Ok, here's the deal. I have 35ish watches, a couple I could let go, but on the whole, I love them all. I have a printed rotor, so each watch gets worn a day a month (except for weekends, when I just do what I feel like doing).

I have a major urge for a Seiko Flightmaster Auto. Lot more dosh than all my other watches. I have 1 Tag, two Omegas (old) and a few £150ish Seikos. It will take some saving up as I am a tradesman whos income isn't the best.

What is it like when you get your grail watch???

Does the wait give more pleasure than holding the focus of your dreams?
Does the grail watch become the only one you wear, making the rest of your collection redundant?
Having aquired your dream, does watch collecting seem pointless?

It is going to take me a minimum of 12 months to get the funds together (pressuming Alba don't bring out any more must have watches) and I can avoid just buying awesome, cheap Seikos.

Help/advice/therapy greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Simon

week or two, and then falls into a regular rotation. I have yet to find a single watch that I loved sooooo much that it displaced all others.


GO HOKIES!!!

I have recently received my grail, I have budgeted for over eight months to get the one thing I have been eyeing.

First, once the grail has actually been ordered, sleep becomes rare (for me anyway). First it had to be special ordered, and took a week to get to the dealer. Another week for shipping, so for two weeks, I needed sleep aids.

Once the grail is actually received, a nervousness came over me as if I was the starting pitcher of game 1 of the world series (sports analogy, starting in a big game). A feeling of butterflies in the stomach. The package is opened quickly, until the guts of the package is reached, then you move to a slow motion in fear of harming the contents.

Once it is opened, you immediatey set it and size it and wear for the immediate future. Then for me, it goes in its box knowing it will see only special days. However, I never lose the feeling of knowing that grail sits in my collection. However, beware, one is not enough. I have since received a second grail, and am know budgeting for a third grail.

So now the question has to be asked, how many grails does it take so that they are no longer grails?? Ha, but that is the question.

Another key question you asked is what does this grail do for the rest of the collection. Honestly, the others do not carry nearly as much weight, but I do still enjoy them. In fact, today, I wear one of my original Seikos. So no, obtaining the grail will not resolve the rest of your collection as mute. The collection does not become pointless, it becomes complete, in my opinion.

To wrap up, should you make sacrifices in order tp obtain that grail, I say yes, I did.

I sold about 6 or 7 watches, mostly Eco Drives and Seikos to fund my grail purchase, a Doxa T-Graph in my case. My experience was exactly like JB's except I even poured myself a glass of brandy when I sat down to open the box. Lets just say I was thrilled then and I'm still thrilled with it and the thought of selling it has never crossed my mind. In fact, like JB, I also bought a second one in a different colour!

Somehow, once you cross over a certain pricepoint to achieve your grail (different for everyone), it seems far to easy to do it again... and again...

I have bought and sold over 40 watches in the last 9 months, and the 12 that are still with me get very even wrist time. The grails get the special occasions like dinners, social events or meetings.

I have NO REGRETS and the experience of shopping, waiting, opening, sizing, and finally slipping it on is one I will remember for a long time. The second one wasn't nearly as exciting.

By the way, that Flightmaster Auto is the BEST looking seiko IMHO. Nice choice!!

...my most expensive was my Certina DS3 chrono ($1,200 US). It's in my regular rotation but I also do wear it to meetings and special occasions when I want to impress so I feel it was worth it. I still can't see spending $3,000 plus on one watch as I don't think I'd wear it enough to justify the expense. The fact that you have 35 watches means you like variety.

I am new to watches, but not to collecting. I have collected modern and vintage fountain pens for years, focusing mainly on Sheaffers, Parkers, Pelikans, and Lamys. I prefer vintage pens, generally. I've acquired and sold MANY MANY pens.

In the process of collecting so many fountain pens, I at first grew curious about the psychology of collection. Once my own pen collection (and the concomitant craving for more pens) began to grow exponentially, I began to study the psychology of collection in the hopes of achieving some real, useful, lasting insight about why I was spending so much money, time, and thought on fountain pens.

Though the word has strong negative connotations, collection is akin to addiction: acquisition does not satisfy the craving. It appears to, but only briefly.

