Login  /  Register  
  Home  -  Forum  -  Classifieds  -  Photos  -  Links     

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Sealing oil pan with a windage tray?

August 10 2011 at 4:47 PM
Paul Lovett  (Login Paul_Lovett)
Members

Probably a stupid question, but what is the best way to seal an oil pan with a windage tray? I put two pan gaskets on, one above the tray and one below, along with a thin layer of RTV on all sides.

My oil pan is leaking at the very rear. I've retorqued the bolts and it's still leaking quite a bit. I'm going to take it off and re-do it. I'm just wondering what the best way is. Maybe just use one oil pan gasket and use RTV? If so would you put the gasket between the windage tray and the pan? And use RTV between the windage tray and the block?

thanks,

paulie

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
cammerfe
(Login ECTARACER)
Members

Paulie---, I've never had....

August 10 2011, 4:52 PM 

a problem sealing a windage tray, but if I did, instead of two gaskets and RTV, I think I'd just use a line of 'Right Stuff' on each surface after making sure all the surfaces are clean and flat.

KS

 
 Respond to this message   

JoeW
(Login tnlprt)
Members

Re: Sealing oil pan with a windage tray?

August 10 2011, 5:09 PM 

used on timing chain cover and oil pan and windage tray gaskets

It will stick em good

Permatex

Indian head shellac

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/Permatex_Indian_Head_Gasket_Shellac_Compound.htm

And actually will clean off with a razor blade scraper and elbow grease


    
This message has been edited by tnlprt on Aug 10, 2011 5:10 PM


 
 Respond to this message   

Rod C
(Login MT63AFX)
Members

IMO, you're making a common mistake retorquing a used......................

August 10 2011, 5:14 PM 

...............oil pan to fix a leak (many do this on used valve covers as well). You must check and straighten the oil pan rails for being straight/true. Over the years previous owners may have overtorqued and distorted the rails and now you're tightening them even more to fix a leak. Remove pan and lay it upside down (cleaned of oil of course) on a flat surface, like a marble countertop or plate glass and look for distortion. I use two gaskets to sandwich the tray (I glue nothing to block or head surfaces), Rod.

Mickey Thompson's 63 1/2 #997 S/S Hi-Rise 427 Lgt/Wgt Galaxie,
1957 C-600 Cab-over carhauler w/390-4V, 2-speed rear-end
FGCofA member #4908
MCGC member #75

"There will ALWAYS be an FE in my LiFE"

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   

qikBBstang
(Login qikbbstang)
Members

LOL at Rods mentioning the "on a flat surface, like a marble countertop or plate glass

August 10 2011, 5:55 PM 

and look for distortion." Years ago I had to provide an
auxiliary HEPA Filtration package to a contractor so they could hook up a trailer mounted HVAC package and furnish air to the Navy's Instrumentation Shop while they replaced the shops old HVAC system with a new one.
In that shop was pair of Pool Table sized granite Starrett tables that each looked to be well over a foot thick.. In an Eddie Haskell sort of way I pictured a moron bringing a cylinder head in and tossing it on the table..I can't even begin to imagine what had to be the cost to Uncle Sam of just one of those tables?

bb


    
This message has been edited by qikbbstang on Aug 10, 2011 6:05 PM


 
 Respond to this message   

Howie
(Login ScotiaFE)
Members

There are resonable prices

August 10 2011, 6:38 PM 

How big do you want?
I have a 2' x 3' plate black granite. Big enough for a FE engine block.
It's only 1 1/2" approx thick but it does all the rough work I've ever done.
I had it made in a counter top shop. 2 guys can pick it up and move it around. lol
I use as coffee table most of the time.
The higher the certification the more they cost.
Mine was made during the test on the machine that polishes the stone.
I was fixing the machine and took the stone home with me.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/STARRETT-TRU-STONE-GRADE-PINK-SURFACE-PLATE-48X72X10-/400234110194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2fcfdcf2



Evinrude 9.9 outboard 1969 Vintage
Stihl MS211 with optional Chrome Goalie Mask
427 Genesis

 
 Respond to this message   

Rod C
(Login MT63AFX)
Members

We've scrapped quite a few marble tables at work. Mostly a..............

August 10 2011, 7:14 PM 

...........foot to two foot thick, 4'x6' top measurement. Remenats can be had cheaply at a granite/marble supplier or use the kitchen countertop at home, Rod.

Mickey Thompson's 63 1/2 #997 S/S Hi-Rise 427 Lgt/Wgt Galaxie,
1957 C-600 Cab-over carhauler w/390-4V, 2-speed rear-end
FGCofA member #4908
MCGC member #75

"There will ALWAYS be an FE in my LiFE"

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   

Marty Haynes
(Login fairlane_man)
Members

Have I ever mentioned that Paulie does great garage burn-outs?

August 10 2011, 6:00 PM 

And makes some darn fine beer, too. Hey, Paulie, how's it going? Next time I'm going to capture one of your burnouts on my phone and post the video...

 
 Respond to this message   
Paul Lovett
(Login Paul_Lovett)
Members

Thanks Marty!

August 11 2011, 3:38 AM 

I'm not sure if I'm proud or ashamed. happy.gif

Anyway, let me know next time you're rolling through here. Hopefully we can take the 'Coug out on the road. And I'll save some homebrew for afterward.

paulie

 
 Respond to this message   

Marty Haynes
(Login fairlane_man)
Members

Deal! And the way your car sounds, you should be very proud!

