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cam selection

April 18 2017 at 9:59 AM
thomas11  (Login thomas11)
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I have a 65R code Galaxie 500XL that I am in process of collecting parts to build a 482 stroker, targeting 9.5 CR or so. It will be a mostly street vehicle. So far, I have a Dove tunnel wedge MR intake, with Edelbrock 6008 heads and T&D comp 7030 rockers. The heads have been manipulated to block off the oil passages to use pushrod oiling, with 2.19 and 1.73 valves. This setup was done by Wood brother / Wood & Sons (they were getting 800HP out of it but it wasn't enough). I'm looking at a solid roller cam that was cut by Oregon cams, with .576 lift, 252 duration @ 0.50, 109 lobe separation (grid 1354), with Comp solid rollers with extra oiling for rollers. This grind was recommended by Ken at Oregon when the original owner of the top end was planning his build. Before I buy the cam & lifters, I just want to know if this is too radical cam for street use, with the components I'm getting. Will this have adequate low end with 4speed transmission? Thanks for your comments.

Tom

 
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Brent Lykins
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With that duration, I would just go with a hydraulic roller.

April 18 2017, 10:11 AM 

You're going to lose duration to lash and at that point, you're going to be in the same power range as most of the hydraulic rollers that I run on my 482 engines.

The Comp solid roller lifters are mediocre at best and with that combination, there's more risk than reward.

To answer your question, no it's not going to be radical at all.

 
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thomas11
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hydraulic

April 18 2017, 11:59 AM 

Thanks Brent,

Do you have a cam selection then for this? Which lifters do you prefer?

Thanks again,
Tom

 
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Brent Lykins
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I have a custom Comp hydraulic roller that I like to use for similar combos...

April 18 2017, 12:17 PM 

I also use Morel's hydraulic roller lifters.

You can still oil through the pushrods and use the T&D race rockers. Obviously, you'll need a little less valve spring.

 
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Gary
(Login c6rod)
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Max HP

April 18 2017, 12:43 PM 

I'm new to FE's and have a 462 stroker with 10:1, stage 1 Edelbrock heads and everything else you mentioned except the big 252/109 cam. Have had mine (built by Survival) dynoed and find it astonishing that Woods & Sons have achieved 800HP from the described engine. The engine is only 20 cubes larger and has a bigger cam than mine (240/112/.575/.612 hyd roller) but mine is only dynoing at about 550HP at 6000RPM. Can a cam make that much difference??

 
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Jason
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I don't think so

April 18 2017, 1:41 PM 

Certainly not the cam alone. More compression ratio....and nitrous oxide would do it happy.gif

 
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Barry_R
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Has to be a LOT more going on

April 18 2017, 2:59 PM 

A 482 with 9.5:1 and a 252@.050 cam is not going to make 800HP unless the heads are something pretty much incredible and there is a ton of other work hiding in the background.
Barry Rabotnick
Survivalmotorsports.com

 
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Brent Lykins
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Like a 4-cylinder sitting under the intake manifold...n/m

April 18 2017, 3:09 PM 


 
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MeanGene
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Only on FTE and Facebook lol...

April 18 2017, 3:38 PM 

[linked image][linked image]

 
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Ross
(Login Bad427stang)
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I think he meant he has a good set of heads

April 18 2017, 4:09 PM 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he plans 800 hp from his set up, but he has a set of takeoff heads from a race motor (which likely had a LOT more compression, cam and RPM) that made 800 hp

My opinion, I think your cam choice will be pretty rowdy and is likely too much cam for 9.5:1 compression. Not undrivable rowdy, but it's got tight centers and big lobes that are better suited for more compression IMHO if you choose to run it

FWIW, my 489 is at 10.7:1 and runs a lot less cam, it's pump gas friendly and is a blast on the street. I am not trying to talk you into less cam, but if you go with a cam around the specs you are talking about, you'll need more compression and even doing so, it'll still be street friendly
[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 445 cid FE, headers, RPM intake, 1000 HP series Holley, 4 speed


    
This message has been edited by Bad427stang on Apr 18, 2017 4:10 PM


 
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Greg W
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+1 Ross

April 18 2017, 5:46 PM 

Pretty sure he is talking about where they came from.

 
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thomas11
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cam

April 18 2017, 6:19 PM 

I was just interested to know about the cam that the previous owner of the setup was going to use, and was offering to me. No, I don't have plans for 800HP, that is what Wood Bros was getting with whatever setup they had using these parts. The heads have 850lb springs in them, which I'll need to replace. I will target a hydraulic roller, with better lifters. I'm not sure about what specs to pursue, but I will target 9.5 CR so it is streetable on pump gas.

