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Another bad lifter... REALLY?!?!

July 8 2012 at 11:02 AM
  (Login qwertyd10n)
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Hey all,

Well, I finally managed to get around to swapping out the lifter that seemed to be bad last weekend. Due to the fact that the lifters are hydraulic rollers and must come out in pairs, this is a fair amount of work what with R&Ring the rocker system and intake.

I put about 40 miles on the truck over the course of a couple evenings this week and all seemed great! The 445 is running great and everything seemed just tickety-boo... until I pulled in on Thursday evening after a nice drive and I started pulling the air cleaner so I could make an idle adjustment. The truck was idling and all of a sudden I heard a distinct "click" and then it started ticking again... exact same sound as last time when I found one pushrod way out of adjustment - which led me to believe the lifter had compressed. Damn!

Although I didn't take pictures, the valve train geometry all looked fine and I adjusted all the rockers and all clearances seemed to be fine. I've got good oil pressure (35-40psi @ idle when hot), so everything should be getting the necessary lubrication. I seriously don't have 60 miles on the engine in the truck... but it was broken in on a dyno and should be ready to "drive it like I stole it". I put Mobil 1 15W50 oil in the engine when I changed out the breakin oil. I'm running COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters.

Help! I'm starting to get discouraged and would appreciate any advice on what to look for. If I need to provide any more details, just let me know.

Cheers,
Dion

 
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e. philpott
(Login pooreric)
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Re: Another bad lifter... REALLY?!?!

July 8 2012, 11:31 AM 

sounds like the rocker adjuster is wore out where it fits the pushrod , when they wear out they don't hold adjustment long

 
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(Login qwertyd10n)
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Re: Another bad lifter... REALLY?!?!

July 8 2012, 12:23 PM 

The rocker adjusters are all brand new... I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with them, but everything was brand new for this build. When I took it apart last weekend, all the lock nuts were tight. My rockers have balls and thus my pushrods have cups.

 
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(Login blykins)
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Have you tried running the valves again?

July 8 2012, 12:47 PM 

I wouldn't consider the glass half empty just yet. Parts "settle in" with each other and it's very common to have to readjust after a bit of running time.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
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e. philpott
(Login pooreric)
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Re: Have you tried running the valves again?

July 8 2012, 1:13 PM 

if all the parts are new then most likely Brent is right about re-adjusting them

 
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(Login torinothreeninety)
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wow, this is not good news...

July 8 2012, 12:21 PM 

you're scaring me now. the whole point of going roller is 'fit and forget'
can you post some pics? and are you sure there isn't an under-lying cause. seems very odd...
please tell us what you find.

Nick, UK.

'68 GT390 fastback. 445 stroker. all roller. 478/505. C6. 3.25 trac-loc.

 
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(Login qwertyd10n)
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Re: Another bad lifter... REALLY?!?!

July 8 2012, 2:27 PM 

Well, if something wasn't broken before, it sure as heck is now... I decided to move the truck over in the garage before tearing into it again and that may have been a mistake. I was being gentle with it, but it sounded like it threw a pushrod... which may have led to this:

[linked image]

[linked image]

The parts were super hot, so I haven't taken the rocker shafts apart yet... needless to say I'm going to need some new pieces at the very least! Maybe this PRW stuff isn't the best after all...

Cheers,
Dion


    
This message has been edited by qwertyd10n on Jul 8, 2012 10:35 PM


 
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(Login Bad427stang)
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Ugh

July 8 2012, 2:38 PM 

If not warranteed, I'd measure shaft size and see if you could put a set of Harland Sharps or Comps on your stands

[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 397 cid FE, headers, Street Dominator, 280H, 4 speed

 
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(Login Paul_Lovett)
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X2. Get rid of those chinese rocker arms.

July 8 2012, 3:37 PM 

I am sorry about your troubles. I've had good luck with the Harland Sharp rocker arms. I use them with the Dove stands and end supports. All American made stuff.

At least you found the issue before major damage was done.

JMO,

paulie

 
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(Login torinothreeninety)
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ouch!

