of months so I'll have to pick up a pair soon.
Sorels are available at almost any cold weather depot (more)
They aren't cheap.. I think $80 to $120 is what they are going for, but they are extremely comfortable. The sizes run a little big. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably buy one size smaller. I think they are made so you can wear thick socks. Well, the biggest problem I have is that my feet get really too hot in Sorels, so I don't need those thick socks. Other than that, it's always great when you have boots that keep your feet absolutely dry even in the worst of conditions. Nothing worse than soggy feet.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 11:36 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
$120 is a small price to pay for warm feet. It doesn't matter how good your parka is if your feet are cold and wet. I'll keep in mind the over-sizing. I'm accustom to removing my shoes when I go indoors and putting on something more serviceble that don't require thick soxs. I'll have to hunt around for a dealer up here.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 1:16 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
WOW! I haven't seen anything like this in the UK (more)
and we have some pretty cold weather over here too! Is anyone selling these online at a reasonable price? My wife is always complaining of cold feet in winter and I have to suffer these in bed! She seems to think I am just a hot water bottle. I can remember the days when she used to think...............(censored).
Posted on Oct 3, 2000, 1:11 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Anyone care to enlighten me about the differences in the types of blade locking mechanisms in the Benchmade folding knives? Such as merits or known problems in use. I just picked up a Benchmade catalog and discovered just how many different folding knives they produce. The Axis lock seems like a good idea, but how well does it work? Is it something you have to get used to?
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 8:26 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
That was just the type of thing I was looking for. As predicted in the article, Elishewitz and Pardue both have a design that incorporates the Axis lock. McHenry & Williams also came out with a smaller version of the original 710 (the 705) that only weighs 2.7 oz. I've been trying to decide between the 705 and the Eilshewitz 885. For me, size is an issue, with small being better. If the Axis lock is really as good as the review says, I may have to go with the 705.
If anyone else has a comment on this, I'd love to hear it.
Posted on Sep 28, 2000, 9:10 AM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Don't want to go through the history of knife locking mechanisms, but the Axis is the newer of the locking mechanisms you've mentioned. A few years back, the linerlock was favored by many custom knife makers, knife manufacturers and end users- us. People started to complain that linerlocks sometimes failed- you may have heard of the "spine whack test". The reliability of the lock came into question.
There are several locks that are considered very reliable- Chris Reeve's Integral Lock- used on the Sebenza series, Rekat Rolling Lock, Benchmade Axis and the Spyderco Compression Lock (this one is very new, so there are not many reviews as yet).
A small note, I have several linerlocks and have no problems.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 1:10 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
I've never owned a knife with a liner lock, and only used one once. The thought of having to stick a finger (or thumb) in the blade path doesn't seem like a good idea. How difficult are they to use with gloves? They must have a lot of positive aspects since so many of the knives recommended on this site use them. But I suppose like any "tool" they get easier to use with practice.
Posted on Sep 29, 2000, 8:53 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
So I can't really give you an answer. The Spyderco Military is designed to be opened with gloves on- Nomex thickness, not sure if you can close the knife with gloves on. Like you said, it may "easier to use with practice".
Posted on Sep 30, 2000, 7:07 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
There must be a better place than the House of Knives! Still, most of the big names were there. And there ARE other high clipped options, like the Columbia River 'Shark.' I was surprised at the low prices. This one, for instance, was $40 US. It has a 3 1/2" blade, a dark grey metal (?)handle, and looked and felt very nice indeed. Like the Edi, a little heavy though. The Spiderco's were all under $70 US, if I recall. Awaiting news from the Cops as to the actual BC law. Heresay is that no knife which can be opened with one hand can legally be concealed. Which would bring me all the way back to my trusty 1 1/2 oz. Opinel. Hope not. Keep you posted.
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 11:31 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
In California, switchblades and gravity knives are illegal. In theory, any knife that can be opened with one hand by way of gravity is also illegal here. In practice, that is all but impossible to enforce because even a Buck Knife can be opened with just one hand with enough practice.
In California, the concerns center mostly around actual "switchblades." Folders that could be opened with one hand given a certain amount of practice and dexterity have weary acceptance.
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 11:37 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I have found the Canadian statute on prohibited knives. Like Bob says, it focuses on switchblades and gravity knives, but not the manually thumb-opened knives that are legal everywhere. Here is a link to the full text of the statute:
With all due respect, police are often not the best source of information on legal matters -- they aren't lawyers. It is useful to find out what kind of knives they frown on and that you may get hassled over even if they are technically legal. Here is a site that maintains all BC regional laws on the internet so that you can search for yourself:
I have decided that the chance of a swat team arriving at the very moment of my opening a cd cellophane in my living room is remote enough that I'm going to forget the law and buy the knife that I like most. The chances of my being in a legally questioinable situation with a knife like a street fight is close to zero. So... I'll let you know. There are a lot of things I like about the Edi, one being that Bob chooses to wear it over the other 2000 available knives in the world. Must count for sumpn. Thank you, Carlos and Bob, for your feedback and generosity of time on this one.
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 4:29 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
It is the Police Officer on the street that is going to arrest you, not the lawyer. Furthermore, my experience shows that most police officers know more about the nuances of the law than most lawyers. Lawyers only defend when the opportunity arises. For every knife wielding defendant a lawyer defends, a police officer arrests a hundred suspects.
Trust me when I say that a working Police Officer better know the law, he's the one who's depriving you of your freedom, and he's the one who is on the line for making a false arrest if he is wrong about the law.
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 8:43 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
The street officer knows the law inside and out. He or she has to prepare the reports and make sure the cause for the search (discovery of the item) is within current interpretations by the courts and will lead to a successful filing of the criminal case. Ask any attorney that knows about criminal matters and they will say the same thing (off the record. because all of their clients are innocent and victims of bad searches).
Don't ever...EVER tell or quote the law to an officer while he is investigation you. Hopefully the officer will make the correct decision with the case based on the merits alone. Quoting the law to an officer is telling him that he is a dope and you are the expert at what he does for a living. You are an expert in your job and some nitwit tells you how to do your job and does not have a clue what you do for a living or how to do your job. How would you react? Could it turn the matter into a personal one? The officer's plan of a simple warning might lead to jail, the courts and large expenses. Chances are the officer will be carrying the same knife that you are and will not take action unless you tell him you are the expert and he is a dope.
Posted on Oct 1, 2000, 5:14 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
thats the same design as the pelican light and the hubble light. I have one of thehubble lights it is EXCELLENT. same design, submerssible to 1000 ft i believe.. even has a helieum vent. Excellent candle power. the hubble is in a BRIGHT yelllow case. i think Hubble is an eltrician supply company.
Posted on Sep 28, 2000, 10:36 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
You didn't state your application. There are so many lights out there.
For general purpose--- rugged, bright, and long burn times, I would recommend a dive light from Pelican or Underwater Kinetics. Law Enforcement lights tend to be brighter and just as rugged but are not submersible and have shorter burn times.
I am not a proponent of rechargeable lighting systems. I have several of them from Streamlight and Surefire, and I do not like them. The batteries tend to go bad fairly often and they self-discharge, causing the lights to go out at the most inopportune times.
If you can afford it, the absolute best and brightest lights (though short burn times) are the Surefire lights that run on lithium batteries. The self-dischrage rate on these are negligible. The batteries alone will last over a decade.
Dive lights are also bright, but not as bright. They are intended for longer burn times. They will frequently last 5 to 6 hours when left constantly on. They are also submersible. I like Underwater Kinetics and Pelican. My favorite dive light overall is the UKE light 4C. It's rugged, bright, and compact. It also looks very cool. The SuperSaberlite is also a very good light for the price.
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 10:21 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
...mostly for emergency use. The other day we had a long power outage, and there was something I needed to work on and candlelight was insufficient. I ended up draining two flashlights in a couple of hours and after that I was basically screwed.
I want waterproof and shockproof simply for the "better safe than sorry" fudge factor. Dive lights sound like the way to go. Any additional thoughts?
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 3:19 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I have had good success with the Sabrelite . . . .
I bought my first Sabrelight from Brigade Quartermasters years ago. It has been banged around quite a bit but continues to work flawlessly. It isn't the prettiest. Its Olive drab with blackened hardware.
My latest aquisition is the Stealthlite 2400C. What I like about it is the one-handed switch. The Sabrelite requires two hands to turn on, while the Stealthlite only requires a good flick of the thumb. Hope I didn't butt in on the conversation. I just enjoy the finer quality outdoor products that everyone has been posting on!!
Posted on Sep 26, 2000, 8:21 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
LEDs are great as task lights. I use one every day in conjunction with my Millenium M3 and my Surefire 6P.
The tactical illuminator serves as my primary administrative light; reading and writing in low light conditions. The Surefire 6P is my intermediate light that I use for lighting up larger areas but not in a tactical manner. Finally I use a Surefire Millenium M3 when I need to go tactical, such as dynamic crisis entry mode.
Posted on Sep 27, 2000, 12:30 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
You can submerge it to about 3 meters probably... (more)
I have been told that the illuminator will operate to shallow depths. They are working on a more water resistant version, but to what avail? Beyond about 15 feet, you need real light. The little task light is nowhere near bright enough to be of any use at any depth. But of course, if you're doing drug interdictions, it would be nice if the task light worked once you boarded your target. But that's what dry bags are for; electronics and other non-water resistant necessities.
On a related topic, Surefire told me to go ahead and try my Millenium M3 down to about 75 feet. Now an M3 is certainly bright enough to be of use, but burn time costs run about $1 a minute. The light itself costs close to $200 and it runs on three DL-123 lithium batteries which run from $3 to $6 each. So I ask myself, why oh why would I use an M3 when my Underwater Kinetics runs just fine at depth?
Posted on Sep 27, 2000, 1:13 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
Images of the NASA-issue version of the Emerson Specwar...
Here (finally) are images of the knife NASA contracted from Emerson for astronaut use. The notch in the tip of the blade is for opening food kits or cutting gear, cloth, &c.
BTW, I was mistaken in saying that the Emerson Search and Rescue knife (SARK) is only available to military and police. It will eventually be part of the regular lineup. The NASA knife isn't currently sold to the public.
Posted on Sep 23, 2000, 11:57 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
Question for Bob (or somebody else able to answer)......
I understand EDI Genesis II is Bob's favourite daily wearer. Is it only because of its exceptionally long deep pocket clip, or is it also better than Benchmade Ellishewitz Sentinel in some other aspects?
