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2017 PSMCD Pure Stock Drags: More variety, fewer Fords, one FE

December 5 2017 at 10:13 PM

WerbyFord  (Login werbyford)
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About a week ago I commented here on the 2017 PSD / PSMCD and then compiled a few details on the 2016 results.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1511934554/1/2016-2017+Pure+Stock+Drags+-+where+are+the+Fords-

Sure enough, a few days later the 2017 results appeared on the PSMCDR website.

So I did my thing with number crunching again; similar story for 2017. I’m keeping the format of this post about the same as the 2016 results for comparison.

In this analysis, I added my own “Muscle Car Shootout” rules, which is to say, you have to have a back seat and over 1000 of a given engine built. This rules out the Vettes, the ZL1, the MaxWedge, the 421-SD, and the Studebaker-304/335hp-R3 (there were about 2000 Stude 289/289hp-R2 cars made so these do count, as do the F-code Tbirds.)

Not counted in my 2017 analysis:
4 Corvette (2-seater)
2 AMX (2-seater)
1 El Camino (2-seater)
2 ZL-1
1 MaxWedge
1 421 Super Duty
2 Stude R3/R4
1 428CJ Mustang (not running right this year, doggone it)

2017 Entries I did count: (/=gross hp, n=net hp as rated)

Chevy (the 30-over 402 is still called the 396 as Chevy did)
2=454/450 LS6
1=454n270 LS5
1=427/385 L36
1=409/425 L80
11=396/375 L78 most popular combo was the L78
3=396/350 L34
1=396/325 L35
3=350/360 LT1
1=327/350 L79
1=327/300 L48
1=302n290 Z28
2=164/140-4v corvair flat 6
I spent part of a day looking into that amazing Corvair flat-6 and building a gonkulator model.
So many variants, so little data. It’s a start anyway.
Good stuff here:
https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/docs/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits/Corvair/1965-Chevrolet-Corvair.pdf

Just edit the year and you will find a LOT of Corvair info. Does Ford have such a site? (I mean, other than Dennis….)

Ford
3=429n375 SCJ
1=429n370 CJ
1=428n335 CJ
1=351/300 Cleveland
“Th Th Th That’s all, folks”

Mopar
5=426/425 Hemi
3=440390 6-pack
3=440/375 Magnum
3=340n275
1=340n240

Buick
4=455/360-Stage1
3=455/345-Stage1
1=455n270-Stage1
1=350/260-4v
1=350n190-4v
All the Buicks were automatics. Also all were 1970 or NEWER. BOP (and AMC) really came to life in the early-1970s just as Chev and Ford were bailing out.

Olds
3=455/380h/o
1=455/370w30
1=455n270-L77
1=455/365-L25
2=350/310
All the Olds were also automatic cars.

Pontiac
4-455n290 SD
2-455n300 HO
2-455-base4v
5-400ra4
4-400ra3
5-400ra1
2-400-base4v
1-389ra6v
1-389ho6v
1-389-6v
Compared to Chevy, Ford, Mopar, Pontiac had far less engine to work with. In spite of that, Pontiac put together a series of excellent street packages, obviously not keyed toward NASCAR or NHRA or even the do-it-yourself builder, but for the tune-it and shut-the-hood crowd. The enthusiasm is inexplicable, kind of like the aura the Mustang has kept over the years compared to lesser (but sometimes faster) pony cars.

AMC
(I have always considered AMC to be Nash-Hudson-Studebaker-Packard, which is what would have happened if not for the fatal egos of certain corporate CEO’s. So instead we lost all 4 makes.)
2-390/315
3-360-285
3-289/289r2sc
1-289/225r1
1-259/185


I computed the Average MPH of all the entries from each make, and ranked them accordingly. Ford doesn’t do too badly actually, about mid-pack as you can see.

I also computed the “Percent Improved” – that is, how much Gross Horsepower would I estimate each car made, based on MPH and car weight and a “typical” driveline, compared to the Gross Horsepower from the factory (from the Gonkulator, not the silly ratings!!!) This is a sort of “enthusiasm” metric. Surprisingly, the “Most Improved” engines are not Chevy or Mopar, but Buick, then Pontiac, then AMC. Underdogs maybe, plus the usual Pontiac enthusiasm. Ford was again about mid-pack although the %Improved dropped off due to the absence of Steve's 428cj car.

