Self Portrait...by Melanie (no login)Hey everyone! Just wanted to let you know I was thinking about doing "Self Portrait on a Summer Evening" (P.80) for my paper. I wanted to make sure no one else was thinking of doing this so Dr. Dwyer does not have to read similar papers. If someone else was interested in doing this poem let me know and I will be glad to use one of my back ups!! See ya on thurs. Thanks Melanie P.S. If Dawn or Dr. Dwyer have any insights to thispoem I would like to hear them too please!! |
self portraitby PD (no login)Hi Melanie! Sorry i didn't respond sooner--hope these insights may add to the discussion. I think Gussie is right--time is important in this poem. It's late summer--on the cusp of change. That idea seems to get picked up in the questions "Can't you feel it? Aren't you chilled by it? It's a border time--like the dusk and dawn that Gussie wrote about in her posting to you. Also, it seems the woman in the art is "half toned--rinsed neutrals"--different from the real woman where the colors "pigments of bibelot" and "water-opal pearl" seem more vivid. It also seems that this is about shifting the gaze again--from Chardin's point of view to the woman's--now she is keeping her eye on grass, hedge, and children. Lots of edges in this poem--and crossing between: art and life, artist and object, garden and house, day and night, summer and fall...the list goes on! Good luck! PD |
poemsby Gussie (no login)After reading most of Boland's poetry, I find her perspective so refreshing. I love the movement of the poems. They usually begin with a lyrical image, something happens, and Boland makes a final conclusion that ties up the loose ends (of course this is a bit of an oversimplification). I think that I find the mixture of politics, humanity and the domestic very interesting. What do you all think? Am I the only one enjoying the poetry? To respond to Jeremy's comments, I also find reading poetry to be more difficult to comprehend during the first reading. I usually re-read the poems aloud the second time around. And I think that poetry makes more sense when read aloud. -Gussie |
Response to Gussieby Melanie (no login)Gussie, Listening to you speak today in class really impressed me!! You seem to have such a grasp for Boland and, I don't doubt, poetry in general! I am doing "Self Portrait on a Summer Evening" and I would really appreciate to hear your take on it. I have a difficult time with poetry and since you are especially good in this area, I would enjoy discussing it with you. I am really enjoying Boland's poems. They seem to hit a nerve that I haven't felt in a while. Perhaps since the first time I read Nikki Giovanni who is very different from Boland but definitely a strong female contemporary. Thanks!:) Melanie |
Self-Portraitby Gussie (no login)Melanie, I am so glad that you are enjoying Boland's poetry too. I have read most of the poems in the text, and I am just captivated. And "Self-Portrait On A Summer Evening" is a great poem. This particular poem gives me a really clear image of the action in my mind's eye. For example: "All summer long / he has been slighting her / in botched blues, tints, / half-tones, rinsed neutrals" (80). I also think that the narrator wants to be more than a woman in a painting. She wants to be more than the detail of color on the canvas. In her essay, she says that women of Irish poetry were simple objects and emblems without the complextiy of emotion and other human characteristics. I see this poem as the essence of that. "Chardin's woman" tries to break the mold of artistic and literary tradition. The end of the poem says, "I am Chardin's woman / edged in reflected light, / hardened by / the need to be ordinary" (81). I don't know, sometimes I feel like I can't explain things in the way I would like. What do you think? Do you agree or disagree? Does the narrator want to be "Chardin's woman?" Another thing I like about Boland's poetry is that most of the poems take place in the early evening. I think that dawn and dusk are the most beautiful times of day. Since the evenings have been brisk recently, I have noticed that the sky's colors have been exquisite. Sorry! I am definately rambling! Gussie |
dusk and dawnby PD (no login)What a good insight! I think those times of day are also about margins and boundaires and blurring those lines. A lot of what Boland is doing in her themes about border-crossing in terms of gender roles especially. PD |
Boland Poetry...by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Between bouts of hacking I reread all the poems and discovered that the third time around finally put things in better perspective. I definately get a since of a pattern in the structure of many of the poems, however, I am still a little lost at having a tight understanding of a cohesive theme (applicable to me) throughout the collection. Sadly, as I have said before, it would have been much better for me if I had been able to benefit from class discussion. |
Shift to poetry...by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Anyone else finding the shift from fiction to poetry hard on the brain? I'm having to re-read the poems so many times to get even a basic understanding of what is going on. Now that I think about it more, it's probably just me. |