Posted on Sep 23, 2000, 10:21 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Aside from the deep pocket carry clip, I think that the handle is both thicker and wider which makes it more comfortable and secure in use. I have always been a proponent of adequate handles on knives. Here is a quote from Bob:
"I wore my serrated EDI Genesis all week. I have grown very fond of it. In terms of tactical use, it's actually better suited than the Benchmade/Elishewitz 875 I recently purchased. Though thinner, the Benchmade doesn't balance as well, and I suspect would be harder to hold if it was being used for defensive purposes."
I also think that the high flat-ground blade geometry of the Genesis is more efficient for cutting/slicing than the dirk-like blade of the BM 875 -- which would be more effective for thrusting.
I recently made a similar switch from Gerber's "Covert" folder to the Spyderco Wegner.
Posted on Sep 23, 2000, 1:02 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I find true your remarks about bigger knives being more versatile than the smaller ones (from some previous posts). I've chosen EDI 130 mostly because of the clip, it's reassuring to know it might be superior to many other knives also because of other elements of design and execution.
Posted on Sep 23, 2000, 1:15 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
The EDI Genesis being all black has a decidedly more tactical look to it. The Sentinel though beautiful, looks almost "elegant."
I carry both knives off and on, but I must admit that the EDI gets worn about three to one in favor of the Genesis over the Sentinel. I tend to wear the Sentinel more for casual occasions. Add to that, I seldom if ever carry the plain edge Genesis in favor of the serrated one.
Posted on Sep 23, 2000, 5:30 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Has anyone had any experience with these? I'm considering buying one from an online retailer (=I can't try it on) and have been advised that they run *small.* This is counter intuitive to me because I have read that they are "cut oversized" to allow for multi-layering of clothing underneath.
Any other comments on these (particularly the ones made by Alpha) regarding quality/fit would be much appreciated.
Have a great weekend!
Posted on Sep 22, 2000, 3:40 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
They are ok, small side is a bit of an understatement (more)
they are well made but the British ones are better, they are unlined though because they are intended for wear over warm clothing, or just as a waterproof layer, rather than as warm clothing. Also the British ones are significantly cheaper, unless you are wearing one as auniform item you might find British DPM is rather more effective than US Woodland. In the US forces you have better weapons,night vision equipment and radios, in the UK we have far better uniforms and load carrying equipment. If you have any difficulty in getting UK kit drop me a line.Regards James K
Posted on Sep 24, 2000, 11:04 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
Actually, it's the other way around. I wear mostly Large sized
jackets but for ECWCS parka, I had to wear Medium. It was bigger than
its actual size, so you should rather step down in size.
BTW, if you hate camouflage patterns, try the G-8 Parka from Alpha
Industries. Same spec as ECWCS parka using Gore-Tex, but they're
available in assorted colors. I especially like the Olive Green
version but the price is outrageously expensive.
Posted on Oct 1, 2000, 7:41 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
As much as I like modern high-tech weaponry, there is nothing quite like the classic rifles and shotguns of England -- particulary double guns. The great old names of English firearms are akin to the Great Three of Swiss watchmaking -- they evoke that timeless sense of peerless craftsmanship and quality: James Purdey, Holland & Holland, John Rigby, Westley Richards...
Any thoughts on this, or am I the only WIS that is subject to this particular form of romanticism?
Posted on Sep 20, 2000, 5:01 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I would love to have an H&H double rifle, but they are a little out of my price range. I was thinking a few years back when the UK once again tightened up their firearms laws if any of these were rescued, or were they chopped up like cheap guns. I hope they allowed some exports to the US.
I do have some Webley revolvers, military issue. They are not fine quality in looks but in function the design was in many ways better than American revolvers of the same period and for that I admire them.
Posted on Nov 2, 2000, 11:45 AM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Behold a protoype of the EDI Paratus. It is essentially a fixed blade version of the Genesis II, with a slightly longer 4.5" blade of A2 tool steel. Handle is GV-6H. It was scheduled to be released as a production knife back in August of 1999 , but appears to have been shelved when Will Fennell, then-president of EDI, departed.
Posted on Sep 19, 2000, 7:23 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
I've made various posts that have included guns and knives and he's never objected. I even included a scan of a tobacco pipe in a article/post on "gentleman's watches" and he applauded the post and made no mention of the offending tobacco. When I rewrite it I'll be sure to add a classic English double gun.
Maybe we need a better instigator.
Posted on Sep 20, 2000, 4:18 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
The blade steel is actually VG-10, not ATS-34. VG-10 is an excellent steel that like ATS-34 was created specifically for cutlery -- in this case for surgeons knives.
The blade is 3.6" and the overall length is 8.5" when opened. The G10 handle has double stainless steel liners, contributing to the knife's 6oz weight; "built like a tank." If I'd known more about it, I would have considered it as an alternative to the Spyderco Wenger.
Posted on Sep 19, 2000, 10:17 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
Particularly like the Spiderco Native and the Sere 2000, and the latter's high clip makes it very desirable despite the weight. Time to check these out in person if I can find them. Thanks to you all. I'll post my 'hands on' report after the weekend.
Posted on Sep 19, 2000, 2:17 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Just not enough hours in the day, what with MWR and wife and kids. So here's my question, and I hope it doesn't overlap with others already:
I have carried an Opinel, (about a 3 1/4" blade) in my pock for many years. I don't even like the cheap chrome part, or the shape of the wood, but it is sharp enough, (carbon steel), very cheap, ($6 Cdn.), thin, (I don't notice I have it), disposable (although I never have had to replace it, I don't care if I have to), very pocket friendly, (with the rounded wood), non scratchable (by keys and change) and best of all very light (about an ounce on my inaccurate kitchen scale). I would love something with more quality and awe. Cost and disposability are not an issue, but the rest are. Especially the lightness. It MUST be as light or lighter than the Opninel. What would you folk recommend? Is there actually anything better? Hope so.
Posted on Sep 17, 2000, 2:21 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I don't really think its possible to make a folder with a 3" blade weigh less than an ounce. Spyderco is really the master of lightweight knives and their 3 inchers weigh about 2oz. The only way to get down to 1oz is with very small knives with <2" blades. Of course it is quite possible that your kitchen scale is deceiving you.
Have you ever worn a clip-it type knife? A knife that is clipped to your pocket has less apparent weight that one sitting at the bottom of your pocket. My daily carry knife weighs 5oz but is quite comfortable.
You will find that most of the high-tech cutting-edge (no pun intended) folders weigh in at 3oz to 4oz, when using G10, aluminum, or titanium handles. The lightest knives use FRN (fiberglass reinforced nylon) handles.
If you are willing to look at 2oz folders w/3" blades I would recommend these FRN-handled knives from Spyderco:
Spyderco Calypso Jr. Lightweight
...and the ever-popular Spyderco Delica
Ultimately the best advice I could give is to go to a specialist cutlery shop, handle any knives that look interesting, and then try them in your pocket for carry comfort. Such things are very individual.
Posted on Sep 17, 2000, 7:56 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
for your very thoughtful response. I think the reason the Opinel could actually BE an ounce is because the blade is extremely thin both in thickness and width, and the handle is almost a weightless light wood. I'll go to the scale at the post office tomorrow and find out exactly how much it does weigh. However, I am listening to your 'clip' idea and also LOVE the Spiderco you scanned. Time to visit the "House of Knives" at the mall. I can't imagine that the Spiderco could be less than twice the weight though, just looking at it. I'm not convinced about clipping. Where I hang out it would seem awfully nerdy having a visibly clipped knife, (I'm an architect not LAPD, where it becomes cool), unless it hangs inside the pocket and looks like, say, a pen clip. I knew it wouldn't be the only posting. Don't get me hooked!
Posted on Sep 17, 2000, 10:08 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Precisely, the knife is in the pocket and only the clip is exposed....
For the most part, clipped knives look either like pens or maybe beepers, depending on how much of the knife sticks out above the edge of the pocket. Bob's knife, the EDI Genesis has a deep pocket clip, so all of the knife but the clip is hidden.
You'll also find that a clipped knife is easier to get to since it is at the top of your pocket, rather than sitting at the bottom.
You definitely wouldn't want to clip a knife on the outside of your clothing -- you would scare the sheeple and risk losing your knife as well.
Posted on Sep 17, 2000, 10:33 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
Here is my Spyderco Tim Wegner -- a full size "tactical" folder, 3 3/4" blade, 4 3/4" handle, 5oz. While not a "megafolder," it isn't a lightweight either.
Here is the knife closed -- again, it isn't exactly small this way either. But once inserted into the pocket it almost disappears.
As you can see, this large knife is not just innocuous, but still quite easily within grasp. This is the primary charm of modern tactical folders. With a snug clip, the weight is pretty much a non-issue.
Posted on Sep 17, 2000, 11:16 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
Scans are beyond the call of duty, thanks so much!....(more)
Now I can see why weight is not such an issue. I must say, though, that whilst it is the opposite of 'nerdy,' I would immediately think, "THAT GUY HAS A KNIFE!" What else could that be? Not a pen. I will look at the higher clip. But all in all, I'm not about to enter a street fight or skin an elk. The most action my knife sees is opening a cd cellophane or a letter, (like townies with their 4x4's who never go off road), so the wide blade and incurred weight may be lost on me. Can I ask what practical use the wide blade has? Is it for self-defense, a deterrent? Thanks again Carlos.. a real education.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 9:14 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Actually you would probably never see it at all since I usually don't tuck in my t-shirt. A small knife might look like a pen, a bigger one perhaps like a beeper -- frankly, most people don't look or notice anything.
The primary reason that I chose a knife this size was for the handle. You'll find that most knives with blades under 3.5" inches also have small slender handles that can be difficult to grip. I decided that I needed 4.5" to 5" handle to be comfortable, which dictates about a 4" blade.
*Don't forget that all of these knives are designed to be drawn, opened, used, closed, and put away, with only one hand -- not something you may be used to with the Opinel. This manipulation can become difficult if the grip area of the handle is too small.
Second, based on my extensive experience of working with knives, a large knife can do almost anything a smaller knife can do, but the opposite is less often true -- or at least you have to do a great deal more work with the smaller knife to finish the job.
Third, the knife I chose was designed as a hunting/camping utility knife -- skinning an elk was literally one of the design criteria. While for the most part I use the knife for small things, I want something that is versatile enough to do anything I need it to do in a pinch.
Fourth, I would say that I don't think that folding knives are for combat. If I needed a self-defense tool I would get a permit and a handgun. A pocket knife is a utility item.