Finally I counted the number of cars entered.
30 from Pontiac (plus 2)
26 from Chevy (plus 7 special cars)
15 from Mopar (plus 1)
14 AMC&Stude (plus 4)
10 Buick
8 Olds
6 FoMoCo
Only Pontiac had more cars in 2017 than 2016 and they also took over the top participation spot.

Similar trends in 2017 results as in 2016 regarding %Improved (inferred gross HP from MPH, compared to Gonkulated Factory gross HP):

Av.MPH….------.Rank----…%Improved….----.#Cars….----.Engine
116.1------------1-----------111%----------5--------426hemi
106.1------------2-----------106%---------20--------Chev.Rat
104.5------------3-----------113%---------28--------Pontiac
103.8------------4-----------110%---------10--------Mopar.Wedge
102.4------------5-----------108%----------6---------Chev.Mouse
102.3------------6-----------120%---------10---------Buick
102.3------------7-----------108%----------6---------FoMoCo
098.6------------8-----------116%---------14---------AMC&Stude
098.3------------9-----------111%----------8---------Olds

One Fun Fact this year was that the Top %Improved (vs. factory) was of all things a 350 Buick !!!
Overall, the %Improved numbers went down this year – either less preparation or more scrutiny. Maybe Chevy and Ford are seeing more scrutiny, whereas the more obscure makes are given a pass due to the fundamental hardships of building one?
The Hemi dominates the MPH (and ET) rankings, but I still take issue with it qualifying due to the WARRANTY.


And now, for something completely different:
The WARRANTY:
I did pursue the prompt Royce gave in the post below, assessing which of my old rides would qualify for PSMCD:

“For 1955 to 1975 musclecars built in United States and Canadian assembly plants with a minimum warranty of 12 months and 12,000 miles. Factory lightweight cars built for sanctioned drag racing and dealership-built/modified cars are not eligible to participate. Cars must be factory equipped with a minimum of four-barrel carburetion, dual exhaust, and other factory-installed equipment that promotes a high-performance intent and image. Cars are paired up based on time trial e.t.s and compete in a best-of-three heads-up shootout. “

I compared these to my own 289/210 Mustang which is about the only one I have that might qualify:
• Factory Dual Exhaust=OK (option on my car)
• Minimum 12-month 12,000 mile (12m12k) factory warranty=OK
• 4-barrel=OK
• 1955-1975=OK
• High-Performance Intent and Image=OK, horse on the grill and 289 emblems?? Chrome floor shifter?
Those rules got me thinking about warranties.
3m4000mi (or 3m1200mi?) 426 Hemi
3m4000mi 289HiPo
3m4000mi (or was it 0m0mi?) 427 Fairlane
Likely small or no warranty 426 Max Wedge, 421 Super Duty
How are these cars running in PSD with basically no factory warranty?
As usual, the Hemi finished on top again this year, but if I disqualify the Hemi for lack of factory warranty it sure changes the result. Now, an L78 and a RamAir-1 are duking it out for low ET. Steve’s 428CJ Mustang (based on its 2016 ET) would be in the Top 5 if not the Top 3, scrapping it out with 6-pack, LT1, RamAir4, and W30 cars. Somehow this sounds a lot more interesting.

I’m not hating on the Hemi, same applies to the 421sd, 426 Max Wedge, 289HiPo or any other car with effectively no factory warranty- they just don’t meet the PSD rules, so why are they allowed to run?
Does anybody know the deal here?

 
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Anonymous
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Re: 2017 PSMCD Pure Stock Drags: More variety, fewer Fords, one FE

December 6 2017, 6:34 AM 

They let the cat out of the bag years ago on the rules .Allowing 1.5 points more compression than the cars originally came with .Gearing they never came with and other things . One of the hemi's has an engine that has had unlimited founds spent on it as well as the one firebird .I know they had over 70K spent on the hemi owner has unlimited funds spent on his cars even tried several different exhaust systems at track rentals.
I had less than $2500 in my CJ when it ran 12.01 at 113.75 .It is not a max effort engine . Flat tops ( 2 new 6 used from another engine) tbird block and crank I got for $175,set of aftermarket steel rods , zero deck ,heads milled to minimums,good (BES figured )stock lift cam ,stock 735 holley with two sizes smaller than stock primary jets with stock rears ,dura spark dist,NAPA ign box and wiring from John V. Good mandrel bent 2 1/2 inch x pipe exhaust .4.11 gears shifting at 6200 rpm . Car is heater delete ,radio delete ,no p/s or power brakes . I would bet the cars faster than mine have had 5 to 10 times and some much more money spent on their engines than mine .
69 R code Mustang coupe 68 1/2 R code Mustang coupe 70 ram air Drag Pack Cougar 67 505 F.A.S.T legal Fairlane [linked image][linked image][linked image][linked image]

 
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WerbyFord
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Claimer Engines?