poetryby PD (no login)Hi Jeremy! I don't think your experience is unusual. Lots of people find reading poetry challenging--so much packed into so few words. Read over a couple of times--1st for meaning, then for style, sound etc. The article I gave out last week should also help to give you a sense of Boland's "ethos." |
novels to poetry...by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Actually I love reading poetry. For a long time I exclusively read poetry over novels. My point was that for some reason the shift from the two contemporary novels we read (particularly the last one) to poetry was a bit of a brain challenge for me. It was as if the novels had rewired my brain in a way where poetry was harder to absorb than it used to be...Personally, I blame Roy... |
Untitledby Anna Hughes (no login)It is hardly just you, Jeremy. I am having a hard time as well in the shift from fiction to poetry. Of course, that may just be because I am not very good with poetry in the first place. I think that it helps to read them out loud . . . even though I have the added problem of having three roommates who don't understand what I am saying and who probably think that I have gone totally nuts. Oh well, what can I say? :) |
Untitledby PD (no login)I know all about those roommates... |
The Child's Perspectiveby Gussie (no login)Today we discussed the child's perspective in the novel. Some felt that the child's perspective gave the novel an honest and straightforward feel and that the children brought a fresh look at the world. However, I'm not quite sure about the straightforward part. Because after the Orangedrink Man molests him, the quieting begins; Estha detatches himself from the world. He brings to distrust the world, feeling that he must "prepare to be prepared." Is Estha still entirely innocent? Is he still the same child? -Gussie |
The Eyes of a Child...by (no login)Estha isn't the same child he was before the molestation, and as a reader I wouldn't expect him to be. I think he has valid reasons for not being straightforward with Ammu, but I don't think that detracts from a child's natural instinct to be honest. |
Esthaby PD (no login)Good point Gussie--it's like Estha has lost his fresh view of the world. Everything must seem soiled for him. So maybe that "fresh perspective" is something we would wish for him. |
wheww...by (no login)Just so that Melanie knows she isn't crazy, I found the passage she was searching for so desperately in class Thursday. It's the one that explains in detail why Mammachi hates Margaret Kochamma. It starts at the bottom of 159 and goes over to the middle of 161. |
tHANKSby Melanie (no login)WHOOps caps lock! Anyway thank you that is exactly where I wanted to direct everyone Mel |
Roy's styleby Christine (no login)I found it mildly surprising to learn in class that Roy's style had been criticized. There's room enough in literature for so many styles; I thought Roy's style was compelling. Her writing is true to thought. So much of the story is a childhood memory; fragmention is undoubtedly pronounced. Our brains work like this; though apparently not all of our pens do. Her style is bold, brash, harsh, and, as Melanie said in class, raw. |
Roy's writing true to thought...by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Yes, but WHOSE thoughts? WHO is the narrator? HOW is the narrator connected to the story? The narrator obviously seems very interconnected with the twins, but WHY are we the reader assailed with the mass of parenthesis and side-bars from the narrator? I have problems with the omniscience of the narrator being so closely tied to the thought processes of the characters. I realize these questions may not be critical to anyone else, but over the course of reading 321 pages I cannot help but wonder... |
Room for a variety of styles...by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)I definately agree that there is plenty of room in literature for a variety of styles. However, I have enough stress wading through the fragmentation of my own mind, so I don't really need to traipse through someone else's flighty albeit horrifying shattered existence. I have enough disorientation between my ears to last a lifetime... |
room for stylesby PD (no login)Hi Jeremy: I just wanted to tell you that I'm enjoying your postings. You speak honestly about your impressions--and ask good questions of the group. Keep up the good work. PD |
good impressions...by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Too bad I can't cultivate good health habits to get rid of the 36 pounds of phlegm in my chest... That would be a talent that would be particulaly useful to me right now... |
Gross, Jeremyby Melanie (no login)Gross!! |
grossnessby Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)I really don't think my previous post was that gross...Now if I had included the imagery of the flecks of blood and lung tissue in my phlegm PERHAPS that would have crossed over into gross... But the 36 pounds of phlegm alone--I just don't see it. |