All of the knives I showed you in my first post are a size smaller than my Wegner. They have blades ranging from 2 7/8" to 3 1/8", with the handles about 4" long. This is probably the most popular size category and may be all you want. There is also a category of smaller knives with 2" blades and 3" handles, and one bigger than mine with 5" blades and 6" handles.
What you have to do is decide what your criteria are, and then inspect a small selection of related knives that fullfill them. Choosing whichever you like best from there is pretty easy.
Finally, the last criteria is a legal one. You should know your state and local laws. Blade length limits are not uncommon. There is no limit where I live, but you may find that your locale limits you to 4" or 3.5" or even just 3 inches. It is an important factor to take into account.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 10:12 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
...that I am also in the market for a small lightweight knife -- but as a backup rather than a primary knife. Why a backup? In my daypack I keep an emergency kit to provide for various contingencies -- first aid, a small flashlight, a waterproof pen, &c. You get the idea. A small knife is more versatile than a pair of scissors, and it is always possible that my primary could be lost, damaged, or simply forgotten at home.
I considered getting a full size knife as a backup, but it doesn't make sense to carry the extra weight for something I hope to never use. So I'm figuring to get a 3" blade folder with aluminum or G10 handles. A smaller knife also gives me an alternative to carry when travelling -- legal hassles of course.
I'm currently considering the upcoming Spyderco Lum "Chinese" folder. the blade shape is modelled on an old cantonese utility knife design. 3 1/8" blade, aluminum handle, linerlock.
Another possibility is the Spyderco/Wegner Mouse knife. It is small enough to be legal everywhere with a 1.9" blade. It's size places it at the bottom edge of the usefulness scale.
I have used folding knives as small as 1 1/2" and at one time my daily working knife was a fixed blade knife with a 10" blade. So I've tried a lot a things and found that there are limits of practicality to both ends of the size spectrum.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 11:29 AM from IP address 184.108.40.206
In retrospect I realized that I didn't really answer you question about blade geometry.
Blade width is mainly a question of stability vs. turning radius. The wider a blade is, the more easy it to make straight cuts. The more narrow a blade is, the easier it is to do small precise carving, but it becomes more difficult to control.
Broad bladed chef's knives make it easy to make smooth even cuts through most anything. A surgeon's scalpel can do very precise cutting, but demand a high degree of dexterity.
A medium width blade with a tapered point allows for the most versatility. The breadth allows for easy control for most generic cutting tasks, while the fine tip allows for precise cutting and carving. It all depends on what you want to use a knife for.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 2:21 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Thanks to Carlos, I was able to find out about Edge Design. See how the knife disappears when clipped inside the pocket. Clips are the only way to go for me. Nothing like fishing around for loose change and a knife in a pair of tight jeans when you need them.
Anyways, I liked them so much, I bought two Edge Design Genesis II's. They have become my daily carry preferable to my Elishewitz Sentinel.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 12:27 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
The verdict: 3 1/4" bladed Opinel is 41 gms (1.44 oz) BUT ....(more)
You've convinced me about the kind you've shown. At 2oz, the Spyderco is remarkable. I doubt I'd feel much of a difference in weight, and it's ten times the knife. Is the very cool (high up) clip on the Edge Genesis 11 available on a wide variety of knives? Why don't all small knives have a high up clip? Would they be available in a regular mall knife shop, or are they rare? How much are they roughly? The Edge handle and blade seems less interesting than the others, apart from the clip. What makes it your ultimate choice Bob? Regardless, good enough for you, certainly good enough for me. I'm sold already, pending actually holding and feeling one, of course. Oh, and checking that it opens cd cellophane easily. Thanks to you both.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 8:07 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
..is the only knife that has such a deep-pocket carry clip. It is a full-size folder with a 3.9" blade and weighs about 4oz. Depending on handle material the price varies from $100 to $130. A mall knife shop may have them, as they are not that rare, just unusual.
Most folding knives come with clips nowadays, and when clipped most will show a small amount of the knife handle -- some more some less.
I don't know which of the Spyderco's you like, but if you'll list your criteria in terms of blade length, lock type, handle material, and price range, we could make a few suggestions for you to check out at the knife shop.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 8:34 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
The blade may not look that interesting to you at first glance, but I feel that the blade consisting of a black titanium nitride coating, modified, and of ATS-34 stainless steel is absolutely the best. I am also very happy with the exceptional smooth opening. (Stiff at first, but becomes buttery smooth within days.)
In my world, whether or not a knife is concealed makes little difference. What makes this knife special for me is that it no longer sits high in my back pocket, scratching the heck out of my car's finish. In case you didn't read the earlier threads, the primary reason I searched out a new knife was because my old Spyderco had a nasty habit of scraping my car door every time I got in and got out of my vehicle. This problem has been solved.
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 9:03 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
Hello Carlos and Bob
My criteria is awaiting my trip to the store because I'll know so much more then, but roughly, a 3 1/2" - 4" blade, pref. 'saw' and plain, simple plain (black?) handle, high clip (only on the Edge, I know), and 2 - 4 oz.. Is this sounding like the Edi Genesis 11 to you? Maybe. But I notice the one on ebay is 4 7/8" long overall. An inch more than I'm used to. I just don't want to be aware I have it on me. Lightness may well still be a factor in that case, because if I feel I'm carrying it, I'll leave it off. May settle for a smaller blade. The Spiderco I liked was the first image. Great profile, black handle. How heavy is the Edi.Gen 11 Bob?
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 9:38 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
i have had a good experience with a gerber e-z out. there are two versions. a large version and smaller version. i have the small version, 5.5 inches full open, 2.5 inch blade. it is a lock back with a clip. i have used this knife for a number of years with no problems. i would be another if this one disappeared.
Posted on Sep 20, 2000, 5:58 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
More than you really want to know. (more - of course)
by Panagra aka Proofer
Hi Bob -
There really is a Swiss Army knife: The knife in your scan is it. It is issued to every member of the Swiss Army (that includes their Air Force, part of the Army.) If you're Swiss and you want a red scaled knife, you buy it on your own nickel, just like the rest of the world.
The design is Federal property, and there are two companies which manufacture it under contract: Victorinox (in the German part of Switzerland), and Wenger (in the French part.) The knives are identical, and you need to look at the stamp on the blade to see which one made it. On the reverse side from the stamp you'll find a two digit number: the contract manufacture year.
Both Wenger (the Wenger family) and Victorinox (the Elsener family) make the most of their status as suppliers, and have marketed the famous red scaled knives throughout the world. Victorinox has been especially successful, and was the original of the two suppliers. The appellation, 'Swiss Army Knife', was apparently brought home after WWII by American GIs who fell in love with these things over there, just as American pilots brought back Rolex in a serious way.
The knife has been available in the USA for several years now. It doesn't have that well known 'Swiss Army' look but it is the real enchilada.
Panagra aka Proofer
Posted on Sep 18, 2000, 7:04 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
It is immensely bright (225 lumens) and actually hurts to look at. The biggest problem is the short run time on three Lithium DL-123 batteries, which is about 20 minutes. This can be extended by switching to the 125 lumen lamp assembly for a total run time of about 1 hour.
Even so, one set of batteries lasts for months because I only deploy this light on tactical entries. The rest of the time I have a Surefire 6P or a Tactical illuminator.
Posted on Sep 23, 2000, 5:35 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
I was considering it, but I am concerned that it doesn't have the stout "microbar" lock of the other MT linerlocks. It seems to be that the double-action version would be the better choice since it will be getting that new steel that MT is upgrading to, while the MA-only knife has 154CM.
Posted on Sep 15, 2000, 2:06 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
"CPM S90v steel is a corrosion-resistant highly wear-resistant steel produced by the Crucible Particle Metallurgy (CPM) process. This steel was designed using a martensitic stainless steel base analysis, to which vanadium and carbon is added for except- ionally good wear resistance. CPMS90V is an excelent candidate to replace CPMS60V where increased wear is a primary concern. To the custom knifemaker, CPM S90V represents a premium corrosion resistant bladestock combined w/exceptional edge holding characteristics.
Hardness: Recommended hardness for CPM S90V is 56-59 HRC, which is designed to provide an excellent combination of corrosion resist- ance, wear resistance and edge toughness. Because of its high alloy content, CPM S90V will out preform higher hardness conventional grades of bladestock.
Heat Treatment: Proper heat treatment is critical to acvhieve optimum edge holding ability and good toughness. CPM S90V requires higher hardening temperatures than common knife grades and care must be taken to protect the blades surface from oxidation during heat treatment. This requires the use of a furnace w/atmosphere controls, or simply wrapping the blade w/stainless foil wrap. CPM S90V is air hardening, like most high alloy tool steel, but a good fast air cool is recommended to acheive proper hardness. Proper tempering is also highly important. Double tempering is recommended at a high enough temp and for sufficent time to relieve stress w/out degrading corrosion resistance or hardness. The end result is a premium quality bladestock."
Basically, it is more corrosion resistant than 154CM/ATS-34 and it should hold an edge twice as long.
Posted on Sep 16, 2000, 12:16 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
...that it would take longer to sharpen than other steels. The trick to attaining the best performance would probably be to avoid allowing the knife to ever become dull by giving it occasional "touch-ups" on a sharpener to maintain the edge.
Posted on Sep 17, 2000, 7:59 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
...is that on "full size" folders, it moves the clip to the aft-end of the handle. Since I primarily grip the knife by the fore-end of the handle, I find this to be both more secure and more comfortable when using the knife.
To clarify, the tightest part of my grip on the knife is at the fore-end of the handle (at the pivot), and it is more comfortable (and secure)not having the clip right beneath the index and middle fingers.
The new Spyderco Gunting, though tip-down, moves the clip to the center of the handle, and is thus acceptable to me as well.
Posted on Sep 15, 2000, 2:17 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
My daily wearer is just a hair shy of 4 inches in length (more)
Carlos would like this- I have been wearing an Edge Designs Genesis almost daily as my tactical folder. The blade is just shy of 4 inches. I prefer this length because it is not obstrusive and rests quite well in my back pocket. It is still long enough to cut items such as seat belts and rope in emergencies with a minimum of hassle. As a back up, I have been carrying a small "Spyderco style" noname knife with a 2.5 inch blade. It's just too short for some jobs, though it makes a great back-up length.
I want to explore the possibilty of a mega folder such as the Rekat SIFU, but I have yet to make the purchase. I'll give further thought of wearability once I get my hands on one.
Posted on Sep 4, 2000, 6:23 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
For the most part you will find that the maximum blade length of "tactical" folders is limited by state and local laws. Knife companies try to sell to the largest audience, so you will find that most tactical folders fall in the just under 4" category. Depending on your locale, you may even be limited to 3.5 or even just 3 inches.
