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6 speed tremec behind an FE?

March 1 2009 at 9:22 AM

Doug  (Login 67FEfastback)
Members

Have any of you guys done this swap.
Is the six speed strong enough

What does one need to hook it up?

Thanks

[linked image]

Thunder's Home Page
http://www.pacificthunder.com

 
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Brent Lykins, B2 Motorsports
(Login blykins)
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It can be done very easily....

March 1 2009, 9:59 AM 

You just need a bellhousing to adapt them. I sell Quicktime bellhousings, and they offer a nice bell that adapts a T-56 to an FE.

However, you will find out that a T-56 is not cost effective compared to a TKO 600. The 56 is more expensive and the torque capacity just isn't there unless you spend a lot of dough and upgrade them.

I've found that a lot of my customers just want them to say that they have a 6-speed. However, the smaller size, cheaper price, and higher torque capacity of the TKO 600 is a no-brainer to me.

 
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Beoweolf
(Login beoweolf)
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What he said ... The double overdrive is not "That" big of a deal.

March 1 2009, 10:09 AM 

For the money (I'm pretty sure a T-56 runs about grand or more over the TK-600, not to mention the adapter upgrades) and gear selections. Everything past 4th gear on both the 5 speed and 6 speedĀ are actually overdrive gears.

If you need it, want - go for it!


 
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(Login Bad427stang)
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I researched it and almost bit, but the TKO-600 was a better deal

March 1 2009, 10:02 AM 

Not only due to price, but it was significanly cheaper.

The 6 speed almost has too many gears for a BBF, if you gear it so 1st is usable, 6ths is ridiculously tall, if you gear it for 6th, 1st is too deep.

In addition it takes a lot more cuting of the floor pans, doesnt shift quite as easy, doesnt seem to be significantly stronger, and doesnt just "plug and play"

The TKO-600 uses a stock length 4 speed driveshaft, bolts to a stock 4 speed bell or blow shield, uses the stock speedo cable and gear, almost passes through the stock shifter hole, and is a nice spread from 1st to 5th.

Now the shock factor of a 6 speed may be slightly better, but I currently launch like a close ratio Toploader with a 4.56 gear in the rear, and when I hit 5th its a like a 2.36:1 gear.

Any more shifting would just give me an opportunity to miss another one happy.gif



[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

 
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(Login johnvermeersch501)
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Dont overlook the

March 1 2009, 10:57 AM 

Richmond 5 sp OD while comparing...fits better (no floor work)smaller / capacity similar/ bolts to stock style BH

 
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(Login Bad427stang)
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No floor work but maybe a shifter hole

March 1 2009, 11:00 AM 

I have zero Richmond experience, and I am sure they are good, but for a street driver that internal rail shifter on the TKO is sure slick.

Plus I do think they are 3000 dollars, including the shifter.

They certainly are a more traditional design if you dont want to trim the floor crossmember on a Mustang

[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

 
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(Login 67FEfastback)
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I'll definitely check the gear ratios

March 1 2009, 11:35 AM 

I'm kind of looking for a set up where I can get a tall highway gear for summer cruising long distances.

I have been eyeing the TKO-500 and 600. I thought I'd ask the question about the T-56.
I heard the T 56 was a little weaker than the TKO. Is that accurate

[linked image]

Thunder's Home Page
http://www.pacificthunder.com

 
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(Login Bad427stang)
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Yes its weaker than the TKO

March 1 2009, 1:26 PM 

For reference, my TKO with a 3.70 gear and the .64 OD is equal to a 2.36 gear.

In other words that is 1700 RPM at 60 mph with my 275/60 radials, 100 mph is only 2850 rpm!

Now, the beauty is, compare first gear

My 3.70 rear X 2.87 1st gear = 10.61:1

If you work that backwards from a wide ratio toploader 10.62/2.78= acceleration equal to a 3.81 geared car

So as a passenger once told me, and I quote

"It was like being in a F-in tornado, then you dropped it into 5th and idled away!"

(Sorry he's a Chevy guy, but I gave him a white knuckle ride) LOL

[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

 
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Brent Lykins, B2 Motorsports
(Login blykins)
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Yes, much weaker.

March 1 2009, 1:39 PM 

The TKO 600 is rated for 600 continuous (not peak) lb-ft of torque.

The regular T-56 is rated for 450 lb-ft.

We can upgrade the T-56 so that it will handle much more torque (putting the Viper T-56 guts in it), around 550lb-ft, but it is still around $1100 more than the TKO 600.