August 11 2011, 6:48 AM 

Awesome, just awesome! Say Hi to the wife and give the kids a hug for me...or vice versa.

 
 Respond to this message   

Ross
(Login Bad427stang)
Members

Windage tray

August 10 2011, 6:13 PM 

Make sure the windage tray isn't blocking the drain slot from the main cap.

Every so often they will, which will put pressurized oil to the top end of the tray and in some cases, can even pressurize the main seal

[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, EFI, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.10 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 4 speed

 
 Respond to this message   
Paul Lovett
(Login Paul_Lovett)
Members

Now that's something I hadn't thought of.

August 11 2011, 3:30 AM 

I will look at that when I have the pan off. Thanks, Ross!

paulie

 
 Respond to this message   

XR7
(Login XR7)
Members

windage trays

August 11 2011, 6:53 PM 

I have a few Canton trays here, none have the relief in the rear that is needed. I used a plasma cutter and then file to cut out the last one I installed. I like the Fel-Pro black composite pan gasket, and use a little smear of my secret sealer on both sides of each gasket. No leaks on the last one I did.

Could be the side seals, or the cap parting line (use a little sealer there too), or the rear main seal also. One other area would be the rear galley plugs. I am sure you have looked at the rear china wall and the valve covers, sometimes oil will "walk" around and come down in the back.....

68 Cougar XR7 street and strip car, 428 4-speed, 3560# of fun, best 6.68@102.49 10.493@128.99 1.44 60 ft

 
 Respond to this message   
John
(Login Argess)
Members

I just went thought this and

August 10 2011, 6:33 PM 

I just went through this and having done it many times before the same way, I made a change and I like my final method:

First, I glue a gasket to each side of the windage tray with Permatex Aviation Sealant or Indian Head Shellac (same as mentioned earlier). I use 3 clothes-pegs between each of the 20 holes to hold the gaskets down and let it dry overnight.

At one time I just used more of the same sealant for the next step; installation. Coat each side of the windage pan with gaskets already glued down with the same sealant, but last time I tried The Right Stuff.

The good news is no leaks. Now for the bad news. The Right Stuff starts to set up quite quickly, and when working under the car it takes a fair amount of time to get the pan on. You have to work quickly.

I ran about a 1/8" bead along the center of the surface of the top gasket already glued to the windage tray and put it in place. Where the windage tray goes up against the rear main bearing cap, I ran the bead closer to the outer edge of the gasket. I also ran the bead in a complete circle around each bolt hole. For a temporary measure, I used two pan bolts to hold it on while I ran a bead around the pan lip back at the workbench.

I ran about a 1/8 bead along the center of the pan flange. I also ran the bead in a complete circle around each bolt hole on the pan. This was a fairly heavy winged pan (Aviad) so I held it in place using a scissor jack. It was difficult trying to be speedy getting the first two bolts in (diagonally apart), but then it went faster.

Just work at getting them all started a few turns until they are all started. Then start tightening them up.

I made them all very snug and didn't re-torque. So far, so good.

I have no doubt it will be a pain to remove with The Right Stuff, but it was last time when all I used was the Permatex. Basically the gasket tears itself apart leaving material on each surface. But once the parts are off, it's not terribly difficult to clean everything up. I'm not sure if cleaning off The Right Stuff will be much more difficult. Probably not.

 
 Respond to this message   

Howie
(Login ScotiaFE)
Members

Bent oil pan?

August 10 2011, 6:53 PM 

Been there!

Oil Pan Gasket. This is the best one I've seen.
Of course you need 2.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-OS11701D/



Evinrude 9.9 outboard 1969 Vintage
Stihl MS211 with optional Chrome Goalie Mask
427 Genesis

 
 Respond to this message   
Brent Lykins, B2 Motorsports
(Login blykins)
Members

I use two gaskets....

August 11 2011, 1:46 AM 

...not cork, but the rubber coated or "Felcoid" gaskets. I put a thin layer of RTV between each one.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
 Respond to this message   
Paul Lovett
(Login Paul_Lovett)
Members

Thanks guys! Lots of good tips.

August 11 2011, 3:29 AM 

I'll get the pan off this weekend and make sure it's straight. I'm not sure yet what I'll use for gaskets and sealer. I'll let y'all know how it ends up.

paulie

 
 Respond to this message   

Dr. Mabuse
(Login FE4RD)
Members

Use studs!!!...

August 11 2011, 6:12 AM 

...I use 2 cork gaskets, no sealant, and no leaks. Ford used to supply thinner than normal cork gaskets for the windage tray. I use studs to aid alignment (because I don't use glue/sealant), and locknuts. I don't use studs (use bolts) at the front timing cover, in case I need to remove it and leave the pan on.

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Paul Lovett
(Login Paul_Lovett)
Members

Oooo.....nice idea.

August 11 2011, 8:33 AM 

That's a lot of studs. I may do it anyway. Thanks for the idea!

paulie

 
 Respond to this message   
Dave Eames
(Login DEames)
Members

RTV is not your friend when used with a cork pan gasket (s).

August 11 2011, 8:40 AM 

My procedure is to "3M" one cork gasket to the block, "3M" the other to the windage tray, install dry, torgue to specs they seal just fine. Just a little RTV @ the front cover/block split and a little @ the rear main to block split is all you need. The RTV will not allow the cork to properly take a "set" and in some cases the identations in the pan surface will trap RTV and when torqued it will hydraulic/split the cork. RTV, or mechanic in tube is not your friend. Are you sure the leak is originating from the pan gasket?
-Dave

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index