There are other valid (non-legal) reasons for this size:
1. comfortable pocket or IWB carry
2. lock strength -- the longer the knife and blade, the greater the leverage that you can exert on the lock. With even the strongest locks an over 4" blade can become inherently unsafe to the user. According to the President of Spyderco, this is the primary reason why they won't make a folder with a blade over 4 inches.
My daily carry "tactial" folder is a Spyderco Tim Wenger. It has a 3 3/4 inch blade which I find is big enough for most cutting chores, and small enough when closed to be discreet. While there is no length limit where I live, or where Bob lives, there is always the issue of crossing state lines, or even hidden local ordinances in some cities or counties.
Another example of the legal influence on blade length is a new knife designed by FMA instructor Bram Frank. Its blade is just 2 7/8 inches long -- intentionally limited for legal carry almost everywhere in the world. See pic below:
Posted on Sep 5, 2000, 2:27 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
Hi folks, since the blade forum has been kinda slow lately, I figured I'd
post a few pics of my beginner's collection.</p>
This is my dive/outdoors knife. I bought this at a gun show 10 years ago for
$15. It is a Navy issue Mk3. I can safely say that this is the very best deal I
ever got on a knife. It came unused, and after a few minutes on the sharpener,
both the edge and the false edge at the tip were razor sharp. This knife has
been through more abuse than I can remember. I had to modify it a bit for dive
use, mainly by removing the sheath's webbing and attachment hardware, and adding
rubber straps to the sheath. The only downside to this design is that the knife
is held in place in the sheath by a metal clip, which should be removed and
dried/oiled after wet use. I neglected to do that and was rewarded by a few rust
spots on the blade. The butt cap is a solid chunk of steel that's great for
pounding stuff. This is a great knife for wreck diving! So far, this knife's
victims include a few fish I hooked topside, a few abalone clams, a xmas tree
that needed to be shortened by about 2", and my index finger while trying
to pry an artifact off a wreck.</p>
This is a benchmade AFCK. Somehow I guess benchmade licensed the thumbhole
from spyderco, and made a heck of a knife. It has an ats-34 blade, and a
titanium frame with titanium liner lock. I don't carry this one much because our
state's limit on folders is 3" and this one is almost 4".</p>
This is another benchmade, a balisong in all steel construction. You spend a
few hours learning balisong tricks and this knife is a lot of fun. It
intimidates a lot people, so I don't carry it either.</p>
Yet another benchmade (notice a trend?). This one a 3" blade (legal!!)
with emerson design. The blade is interesting in that one side is flat, whereas
the other is angled (see photos). This mades for a nice thick steel wedge that
retains its edge like a dream. I use this knife daily for pretty much
everything. Like the afck above, it has a titanium frame and liner lock.</p>
Hope you enjoyed!</p>
Posted on Sep 1, 2000, 5:13 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Thanks Alex. I wasn't aware of any regualtions like this. It's good to know. Makes you wonder where a number like 3" comes from??? Here's another one for you.
I have done some research on what you can have in the way of a pocket knife when passing airport security. The airports I have checked (by calling or searching their websites) all require the blade length to be 2" or less. I have been told that this is not a federal or international regulation, but is determined by individual airport security regulations. Therfore the 2" rule (actually 5 cm in Foreign airports) may not hold everywhere. It seems to be pretty uniform, however. I have had my Spider Cricket (1.9" blade) measured and passed in Frankfurt, Tokyo, Boston, Atlanta, and several other US airports I don't remember any longer.
A 2.6" long-bladed Walker folder of mone was confiscated in Tokyo a couple of years ago. Although it was carried in some kind of "pouch" in the cockpit and returned to me at the airline office in the States, it motivated me to do some research. You don;t want to lose your constant companion to some airport security geek.
Posted on Sep 3, 2000, 9:04 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
...on blade length: The FAA regulation is a max. of 4"
But as you have seen most airports and airlines have even tighter individual restrictions. Another thing to avoid is serrations -- for some reason these are now universally frowned upon regardless of blade length.
Posted on Sep 3, 2000, 11:23 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
My 2" Cricket has fully serrated blade. Although I've had Narita (Japan) security talking and pointing at the serrations, they let me and my knife through. Otherwise the only scrutiny seems to be pulling out a ruler and measuring the blade length.
Am I just lucky? Is there actually reg at some airports on serrations, or is it just a "concern"? Also, Carlos, if you know where to find the federal 4" reg I would appreciate a lead to that. I'd like to compile as much of this info, with sources, as I can. Once I have it organized I'll post a summary. Thx.
Posted on Sep 4, 2000, 5:33 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
The best course of action when travelling is to take a swap meet (eBay) knife. You can buy them by the dozen for anywhere from $1 to $2 each. I must have three or four dozen new in the box. If I am going anywhere that I need to worry, I just say, "No problemo amigo... just keep the knife."
Another good reason for me to have them is to use them for prying, jimmying locks, and cutting wire. If they get bent, I just toss 'em and pull out another from my kit bag.
Posted on Sep 4, 2000, 8:41 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
...there is no official rule against serrations other than at idividual airports or carriers. According to most participants on the various knife fora, they've been having more and more problems gettting anything serrated through security. Even Spyderco now makes a point of advertizing the plain-edge version of its "copilot" travel knife. I guess that you've been lucky.
It appears that the FAA site that I got the info off of, is down at the moment. I found another one that makes brief mention of the rule, and I quote:
"POCKET KNIVES over four inches may not be carried by a passenger on an aircraft. They may be transported in checked luggage."
Here is a link to the page where I got the above quote:
I once flew with a cane knife (a very nasty looking sicle-like thing, considerably longer than 4 inches) in my carry-on field bag. I had forgotten it was in my bag, or I would have transfered it to my checked bag. They never even batted an eye when I went through the X-ray. I week or two later when I flew again, they stopped me for having a Swiss Army knife in my bag. Go figure.
Posted on Sep 5, 2000, 10:45 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
Need a site from which to order the very LARGE size of this classic low-carbon utility knife for a friend in San Francisco. They do superb (if funky) duty as carving knives for camp kitchens, but apparently Canadian importers only order the smaller models out of Nanny State concealed-weapon anxieties.
Posted on Aug 27, 2000, 8:50 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Yesterday, a couple of boxes of knives arrived from the military. They opened the boxes and issued each one of us one of the knives. They're genuine Kabars. In typical Government fashion, they want us to use and abuse these knives. In fact, they even suggested we might use them as back up dive knives. They were all brand new, old stock. They have probably been sitting for over a decade in the individually sealed packages they came in.
My Lieutenant flipped... he says every Marine who is ever issued one of these tries to keep his to take back to the real world. Many succeed, but others have to be merely content with the tan handled copies they can buy in the PX. He says the marines have to return theirs. He is envious that the Dive Team gets to keep these for our personal kit. Anyone else ever get issued a Kabar?
I'm a happy camper:
Posted on Aug 25, 2000, 8:51 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
The handle is made of stacked (laminated) leather (more)
My Marine friends told me that the issue Ka-Bar's had black leather handles and the ones they could buy in the PX had brown leather handles. A search on Ka-Bar knives today reveals they are switching over to synthetic handles. The use of stacked leather handles originated during World War II and continued through generations of marines who served in Korea, Vietnam and the Persian Gulf. That's the one most of my friends want.
Ka-Bar is a knife company that made a lot of marine fighting knives. Over the years, many companies made the fighting knives, but they were all generically referred to as "Ka-Bars." Mine is stamped, "US Ontario." From a manufacturing standpoint, it's no work of art, but it's one of those things a marine never forgets about his time in the corp.
Posted on Aug 25, 2000, 2:16 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Congratulation, you have the old tried and true Mark 2. I have used and abused these things for years. Like the old SEIKO divers, Kabars are true beaters. Ontario has the current contract. Camillus held the military contract for years i.e. since WW2 but lost it in mid 80's. The Ontario model typically has a deeper ground clip and rougher handle finish than the Camillus or original KA-BAR Mark 2.
If you are interested in having the perfect military dive knife look, I have a Mark 2 plastic sheath made in the 40's for the Kabar. It is a little dirty but perfectly servicable. It was designed to replace the leather model for the Navy guys. Simply attach a flare to the front of the scabbard with 100 MPH tape and now your old Kabar has a respectful home strapped to your calf. Make sure to rub it down with Tuff-cloth, that 1095 rusts just looking at it.
Posted on Aug 25, 2000, 6:27 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Nice knife Bob!
Although these knives are all called Kabars, during WW2 many knife makers made them. I think the first may have been by Camulus. Most were issued to the USN as the MK2. The marines wanted theirs to show USMC, and the rest, we know..
Prior to the Kabar, marines were issued with a stilleto, similar to the British dagger. Pretty blade, but not so good as a utility knife.
Posted on Aug 27, 2000, 1:44 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
It has come to the attention of the Team that.. (More)
It has come to the attention of the Team that, "I hear that the knives that XXXX gave out as military surplus at the last meeting are collector items. Past items were supposed to be maintined by team members for team use. If you plan to sell, give away, trade, or barter this knife I would recommend checking with XXXX first."
I hear rumors of a Rolex Sea Dweller Team issue next...
Posted on Aug 27, 2000, 5:26 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
My latest answer to the Riddle of Steel -- from Spyderco...
Here is the knife which have carried for the last couple of years. It is an interesting design derived from the classic Applegate Fairbain dagger, but it is of limited usefulness for normal cutting chores. In hindsight I should have bought the flat ground version.
The Covert is now retired in favour of my new full-size Tim Wegner designed Spyderco clipit.
3 3/4" ATS-34 blade, 4 3/4" G10 handle. The single steel liner and solid steel spacer actually makes this knife thicker and heavier than the larger Military.
While this is designed as a utiliarian camping/hunting folder, it is the knife that the Gunsite training center wanted as their official tactical folder, but Wegner and Spyderco decided to keep the knife politically neutral.
I love the fact that there is no writing on the blade -- one thing that turned me off about the Starmate and Military.
This is bad, because all of a sudden I want to buy yet another folding knife now.
I currently own an Emerson CDR (my current love), a Benchmade Pardue 300 series manual (my mistress), a Benchmade Pardue auto (the copy of Penthouse I keep under the bed), 4 SOGs (JetEdge, Sogwinder, etc) and a bunch of Spydercos, including a Khalsa and a Harpy. Of all these, The best handling are the Commander and, if it had a better bolster, the Khalsa.
But now, all of a sudden, I want this one.
