ot. 1970 Ford Torino Cobra SCJ worth $165k?December 6 2017 at 9:01 PM
Mike U. (Login mtrain)
So I was looking up quarter mile times for old Fords when I came across the car in the link above.
Its a 70 Torino Cobra with the SCJ option.
The owner has the car for sale at "well below market value" at $165,000.
Is that really what those cars are selling for? Seems a bit on the high side, but what do I know.
Of course he has the word "SUPER" in bold text about a hundred times in the ad.
Educate me, how many of these cars were made with the SCJ option? I can't seem to find the numbers, only that over 7k Torino Cobras were made.
Torino people dont care I guess
|December 6 2017, 9:14 PM |
1252 429cj Mustangs
613 429scj Mustangs
That was 1971 only
I have no breakdown on Torino or Cyclone.
The 70 Cobra had
429 TJ standard
429 CJ option
429 SCJ option
For 1971 the more thrifty 351C4v replaced the 429 TJ as standard.
The 70 Cyclone Spoiler had
429 CJ standard
429 SCJ option
I would guess 3000-4000 429 SCJ total, about the same as the LS6, but I too would like to firm up these numbers.
On that famous "50 Fastest" list, the 70 Cobra 429 SCJ is #16, the fastest FoMoCo you could really buy. Only the unobtainable Boss 429 and Cobra 427 ranked faster. Strong engine, especially for a heavy car - about the same weight as a 1961 Galaxie.
Not a bad thread there. I dunno about the 7000rpm part though.
Looks like 241 429scj in Torino GT cars. At least 2 of these were road test cars, one of them was the 13.69 at 106mph car, tested in good cold air. Most 429scj came in Cobras as it states. Quite a few around the Detroit area back in the day, not as common as Boss 302 cars but they were around.
C = 429cj but also 429scj, flat hood
J = 429cj or 429scj, shaker hood.
So its kinda like the early 390 HiPo, you cant tell by the VIN letter.
"Drag Pack" means 429scj but that's not in the VIN.
There's less than 10hp difference, Gonkulator gets about
325hp 429TJ, rated 360 LOL
392hp 429CJ, rated 370
400hp 429SCJ, rate 375
But the 429SCJ was set up for solids, had forged pistons, 4 bolt mains, Holley, much better to get serious with.
|This message has been edited by werbyford on Dec 6, 2017 10:10 PM|
Guy's been selling it (and full of it) for years
|December 6 2017, 10:23 PM |
J-code is around 3000 built.
C-code is around 900.
In total, I think around 1500 had the Drag Pack.
|This message has been edited by 442w30 on Dec 6, 2017 10:24 PM|
Diego are those 1970 Cobra only?
|December 7 2017, 4:23 AM |
If so then:
7675 total 1970 Cobra
1500 429scj Drag Pack (fewer than I thought!)
3775=7675-3000-900=N-code 429TJ standard Cobra
If so this is part of the puzzle.
I am still missing 1971 Cobra, 1970 Montego/Cyclone, 1971 Montego/Cyclone.
And I know of 1 4dr Fairlane 429cj, it came into our gas station so I checked its oil back in the day. Was expecting to find a 302-2bbl and instead its a factory 429cj.
|December 7 2017, 8:01 AM |
Here's the numbers, as compiled by my friend (so consider it informational rather than 100% accurate):
974 429 CJ
3,488 429 CJ ram air
1,629 Drag Pack, but also have seen 1,475 mentioned
316 429 CJ
652 429 CJ ram air
No Drag Pack
240 429 CJ (145 had ram air)
89 Drag Pack
1970 Cyclone GT
394 429 CJ (249 with ram air)
73 Drag Pack
1970 Cyclone Spoiler
1,631 429 CJ
341 Drag Pack
Incomplete info for 351/429 CJ
|This message has been edited by 442w30 on Dec 7, 2017 8:01 AM|
Wow, so it looks like ZERO 429scj Torino/Cyclone 1971
|December 7 2017, 11:08 AM |
So far anyway, I know the Cyclone numbers are missing.
