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How much motor do you need to effectively use a Tunnel Wedge?

December 3 2017 at 12:20 AM
paulie  (Login Paul_Lovett)
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I don't think an rpm or cam duration will tell you unless you know the displacement. For instance, maybe a 505 inch FE going to 5700 works good with a T-Wedge, or maybe a 427 running to 6800 works well.

I'm thinking a horsepower range would be more useful. You also need heads that compliment the intake.

Since an Edelbrock RPM can be effective up to 600 hp or so, where does the T-Wedge fit in?

I have a ported Dove Tunnel Wedge and am thinking about using it on a 470 inch street engine with ported Ebok heads and probably a small solid roller cam (245-255 degrees), and maybe 550 hp. Maybe 6200-6500 max rpm. Fairly light street car (3400 lb) with moderate to high gearing (3.15-3.33) and mild torque converter (2400-2600 rpm). Bad idea? Normally I would say yes, but maybe not with the bigger displacement.

Are other intakes a better match? Ebok RPM? Ported Holley Street Dominator? I have a ported BT 1x4bbl.

I do have Jay's Intake book and am going to look at again.

Any opinions?

thanks,

paulie


    
This message has been edited by Paul_Lovett on Dec 3, 2017 12:23 AM


 
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6667fan
(Login 6667fan)
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More engine than I have Paulie but I put one on anyways!

December 3 2017, 6:29 AM 

Just because they look so tough. With my hydro roller the peak is 6000-6100. I had the intake and the Edelbrocks ported/ flowed by Les Schmader, (sic). The top end is under utilized for what is underneath it. However the decision was reached to stand down from a solid roller for this build. Perhaps the next go ‘round. Good conversation starter. JB
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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How does it run? What is it in?

December 3 2017, 6:34 AM 

It looks gorgeous!

paulie

 
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Ross
(Login Bad427stang)
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I'd run it in a heartbeat

December 3 2017, 6:36 AM 

You'll likely have plenty of vacuum and torque won't be an issue with the big inch engine and reasonable cam.

Every time I have run a single plane on an FE I have been happier than the same engine with a dual plane. This includes mild 390s through my 489 which is relatively similar to the build you are describing and on that one, my ported Victor was better everywhere than the ported RPM. I am not sure how they ported yours, but unless they ruined it by bad porting, I would expect that it will be a significant improvement over any single carb intake and certainly out power an RPM on a 470 inch motor.

Jay's book should give you an example that gets you close, but I'd say you will be just fine
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---------------------------------
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 445 cid FE, headers, RPM intake, 1000 HP series Holley, 4 speed


    
This message has been edited by Bad427stang on Dec 3, 2017 6:37 AM


 
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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Thanks. The Dove T-Wedge was ported well, I think.

December 3 2017, 6:43 AM 

All runners flow 470-475 cfm. The ports are opened up to Medium Riser size or so.

I'm hoping to get 320 cfm out of my heads, which seems weird considering what the intake flows. Still, when an intake or cylinder head is flowed it is not replicating what is happening in a running engine. I think that is especially true of intake manifolds. So the numbers can be misleading in a way.

paulie

 
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Blair Patrick
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Tunnel wedge vs. 2x4 MR vs. RPM......

December 3 2017, 6:44 AM 

A couple of years ago, I had three engines on the dyno back to back to back. Two 482s and one 464 inch in a 428 block. One 482 had a 2x4 MR, the other had a Ford tunnel wedge. Both .600 lift hyd rollers 248/254 on a 112. The 464 had a 232/238 on a 112. All are custom cams that I use regularly. I put short travel lifters in the Tunnel Wedge engine so it could handle more rpm past peak. In testing the three engines, the 2x4 MR 482 cought up with the single four RPM at 3900 rpm, and steadily pulled away. Both peaked at about the same place, 57-5800, with the bigger engine and 2x4 being about 40 HP better. In comparing the two otherwise identical 482s, the TW caught up with the 2x4 MR at 5300 rpm, and steadily pulled away to peak 20 HP higher, which was only a couple of hundred more rpm for the TW with the same camshaft. I could see that the TW would have been killing the dual plane by 6500 by the trend that was forming. I came away from those three days thinking a lot more of the ED RPM. It outperforms both bigger engines from 2000 to 3900. It outperformed the TW to about 4500. Overall, on those engines, the RPM had much better bottom end, the Ford dual plane MR was better in the middle, and the Tunnel Wedge was better than the RPM from 4500 up, and better than the MR from 5300 up. It just depends on how you want to use it, and how hard you and your camshaft want to turn it. I usually reserve the Tunnel Wedge for big hydraulic rollers with short travel lifters, or solid rollers planned for rpm. I think a big solid flat tappet in a big engine can still benefit from a Tunnel Wedge, but a darn MR 2x4 or an RPM single are HARD to beat below 5K, which is where Street stuff spends the most time.
Blair Patrick

 
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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Thanks. Good info.