Posted on Sep 12, 2000, 10:42 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Actually it is a line of waterproof paper from "Rite in the Rain." The even make paper for divers.
It looks like the only way you can write on this stuff is with a pencil, their proprietary "all-weather pen" or Fisher's space pens. Their inhouse pen uses the same technology as the Fishers - I don't know if it is based on the Fisher space pen refill.
The MOD, or rather the Labour Government, has refused to look at any option other than upgrading the SA80. A programme of trials will be undertaken to decide if the weapon is viable for future service but regardless of thr outcome it will stay past the year 2020. To be honest there is nothing that can be done, it has too many design flaws, especially since money is once again the deciding factor. It is very accurate on the ranges but if the weather is hot,cold,wet,dry,humid, or cannot make its mind up the good old SA80 just packs up and refuses to work. Add dirt, snow or sand and the problems are just too much to cope with. You cannot even hit the enemy with it as it is very fragile. Our experience of the M16A2 is, in contrast to the SA80, a good one, used by all SF units it is well liked and interestingly enough far cheaper than the SA80. The ones made in Canada are even better. The only fault, the dodgey mag, is easily overcome by using superior Dutch plastic types. Despite the pleas of our servicemen we will be stuck with the SA80 for a while and as a result more good men will die. It is probably the worst weapon used by a first rate army certainly the only one removed from the NATO approved weapons list. Regards James K
Posted on Aug 22, 2000, 2:50 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
At one point in time, the American M-16 was almost universally hated. Many U.S. GI's still favored the heavy caliber M-14's and M-1 Garands and were highly resistant to giving up a tried and true weapon for what they deemed to be a piece of shit. There is ample evidence that the early specimens were indeed pieces of shit. Jams were frequent and accuracy was questionable. I think they have largely addressed those issues with ammunition and rifling changes. I have two of them and I have never experienced any problems.
On the other hand, my experience with bull-pup guns is with my very own Steyr AUG. Once thought of as a premier military rifle, I can only express doubt and lack of confidence in the weapon. I find it to be extremely accurate--albeit, in between frequent jams. In fairness to the gun, I will refire this weapon after I have changed out the gas seal and ejector springs. One should not have to change those parts in a relatively new gun though.
My favorite 5.56 is the conventional HK series patterned after the G-3 (CETME) rifle. Though I think of my own G-3 as a tack-driver. It is very heavy and I realize the concept of such a heavy main battle rifle is largely obsolete. I do find it fun to shoot nonetheless, and rarely if ever experience any malfunctions with it.
My number one choice from my immediate arsenal? An M-16 derivative Carbine (XM-177E2) aka CAR-15. I have never experienced any problems with my GI issue magazines though I generally take good care of mine.
Posted on Aug 22, 2000, 10:16 AM from IP address 184.108.40.206
I am not sure that Bullpups are the best weapons around......
by James Kellard
...too much of a compromise between overall length and barrel length. We, that is to say certain people I know swear by the M16A2 (just as they had the wonderful old SLR) strangely thier is little use of the M4 carbine which is I believe the modern successor to the CAR15. This is unusual because in many ways UKSF and USSF are very similar, far more than is generally acknowledged and it s not all one way traffic, I have spent a short time with the US forces and they all used the M4, a weapon pretty much rejected by ASASR and NZSAS. James K
Posted on Aug 22, 2000, 10:37 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Begrudging acceptance and going back to the future (more)
The trend I have seen in the past twenty years or so that I have been a part of the community is that old-salts gradually retired and there was more and more acceptance of the smaller 5.56 round over the venerable .308 NATO. I guess there is something to be said for carrying 300 rounds instead of 75.
Twenty years ago, 9mm started to see widespread usage in the states owing to new "Wonder-nines" that held 15+ rounds in staggered magazines and generally improved stopping power. About 5 to 8 years ago, I saw the backwards trend to go back to a heavier caliber. The tried and true .45 and the newer .40 caliber are very popular rounds here in the USA. I myself gave up my "spray and pray 9mm," in favor of the larger .45 caliber a couple of years ago. The funny thing is, I started out life with a 1911 Colt .45, now 20 years later, I'm carrying a .45 again.
With rifles smaller is ok, with handguns, bigger is better.
Posted on Aug 22, 2000, 10:46 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
To be honest I would settle for something I could have confidence in....
by James Kellard
....nothing dropping off(ie mags, bits of plastic etc). A trigger that didnt break and gas parts that did not weld themselves together after a while on auto or stop working at all for no apparent reason. If I fired it with the bayonet on I would like it to stay on not shoot off chasing the bullet. If I could have these things I would settle for anything between 155mm HE and a .22". James K
Posted on Aug 22, 2000, 12:44 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
What the hell is a "tactical pen?" Well, in short what I was looking for was a no-nonsense writing instrument that was reliable and that would work under just about any environmental conditions. Nothing so expensive that I couldn't afford to lose it, but nothing so cheap that it would fall apart under ordinary use. But definitely not an art piece from Delta or Namiki et al.
Naturally it was someone on MWR who mentioned Fisher's Space Pens that got me curious enough to look into it. I'd seen them advertised before but the claims seemed too good to be true -- sort of like those late night infomercials.
Well a small amount of digging showed that they were in fact for real -- as in real NASA issue going qll the way back to the early space program - yes they went to the Moon - and they are still used on the Shuttle today.
What are the specs? Of course, unlike regular ballpoints, they can function in zero gravity, can write at any angle, can write underwater, can write on almost any smooth surface, don't leak, and have a wide operational temperature range (-50F to 400F). This was beginning to look like a serious candidate for my "tactical" pen.
How do they do it? A sealed, pressurized (by nitrogen) cartridge containing an extremely viscous ink ("the consistency of chewing gum"). It doesn't flow by itself and has to be liquefied by the tungsten carbide ball as you write. The shelf life for the cartridge is estimated at 100 years - so no drying out while it sits. I suppose the advantage of using nitrogen to power the cartridge is its pressure stability under varying temperatures. High temperatures won't make the pressure rise and blow up the cartridge.
Well, having found this likely seeming candidate I had to decide which one to buy. All of Fisher's pens use a pressurized cartridge and thus have most of the functional advantages, though case design and materials vary widely. The actual "Astronaut" pens are a subgroup of the Space Pen family. I focused on the Bullet pen and the issue model Astronauts (like Omega there are all sort of commemorative this or thats and other variations).
The Bullet pen is the original Fisher ballpoint pen (1948). The case and cap are solid brass, and the standard model is chromed. For you low-drag types there is a matte black version. The o-ring around the pen's body provides an additional seal when closed - giving it a snug friction fit. I bought one to keep in my cordura daypack just for contingencies. Not bad for $20.
Next is the original astronauts pen, model AG-7. Introduced in 1966, it was the first pen equipped with Fisher's pressurized cartidges. It has been used for all manned space flights starting with Apollo 7 in 1968, after surviving NASA's torture tests. It also uses a chrome-plated all-brass body. The action is operated by two buttons. The design is a bit dated and top heavy. It wasn't in stock at the local pen shop so it lost by default.
The current astronauts pen, model CH-4, is the one I bought for general use. Sleeker and more balanced, it is obviously derived from the AG-7. It was deceptively light at first, but after a while I became very conscious that this is an all-metal pen. The buttons operate with the same satisfying "thunk" as a good folding knife locking-up. Also not bad for $20, and it uses the same standard refills as the Bullet pen - which cost all of $4.
For those of who are allergic to shiny objects, there is a flight-approved variant of CH-4 that has a matte black body, and gold-finished accents: Model CH-4B.
Here are a few very poor scans of my CH-4:
Me working on a new article for Timezone, and an extreme close-up of the deploy and retract buttons.
The grooves engraved for grip (suprisingly effective), and looking down the barrel.
An interesting creature, my tactical ballpoint pen...
Posted on Aug 21, 2000, 4:24 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
...they are quite common - or at least the Bullet pens are. Strangely, the Astronaut pens are less popular than the Bullets - probably because they are more compact when closed, and lighter in weight.
I suggest trying a pen shop first off. They are the only ones likely to have an Astronaut model in stock. Failing that, there are a number of internet dealers, and you can buy directly from Fisher as well. Here are some links:
I've carried both Fisher and Rite in The Rain versions of the same old black bullet pen for 20 years. I'm pretty sure the RitR version is made by Fisher. They are reliable mostly behave as advertised, but I have a few complaints to share.
1: The matte black finish wears off after a couple of months of use revealing the brass.
2: the pen does not always write as advertised. It can be hard to get started and can then produce too much ink. Neverthe less, the "write on anything" part seems to be true.
3: Worst problem is that ink tends to accumulate in a glob on the tip. When you start to write you often get a glob of ink that smears and gets all over everything. I've tried changing refills, but that provides only a shorterm fix.
I have carried and used these pens only within the range of temperatures, etc. in their spec's. It's the only game in town, but it's not a great solution.
Posted on Aug 27, 2000, 8:12 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
A quick overview of synthetic knife handle materials.
Everything you never wanted to know about synthetic knife handle materials.
Knife afficianados, especially "tactical" knife fans are confronted by a number of popular handle materials in use with little explanation as to what they are and why they cost what they do. So I surfed the net and gave myself a crash-course in plastics. Here is what I've figured out:
There are two basic types of plastic in use for knife handles, thermoplastics and thermoset plastics. Thermoplastics are usually described in having "wax-like" properties -- heat softens the plastic which allows you to form it under pressure. Reheating also allows you to reform it. Thermoset plastics in turn are "cured" under heat and pressure into a permanent set form.
In the group of thermoplastic resins we find nylon, which is used for Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon (FRN) knife handles. The most well known form of FRN in Dupont's Zytel. The nylon is reinforced by adding a "glass fill" (by weight) of 10% to 45% with short E-glass filaments. Zytel has about a 30% glass fill -- making it very strong and rigid. The Swiss polymer GV6H (used only by EDI) has an unusal 60% glassfill. The various FRNs are used primarily for their lightweight and low cost, and because they can be injection molded into complex shapes.
Kraton is a black thermoplastic rubber that is used a great deal by Cold Steel, and as an insert in aluminum handles by many knife manufacturers. It has poor resistance to heat and solvents.
"Kydron" is a Kevlar Reinforced Nylon being used by Emerson Knives for its Raven models.
In the group of thermoset plastics we find G10 and Micarta. G10 is is a standard industrial laminate grade of NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association), while Micarta is a proprietary trademark belonging to Industrial Paper. Thermoset laminates are typically composed of two components: A continuous woven cloth of glass, cotton, graphite, etc., and a thermosetting resin that binds the layers of reinforcing cloth into a single unit. The resins vary from epoxies (G10, carbon fiber), phenolics (micarta, carbon fiber), polyester, etc.