December 6 2017, 7:09 AM 

I don't mean $2000 like junkyard circle track, but say $20,000 or something - for the ENGINE of course not the car.
Only if it's found to be "non-stock" so this would protect people's numbers-matching stockers etc.

Hey, if somebody wanted to claim ANY engine I've got for $20,000 they could have it. Except maybe the Model A.

It's one reason we never restored our "A" aiming for a National Winner. It takes megabucks and then mega-politics. Easier to just enjoy it as a 2nd or 3rd place car year after year.

 
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427Kevin
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Exceptional Report

December 6 2017, 6:39 AM 

Thanks for all of your efforts!

 
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Royce
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I guess that means my car doesn't qualify!

December 6 2017, 6:56 AM 

With only 357 Cougar GT-E's built with the 427 it is less than 1000 even thought it had full 24 month / 24000 miles factory warranty when new.

Same goes for my 428CJ Cougar, only 240 something built in 1968.
[linked image]
1910 Model T Ford touring Red / Black
1914 Model T Ford touring Maroon / Black
1917 Model T Ford Torpedo runabout green
1915 Model T Ford touring Black of course!
1968 Mercury Cougar 428CJ Ram Air Red / Black/ Black
1968 Cougar XR7-G 390-2V X code Red / Black
1968 Cougar GTE 427 Augusta Green / Saddle
http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/15029/50071-2

 
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WerbyFord
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The 1000 was mine, arbitrary. PSMCD was the warranty thing. EDIT on 1000

December 6 2017, 7:04 AM 

Royce,
I just used a 1000 cutoff in the big "Muscle Car Shootout" with the Gonkulator to try to represent cars you could hope to buy.
(I never saw a 427 Cougar back in the day, though I did see plenty of transplant 427 Mustangs...)

I ignore the RamAir2 for the same reason - not enough of em.

But, I like the PSMCD "Warranty Cutoff" in a sense because it's not arbitrary - your car either had a 12m12k warranty or it didn't.
In that sense of course your cars would count and make sense as "street" cars.

Its mainly about the Hemi - how do those Hemi's get to run year after year, near as I can find they had a tiny little warranty?

EDIT,
Royce, to be clear on my 1000 minimum:
What I mean by that is, 1000 total factory cars have to be built that year with that engine.
So ANY 428cj car counts for 1968, etc.
1000 of a given nameplate, body style, color, etc would be way too restrictive.
EG your 428cj car would count (over 40,000 in 3 years), but not any 427 Ford, not past 1964 anyway. Too few.

I count the COPO Chevelle for 1969 with the same reasoning: Well over 1000 total COPO Chevelle and Camaro left the factory in 1969, so I think it's fair to at least count the heavier Chevelle in the shootout I'm Gonkulating.

I am using the 1000 limit to get away from what are becoming the "IT" cars for each brand. The "IT" Pontiac seems to be the 421 Super Duty, and yet only 200 or so were made. The "IT" Ford seems to be the 427 Fairlane, again only a couple hundred ever made. The "IT" Chevy is the ZL-1 Camaro, and I don't even think 100 were made. To Mopar's credit, their "IT" car was the MaxWedge, very few made, then the RaceHemi e.g. Silver Bullet, with just a couple made. But Mopar's "IT" car is now the Hemi - at least they made 10,000 of em so I have counted them (So far) in my own MCS Muscle Car Shootout. I guess I could disqualify them too but I did see hemi cars on the street back in the day - probably because 10,000 were made from 1966-1971. And as far as the Shootout, they are not that dominant as they left the factory. The Hemi wins a lot, but not always. Still thinking about it.

But for PSMCD, per their own rules, I think the Hemi is OUT. Right? It would also help address the money problem - some people will spend their retirement just to prove a point. Not sure what that point is even. To me, that is not the spirit of PSMCD.