December 3 2017, 6:58 AM 

The 2x4 MR intake, Ford or Blue Thunder, seems like a winner. Such a broad power range. I'd have to find one of those, though. It doesn't sound like the Tunnel Wedge would be a bad choice for me, but maybe not optimal.

paulie

 
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6667fan
(Login 6667fan)
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Blair, that is likely just the sort of info the OP is looking for.

December 3 2017, 7:22 AM 

Thanks for that.
Paulie, my 483 is in a ‘67 Fairlane. Has not been track tested, yet. I have managed to scare myself on a divided highway when I had the car a little sideways in third at about 60 mph. I don’t know what the runners are capable of but the heads went 320/240@.700
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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Blair, can you tell me the approximate peak hp of these three engines?

December 3 2017, 9:19 AM 

thanks,

paulie


    
This message has been edited by Paul_Lovett on Dec 3, 2017 9:19 AM


 
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Blair Patrick
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Yessir.....

December 3 2017, 10:04 AM 

For the sake of round numbers....670-650-610....TW, 2x4, RPM, respectively. All were 11:1, with BBM heads with my hand porting. All three pairs of heads were prepped identically. Both dual carb intakes started taking "nibbles" against the RPM intake as they went through the range. What those peak numbers don't tell you is that below 4000 rpm, the dual plane 2x4 killed the TW, and the ED RPM killed both. I have since tried the RPM with the bigger cam, and it didn't show me much difference. I think, as a larger displacement engine becomes "cylinder head limited", a big cam only removes torque and won't do much for peak power, especially if it is a long stroker. The more data I collect on different engines with the same heads, it is evident that the bore/stroke relationship has more effect on things than just having more or less inches. How you arrive at those " inches" makes a difference. Combo is everything.

Back before the stroker world came along, we could see the difference in rpm ranges between 3.78 and 3.98 strokes in the Stock and Super Stock stuff. When head cross-section is close, the 3.98 always makes more torque a few hundred rpm sooner, and the 3.78 always makes it's peak power 2-300 after the 3.98. I once built a 3.78 stroke engine that made a little over 900 ho at 8000 rpm, and then did an identical top-end on a 4.400 stroke that made the same power, but at 6600 rpm. Needless to say, the big engine had a boat load more torque. I may be rambling now, so I'll shut up. Not sure how I got off track talking about stroke....oh yeah......point being.....combo is everything.
Blair Patrick

 
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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Thank you very much!

December 3 2017, 10:18 AM 

Going off to digest this now.......

paulie

 
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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This combo would be about 4.27" bore by 4.12" stroke.

December 4 2017, 4:32 AM 

My heads are nothing amazing so your thoughts may be pertinent. Gives me more to think about.

thanks,

paulie

 
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Blair Patrick
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It would be fun.....

December 3 2017, 10:12 AM 

To put a Tunnel Wedge on a 3.500 or 3.78 stroke engine, with a big solid roller, and see where it wanted to run. I think a 400 inch FE, cammed appropriately, with a supporting set of heads, would peak WAAYY up there....probably not a good streeter, but fun I'd bet.
Blair Patrick

 
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DaleP
(Login Posi-67)
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Thought about that too... My Dove heads

December 3 2017, 10:31 AM 

are a bit better number wise than the Ed's but I probably don't have enough Cam in the 390 to make the deal work. Having a Dyno and lots of gaskets would be nice.

 
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MeanGene
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396 pistons

December 4 2017, 1:18 PM 

I just happen to have a NIB set of NASCAR- type 396 Arias custom pistons, 3.5 stroke, "MAX" compression trim to fit domes, if you want tp play. Still need some rockers etc so always things to trade
[linked image][linked image]

 
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Gary Blair
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Blair have any numbers for a Victor W/ Dommy carb? n/m

December 3 2017, 10:25 PM 


 
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Kevin Rolph
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Re: How much motor do you need to effectively use a Tunnel Wedge?

December 3 2017, 8:38 AM 

One thing to note on any discussion of Tunnel Wedge intakes is that the Dove Tunnel wedge is not an exact copy of the Ford Tunnel Wedge, although they look similar. Jay made note of a couple differences in his book. Also if you have the book, note too the measured volume size compared to the original.

 
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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Dove is 4125cc and the Ford is 4000cc according to TGFIC.

December 4 2017, 5:01 AM 

The shape at the rear of the plenum where the ports diverge is different, as well.

paulie

 
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Tommy-T
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I ran one for a while...

December 3 2017, 9:18 AM 

...on my Mustang. The motor was a 454 incher with ported Edelbrock heads, domed L2298 pistons, and a 308R cam. I was running 3310 Holleys.
My car is a little lighter than yours, but it drove fine on the street and ran right at 11 flat shifting at 6500rpm. I'm sure there was more in the combo, but good enough for a street cruiser.

Eventually my friend wanted his manifold back and I put my tried and true Port-O-Sonic back on. The car ran about the same.

 
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paulie
(Login Paul_Lovett)
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Interesting that the two manifolds ran about the same.

December 4 2017, 4:22 AM 

Was your Port-O-Sonic ported?

thanks,

paulie

 
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