I never thought about that before, but then again, every 429SCJ car I remember seeing was a 1970, and every 429SCJ road test I know of was a 1970.
The 1st 1971 429SCJ car I saw was a Mustang at a car show out here (which is why I use the 1000 cutoff, JMO).
But I never realized, did FoMoCo really stop building the 429SCJ "big" cars in 1971? Figures - just as they had a car hands-down faster than GM, they quit making it. All the GM stuff got neutered for 1971. That was Ford's chance and they backed out?
Only Mustang had Drag Pack in 1971
|December 7 2017, 11:12 AM |
Your comment, "just as they had a car hands-down faster than GM, they quit making it," should have the word "arguably" in it instead of "hands-down."
WOW did I learn something. Ok arguably.
|December 7 2017, 11:52 AM |
I thought, oh come on, NHRA lists the 429SCJ Cobra/Spoiler for 1971. They DONT!! Their file tops out at 370hp ie the CJ.
They also show a 429CJ Torino as 300 lb heavier than a 429CJ Cobra.......
And a 429CJ/SCJ Mustang only 100 lb lighter than the 429CJ Cobra.
And a 1970 429cj Cobra almost 300 lb heavier than a 1971 429cj Cobra. Right - twin cars, LOL.
I guess NHRA is just listing tne nonsense Ford sent them. Some of the 1963-64 Galaxie NHRA weights are screwed up too.
Point being, they didn't offer it in 1971.
And the 613 Mustang 429SCJ cars don't meet my 1000 criteria (then again, neither do the 355 Hemi cars for 1971).
So I am tempted to knock them both out for spite.
Here is what I currently have, these are Gonkulated as part of my apples-to-apples Shootout, for 1971
13.69 at 105.1 426/425 Cuda (but only 355 total hemi)
13.75 at 103.1 429scj Torino/Cyclone (but only 613, Mustang, made)
13.94 at 102.3 455/355ho Firebird
14.00 at 100.6 455/350/300net Olds
14.00 at 100.8 455/345/270net Buick
14.17 at 99.5 455/365 LS5 Chev
14.52 at 98.2 401/330 Javelin
The auto cars come out similar. I guess its still "arguably", only a couple tenths/mph in there.
The 429scj cars ran 104-106mph when running right, even in the old stock road tests.
Moot point if they didn't make any or make over 1000.
But I'm now tempted to boot the 71 Hemi and 71 SCJ out period. Not enough made.
So the 429CJ and 351boss will become the top FoMoCo cars for 1971, at least in my "1000 or more" shootout.
Those still ran pretty good!
I am not finding any 1971 GM cars that road test (or Gonkulate) to over 100mph. The compression loss hurt em somewhat.
Still (see PSMCDR comments below) the 1971-74 GM stuff would do quite well in a by-model-year format.
Ford completely gave up for 1972-73-74.
Thanks for all the info, I like to learn at least 1 thing each day! (and not just about taxes)
|This message has been edited by werbyford on Dec 7, 2017 12:10 PM|
Ford didn't quite give up
|December 7 2017, 12:17 PM |
The 351 HO in 1972 was a Boss 351 in low-compression drag (pun not intended).
Well ok they Pretty Much gave up
|December 7 2017, 1:06 PM |
Here are the Gonkulator Shootout results for 1972
BOP now takes the top 3 spots!
13.94 at 102.3 455/335gross Firebird
14.00 at 100.6 455.350gr/300net Olds
14.00 at 100.8 455/360gr/270net Buick
14.27 at 98.3 350/255net Chev z28
14.43 at 97.4 440/280net Dodge
14.65 at 97.0 401/255net AMC
14.73 at 93.9 351CJ Mustang Last Place
Great. Top FoMoCo is down almost 10mph from 1970-71.
Everybody else got hit, but not THAT bad.
Even if I let in the under-400-built 351HO:
14.48 at 96.1 351HO Mustang
A long way from the Boss 351!