    
This message has been edited by werbyford on Dec 6, 2017 9:11 AM


 
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Tom P
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Re: The 1000 was mine, arbitrary. PSMCD was the warranty thing. EDIT on 1000

December 6 2017, 10:24 AM 

Great info there Werby.
The 1000 would rule out way too many cars. A 427 Ford in anything after 64, even 61 Meteor wagons would be out and what a fearsome musclecar that 332 was , eh? happy.gif

It is quite the shocker that Buick, Olds and AMC are more prevalent in that series than Fords! I would think several different models should be competitive, the obvious 428CJ's but 427 Fairlanes and Comets, and Boss 429's. I don't think any 289 or 30, even a Boss would be able to run with the big blocks unless they allow Tigers, Cobras and TVR Griffiths.

 
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WerbyFord
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PSD by Model Year? Ford wins lots of years

December 6 2017, 10:53 AM 

Tom,
Well I was going to say, any car that shows up and really qualifies for PSD is a "winner" - I'd like to see a 390gt car go and top 100mph. To me that is a winner. Or a 352/250 in a 65 Gal running 90mph.

But looking at the MCS Shootout I am Gonkulating I thought of something PSD could do.
How bout winners by MODEL YEAR?
Rationale is, who "wins" with the technology of that year? Ok maybe we count half-years too.
Using the Gonkulator (REALLY Pure Stock results, well assuming all THESE had a warranty):

Ford would win:
1961 390/375
1962 390/401
1963 427/425
1964 427/425
1968 428cj (especially if we ditch the hemi due to lack of warranty)
1971 429scj (have to ditch Hemi for nil warranty)

Chevy would win:
1958 348/315
1959 348/335
1965 396/425
1966 427/425
1967 396/375
1969 427/425copo (close vs 440-6v, 400ra4)
1970 454/450

Mopar would win:
1955 331/300hemi (sure, if any showed up...)
1956 354/300hemi (ditto)
1957 392/390hemi (ditto, seems we have a hemi problem again...)
1960 383/330ram
1969 440/390-6v (close vs 400ra4, 427oopo)
1971 426/425hemi (if allowed)

Buick would win:
1948 320/150 roadmaster (sorry, I have to go back that far!!)
1955 322/236 nailhead (again if any showed up)

Olds would win:
1949 303/135 rocket (ditto)
1950 303/135 rocket (last year before the hemi)

Pontiac would win:
1969 400ra4 (close call vs 440-6v and 427copo)
1972 455/335ho
1973 455/250ho (still too few 455sd this year)
1974 455/290sd
1975 455/200ho

AMC would win:
Sadly, never.
1948 262/121 comes in 2nd to Buick
1951-53 308 Hornet comes in 3rd each year. Nascar worked out better.


(I add one more restriction in my Gonkulator MCS Shootout, you cant run steeper than 3.70 final gear ratio or 3.50 final gear ratio for an automatic, to keep the car freeway liveable. With overdrive of course that can mean a steeper rear gear. This keeps some of those Mouse and Black Widow cars at bay).

I guess you could split PSD into stick and auto classes too, that still avoids the "Bracket" problem of factoring horsepower- that had troubles in the day and still has troubles now. I am also doing this in the MCS Shootout, so I have EACH MODEL YEAR, and then STICK and AUTO for EACH MODEL YEAR.
That would be 42 classes in PSMCDR, 21 years x 2 trans = 42 classes.

Of course with only about 120 cars showing up, your odds of bringing home a class trophy would be 1/3.
Well maybe that's about right.
I should send PSD a consulting fee for this idea!
I just hope they consider doing it......

Now, let me look at those 2017 results again......


    
This message has been edited by werbyford on Dec 6, 2017 11:39 AM


 
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WerbyFord
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PSD 2017 by Model Year Ford shoulda won some years but

December 6 2017, 12:00 PM 

Too few showed up!
Here are the would-be winners out of the actual 2017 PSMCD results, by Model Year:
(Next I will split out by stick or auto)
1955 289/185 18.50 at 073.5 stude
1956 NIL
1957 NIL
1958 NIL (get the idea??? Our bone stock 430 Merc could have cleaned up!)
1959 NIL
1960 NIL
1961 NIL
1962 NIL
1963 409/425 12.99 at 109.2 chev
1964 389/348 13.77 at 102.9 pont
1965 389/360 14.04 at 100.4 pont
1966 327/350 13.54 at 101.1 chev
1967*426/425 11.59 at 119.4 hemi, if allowed
1967 400/325 12.70 at 109.7 pont
1968*426/425 11.51 at 123.1 hemi, if allowed
1968 400/360 12.18 at 115.2 pont
1969 396/375 11.98 at 115.8 chev
1970*426/425 11.80 at 117.8 hemi, if allowed
1970 350/360 12.31 at 113.5 chev
1971 455/345 12.71 at 109.4 buick
1972 455/270 12.35 at 112.6 olds
1973 340/240 13.78 at 098.5 mopar
1974 455/290 12.79 at 106.5 pont
1975 NIL