Tom

 
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Tom P
(Login tomposthuma)
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compression

April 18 2017, 6:59 PM 

I think 9 1/2 is too low and just cost power without need. If you run a flattop or shallow dish and decent cam you should be able to get away with more compression.

I think it's the bog block Chevy guys that set that low a limit since they need huge domes to make 10 to 1.

 
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MeanGene
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Spring specs

April 18 2017, 8:57 PM 

Do you know what the existing springs are, and amount of use? Probably have something on the shelf you could use with a milder cam, and might be able to use your hefty ones
[linked image][linked image]

 
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Ross
(Login Bad427stang)
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Thomas, just to reiterate

April 18 2017, 11:56 PM 

The black Mustang in my signature is 10.7:1 and runs on ANY fuel I put in it. My 445 F100 is 10:1 and runs on pump gas. You don't need to go to 9.5:1, you are giving up power and torque, and more so if you go bigger cam (mine is in the 240s @.050 in the 489 and 236 @ .050 in the truck).

Being pump gas friendly relies on many more things other than static compression: Cam design, ignition curve, quench, chamber shape, engine temp, mixture.

Build it the way you want, but lots of us running in the mid to upper 10s static compression with mid grade right out of the pump, and FWIW, mine has been happy since 2007 and is nothing but street
[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 445 cid FE, headers, RPM intake, 1000 HP series Holley, 4 speed

 
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Brent Lykins
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If you are starting a new build....

April 19 2017, 3:20 AM 

...you can go higher on the compression ratio and still run pump gas easily. I normally aim for around 10-10.5:1 for customer builds unless an aspect of that engine's purpose dictates something a little lower.

As Ross showed, with careful measurement and assembly, you can go higher and not have any issues.

 
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thomas11
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build

April 19 2017, 3:39 AM 

Thanks for the feedback. I had a conversation with Kurt Neighbor, he was telling me not to go over 9.5:1 compression. I haven't done any research on what cam to use as of yet. My block will need the oil feeds drilled for the T&D rocker through the pushrods, and I called him to confirm he could do that machine work. He talked about a few items, including filling the bottom of the block with cement, which I found to be surprising. Even for a street car.

I will be asking about how to set this all up correctly when I get ready. My wallet is a bit light after obtaining the top end components, but would like a plan for cam & bottom end selection. I know it will be hydraulic roller cam, and was thinking of Scat stroker kit. Block is already 4.25 bore.

I'm sure I wont need the 850lb springs on the heads. I don't know how much use they've had, I've been told not all that much but that isn't very definitive. Would be willing to trade for correct springs for whatever setup is decided.

Thanks again,
Tom

 
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Brent Lykins
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I don't want to get into the spot....

April 19 2017, 4:24 AM 

....where you have 5-6 guys trying to tell you what to do, so if you're working with an engine builder, I would sit down with him and voice your concerns. I would ask why the 9.5 limit and why the need for block filler. Keep in mind that if you fill the block, you will need to run an oil cooler on the street.

 
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Ross
(Login Bad427stang)
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Same as Brent

April 19 2017, 12:47 PM 

Too many cooks in the kitchen, stick with Kurt if he's building a combo, there are many ways to skin a cat

However, I tend to pick compression after, or at least during selection of the other components. To just say "street=9.5" is real odd to me without knowing cam, intake, car use, etc, and I also agree that the filled block is likely not required.

Sounds like he may be going very mild and wants to make sure compression is low enough, and even with that, for some reason thinks you have a weak block, but that's all speculation
[linked image]
---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 445 cid FE, headers, RPM intake, 1000 HP series Holley, 4 speed

 
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MeanGene
(Login 2many427s)
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Maybe some expensive overkill?

April 19 2017, 5:17 AM 

It seems like you are spending a lot of money to get to a full race rocker system, seemingly having to drill a solid lifter block for oiling, when your intention is to use a milder/ street hydraulic roller, which would seem to only require a set of any of the "good" rockers. I had hoped to avoid cutting the heads and drilling the block for race T&Ds, by using the Dove HD setup, as I have a couple sets (one new), but I have been advised by the Super Stock guru crowd that while that setup is pretty much bulletproof up to about a .700 lift SR, above that level I should go to the race T&Ds at around .800 lift to be safe. As I also have a couple other sets of heads that are already cut, I don't have much choice but to spend the bux- so bye-bye Dove HDs...
[linked image][linked image]

 
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