Bongo (Login velzyland) from IP address 71.141.77.54
I have read ALL the old threads.ALL the threads. Going back several years.
Including the one by ttsugar, and the one on the other
forum as well as many many others.
I have asked for people to step forward with evidence of
the threads on the MM STRIPPING! None have.
No one has verified STRIPPED threads on the Marine Master!
The verdict: Marine Master found Not Guilty of being more prone to thread stripping!
There are case where owners FELT the threads to have something wrong.There have been complaints about the feel of the crown threads. This is feeling, not fact.
The Marine Master may have grindy FEELING threads.
The Marine Master may have fine threads.
The Marine Master is a unique watch. As far as I know it is alone in having a SS Monocoque case, with a 300m rating and an automatic mechanical movement which hacks and handwinds. It has integrated threads within the case.
The combination of these features MAY cause the crown to have a feeling unlike other watches.
Reports from owners state between 1 - 2 full turns required for screwing in the crown. The average is 1.5 turns. This seemed also to be the most objectively measured amount.
If your MM is the same or similar it is NORMAL.
Is it more fragile? That statement is inconclusive.
All the cases and statements of the MM being prone to stripping are insubstantiated, propaganda slander and heresay.
A different feeling to the threads is not a sign of weakness or necessarily a design flaw.
There is no need to be put of because of the "crown issue" with this watch...there is no issue. There may be a different feel to the crown. If you do not like this FEEL, there are many willing to buy your watch from you, even with full disclosure of the FEEL of the threads.
This grindy feel is not endemic. The large majority of MM owners have no complaints. Or they lube their threads, or they take care and back thread.
A minority of owners feel no change with the lube and still get a "wrong" feeling back threading. The only way to really cure this is to send the watch in.
At one time it appeared the only way to change the feel of the integrated threads was to have the case replaced. This is no longer the case, other owners have been told by Seiko the case does not need to be replaced to change the feel of threads. A bona fide case of thread stripping may or may not require a new case, that situation is yet to be defined.
It is not an automatic $1,200 case replacement outside of warranty to change the feeling of the threads at Seiko in Japan.
I continue the challenge, bring me an example where the thread have been undeniably STRIPPED on the Marine Master. Show me a work order, a warranty slip where the problem states stripped threads. Show it to me in English or Japanese.
Until then, you will be asked to stop perpetuating the MYTH!
You will be asked to use the SEARCH ENGINE, you will be given links to this and my other thread below.
This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 71.141.77.54 on Jun 21, 2007 12:37 PM This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 71.141.77.54 on Jun 21, 2007 11:22 AM This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 71.141.77.54 on Jun 21, 2007 11:04 AM This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 71.141.77.54 on Jun 21, 2007 10:20 AM This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 71.141.77.54 on Jun 21, 2007 10:14 AM
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Thanks for all the effort Bongo. I hope this clears up any on-going misgivings anyone might have.
BTW, can you post links to all the threads you have collected in this thread, so that we can direct people to them the next time this comes up? Thanks again man.
GO HOKIES
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I wash my Marine Master daily. When it's dry, sometimes there is a slight resistance when I rotate the bezel or screw the crown.
When this happens, I rotate the bezel in running water and its smooth like brand new again. I can only draw the conclusion that it is the soap residue that's giving the resistance during rotation.
At this point, when it's dry again, the bezel rotates smoothly.
Unfortunately, I can't do the same with the crown in running water. However, I do notice tiny white residue on the threads. This occurs for my Submariner as well. I am quite certain that it's soap residue causing the resistance.
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I don't think you can support the statement that nobody has stripped the threads.
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June 21 2007, 11:01 AM
At most you can say none of the particpnats on this forum who own MarineMasters have comeforward to say so. There are far more owners of MM's than on thos on this forum.
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I think the MM 300 is one great watch!
Saying it got this or that, well maybe people just want us to believe it isn't a good one
I think Seiko would have long time ago take if off the shelfs if it has faults
Any way - I love the design of the case, it is one of the most distinctive one out there!
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I watched this whole "defect" story spring to life ansd watched as the careless misinterpretations built it into a psuedo-reality. It was a facinating study in rumor growth, but as frastrating as it was, I did not have the patience to deal with it as you did. Great job tackling this mess, and thanks.
