What did Barry pull at EM 2017? TQ, HP, Score?October 5 2017 at 4:31 AM
|Bill Ballinger (Login 65billgal)|
I sounds like a neat buildable combination, but I dont do Facebook, but I would just love to know how he did.
results are getting harder to find every year
|October 5 2017, 9:47 AM |
I haven't heard much about this years contest, in previous years I was able to watch it on a live feed with several stories posted every day.
I have Facebook but rarely use it and bogs my computer so badly I can't scroll the page down. When I tried there was Barry's engine on the dyno, no sound, looked like 53ohp flashed on the screen as the revs topped and the pull ended.
Someone said Kasse's MEL made 763hp !
Re: results are getting harder to find every year
|October 5 2017, 11:08 AM |
Kaase's engine did make 763 hp. I forget exactly what the peak torque was, something like 700? Even those numbers are deceptive though, because the torque number never budged from the start of the pull at 3500 until it began to drop at about 6000 rpm!! It had a 460 crank in it, the heads were slightly offset with offset threaded inserts in the block deck using 7/16 head studs to clear the head bolt holes. The "chambers" were made of solid bronze, a chunk that he bought off of Amazon. He said the sunken chamber idea came from a prototype factory Windsor head that he saw over 40 years ago, while working for Dyno Don. It used a T&D FE rocker system that he made his own stands for.
I posted some pictures of Kaase's engine on Jay's site. Check them out. He never ceases to amaze me with his vision and abstract thinking! Can't raise the port roof? No problem, just raise the head. Can't use deck plates and raise the chamber? No problem, just sink the chamber into a 1 1/2" head "gasket". Kaase teaches you that it's not what the rules say, it's what they DON'T say!
Rumor has it that this was probably going to be the last year for the EMC. Apparently Hot Rod sold the company or rights to it (something like that) to a well known TV channel network, so that's probably why info was so scarce this year. That's a real bummer. Apparently this network was trying to figure out a way to make it a "reality TV" show, but that it was not working out. Wouldn't matter if it did, it would ruin the whole event.
Re: results are getting harder to find every year
|October 5 2017, 2:39 PM |
He is a clever man and always innovating. I will check those pix.
I would hazard to guess, but as long a Fords keep winning the competition.............
|October 5 2017, 5:08 PM |
I think this "challenge" didn't go at all the way Hot Rod magazine intended it to go.
Know you all know I really don't care for anything made by gm, and sometimes my rants can go a little too far, but we all know that in any automotive competition between a Ford, and something made by gm, gm will heavily be biased against the Fords especially if the Fords start to win.
IE, restrictor plates for NASCAR [back when there actually were different makes of race cars], bore spacing restrictions in NHRA [eliminating a Boss 429 based engine], and more recently when the Ford mod engines dominated/won the small block category vs the UNBEATABLE ls engines, the rules were changed to exclude the mod engines into a class by themselves, keeping them from competing against the ls.
So far Ford has exceeded expectations of what HR thought a Ford engine can do, and not what Hot Rod was hoping to prove, and that is how all gm motors are the BEST BAR NONE ENGINES vs everybody else.
In saying that, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that is the reason [I don't expect HR to openly admit it] for the end of the EMC.
OK, tinfoil hat off.
|October 5 2017, 5:46 PM |
Just got back in.
The 390 stroker did just fine.
Looking through the nine pulls I made in my 35 minute session, the peak horsepower number was actually in one that I chose not to use in scoring - it made 553.7 HP at 6300 RPM. The peak torque was recorded on a different pull where it printed a 526.7 lb number at 4400.
As a quick summary, this engine is nearly a crate package. Flat top 447 with a .040 bore and a 4.250 stroke. Heads are Survival CNC with a 2.200 valve. Intake is a Performer RPM. Carb is a 20 year old 850 vacuum secondary Holley. Distributor is Ford, Oil pan is Ford C8AX, exhaust is Rod C's 427 cast iron, valve covers, water pump are Ford. Wires are 7mm repops. Cam is a genuine Comp 294S flat tappet with 248@.050 and .605 published lift on both sides (not my first choice...). Zero trick parts. Zero chrome. It made more torque and a higher score with headers and a Quick Fuel carb, but it still would not have won, and nobody would have noticed it. The OEM sleeper look got lots of attention.
