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The Tuner Bashing Thread Was, Ultimately, A Good Thing

October 15 2008 at 8:19 AM
Ed Krzynowek  (Login ekmeister)
YF

I slept on it.

Today's email to a very-good airgun supplies vendor, entitled "A Lesson Finally Learned"

"Hi xxxx,

"Sincerest good greetings from Houston this morning!

It's just not like it used to be when we were growing up, is it? Respect used to be the rule, not the exception. It was a better way to live.

"But, that's changed. It may be sad, but it just is.
Many of these people don't even know what they've lost.

"I'm not stupid or clueless about getting tromped on. I just try to see the good in people, and I probably prefer to trust people if I'm not risking something too-large. A tough background made it mandatory for me to learn those things--or to be a very-hateful person.

"But, the last tuner bashing on The Yellow has finally p***ed me off one too many times about the QFI thing. So, they can have all the QFI parties and QFI begging sessions they want to over there, and elsewhere. I think I'm mostly 'unavailable' from now on. My replies, if any, may be limited to, "It's fixable", or, "Pay me--we'll talk".

"Thank you for the so-prompt shipping of your orders, and for staying in business and offering these great products to us all--in spite of the many thankless responses you get from many, and whatever else you might be going through from time to time. Life can be a bi***.

"Best Wishes (and 'Raspberries'--lol),

"Ed"


For the scant few one or two persons who posted something positive in that tuner thread in support of tuning---thank you.

BTW, you'd think I didn't have any work from this scam of a business I run here, and how people obviously have my number. But, I turn away 2 or 3 jobs for every one I accept. Many of the ones I do work for are repeat customers. I've helped many of the latter with their own DIY projects in the past, and some others in the past who never paid me a dime. Do you think maybe they know something the rest don't?

To the good customers I now have or have had in the past--yep, you'll still get the good and accurate type of QFI via phone or private email. You know how to reach me.


(Another title for this post might have been, "No Experiment Is A Failure". If you don't understand how that applies here, look it up and study on it apiece.)

Sincerely,

Ed

The Airgun Tune-Meister
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ekreally/myhomepage/business.html


    
This message has been edited by ekmeister on Oct 15, 2008 9:40 AM


 
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William in MD
(Login owldo)
YF

Ed Can you ad........

October 15 2008, 9:27 AM 

a link to the thread in question? Thanks


"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" -- Benjamin Franklin ...

Take out the "(trash)" to respond

 
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Ed Krzynowek
(Login ekmeister)
YF

Yes

October 15 2008, 9:32 AM 

Same poop (as so-many times before), different day:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1223914227/Tuners+are+a+senitive+lot


I'm outta here---Happy Shooting!

Ed

The Airgun Tune-Meister
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ekreally/myhomepage/business.html




    
This message has been edited by ekmeister on Oct 15, 2008 9:36 AM


 
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eric
(Login justjohnny)
YC

people Won't know what they have

October 15 2008, 9:30 AM 

until it's gone.

 
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Birdo
(Login jaybirdo)
YC

Dale Carnegie said 'expect ingraditude'

October 15 2008, 9:43 AM 

I can tell you as an engineer of 25 years, hardly any one ever notices what goes well, and even things that go well, people will still complain, whether it's a budget, schedule, or some nuance of a design concept.

Our hobby has fine distributors, and service contractors. Today, it doesn't take much to ruin a reputation of a tuner or a rifle manufacturer thanks to this internet; it isn't fair. We need to try to be as innocent as sheep, but wise as the fox; a little philosophy this morn.

I can also tell you I have had good service from Russ Best, Airgunwerks, MAC1, Paul Watts, Mountain Air, Arrow Airguns, AoA, Straight Shooters, Pyramydair, Airhog, Crooked Barn, Crosman, Airgun express when he was in business, and may be others. I'm not in springers these days, or I may have had you work on one.


    
This message has been edited by jaybirdo on Oct 15, 2008 10:04 AM


 
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Ed Krzynowek
(Login ekmeister)
YF

Was That In "Win Friends And Influence People"?

October 16 2008, 12:20 PM 

If so, it's a book that's worth a gazillion dollars in getting along with people, even the difficult ones. I still use some of the methods. That is, if someone thinks I've never dealt successfully with an unhappy cusomer, the opposite is the case. I was actually the guy who got the main complainers that no one else wanted at one company, "Um, let me tranfer you to Ed". (It was OK---I took some pride in being asked to do it, because they trusted me to cool things down. And, that particular vice-president of the company always thanked me afterwards).