July 8 2012, 3:07 PM 

the thickness of the material looks suspect surely? if you think about how the initial force of the push-rod is acting on that rocker, the place where it has failed is under a tremendous tensile load, just as the top piece, which is substatially thicker, is under a compressive force. to be so thin, and subject to such tensile forces, it doesn't surprise me to see a failure like that. compared a stock iron rocker, that design looks weak to me. they should warranty a failure like that. unless you have mega strong springs and a radical cam, that should not have happened IMO.

'68 GT390 fastback. 445 stroker. all roller. 478/505. C6. 3.25 trac-loc.

 
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(Login gaffney1951)
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Just as a side note ...

July 8 2012, 3:14 PM 

I talked to my machinist (Rob at Blue Oval) and he is suggesting (due to observed component failure) that even with roller cam that ZDDP should be used in any performance oriented build. Just when we thought it was safe to go back in the water. Mike

 
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Anonymous
(Login 391locker)
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Re: Another bad lifter... REALLY?!?!

July 8 2012, 7:10 PM 

I plan to use zinc filled oil on every engine I own that doesn't have a cat regardless of what lifter type it has.....the anti scuffing properties probably help beyond lifters.

I'm no expert but I can't believe a lack of zddp caused that engine failure.

 
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(Login qwertyd10n)
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Would you guys reuse the shafts, stands, and spacers?

July 8 2012, 10:34 PM 

Here is another shot of my broken rocker:

[linked image]

And one (as best I could get it) of the rocker shaft - I don't think it's in too bad of condition:

[linked image]

And here is a shot of the complete assembly unassembled:

[linked image]

So here are my questions for the experts amongst us...
- the shaft diameter is .84" according to my digital caliper. Harland Sharp's bronze bushed rockershttp://www.harlandsharp.com/fe_ford.htm) should fit these shafts. Does anyone know the width of the HS rocker bodies? These PRW units are 1" wide. If the HS rockers fit, would I be alright just getting a set of the rockers and reusing the PRW shafts, stands, and spacers?
- I don't think I really need to move up to the HS needle bearing unitshttp://www.harlandsharp.com/ford_nb.htm), do I? I'm running a Comp Cams custom grind hydraulic roller camshaft (dur. @.050 233/244, lift .577/.579, LSA 112) with stock Edelbrock Performer RPM cylinder heads - including the stock springs.
- how would a set of the T&Ds compare to the HS rockers on the rest of the PRW gear?

Cheers,
Dion


    
This message has been edited by qwertyd10n on Jul 8, 2012 10:48 PM
This message has been edited by qwertyd10n on Jul 8, 2012 10:35 PM


 
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Rod C
(Login MT63AFX)
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Yes, I had the HS bushed arms on my .780" TP chipped at 7,600. I have....................

July 9 2012, 6:42 AM 

...............the HS needle-bearing arms in a box. I would replace the arms with the HS, T&D are for the big boys with big wallets. It's cheaper to mill down the spacers to fit the HS (if needed) in my opinion, Rod. BTW, a good set of OE Ford adjustable arms with tight adjusters will handle 7,000rpm all day long, JMO.

Mickey Thompson's 63 1/2 #997 S/S Hi-Rise 427 Lgt/Wgt Galaxie,
1957 C-600 Cab-over carhauler w/390-4V, 2-speed rear-end
FGCofA member #4908
MCGC member #75

"There will ALWAYS be an FE in my LiFE"

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This message has been edited by MT63AFX on Jul 9, 2012 6:45 AM
This message has been edited by MT63AFX on Jul 9, 2012 6:44 AM
This message has been edited by MT63AFX on Jul 9, 2012 6:43 AM


 
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(Login pcode390)
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Harland Sharp Bushed Rocker Width

July 9 2012, 8:12 AM 

Hi Dion, this info is also in your email. My caliper is not digital but the HS rocker body with at the bushing (the widest point measures 1 7/64th's inch or 25.1mm ww

[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]

1965 Galaxie 500XL 445ci Stroker C-6
1965 Galaxie 500XL 390ci P-Code, 4-Speed
2001 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 5.4L
2006 John Deer X320 Garden Tractor

 
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(Login blykins)
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Check for contact....

July 9 2012, 7:43 AM 

...between the pushrod cup and the rocker arm body.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC







 
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