I began to realize that I was not collecting pens: I was collecting sensations of craving; I was collecting and trying to maintain certain mindstates: wonder, amazement, fascination, involvement, curiosity.

The problem however is that one confuses the mindstates with the objects. I realized that I don't love fountain pens per se; nor do I love watches per se. I love the wonder, amazement, fascination, involvement, and curiosity that is excited in my mind when I consider them, hold them, and use them.

That is why one grail is not enough: because it's not the object; it's the sensation associated with that object.

Realizing this allows me to approach watches with moderation, just as I have returned to fountain pens with moderation. That eternal and inevitable feeling of "lack" that can lead me to buy, to seek out, to wait for, to associate with an object (or heck, a woman, a book, a car, a bicycle, etc): that "lack" cannot be filled in any permanent way by an object. What I am after is not an object, ultimately, but a sense of wonderment. And I must find other ways to cultivate that sense of wonder, fascination, amazement, involvement, enchantment, and curiosity. The root of the issue is not the object, but the sensation. My collective impulse is not about what I collect. It's not about grails. Or fountain pens. Or watches. It's about my sense of connection to the day, to my life, and to an underlying feeling of lack, dissatisfaction – and, heck, maybe even fear about the passing of time.

This insight has saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars. It has in fact helped me feel content in the midst of all manner of discontent (not getting this or that outcome professionally, personally, intellectually, emotionally, etc).

That is why this forum for me isn't just about watches. It's about wonder, curiosity, joy, and the enriching of life through the disciplined appreciation of these shining and small machines. I’m new to Seikos – about five months into this thing – and because of the above insights, I have purposefully kept my "collection" at two Seikos. Instead of acquiring more, I have chosen (for once) to discipline my approach into this new hobby, and I do so by, well, musing about watches. I purposefully stopped and chose to use my fascination in Seikos and automatics in order to stop, pause, and study. I’m now trying to understand the technical and commercial history of watches, the changing conceptions of time throughout history, etc. I expect one day I may begin tinkering in their guts, like a lot of you have.

In the meantime, I’m trying to be very careful about cultivating a sense of craving for more watches. Because I know, from a past collection passion, that such craving is a bucket that cannot be filled. No grail will satisfy me. Wonder cannot be bought. I must find other ways to cultivate a mindstate of contentment and curiosity:

If I consider a watch or a pen to be the source and end of my wonder, I’m making a perceptual error.

The BM on my wrist as I type this is, frankly, awesome. But it’s awesome because it’s an *idea*, not an object.

I don’t confuse the two any more. And I’ve more money because of it!

Gabe

I would like to take your thoughts insights and clear understanding of the addicted nature of all things tonight, to a group I FICILATATE for recovering young boys.Its really so on the mark of it's an --"INSIDE JOB" THE I have to go i'm late==so I will trust its OK w/ you Thanks for the beautiful reminders Best To You RUSSELL I.

Hi, Russell. Not a problem. Permission granted. - gabe

on any forum. You have put into words what I have been struggling with in my mind for months. I couldn't agree with you more, although I have yet to regain control of my collective cravings. Reading this has helped.

Thanks for taking the time to write something so personal, for it will undoubtedly help many here as it just did for me.

Mark

It's easy to see where the transition to a fetish occurs. It's where the thing becomes the feeling, rather than bringing forth the feeling.

It's been my experience that, in servicing watches for others, I find little need to acquire that particular watch myself. It's close to the 'catch and release' approach that some of our brother collectors use. There are only occasional watches that I really want to own.

After admiring them from afar all these years, I've finally ordered a new OM. I had a chance to try one on the wrist and decided this iconic Seiko could be part of my own collection.

Cheers
JR

...right on the head, Gabriel. You succinctly put into words what a little voice in the back of my mind has hinted at for a long time; plainly, that it's the feeling I get from collecting watches, rather than the actual objects themselves. It's what my mind has come to associate with them that fuels my passion. This is, I suspect, the driving force behind cultivating my collection and of many of us being members of this forum. I believe that it takes a strong will to manage any addiction. Fortunately, watches are relatively harmless, compared to other things I could be addicted to, notwithstanding the abuse to my bank account! Your insight, however, could be applied to many types of addictions and no doubt there will be other readers who find it very useful. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughtful perspective. Best of luck to you in finding substitute ways of achieving the euphoria!