As for gear ratios:

TKO 600:

2.87
1.89
1.28
1
.64 or .82

T-56

2.97
2.07
1.43
1
.80
.62

Viper T-56

2.66
1.78
1.30
1.00
.74
.50

Hope this helps, let me know if I can answer anymore questions:

brent@b2motorsportsllc.com

 
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Mike Lawson
(Login boss521)
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Re: 6 speed tremec behind an FE?

March 1 2009, 11:59 AM 

I have a TKO 600 behind a 521 in a 70 Mustang and absolutly love it but I am using a scatter shield and a hydrolic release set up, I am now in the process of putting a TKO behind a 428 and use a factory bell and Z bar set up and I am having trouble getting information. From what I have figured out so far is you can get a TKO with a FE short shaft kit for an additional 250 bucks if you are ordering a new trans, or you can get a standard shaft TKO and deeper bell for about 500 bucks or add an spacer plate to stock bell. I am told that you have to use the 390 release lever as opposed to the 428 lever but I have not been able to confirm this. I would think that someone sells a kit but I have not been able to find one. Has anyone out there ever converted a standard shaft TKO to a short shaft? how hard is it?

 
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(Login Bad427stang)
Members

Thats what I did

March 1 2009, 1:20 PM 

FE scatter shield, stock depth. No spacer, short input shaft, stock Z-bar, 390 style small throwout bearing and fork.

Mine was a big/in out Toploader before the swap

Bolted together slicker than goose stuff, and maintains factory driveshaft length.

Check around, the short shaft was much cheaper than 250 bucks when I bought mine, but its been a while.

You dont have to do the work, since the second year of the TKO-600, Tremec makes their own Ford short shaft, it comes all assembled

[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

 
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(Login SnakePilot)
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Shifter Hole?

March 2 2009, 3:49 AM 

Did you have to enlarge the shifter hole forward without using a trans spacer? I used a spacer which put the shifter in the center and slightly right of the factory hole. I always felt the shifter in Mustangs is too far forward to start and used an offset shifter to move the shifter back and left so it is eaier to reach without having to use a "funky" looking shifter.

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

 
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(Login Bad427stang)
Members

I had to trim it a bit

March 2 2009, 8:42 AM 

Here is a pic, its in 1st gear

[linked image]




[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 4 speed

 
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Brent Lykins, B2 Motorsports
(Login blykins)
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I can answer all your questions...

March 1 2009, 1:34 PM 

You do have two options: 1. Run the TKO with the short shaft kit. I sell them cheaper than $250. They are very easy to install. If you have access to a bearing press, you can install the whole lot in about 15 minutes. I sell the transmissions with the shaft already installed, or the transmission with a separate short shaft kit. It comes with the shaft, a new input shaft bearing retainer, a new bearing, a seal, and shims. 2. Your other option is to use a Quicktime bellhousing, which uses the stock TKO length input shaft, but it will put the transmission out about 3/4" away from the motor than with a stock/Lakewood bellhousing.

The input shaft on the TKO 600 is a 1-1/8x26 spline. You can use a small input shaft Toploader clutch fork as the throw out bearing for the TKO is pretty much the same size. I sell the clutch forks as well, and have them to work with a mechanical linkage setup or a hydraulic setup.

If you have any more questions, feel free to shoot me an email. I offer package deals from time to time, that come with everything including the pressure plate bolts and pilot bushing. I can sell the transmissions either way, with a Quicktime bell, or with a Lakewood bell and short shaft.

brent@b2motorsportsllc.com

 
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(Login 1966Tbird)
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TKO 600 4x4 transfer case?

March 1 2009, 12:23 PM 

can you get a transfer case behind a tko 600 i was thinking about swapping one into my truck i'm tired of my AOD

[linked image]

 
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(Login gaffney1951)
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Running TKO 500 ...

March 1 2009, 2:07 PM 

in my sons Galaxie. Only 20 miles on it so far but I sure enjoyed it. Have 2 TKO-600's going in the 66 F-250 and my 66 mustang, both FE's. I'am thinking the truck should be pretty straight forward (2-wheel drive), but the mustang with the FE should be a little more work. I was going to do the viper spec T-56 which will handle the same load, but my blue collar upbringing just would'nt let me write that big a check for a trans setup. If you use the Quick time bellhousing you can run the standard shaft TKO and drop about 20# over a McLeod or Lakewood piece for the same money. I got my stuff from Brent. Mike

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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(Login pkoehrer)
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6 speed swap

March 1 2009, 2:17 PM 

I have done it on my 67 mustang hardtop. It is a T5 Z model from ford motorsport. my engine is a 390 I used the stock clutch and all linkage etc. and then used the stock big block bell housing for the s code mustangs and used the same adapter plate that you would use on the small block setup it works great and is an economical swap. people tried to rip me off on the bellhousings but I found a decent one for 100.00 the adapter plate is 150. at most mustang vendors and I had to shorten the drive shaft an inch as is usually done on the small block setup. the T5 holds up great and i have 3.89 rear end gears. I would never take it to a drag strip though as it would probably eat my tranny I have some pictures of the mock up if you like just email me and I'll send them

 
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jon
(Login 70tp)
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complete package?????