On my dyno at home the best numbers I have on the sheets I brought with me were 542.8 HP @ 6300, and 529.4 lbs at 4400. I seem to remember a 554 HP pull but don't have that sheet with me right now. But considering how close these numbers are I would say my dyno is pretty dang close to the ones at the school. That's as close to "proof" as I can provide regarding accuracy of my dyno & test data.
My pulls were all glass smooth at the challenge. I only heard one engine that displayed a "stair step" sound during its runs. Kaase thought it might have been tuning related, while another competitor thought it might be related to the inertia factor - a dyno setup function that was not used (set to "1")during the challenge. In any case it did not affect the standings. Much better than last year, where we worked through some software challenges.
On the business side of things, the parent company of Hot Rod (TEN) has been acquired by the Discovery group (cable TV folks). Coming into the contest, there was a good deal of uncertainty about it's future. The new owners of Hot Rod not knowing where the Challenge fits into the scheme of things, along with some tension between the host school and Hot Rod, seemed to be the source of the problems. Two key sponsors - Amsoil and the new owners of SuperFlow have both committed to the future. The video coverage on Facebook was excellent this year with 30 minutes or more dedicated to each entry, and I think the response far outran any expectations. The short clip of a school student lifting the head off of Kaase's insane MEL was approaching a half million views within a couple days. I am hopeful that the combination of sponsor support and demonstrated reader interest will help keep this event going forward.
Great work!, I hope it goes on too, and Motor Trend on Demand on the Ten
|October 5 2017, 6:01 PM |
continues with Frei, Fin, Brule, Dulcich, Tony and Lucky. They have the best shows on Amazon Prime.
Thanks Barry thats a great crate package
|October 5 2017, 6:48 PM |
x2 on the old school iron look.
Your build confirms a real-world option for the 390 street crowd.
Of course it wouldn't run QUITE as good with little 390gt exhaust iron, but the point is made!
Dyno issue wasn't tuning related...
|October 5 2017, 9:19 PM |
I listened to and watched 8 engines run over 2 days, and at least half of them jumped in increments. Very precise, very obvious increments. The same thing was happening last year when they switched to the new Superflow dynos, on TOP of the software issues they were having. When was the last time anyone heard an engine jump in precise increments due to tuning? When you're at WOT, engines just don't do that, even with a bad tune. Royce's engine ran 2 different intakes, one EFI, one with a carb. He changed AF ratios on the EFI runs (the AF numbers were dead flat on those runs), even played with the timing (more changes than anyone made during the event), and every run made those jumps.
I agree it probably didn't affect the standings, but it was not tuning related.
|This message has been edited by cjshaker on Oct 5, 2017 9:22 PM|
I wish that I could afford to buy it or a crate engine like it
|October 6 2017, 4:58 AM |
It is perfectly what I want, with the 294S and old style solids, painted up to look stock, widen the port pinches and redrill the pushrod holes and have a Holley SD on it with Crites like I have now. I can't build another engine and I can't afford to buy one, but it is so cool that you have this old school stock loking engine, it would be my dream with the Survival or BBMs and just the livery from my 394, painted black with a deep sump and my single plane with its inner secrets my Mercury pent roofs and my 3310 750 Holley. That would be so perfectly balanced and be a good 6200-6500 engine.
554 peak HP n/m
|October 5 2017, 1:24 PM |
|This message has been edited by wsu0702 on Oct 5, 2017 10:30 PM|
He's got good heads to make that kind of hp with that cam.
|October 6 2017, 7:54 AM |
Not knocking the cam, but it's pretty mellow grind. That would make a great, reliable crate engine, in my opinion.
I put on in a 10.5:1 466 with D0VE heads 2.19 intakes and 1.65 exhausts
|October 6 2017, 2:07 PM |
a Stealth dual plane and 830 Holley, (850 baseplate and 750 main body vacuum secondary) He had a C6 and 3.50 gears and he could run the 1/8th to calculate to 570 hp, and it had ungodly torque. I put it in there to keep it from pinging and it did well, no ping and he went through three sets of 275 60-15's in a year on the street
Man I wish I had to money to buy Barry's engine outright just as it is! It is exactly what I'd like to have, 4.09 bores and 4.25 stroke with that cam and those good heads. My wife already said no, no second mortgage.. LOL