OVERWHELMED by The God of Small Thingsby Deidre (no login)I am feeling so HAUNTED by this book. In class last week, when Jeremy said he was having difficulty getting into this book, I got nervous. I started it yesterday morning, read non-stop for HOURS - reading and re-reading to keep the characters and action straight in my mind - breaking only to leave the house for somewhere quieter when our kids got too noisy for me to concentrate. I immersed myself in it for nearly the entire day and feel just shattered by it all. I felt such a sense of doom from the first words - knew it was going to end horrifyingly. But I'm torn. I love Roy's language...her words are so expressive. I'm reading Beowulf, and Roy's shovedtogether phrasings remind me of the kennings of Old English. I haven't quite sorted all my feelings out about it - nor am I quite ready to start re-reading...so I look forward to hearing what you all THOUGHT and FELT about it. - Deidre |
Impressionsby Gussie (no login)Deidre, I agree with you about the novel. After I bought my books for the course I picked up the novel just to get a feel for it. I read it for about three hours. At first, the setting and characters completely bewildered me. But it was Roy's incredible use of language that kept me going. As Melanie said in class on Tuesday, it wasn't until I nearly finished the book that it all made sense to me. I think, perhaps that the chapter titled "The God of Small Things," is the most powerful chapter in the novel. After I finished the chapter, I paused, nearly in tears. It was so completely human and utterly beautiful. On a lighter note, one image from this novel sticks with me and always make me chuckle. When the family goes to the airport, Rahel and Estha are Ambassador E. Pelvis and Ambassador S. Insect ("the Airport Fairy with appalling taste"). Anyway, which passages did you enjoy or despise? Anyone? Gussie |
continued problems/inability to deal with the cognizant worldby Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Yet another problem that I had with the novel concerns little points of seeming misinformation. It seemed to me that Roy hit repeatedly on the subject of Estha's silence--i.e. it was a gradual quieting, and no one knew for sure why it happened or when it happened. Yet at the end of the novel it would seem to me that any outside viewer could pinpoint EXACTLY what silenced him, and EXACTLY when he retracted from the outside world. The repeated train imagery/sounds in Estha's head seems to conclusively corroborate the moment where Estha had no choice but to turn inward. On another note what does everyone make of the hints (declaration?) of incest at the end of the novel? Does anyone think that Roy might be trying to justify an incestuous relationship from her childhood? |
Untitledby Melanie (no login)I am writing this to stall writing my paper. I enjoyed the passage with the three kids walking to see Velutha in their saris and dressed like "Ladies" for tea. It is the sweetesr image tha puts aside all the yuck from the rest of their lives. |
haunting, horrifying narration OH MY!by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Perhaps I missed discussion of the narration of the novel on Tuesday, but I am extremely curious about what everyone thinks about the narration of the novel. I'm referring to the many uses of parenthesis where the narrator restates thoughts, feelings, and ideas repeatedly. Has anyone else wondered about who the narrator is? It seems to me that the narrator speaks from Rahel's point of view, although perhaps Estha is included in that. Often the narrator echoes labels and attatchments that were introduced from the words and minds of the twins. What about the reiteration of two-egg twins and similar statements? I think the way Roy employs the narrator is another problem that I have with the book. Negativity reigns supreme. |
Quickly....by Gussie (no login)There is just so much depth to this novel. I mean, our class has discussed it quite a bit at this point, but I still have questions to sort out about it. The language and extensive description lend so much more to the already intricate plot. Gussie |
Study guide for the God of Small Thingsby PD (no login)Hi everyone! I came across a study guide on the Internet for Roy's novel. Here's the address: http://www.wsu.edu:8000/~brians/anglophone/roy.html. I've made a copy of first chapter notes and will bring them to class on Thursday--also, Melanie, a list of all the characters and who they are in relation to each other. I think this could be very useful. I'll also add to this as a link to our website for the class. PD |
We're off to see the Wizard!by Holly (no login)At the risk of sounding childish, I MUST make the statement that Santiago's journey reminded me so much of Dorothy's trip to the Emerald City, that I just had to laugh. Each of these characters travels (if only in their head), great distances to discover that what they were searching for was in their own "backyard." But, of course, everything in literature, for me, is somehow related to The Wizard of Oz. Anyhow, I hope you found this entertaining! |
The Alchemist (or Posting for the Sake of Posting)by Christine (no login)This class appears so well-spoken and talented that it is a challenge for me to find things I feel are worthy of contributing to class discussions. I don't feel I have much left over for the bulletin board. But if I don't start soon, I figure I'll have to write about two dozen comments about Cruddy to meet the requirement. SO, DESPITE the fact that it was mentioned in class, here goes. I do think the king's story about the boy and the drops of oil correlates nicely with the works in the castle being the future and the spoon being the present. While it didn't seem to be the main theme of the story, I took a lot from the book (particularly the camel driver's outlook) about appreciating the present for what it is. |