The auto-trans cars are even worse due to the total lack of torque in the open chamber Clevelands.
I'm not saying Ford was "wrong" - maybe it was that "fisssscal responsibility" that got Ford thru the Bank Depression of 2008, when nobody else made it. But it sure left us out in the cold.
The only closed chamber 4V 351C I think they made after 71-72
|December 7 2017, 4:35 PM |
I believe. My 70 1/2 Falcon had closed chamber heads and a good cam, but my 70 GT Ranchero had open chamber small port and valve heads with a 2V, I ended up puttin a "500" Holley 2V on it , but I never figured that one out why the Falcon and not a GT?
A guy in our town had a 70 or 71 Cyclone Spoiler
|December 7 2017, 1:16 PM |
But given I was 16 or 17 at the time my info may not be 100% accurate. It was Comp Orange, black interior, 4 speed and almost positive it was a SCJ Drag Pack car. Within about 3 months he wrapped it around a pole and after that it sat in his back yard up on blocks for years. He was older than me, I didn't know him well and really didn't care for the looks of those cars so never bothered talking to him. Eventually, someone bought the thing and it disappeared. A rare car if it's still around somewhere.
I had a 70 GT Ranchero with a 351C and it was miserable to plugs on, worse than an FE
|December 7 2017, 4:29 PM |
I never cared for 70-71's. The Fastback 72-73s maybe didn't look bad, they were huge as a Charger, but they had some room under the hood.
Similar story Dale, used to stare at a Twister in town
|December 9 2017, 1:49 PM |
from the backseat of the old mans 67 Gal wagon. I would look at the car and marvel at the color and the twister decal. Went door to door in the neighborhood years later asking about the car but no one knew anything about it. The guy always backed it in so as a passerby I got the full impact. I think they made like 50? plus a number of Mustang Twisters. Never seen a Mustang version in the flesh. JB
Every second counts
Good friend had "similar" car...
|December 7 2017, 6:08 AM |
it was only the 351C/4 spd version. His dad would not sign for the 429 drag pak version back then. He sold his '65 Coronet 426 wedge car to buy the Torino brand new. His dad was not into "racing" and figured the small block would be safer. Of course the race parts should up shortly after the car did. Big cam, intake, carb, traction bars, etc. His was that light silver blue color. He says it went 12.8's back in the day.
2006/2009 UMTR Points Champion
Car is worth maybe $35k. Possibly $50k restored.
|December 7 2017, 6:21 AM |
This guy is a clown...note the SS427.com website. There's a lot of puff and little substance.
He claims 1 0f 20, but the very Marti report he provides does not back that up.
I love this one: "Original paint is still on this car..." yeah, but it's covered in a new paint job of a completely different color!
Of great entertainment value: List of "comparable" recent auctions. NONE of the cars is a 1970 Torino Cobra. They're all Hemi cars, BOSS 9s and Chevelle LS6.
Of the pictures provided: NONE are of the interior or underside. One is actually of a different car (showing the ORIGINAL color, and a hood tach that this car does not have). Another shows Richard Petty with a Torino Cobra that he never drove. The pictures do show off the aftermarket aluminum slots and the redneck spring shackles.
Based on the engine shot and the lacking other pictures, this needs a full restoration to bring $45-50k. In my opinion (very little value, I'm aware) it's worth $30-35k, IF it's not a rotted mess underneath and inside.
Sounds to me like someone sold a Chevy guy a car for more money than it's worth.
In the end, a very cool car owned by a dick.
You have a way with words Jim
|December 7 2017, 7:18 AM |
that I happen to identify with, lol. Well put. JB
Every second counts
But he is going to wet sand it....
|December 7 2017, 10:34 AM |
back to the original color............LOL!!!!
2006/2009 UMTR Points Champion
|December 7 2017, 6:51 AM |
|December 7 2017, 7:02 AM |
I like this one the best ....
"1966 427 A.C. Cobra (of which only 2 were ever actually factory produced "
But this is the best quote in the ad...
"He should have fact checked his article before embarrassing himself in public "