Sounds like a lot more fun just reading the list.
If PSMCD wanted more participation this would sure do it.
I can just see all the 390HiPo cars now, and the return of the F-birds and the 283 cars.
And even if the Hemi Lobby prevails in evading the warranty, it is no longer making the whole thing so predictable.

 
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Tommy-T
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Quit teasing me about Corvairs!

December 6 2017, 10:25 AM 

By far the best thing EVER from the General!happy.gif

Grew up with an uncle that had 'Vair powered sand rail. Regularly ate up VW powered rails at Glamis and Pismo in the early '70's.

My brother and my uncle both had 'Vairs and I've probably ridden in flat six Chevs a half million miles.

Fun!

A few years ago, I built a 3 Litre Corvair motor for my Manx. Kind'a funny how much Chev flat six stuff there is still out there.

 
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eric
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here you go.

December 6 2017, 11:24 AM 


 
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Leny Mason
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Covair

December 6 2017, 8:30 PM 

I would like to watch the fan belt run at 9100 RPM I was amazed that it stayed on at all. did the early engines have separate heads on each cylinder. Leny Mason

 
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Dan
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Heads

December 6 2017, 10:55 PM 

No both early and late use a single head per side and the same single port head on the turbo as the twin carb. The 140 4 carb has a better twin port inlet head that often is milled for other uses such as 911 Webers. Scat however makes single cylinder air cooled heads that while VW based have been used on Corvair builds for things such as fan boats.

 
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WerbyFord
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Same heads except 164/140hp, same carbs

December 7 2017, 5:34 AM 

As far as I can tell (the gmheritage link above helped a lot), heads were all the same except the 164/140 "4-barrel" as PSMCDR calls it (4x1v) version. Looks like the carbs were all the same size, 1.00 venturi, 1.25 throttle, pretty tiny carbs so 4 of em would be about right to make some power.

Lots of changes in cams over the years 1960-1969.
No info on .050 durations so I guessed.

I didn't Gonkulate the Turbo versions yet, just trying to cover what was run at PSD.

 
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Dan
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Corvairs

December 6 2017, 11:58 AM 

I hate to admit it but I drove a 66 110 for a bit and it was really was a fun car. Unfortunately it had a powerglide with that heater switch control on the dash for a shifter. People often asked about it or even reached for the thing and I'd say it was the ejector seat switch and drop it into first at speed. It wasn't much of a jolt or good for the trans but it was fun and was still working up until I put a small block in it.
Another thing I found interesting is that the Corvair Stinger was the first Yenko dealer conversion. I didn't realize the effort put into those for a long time and figured it for a goofy dressup package to off Corvairs sitting on the lot more like a "Jury" Lemans.

 
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Bobby Spears
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Re: Quit teasing me about Corvairs!

December 6 2017, 1:58 PM 

Not really a bad car.My sister in law had one when my brother married her. my brother said it had a blown head gasket and the dealer wanted more than the car was wort.I had them bring it to my parent's house which is where I still lived .I started taking off sheet metal and placing them in order on the bench.Flat sanded the block and head and put it back together.Ran it for another year and bought what is now,my sisters 63 Falcon Sprint that I rebuilt in Kingman. I am still trying to steal it from her.

 
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T
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"Best improved"=Buick/Pontiac...maybe because...

December 6 2017, 10:47 AM 

"Best improved"=Buick/Pontiac...maybe because their "small blocks" are really big blocks and large displacements can easily be had. Especially with no teardown.