A little burnt outby Melanie (no login)I cannot believe I still feel the need to talk about this book, but I do. Perhaps I am on my own little quasi journey right now and I need to find closure with Santiago and the Alchemist. I am glad, Christine, that you agree with me about the oil story. It seems that it is just plopped there in the middle of the book, but its relevance is ten-fold!! I think the idea of living every moment to the fullest is so important for us as a human race as a whole, yet we always tend to be planning for the future or reminiscing about the past. Damn it, if we don't sometimes just sit and have a moment where our minds are not racing, our sweet little lives will be over before we know it. And we will look back and say "where was I?" All right I think I got it all out. But, I wanted to suggest that everyone also take either a philosophy course at some point in their lives. It is really great, and in a class that asks all the unanswerable questions, one can really strengthen perspective, and appreciate every moment life has to offer, whether good or bad. Gee whiz, I wish computers could tell us to shut up! love Melanie P.S. Dr. Dwyer, I would love you forever if you could maybe give us a copy of a "family Tree" of the characters in TGOST, AHHH too many names! |
Kochu vs. Kochamma (correct spelling??)by Gussie (no login)Melanie, I agree with you! The family tree was a bit difficult to follow at first. I think that the complexity of the characters' names made it confusing. But after Roy's characterization of the individual members, they all came alive for me. At any rate, our discussion of sequence really brought the plot together. Gussie |
Sequence respond to Gussieby PD (no login)We'll do a lot more of that piecing together on Thursday. Keep letting me know what is working as far as class presentation. PD |
responding to Christine and Melanieby (no login)First of all--to Christine. I am happy to hear you're finding the class discussion so stimulating. I am too. Don't be shy--everyone's contributions are important and your reaction to a passage may be a point of view that no one else thought about! About the Alchemist and philosophy courses, Melanie. I totally agree that everyone should take some philosophy --that abstract thinking ability stretches your mind! I know the Alchemist stayed with me for days. I had a high school friend visit last week who is about to take a semester at sea and travel around the world for the next three months. I was so impressed with her! She's just putting all her goods in storage and following this dream she has always had. I, on the other hand, am working at creating a home for myself here in Shep-town--thinking about my house and what I want to do with it. It really struck me what different spots we are in--and in light of the alchemist, I was wondering if I was compromising a dream of exotic travel. But for me, home is about going inside--and my home reflects a lot of who am. So maybe that's another kind of adventure... Melanie--I'll work on a family tree and have it for Thursday! PD |
well spoken class, challenge to find things to say, etc.by Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)Luckily, I have grown accustomed to having nothing interesting to say, so I am not burdened by my inadequacy--In fact perhaps it is my inadequacy that allows me to occasionally say adequate things. You know it is going to be a long and difficult book when 12 pages into 321 you feel disenchanted with the narration. Despite the intriguing use of language that Roy employs I still felt disillusioned by the author's habit/need of embedding stories within stories. I can find little justification for the choppiness of the merging of past and present, much less the parsing together of past with deeper past and with thicker background. What it boils down to for me is that I just do not have trust in the narration of the novel. While I am certain that Roy is a far, far better writer than I am, I do not think that gives her as much liberty as I feel she takes. While the mystical and floaty feel of the book might be important to the themes, I can't help but wish that the organization of the novel was a little more structured. |
I Can't Believe I Read the Whole Thing :)by (no login)Jeremy, I have to admit that I was also disturbed by the choppiness of the novel and the past/present intermingling. This is how I coped (as juvenile or ludicrous as it might be): I kept imagining that the book was a literary "Pulp Fiction". With that in mind, it made the blurring of past and present easier to digest for me. I know, it sounds dumb, but who cares? It made it easier to read. |
Roy's Pulp Fiction approachby Jeremy J. Johnson (no login)I wish I had thought of that approach when I was reading it...The only motivation I was able to draw on was the knowledge that a paper loomed on the horizon... |
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