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Bongo try to see one locally... or come to NYC you can see mine and we can roll some Judo
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June 21 2007, 3:51 PM
(That was you who played Judo right??)
see who has one Local to you , im sure somone is close by.
Your on the left coast?? Nor-cal?
see who is close, I can think of a few people might be worth the drive.
or ome to NYC and you can see mine...
and we can roll some Judo if you want....(im rusty)
KSeiya San also played Judo, I want to say Katsu did as well.
anyway just go buy one already...
kmc
Lets all thank Kevin Chan and Larry Biggs, and Use the Search tool.
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Kevin, the Marine master is way too heavy for Judo!
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June 21 2007, 4:08 PM
Yeah I live in SF and do Judo. I am waiting for the next
WIS meeting here.
I don't know about Katsu and Judo though. I was living
in Hawaii when I met him, so we talked about surfing.
Course lot's of japanese do sports in High School, he seems
more like a baseball guy, but you never know.
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That was Good.
I live in NYC and do some Judo, not as much as I used to.
( I went a little nuts with it)
Katsu may have done it in HS, KSeiya and others have told me it is almost mandatory.
but I think baseball and surfing would go well together.
I used to go to a very good club here the Oishi Judo Club.
he is relaxed but very traditional. Does not like the blue-gi
and we joke about having only two belts.
white and when youv'e been there a while they get dark.
KMc
Lets all thank Kevin Chan and Larry Biggs, and Use the Search tool.
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sorry for the OT everybody,
I don't have one myself, but is
is very useful for competitions,
as the judges can tell what's what
especially in osaekomi-waza.
As far as getting a MM, I am leaning to the
Orient 300m or the Landmaster Kinetic, still the
MM is always in the back of my mind.
I would beat the heck out of it though, you should
see my tuna.
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Your MM is now Seiko Japan. Seiko Japan called me.
The screw thread is broken!! You are right!!
If the problem is fixed, we have to change the case. 120,000 Yen So I will refund the money to you.
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There we have it! Confirmed a case of "broken threads"
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June 21 2007, 5:35 PM
Thanks so much for that Chuck.That is awesome.
I am assuming Higuchi-san is describing some
stripped threads when he said "broken".
The Marine Master threadsds can be stripped and have
in Chuck's watch.
I believe as I have read in a post by Chuck that this is the
source of the rumor, that and the characteristics of the MM.
I have made some pretty bold statements in previous posts, and will
still stand by them.
$1,200 is huge for a repair bill, good thing it was under warranty.
There are other posts stating the case did not need to be replaced.
In my personal opinion your misfortune is not endemic to the MM. Am I correct
that you have bought more Marine Masters after this and they have been fine?
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Good News! .... The Crown is Supposed to Feel Crappy! >>>
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June 21 2007, 8:47 PM
Sorry guys, I don't care if it fails-or-not. When I blow that kind of $$$$ I expect it to feel as good as it looks. 1 to 1.5 turns ain't enough either for me...and yes, they feel like the threads of a cheap Chinese watch.
I thought of getting one for a while but ended-up getting an Omega Seamaster instead...over 3 rotations on it to lock-down & buttery smooth.
The only other Seiko I own is a Monster, and honestly that crown leaves something to be desired...but I put up with it because it cost less than a couple of hundred.
I really hope Seiko fixes it...I'd like to consider getting one.
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This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 76.102.131.194 on Jun 21, 2007 11:55 PM This message has been edited by velzyland from IP address 76.102.131.194 on Jun 21, 2007 11:53 PM
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I have three 'cheap Chinese' watches with screw down crowns...
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June 22 2007, 9:05 AM
and all of them are butter smooth with about 5 turns to full lock as compared to the Seiko and Citizen ones which are not as smooth and only average about three full turns. The 'cheap Chines' watch crowns engage easily and smoothly without having to back wind or hunt for the start of the threads...the Seiko and Citizens are finicky to find and start the screw down process.
Myths aside, I would also expect a watch like the MM to engage, screw and lock at least as well if not better than these 'cheap Chinese' watches
this forum lets people travel forwards and backwards in time...
this is a thread occuring after this one and I am including a link in this
old thread for posterity and because it really add valuable info to this discussion.
So I will refund the money to you.