G10 consists of a woven E-glass fabric that is bound by a thermoset epoxy, with a typical glass-fill weight of 40% to 70%. Due to the expense of molding any cloth based laminate, G10 for knives is machined from standard flat sheets of G10. Most G10 handles are also sandblasted with a coarse medium at low pressure to reveal the texture of the fiberglass weave. It is prized for its chemical, heat, and electrial resistance, its strength and rigidity, and its low weight.
Micarta is a lamination of either a paper, cotton, linen or other oraganic fabric with a phenolic resin binder. If you want an explanation of "phenolic" check your Britannica, as it is over my head to explain it. I will just say that is has high strength and electrical resistance.
"Carbon fiber" is a blanket term for laminates using carbon fiber fabric. I have seen the binders vary from phenolics to epoxies. There is no way to be sure of exactly what you are getting when a knife manufacturer uses "carbon fiber" handle scales.
Hopefully there aren't too many errors above.
Posted on Aug 19, 2000, 8:18 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
I wore my serrated EDI Genesis all week. I have grown very fond of it. In terms of tactical use, it's actually better suited than the Benchmade/Elishewitz 875 I recently purchased. Though thinner, the Benchmade doesn't balance as well, and I suspect would be harder to hold if it was being used for defensive purposes.
The exceptionally deep-set clip is also a very welcome feature of the EDI.
Verdict: A winner! (Both of them).
Posted on Aug 19, 2000, 10:24 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
I suppose the Benchmade 875 is more of a "Gentleman's" tactical folder. Carry it when you wear a suit.
Having an adequate handle for actual use is one of my fixations. I am a fixed blade kind of guy living in a place where wearing a fixed blade would have the local LE reaching for their sidearms. In learning to live with folders I have gravitated towards thicker handles.
I just ordered a Spyderco/Tim Wenger Clipit since I couldn't find it at one of the local shops. It is supposed to have one of the beefiest G10 handles ever used on a folding knife. Here is a scan:
Scan from 1StopKnifeShop
Posted on Aug 20, 2000, 3:36 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
"Real" hard use knives (fixed or tactical folders)....
Contrary to what most manufacturers claimedthat they were issued, design by so and so. Which begs the question of what do Navy SEALS, Green Berets and other elite forces around the world really carry and use.
Input is appreciated.
Posted on Aug 18, 2000, 5:40 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
check out the offerings from Mad Dog, Busse Combat, and Mission.
A few years ago, Mad Dog actually won a "contract" (for his ATAK) but he had difficulty fulfilling the order so some military units switched to more mainstream suppliers like SOG (not because their products were better though).
Getting back to Strider, they really are used by many military elites.
Posted on Aug 18, 2000, 10:24 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Depends alot on whether it is peacetime or during a "hot" conflict. You'll see alot of M-9 bayonets in the army circles in addition to tactical folders of various makes and models. Navy guys have more use in their environment for knives. Still alot of Ontario Mark 111's, Mark 11's (Kabars) and custom makers offerings. The expensive shiny blades usually stay in the duffel while the beaters like the Cold Steel SRK get the nod. Like Bob mentioned in another post regarding expensive dive watches, are you going to risk the mission to retrieve that expensive watch that just went to the bottom? Tough, inexpensive and expendable usually is the criteria for the majority. All that being said I would still carry my Randall 14.
Posted on Aug 18, 2000, 10:09 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
Need help locating Executive Edge (?) knives... (more)
They look like a pen, even clip to your shirt pocket, and come in about 5 or 6 sizes from the small keychain variety to a large 5 inch version with blackened handle.
The knife resembles a straight edge razor in some respects and the blade can be opened beyond 180 degrees (to nearly 360 degrees). Some users will lay the dull side of the blade against their knuckles and box with the knife in hand.
So my question is, WHERE CAN I FIND THIS KNIFE?, particularly in its original incarnation (I think the brand was "Executive Edge").
P.S. I heard the knife's "inventor" died of a heart attack a couple of years ago (no, it wasn't Al Mar).
Posted on Aug 13, 2000, 4:59 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Knowing that you did not hit "watch level" price points in your knife purchases (at least not yet anyway ) I thought I might direct you to "cheap" knives that even I (being the snob that I am ) endorse. Check out the offerings from Newt Livesay's Wicked Knife Co....I have never heard anything bad about these no bullshit knives (in fact, owners LOVE them...even if they ain't pretty ). Also, Newt is supposed to be a great guy...here's a small sampling:
The Woo neck knife, his most famous design...and only $27! (though I prefer the "Executive" with micarta handles, even though it is a whopping $40!)
The RTAK survival knife ($150)...I've even seen it compared to the Busse Battle Mistress which costs 4X as much!!!
And my personal favourite...the Intrusion Team Knife with hammerhead pommel ($150)
It may also be appropriate for you to check out their Little Pecker (ha ha)
Posted on Aug 13, 2000, 8:01 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Two schools of thought, sharpened crowbar or thin and sharp for cutting. Stryder knives are thick and indestructible. There are alot of makers who provide the same formula as Stryder but Stryder has the Spec Ops affiliation. SEAL and Marine Recon etc. goes along way in marketing your product. They are pricey for a .25 inch ATS-34 beadblasted blade with nylon wrap. But the beauty is the guys behind the product. They are all or where in the same business. Incidently, Stryder submitted a few models for the knife-off at Coronado years ago. They didn't win the Naval contract but thats' ok because Mad Dog did and he fell flat on his face over the deal. Its hard to meet the demand when you are a smaller maker although Mission has been doing quite well with their MPK. Great "hunting" knife!
Posted on Aug 12, 2000, 5:13 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
Sorry Mr Dwyer for the incorrect spelling. You never want to upset on old sniper! Here, I'll put in a plug for Duane:
234 S. Coast Highway, Dept. TK,
Oceanside, CA 92054
"Loyalty Above All Else, Except Honor"
Posted on Aug 12, 2000, 9:03 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
most popular thing in UK forces for a while, every shape and size being brought. Canadian forces being issued with SOG tool, funny no watches though, and this is sought after by our own boys. Anyone got any views on them?
Posted on Aug 12, 2000, 8:38 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
i bought the gerber take off of the leatherman. i am gerber biased as i hve used their knives for many years with great satisfaction. that was the deciding factor. the main difference between the two was the needle nose pliers offered in the leatherman and a more blunted nose in the gerber set. i have used the tool for repairs in refinery work and on the boat.
good luck in your search,
Posted on Aug 12, 2000, 11:25 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
Thanks to your suggestion, I now have two Edge Design Inc. Genesis II knives. One has a plain blade and the other, serrations (EDi Genesis 2120 and 2130).
So far I am very happy with them. They don't open as smooth as the Benchmade 875 I got last week, but they are new and I've only opened them a few times.
I love the GV-6H Swiss Made, Glass Filled Polymer Material, and don't miss the G-10 handles one bit.
There are three features that I really like about these knives. One is a very deep pocket clip. If you recall, my original reason for replacing my Spyderco was that it sat too high in my rear pocket and always managed to snag and scratch my car door's paint. These won't do that. This feature alone, is worth the price of admission.
Secondly, they have 60 RC, ATS-34, black titanium aluminum-nitride finishes. And last of all, the opening and locking mechanisms, are quality wear-resistant bronze alloy bushings, along with Teflon washers and titanium locking liners.
The knives measure 3.9" (blade length), 8.75" (overall), 4.85" (closed), and .115" (thick).
I'll be using these very soon.... How can you beat those features for just $59 each? You can't.
Posted on Aug 11, 2000, 1:08 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Yup, those EDI's have the deepest pocket carry of any clip-on folder. And I'm glad that you got the hardened titanium coated blades - I was worried about the bead blasted version you showed in the initial scan. The coating add $20 or $30 to the knife's MSRP so you got an even better deal than I originally thought.
The bronze bushings should break in pretty quick. These are reported to be some of the smoothest folders in existence.
How is the thickness in terms of back pocket comfort?
Posted on Aug 11, 2000, 1:56 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
I think that this will be my next knife -- I need something to replace my Gerber Covert. This is Spyderco's latest collaboration with Bob Terzoula, and it is based on Terzoula's Starfighter (below left).
The Starmate is unlikely to meet the fit and finish standard of the handmade Starfighter, but it does have a few points in its favour: CPM440V steel blade, eccentric pivot pin (allows adjustement of any blade play), and it is usually priced in the $100 to $120 range. The Starfighter is $425 and the wait is over a year.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 9:36 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
would be the brittleness of the CPM steel. From reviews on this blade the edge tended to chip out. Life is a compromise, either the edge lasts forever but is brittle or soft and easily resharpens. From handling one it feels great. Smooth action, very tight. I had Terzoula's first production model years ago in ATS-34. It was a great knife but as is typical was traded off. I give it two thumbs up because I don't abuse folders. If I need to pry or chop, I'll use the correct tool.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 10:01 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
I tend to agree with Bob on the subject of .45 over 9mm. my experience is from discussion with Police officer friends not personal experience!!!
The Queensland Police force are currently being issued with Glock 9mm semi-auto's, and there have been a few mishaps with them. One of my first aid instructors said that he much preferred the .38 calibre or a shotgun, because it made the bad guys bleed and when they see their own blood they tend to give up easier. Is this true in your view Bob? Again, I have no experience...Down under it is verboten to own weapons of any kind and pocket knives have just been outlawed in the last twelve months!!!
I guess I will have to stick to watches!!!
Best Regards Peter
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 5:33 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
Incapacitation must be swift. Would you feel comfortable in having some stare you down with the business end of a gun and letting them continue to shoot at you until they start to see blood? Ever cut yourself and not feel pain until moments later?
When I am faced with a deadly force situation, I need them out of the picture immediately. It's not a matter of bleeding or not.. They have to be incapable of engaging me.
Your first aid instructor has been watching a bit too much TV. A person getting shot generally does not feel pain initially due to traumatic shock. They will not stop fighting until there is a physical reason that they cannot continue.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 5:47 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
Does size really matter? (Ammo that is not the other)
by James Kellard
I recieved a reply about the comments I made about the 9mm Browning Hi power, previously a highly respected weapon in the UK, apparently in the USA the 9mm is not well rated against newer rounds of a commercial design. Paradoxically this reminds me of comments made by our forces when we had to trade in our beloved 7.62mm SLR's for the 5.56mm SA80 weapon, biggest piece of s... since Noah forgot the outboard motor!