Gabriel that is the best thing I have read since I found this place. Thank you; Jim

a lot of watch (or anything else) collecting ends up looking like OCD hoarding behavior (I'm not excepting myself from this... ).  To answer the grail question, I never thought I had one until I bought and sold a lot of watches and realized that it was the vintage Seiko divers (and a couple other vintage Seikos) that I liked / missed the most.  I kept trying to find an expensive watch I liked more, but couldn't. 

plenty to indentify with in these words. Personally, I've often pondered the "WHY?" of my collecting... whether it has anything to do with my wonderment/fascination with the passing of time. My oldest piece is my 6105... about 30 yrs. The 2nd oldest is my 7549... about 25 yrs. I never really started collecting Seikos until about 7 years ago... right after I lost both of my parents who passed on about 4 months apart. As I get older, I find that I do appreciate older things... "older" attitudes. It's like I'm trying to reach back and hold on to things that are no longer there. Thanks for the read... appreciate the thoughts.

Indeed. I too have recently come to this realisation. It came to a head, when I bought an MM, sold it, bought another then sold it. It was not about the watch it was about the buying, hunting acquiring of it. I was on a vicious cycle of catch and release that started a few years ago and culminated when I had a lot of spare time between jobs at the beginning of last year. When I traded my Alpinist for another "Grail" watch and got ripped off, I realised the error of my ways. I am not a collector, but have always enjoyed the thrill of the hunt. I think Richard Paige articulated it in a similar way a few years ago on TZ about buying and selling watches, but you have nailed it perfectly IMHO.

Thanks for an insightful post. BTW, I'm wearing a Seiko 5 Sports with a 7s36B movement. I'm happy!

Cheers

Peter

/

It was JB's post (and the other Gabe's) that got me thinking again about that lack of balance (not sleeping, in JB's case) after the buy and in the wait for the object to arrive.

The other thing I wanted to say more explicitly in the post but didn't is what a number of you touched on anyway: that no sensation, no feeling of wonderment, stays. All mindstates are all fleeting. Much more fleeting than the objects. That's why we can wind up with a thousand watches and a nagging sense that it's not enough: we confused the seashells with the waves of feeling that brought them to us. The next thing to do is find ways of achieving those mindstates that don't involved the undisciplined acquisition of objects.

Anyway, glad the post was useful. I love you guys -- never metcha, but I know ya.

gabe

nt

We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

Maybe two:





"Making the world a better place one Sawtooth at a time!" (Zoodles 2006)

Grail status is fleeting. Whether it's a $100 g shock or $3000 Panerai.
I've been around that block many times.

"If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got"
-anonymous

Rarely (if ever) is there a long standing warmth with any material goods. It is my friendships and relationships that provide the most gratification. Many of my watches bring me a lot of joy though...

"Making the world a better place one Sawtooth at a time!" (Zoodles 2006)

is fleeting... ashes to ashes. But I'll hold on to my 6105 just the same

if i see something i want, it becomes my grail watch
after i've had it, then another fancy becomes the next grail
that way, i don't have to focus on just a SINGLE watch to be my grail...

it also keeps me sane from all this collecting...;>)

--------------
"Sometimes you only need a wrench to fix the damn leak in the faucet"

Got over a thousand watches. The Grail Watch is a 1680 Rolex Submariner - took 2 years to get it, wore it daily (I'm a builder) until I buggered the band then put a new band on it and since worn it twice.Got a new old stock Orient Diver from the 70's coming might wear that for a while until I can find something else.Currently wearing and old Citizen Auto that someone has painted black poly over the case, keeps time better than just about anything. Cheers Phil

Are you serious? I would be looking for professional help if my minor addiction reached those levels.

Hi Been collecting for years- still buying and beyond help. Cheers Phil

I've thought this matter over many times myself but you nailed it on the head. I guess that's why I've been attempting to narrow down my collection to just a few. Trying to have only a few watches to keep and one slot open for catch and realease.

My grail? What would it be? Maybe if I look I've already got it under my nose.

But there are still lots of watches I would like to have.