 
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Bill Ballinger
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The 70 GSX was a stout car and really nice, engine is as light as an SBC

December 6 2017, 5:47 PM 

The 455 Stage I or if you bought the Stage II kit in the trunk on either the 400 or 455, it was strong, they got the Beef in the right places and they breathes really well for a Q-Jet. I had an 850 Stage I carb and wore it out on my 394. really strong. I did ruin it though "it was a 1708 replacement" by drilling the secondary feed tubes with little holes like a 429 CJ had, it would drain the bowl and the pump had to have a booster pump to have WOT in 2ns 3rd and 4th on a 65 F250 4X4 with an NPP 435 and 4.56's, but it would peg a 7000 rpm tach in 2nd in a flip, really cool carb. They also had "pullover enrichment" on the primaries that would spray fuel into the primaries at a stong enough drop, I drove it with the hood off and it was pretty well any time you were any where at 4000+. They are tinny though, and Holleys are like an Anvil compared, you can rebuild Hooleys if the Throttle shafts start leaking vacuum. A q-jet of any kind forget it.

 
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WerbyFord
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Automatic and Manual PSMCDR classes by Model Year

December 6 2017, 4:57 PM 

OK 1 more “what-if”.
Here is how the 2017 PSMCDR would have looked if there were automatic and manual classes for each model year, plus of course the 8-car shootout as usual. 42 class trophies. 20 of them would be left unclaimed. Attendance for 2018 would be WAY up!
Manual Trans
1955 NIL
1956 NIL
1957 NIL
1958 NIL
1959 NIL
1960 NIL
1961 NIL
1962 NIL
1963 409/425 12.99 at 109.2 chev
1964 389/348 13.77 at 102.9 pont
1965 389/360 14.04 at 100.4 pont
1966 327/350 13.54 at 101.1 chev
1967 396/375 12.85 at 110.7 chev
1968 396/375 12.34 at 113.9 chev
1969 400/345 12.36 at 115.4 pont ra4
1970 350/360 12.31 at 113.5 chev
1971 360/285 14.01 at 098.3 amc
1972 455/300 12.75 at 111.5 pont
1973 455/250 14.80 at 101.4 pont
1974 NIL
1975 NIL

Auto Trans

1955 289/185 18.50 at 073.5 stude
1956 NIL
1957 NIL
1958 NIL
1959 NIL
1960 NIL
1961 NIL
1962 NIL
1963 289/289 14.18 at 099.0 stude
1964 NIL
1965 327/300 14.67 at 094.2 chev
1966 NIL
1967*426/425 11.59 at 119.4 hemi, if allowed
1967 400/325 12.70 at 109.7 pont
1968*426/425 11.51 at 123.1 hemi, if allowed
1968 400/360 12.18 at 115.2 ra1 pont
1969 396/375 11.98 at 115.8 chev
1970*426/425 11.80 at 117.8 hemi, if allowed
1970 455/360 12.71 at 108.0 buick
1971 455/345 12.71 at 108.4 buick
1972 455/270 12.35 at 112.6 olds
1973 340/240 13.78 at 098.5 mopar
1974 455/290 12.79 at 106.5 pont
1975 NIL


So, 10 manual and 10 automatic class trophies would have gone unclaimed at PSMCDR 2017.
Still no Ford winners even in class.
I bet there’d be a lot of early registrations for next year, especially from 1956-1961. The 1960-62 manual slots are just waiting for a HiPo FE, and the 1966 automatic slot is just waiting for a 390gta to show up.

Wins in class, all 21 years 1955-1975 (if any entries!)
Manual
5 chev
0 ford
0 mopar
0 buick
0 olds
5 pont
1 amc

Auto
2 chev
0 ford
1 mopar (plus 3 hemi)
2 buick
1 olds
3 pont
2 amc

All
7 chev
0 ford
1 mopar (plus 3 hemi)
2 buick
1 olds
8 pont
3 amc
So only Ford is winless. We are back to “where are all the FoMoCo’s?”


    
This message has been edited by werbyford on Dec 6, 2017 8:57 PM


 
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Bill Ballinger
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I wonder if the GT manifolds could be enhanced?

December 6 2017, 5:26 PM 

If you could say cut the log manifolds outside off and attach the GT manifolds to the logs to extend their volume and make them a 2.5 outlet? I did it once on a pair and they worked well, but man they were fugly and it wasn't worth the heating brazing, heating brazing... Too bad that there can't be a set of new "factory replacement" GT manifolds cast. Mine was like a 1.5 inch spacer, it looked awful, but it was a pulling truck that had to be "Stock" and it passed tech being called a spacer. It did more than one full pulls before the welds broke.

Why not improve the GT manifold and get Ford to slap a number on it? How a about a 410 based GT? maximum .040 over. happy.gif

 
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