I have used the 9mm, both in the Browning Hi power and Stirling SMG, the most perfect weapon ever!( bet that causes some discussion), and always found those hit either dropped or lost interest very quickly. Why is the Ameican experience of this round so different? Is it not interesting that even snipers are now looking for ever larger ammo, perhaps they wanted to join the artillery! As a point of interest an unfortunate book on 14 Int showed a lot of 7.65mm Walthers, these are people who take their guns very seriously.
Look forward to your comments. James Kellard
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 11:21 AM from IP address 184.108.40.206
I'll cut through the bullshit as fast as I can. Over the last twenty years, I've had the misfortune of seeing hundreds of people shot. I've seen people injured, maimed, and killed with a variety of ammunition from .22 to 7.62mm NATO. One thing I've learned is that the bigger the bullet, the faster and better it incapacitates. Sure, you have wags that tell you that that is not always the case--- but I'm talking from personal experience here and not textbooks.
About three years ago, we were involved in a protracted gunfight lasting over an hour with two badguys equipped with AK-47s and HK-91s. These guys took numerous hits with 9mm (one of them had 39 hits) and just would not go down. One of them finally succumbed to a self inflicted gunshot to the head (that works) and the other to a 5.56mm (M-16) hit to the leg. A month later, the change to the .45 caliber auto had begun.
In Los Angeles, the US Army sends their trauma surgeons for training because they are sure to see a number of bullet wounds on any given night. Over twenty years, I think I've developed a certain level of expertise on bullet lethality. 9mm won't work for me.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 12:18 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Thankfully in the UK we experience only a low level of gun related crime, although this is increasing in places like Manchester much of this being drug connected, so UK police remain foor the most part unarmed. Those who do carry firearms carry 9mm Brownings and MP5's. Except in Ulster where the Royal Ulster Constabulary is an armed Police force supported by the army. The RUC use .38 S&W Revolvers and Ruger Mini 14 5.56mm Rifles, a better weapon than our own SA80 of the same caalibre.
By the way when I was in Bosnia there were seveeral US Police officers serving with the IPTF, some of whom I seem to remember were from the LAPD, very steady and level headed chaps.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 2:59 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
...part of the appeal of 9mm is high-capacity magazines. These have been legislated out of existence (10 rounds max), and since a full size .45 auto can hold as many rounds as a full size 9mm auto (limited to 10 rounds), people tend to go for the bigger slug.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 12:21 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
That may be true for the civilian market... (more)
What you say makes sense for the civilian market and I know that the popularity of .45 ACP and .40 S&W has certainly gone up as high-capacity magazines have been legislated out of ciculation. However, this does not apply in my case. I willingly gave up 15+1 rounds for 8+1 rounds.
It's the first three rounds that count. The rest are just back-up.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 12:54 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
...unfortunately most people have no aim to speak of. Why else did 15+ round magazines become so popolar? "Spray and pray."
This also brings to mind the military ammo restriction on expanding bullets. Could you imagine being restricted to 9mm Military Ball ammo? I can't see how a military force could use pistol calibres smaller than a .45
Of course that doesn't apply to CT units, but I think most of them stuck to .45 anyway.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 6:42 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
There is only one circumstance where I could use 9mm Ball ammo (more)
Nothing beats an MP-5 with selective fire. An MP-5 chambered for 9mm is not only eminently controllable, it is reliable and potent.
An MP-5 does not suffer the ill effects of recoil owing to the dimunitive 9mm caliber coming out of such a heavy weapon. However, nothing beats the shock and stopping power of bullets hitting the center mass in rapid succession. In single fire mode, an MP-5 is just another 9mm. In selective fire mode, it becomes lethal. An MP-5 10mm, becomes a bit harder to handle owing to barrel rise, but I'd still take one of those in a pinch.
For close quarters combat, I'd say three 9mm's to the center mass in rapid succession beats one 45 ACP.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 7:02 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
...to add a "new" message to those threads that have new posts? While I do like being able to read the whole thread with one click, it is much harder to tell if a thread has grown since my last visit.
For instance, yesterday I asked you about dive knives, but I couldn't tell you had responded until I clicked on the thread. There might be reponses or additions to older threads that one could miss simply because one doesn't know they are there. Some kind of "new post" indicator is necessary to optimize this format.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 9:51 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
As you mentioned on another post, dive gear has come a long way. Did you learn on the MK VI twin canister?
Do you have to purchase your own gear for the search and rescue dives? What gear have you found holds up the best in such inclement conditions you have to face? Still using Jet Fins? A lot of questions I know. My interest comes from my own instructor who also worked for the local sheriffs dept as a diver. My hat is off to ya, it is definitely unpleasant work!
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 10:26 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
I learned on a homemade compressor (vacuum cleaner) and hose in my backyard pool, but I digress...
I actually learned using conventional SCUBA tanks. My first regulator was a US Divers Deepstar Regulator dating back to about 1968. Since then, I have pretty much stayed with the US Divers line, though I am thinking of switching to Poseidon Systems. The US Divers regulators of today are made for tropical diving pansies... I need a beefy regulator for work. I am also trained in surface supplied air and use Kirby Morgans on occasion. These are pretty decent when diving in hazmat.
As far as gear, well... I would still be using the original Jet Fins, but my feet outgrew them, or rather my booties did. Over the years, they started adding thick rubber soles to wetsuit booties and the original Jet fins just don't have a wide enough pocket. Still have 'em somewhere though.
Although I have a weight integrated hi-tech Dacor backpack BC, I prefer my Seaquest Military Manta (had to be direct ordered through Seaquest) or even a simple horse collar which I also still use.
I use a UWATEC Air integrated dive computer with an Ocean Datamax Sport Computer and Beauchat bottom timer as back-up systems. The primary reason I use the UWATEC is because the Catalina hyperbaric chamber can download my dive profile in case I get bent. It also has the best tissue loading algorythm I have seen and auto-compensates for altitude diving.
I buy some of my stuff, and other stuff is issued to me. I prefer using and maintaining my own equipment. After all, it's my life.
Anyways, I hope that answers some of your questions.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 10:47 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
The only thing I use a knife for underwater is.. (more)
For cutting myself out of entanglements such as fishing line. Since fishing line is nearly invisible to the eye and it is rather easy to become "birdnested" in it, I carry a knife on my calf and a smaller one on my BC. Hopefully, I'd be able to reach one or the other.
For dive knives, my primary consideration is the ability to withstand corrosion. I don't particularly care about sharpness as I also use my knives to pry scallops off of rocks, etc.
It's always a trade-off with dive knives though. Knives that keep a better edge rust easier and vice versa. Mine don't rust much, if that tells you anything.
In 25 years, I've only had two primary knives. I only replaced my first one because the scabbard finally broke, and that was 10 years ago.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 1:36 AM from IP address 126.96.36.199
My choice, the Surefire Millenium M3 Combat light. 225 lumens of blinding white light. For the first time, lights can be thought of as weapons in and of themselves... (and no Ray, I'm not talking about beating someone with a Mag-Light.) My M3 is so bright, it hurts to look at. The downside of course is that it sucks down juice at the rate of three lithium batteries every half hour of use. I only deploy this light during tactical searches and I use a Tactical Illuminator for administrative light requirements such as map reading and text illumination.
Colt Series 70 Govt .45 Auto is pictured to show scale only.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 9:41 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
A Sabrelite by Pelican. It holds 2 "C" cells. It has a plastic body, Olive color with blackened steel hardware. It too is about 15 years old. Accompanied me on a rather enjoyable week in Grand Cayman. You have some serious light their Bob. Question Bob, does the "white" light bother your night vision or is that a mute point by the time you are breaking down a bad guy's door? Are there occasions were a red filter is advantageous in sneakin and peekin?
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 10:00 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
A red filter is not for stealth, but rather to save night vision. So yes, a white light can kill night vision.
By my definition, a "dynamic crisis entry" means coming in fast and hard, and that means a lot of noise, smoke, and light to add to the confusion. When you are making a dynamic entry, the point is to make diversionary noise whether it be by deploying flashbangs or by using a battering ram.
Now if you're talking about stealthy room clearances.... I don't think the Ninjas exist who can walk into a house and clear room after room without announcing their presence to a bad guy. You can turn down the radio, but with all the crap that guys carry, it's just too much to hope for. I teach, turning on all lights as we get to them.. You're not fooling anyone, and the extra light helps.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 10:09 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
reliable, powerful enough for a pistol, easy to use and teach, used to love em ( I am a medic by trade and shold not form attachments to weapons. but..) In the last two years however there have been a few serious injuries and one death casued by weapons exploding. Reason - a combination of very old weapons and the cheapest unchecked quality ammo the MOD can buy.
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 1:14 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
In the USA, we regard the 9mm as a dimunitive and ineffective round..(more)
Good morning James,
I can't get into 9mm as a potent stopper. .45 Cal is my preference, 10mm or .40 Cal are also useful to me.
I currently carry .45 Caliber 230 grain Ranger SXT Controlled expansion(Black Talon) round--- This bullet is fairly politically incorrect, but I like it. I would never give up this round in favor of 9mm.
Here is an excerpt of the FBI report on Black Talon:
...This is where the police only Winchester Ranger Talon (formerly Black Talon and Ranger SXT) bullet departs from conventional expanding hollowpoint bullets. Ranger Talon adds an additional wounding mechanism: cutting.
When Ranger Talon expands, its copper jacket peels back to form six sharp claws. These claws protrude outward just slightly beyond the smooth outer edges of the mushroom-shaped lead core shoulder.
Upon impact with flesh Ranger Talon performs identical to conventional hollowpoint bullets. However, as it penetrates and slows it does not suffer a decrease in effective bullet diameter. This is because tissue that stretches and flows
around the smooth shoulder of the mushroom-shaped lead core comes into contact with the sharp copper jacket claws and is lacerated...
...if Ranger Talon happens to pass very close to a major cardiovascular structure, instead of merely shoving it aside as it passes by, one of the six claws might be in position to cut the wall of this structure to cause profuse bleeding.
Works for me,
Posted on Aug 10, 2000, 1:26 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
This talk about bullets that can rip flesh and cause profuse bleeding is IMHO stretchin the scope of this forum to what I perceive as a limit of good taste. We could discuss an endless number of methods and results of the application of force to living tissue but I think that the spirit of this forum is more an appreciation of the engineering and asthetics of fine equipment than what it does to human flesh. By the way those rounds are also available in 9mm so what exactly is your point? I dont get it.