March 1 2009, 2:55 PM 

is there a kit or parts available for clutch pedal and related stuff to complete the swap from auto to stick in a '70? I see a lot of trans kits but not a lot on the rest of the swap -- hydraulic or manual? thanks

 
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(Login tomposthuma)
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T56 vs 5 speed

March 1 2009, 6:22 PM 

The problem I see is that the 5 speed doesn't have a very versatile overdrive ratio. A .64 is fine on the freeway but everywhere I drive has 40 miles of 50mph country roads before i get to a freeway and .64 is way too high to be able to use 5th. A .82 wouldn't be enough overdrive to be worth swapping. I'd just be leaving a 4 speed in it and using a taller tire.

I don't really need six gears, just one in between direct and a .64 OD.

 
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(Login Bad427stang)
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.64 may seem tall on paper

March 1 2009, 7:03 PM 

But I use my .64 5th gear everywhere

489 inches certainly helps, but it certainly isnt too tall as long as the motor isnt overcammed.

Dont underestimate the .82 either though. That makes a 3.89 gear equiv to a 3.18 final drive, thats quite a difference in my book.

On the short stroke motors that a heck of a lot more convenient than a tall tire that kills every gear



[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

 
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(Login wowens)
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TKO 600 works great

March 1 2009, 6:19 PM 

You have two choices of od ratio and can get with a short shaft that will fit a stock FE bell housing. Mine has a .64 (i think) od and at 70 engine turns 2050rpm with a 3.90 gear and 28.5 tires. Got mine from Liberty, they did their magic to make it stand appx 900 lb ft and shift extremely good. Stock TKO 600 is about $21/2200 everywhere now.

 
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Adam Dice
(Login no_dice6)
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TKO in F-100

March 2 2009, 11:51 AM 

I've been thinking of putting a TKO-600 in my 1972 F-100. Correct me if I am wrong, but I have been told that the pickup bellhousing is deeper than the car bellhousing. So if that is correct, I would not need a TKO with a short input shaft if I am using the pickup bellhousing. Is that correct?

 
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Brent Lykins, B2 Motorsports
(Login blykins)
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I'm not familiar with the depth of the truck bellhousing...

March 2 2009, 12:24 PM 

....however, the bellhousing needs to be pretty close to 7.050" from flange to flange to work with a regular input shaft on a TKO.

 
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Adam Dice
(Login no_dice6)
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Re: I'm not familiar with the depth of the truck bellhousing...

March 2 2009, 5:16 PM 

I hope someone else jumps in that can confirm or deny, but I've also been told that a small block Toploader will bolt to a FE with a pickup bellhousing with no other modifications.

 
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Kjcfe
(Login Kjcfe)
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I've had a Toploader and a TKO in mine....(Pict.)

March 2 2009, 5:53 PM 

My memory is a little rusty on the exact order of changes that I made to my truck over the years; but...if I'm not mistaken I put a small input Toploader in my F100 with the original bell-housing and ran it that way for several years. Then later I installed a Lakewood bell-housing using the same Toploader. I didn't realize there was a difference in depth at the time, but I believe there is. But I had no problems using either combination. FWIW, the TKO will fit in the F100 with good clearance to the trans. hump if the truck has the bolt in trans hump installed. My truck didn't have it, but I picked up the hump cover in a salvage yard, and cut out my floor pan to match. Without the removable hump cover the TKO is almost 2 inches too tall, as you can see in the photo. I just installed my TKO a few months ago. I bought the 2" offset shifter to use with it. Hopefully that will help someone.



[linked image]

 
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(Login Bad427stang)
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Should be the same

March 2 2009, 5:59 PM 

FE and 385s both do this with the trucks so a single transmission can be used, especially with 4x4s.

We put a 460 in a buddies Mach doing the same thing using a truck bell and a SBF Toploader.

[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, TKO-600 5 speed, 3.70 9 inch
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 5 lug Dana 60, 4 speed

 
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