Posted on Aug 18, 2000, 7:49 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
I used to collect knives, but have lost interest and may sell off the ones I have. Comments on current USA value and any expressions of interest in the following:
Imperial m3, guard marked
KaBar USMC, leather sheath, blade marked
Camulus USMC, guard marked, includes tag
Pal USN Mk-2 with red spacers
Randall Model 16 waxed leather c1995
Randall Model 1,7" c1970 Black marcarta, black sheath, carbon blade
Randall Model 5,5" c1970s,SS, Johnson Roughback, Wood handle.
All are excellent, as new condition, except the Imperial m3, which is very good/excellent.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 5:44 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I hesitate to offer an opinion on the value, but from what I can see you have some valuable models for the collector. The Johnson sheath alone is very desirable as well as the Imperial M3. Berry Levine is a good guy on the Military models to check with. Bob Gaddis or Tom Clinton (no relation)would be a good guys to offer the value of the Randalls. If you want to liquidate the collection, you could call Paul Basch who buys for A.G. Russell. He travels the country buying knives and reselling in their publications. E-Bay would probably fetch a very fine price as well.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 5:40 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Of all the boots I have ever tried, Danners are the best and offer the most support. Forget Hi-Tec, they are cheaply made Asian imports. Adidas are nothing but tennis shoes with boot sides. While they are comfortable, they offer little support and very little protection underneath from rocks. They also wear out quick. I also used to wear Rocky Boots. I have a pair now, but the soles are just too soft. They too offer little underfoot protection. Thorogoods are also an option.
In an urban environment, you could get away with a lesser boot, but in rugged terrain, I think Danners are going to be your best bet. One downside to Danner boots is that they are heavy. If you want to feel light on your feet and don't need the support, you might try Rocky's or the Adidas. A good way to go is with the mid-height shoe/boots. In fact, I don a pair now and then when I'm not planning on invading a beachhead.
Posted on Aug 8, 2000, 10:19 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
What model Danner boot do you prefer? Full leather or Cordura/Leather mix? I had a pair of Rockys' for 10 years. They finally wore out. It was a great boot but I had the smooth sole which wore out rather quickly.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 5:52 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
I wear Danners full time now, but one of my all time favorite boots was my pair of Doc Martins. They were pretty comfortable once they were worn in, but also pretty fashionably cool. The only downside was having to dye the yellow thread around the sole all black. They did get recognized a time or two by the street savvy, and most often received an approving glance.
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 6:06 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
In the British Army,we know a thing or two about walking, Matterhorn Orion Boots have found a good following over the last few years Danner are less popular. We have a boot called the Pro-boot which is similar but not resoleable or, in my view as well made. Those who know (SAS, Pathfinders, RM Patrol Troop and Commachio) always seem to wear US Jungle Boots, except in the artic!
Posted on Aug 8, 2000, 11:56 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
This is an individual opinion. I have no expertise with boots other than wearing them for twenty years and being fortunate enough to have two healthy feet.
I agree with James as far as the Jungle Boots are concerned. Mine are 1969 vintage and they are like slippers for comfort. They provide good side support (for the occasional occurance of being H.U.A. and stepping in a hole) and have a steel shank to prevent nasties from going through the boot. I can't comment on the current version because I have no knowledge about them.
My current work boot (when I'm not in a suit being soft) is a Justin Roper with laces. It's all leather, provides good ankle support, can be resoled, shines well and is very comfortable.
James, a Justin Roper is similar to a leather combat boot when it has laces. I met some Officers from El Paso, Texas PD and they wear ropers without laces (a slip on boot) because someone in their chain of command decided western boots are inappropriate attire (ie. politically incorrect).
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 12:27 AM from IP address 188.8.131.52
I wear Boots to work everday they have to last & be comfortable. Waterproof & breathable.....So Ive worn the Danners and I look around on the internet for another pair I find this web site WWW.bellevilleshoe.com they are the largest contractor to the military and have been for 40 years I got a pair of the USMC infantry combat boots and fricken love em! the best part was they were 50% of the Danners $100 shipped. Good service good boots. Not quite as durable as the Danners but 90% there for about half the cost. Good vibram sole and Goretex I was really happy.
I might have got the website wrong but its close enough if your looking
Posted on Aug 9, 2000, 7:19 PM from IP address 184.108.40.206
Danner seems to be the best but I would go for the "bloodproof" Rocky's (simply because I am a sucker for such things)...yes, Bob, I know you think Rocky's are too mushy...
On the other hand, those EZM guys (forgot the acronym for the German border patrol) all wear Addidas...that must count for something, right?
Posted on Aug 13, 2000, 12:41 PM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Is the false edge sharpened? If no, would it still be considered a double edge knife in MA?
I can't tell from the pict if the top is sharpened. Seems interesting the double edge law you are referring to. So many of Randall's hunting models have a sharpened false edge. These models are certainly not designed as man killers, rather the sharpened false edge serves a useful purpose such as splitting joints. Given a choice, I prefer a single edge for a general purpose blade. But laws being what they are tend to demonize "dangerous" looking tools. At one time German soldiers in WW 1 found to be in possesion of a saw back Mauser bayonet were shot on site by the British and American troops. The thinking was that the bayonet presented more of a threat to survival from the wound than the standard model. Ironically, the saw back model was designed for the engineer battalions as more of a useful tool.
Late sixties saw the advent of saw teeth on the Gerber Mark 11. Reason being the post exchange folks thought the double edge knife looked too much like a weapon for dispaching the enemy. Saw teeth were added to make it look more like a "survival" knife.
Don't get me wrong, laws are needed to seek to curb the bad guys but sometimes even innocuous looking tools (screw drivers) can instantly become deadly weapons in the hands of the wrong person.
Wow, how verbose simply from a posting. Apologize for the speach. How do others feel about knife rights?
Posted on Aug 8, 2000, 9:45 PM from IP address 18.104.22.168
Weapons of destruction are on their way out... (more)
Each year, our rights are further eroded with respect to weapons systems. I used to walk through town with a .22 slung over my shoulder on the way to the "fields." Try doing that today. I took "Gunsmithing," as a shop class at my high school. Today? I don't think so...
Within the next generation, the only thing we will have left to collect is wristwatches. Imagine that, grown men collecting wristwatches. Oh, but they'll outlaw the radioactive dials and hands.
Posted on Aug 8, 2000, 10:23 PM from IP address 22.214.171.124
...is serrated. It is a very useful design since serrated edges cut certain things better than smooth ones and vice versa. One knife enabled for any cutting task. A much better solution IMO than a 50/50 edge on one side.
Of course on could just carry two knives, one plain and one serrated, but I'm lazy.
If you want to know where knife laws are going look at England. Maximum carry is a 3" blade, and you have to have to be able to justify your need for it -- guilty until proven innocent.
Posted on Aug 8, 2000, 10:34 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199
don't ever use it! No but seriously, I have found the Spyderco system to work well for that kind of grind. Just keep the blade steady on the motion down the sticks. If you have the single bevel grind, work the sharpened edge until you develop a burr. Then strop the opposite side on a piece of cardboard with a little rouge on it. This will remove the burr and you have a good sharp working edge.
Posted on Aug 7, 2000, 9:37 PM from IP address 188.8.131.52
Your best defense against knives is running away as fast you can in the other direction. There is no dishonor in saving yourself a lot of pain and stitches.
Most responsible martial arts instructors will demonstrate this by giving the most junior student a chalked rubber knife, and pitch them against a senior student. Invariably, you get a baffled junior black belt student covered in chalk marks.
While in the service, for a while I taught others unarmed and CQ combat, among other things. That still didn't prevent me from learning my own lesson the hard way: Until this fateful day, I hadn't fully realized that you will fight differently and take way less chances if not planning on eliminating the other person. To make a long story short, myself and few of the guys ended up at this less than reputable watering hole, and the opportunity presented itself for me to demonstrate my how-to-defend-against-knife-attack skills. The difference was I didn't plan on dispatching the other guy to kingdom come and modified my move.
I still have an ugly scar on my face from that mistake.
If you must, however, learn about this ugly trade, find your local martial arts center and take classes. No book or video will ever begin to prepare you for such a situation.
Just my opinionated $0.02
Thanks for reading,
Posted on Aug 7, 2000, 6:11 AM from IP address 184.108.40.206
I guess you are right,I remember when my instructor(4th degree Black Belt)say the same thing when confronted by the same question of what would he do if he was faced with an adversary armed with a machete.
Probably if when cornered, and faced with no choice then we need to fight our way out.
Posted on Aug 7, 2000, 9:06 AM from IP address 220.127.116.11
Another word to the wise. Confucious say: "Never take a knife to a gun fight." In these days of ultra-violence in the mean streets, about the worst thing you can do is to pull a knife in an offensive posture. Here in Los Angeles, there are very good odds that your opponent is going to pull a gun.
Remember the kids game, "paper, rock, scissors?" Well, guess who wins in, "paper, knife, .45?"
Posted on Aug 7, 2000, 9:32 AM from IP address 18.104.22.168
Bob and I had a partner named T.M. I'm using his initials only. "T" was a very, repeat very tough man. Ex Army Special Forces, Viet Nam, Cambodia, body guard. Bounty Hunter when he was younger. Tough man. He gave me some good advice. If you are going to get stabbed put an arm in the way or hand in the way. Take the hit in a non vital area and then shoot the knife user. Not all of us are in occupations where we are armed or in countries where you can even own a concealable firearm. I've been handling bad guys for 26 years and my stongest desire is to go home after work. I have no problem with shooting, stabbing, hitting with any blunt instument or putting one foot in front of the other and running like hell until I can improve the tactical situation. If your going to be stabbed take the hit in a non vital area then use what tools you have available to survive and win. If not give up and die. Those are your choices. Read all the books you want but if you don't practice your techniques, maintain physical fitness, be aware of your surroundings and be able to recognize the threat the books will be of no help.
Posted on Aug 8, 2000, 1:36 AM from IP address 22.214.171.124
I believe the Fairbairn knife and subseguent combat knife training evolution began with 2 China Marine Officers, Sam Moore and Sam Yeaton. The knife was designed under Fairbairn's supervision at the Shanghai Police Armory. Lt. Samuel Yeaton once told his brother "If he (the enemy) wants to box, I'll wrestle . . . and if he wants to wrestle, I'll use judo . . . but if he uses judo, I'll pull a knife on him . . . and if he pulls a knife on me, I'll shoot the son of a !$@#*%^)!
Seems to kind of sum it up. Start running now!!
Posted on Aug 7, 2000, 9:55 PM from IP address 126.96.36.199