Your reasonable and understandning comments are appreciated, and the same goes for anyone who showed some support in either of these two threads. Not that it's your job or anything


Thanks,

Ed

I'm outta here---Happy Shooting!

Ed

The Airgun Tune-Meister
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ekreally/myhomepage/business.html


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---Skyler M.

 
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David Enoch
(Login DavidEnoch)
YF

Tuning - Hobby vs. Business

October 15 2008, 9:44 AM 

The biggest problem I see is that airgunning is supposed to be fun.  Most tuners got into airgun tuning because it was fun to tinker with them. 

If tuning is going to be a hobby, treat it like one.  Tune guns for your friends and don't take in too much work.  Don't take work from people who will pressure you.  If they do, send their gun back.  Protect your hobby and your free time and enjoy yourself.  Remind others and yourself that it is just a hobby.

If instead of a hobby, airgunning is a business, it should be run as a business.  Treat customers the way an auto repair place treats customers.  Tell them what you are going to do, how much it will cost, and when it will be ready.  Do what you say.  When it is done, give the customer a detailed bill showing what has been done.

David Enoch


 
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eric
(Login talon24)
YF

correct !

October 15 2008, 10:04 AM 

you absolutely nailed it , thanks

 
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Matt
(Login acronn)
YC

You're absolutely right on this

October 15 2008, 1:11 PM 

....and your philosophy can be expanded into the workplace, in my opinion. After owning and running a business for over 25 years, your sentiments were understood immediately. I like the hobby work better !

 
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Roald
(Premier Login rbva)
YC

Re: Tuning - Hobby vs. Business

October 17 2008, 1:50 AM 

I agree David, you hit the nail on the head.
On the whole, air gunners are a good bunch of folks.
I have been fortunate, it seems that all people who like 850's are good folks

Roald. 



The 850 Store

Photobucket

 
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Steve Harding
(Login wheatfield)
YF

On a positive note

October 15 2008, 10:21 AM 

An Airgun bud of mine asked me to make a spring guide set up for an R1 and asked a tuner, I believe it was Ed K. for some dimensions on the lenghts. The information was giving freely and I consider that way above and beyond what would be expected.

Thanks Ed,

    Steve


 
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Roland cannon
(Login rcannon409)
YC

Bashing a tuner????

October 15 2008, 10:46 AM 

Isn't that sort of like bashing a mechanic who cannot drop a new engine in my Dodge neon for 50.00???

Maccari and watts have taken guns of mine and turned them into guns I can use, shoot, and hit anything I care to hit with them. Those bastards!

I know there are other good ones out there, but those two were around when I was and are top notch in my book. That Ed fellow, with the difficult last name, did not tune my rws. He just provided FREE instructions on how to fix it myself...that bastard him. That Tim McMurray has also provided me with soem fine stuff over the years. I still own everythign he built for me. Some of it is now 20 years old. It was especially nice once he stopped working on that tv series "My Three Sons". Scott Pilkington just flat out delivers the goods. He still has the honor of allowing me to demo the most expensive airgun I have ever came in contact with.

I tune and rebuild motorcycles. Its what I live for. That and my airguns. When a shipment would come in from a motorcycle company called RPM (owned by Rick Peterson, god rest his soul) I rarely slapped it together. It was too fun to leave the parts out in the garage for my friends to droll over. His cost for art was abotu what a Beeman r1 costs. If I leave the stock r1 guts out on display, too many people laugh and soil their pants...YOU PAID 600FOR THAT???????

Thanks to all of you guys for being there......for taking that step to make these expensive guns somethign to be proud of. You get little repeat business from me. Your stuff is too good to wear out.







    
This message has been edited by rcannon409 on Oct 15, 2008 10:58 AM


 
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-=ed
(Login achyles)
YC

sorry

October 15 2008, 10:35 AM 

Sorry things have come to this for you.

I get criticized regularly for not doing what I do to someone's liking, but I just ignore them and go on.

I usually just try to take anything positive from it I can and forget the rest.  If people stop coming to your door, that's one thing, but if you have a loyal following, just assume these negative people don't know as much as they think they do.

I'd love to have the followers you seem to have. Don't let the ignorant rob you of what you have.  The loudest usually know the least.

FWIW, IMHO

 


 
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bbgunbob
(Login bbgunbob)
YF

I would like to thank all the tuners!

October 15 2008, 10:36 AM 

To all the tuners I have ever asked a question,mostly by e-mail but a few phone conversations over the years.
A Great Big Thank You !!
Many times I have asked for expert advice about a problem or question that came up while flailing away with a air gun.Thanks to you guy's
ED K ,Russ B ,Rich from Mich,Tim @ Mac1,Mike M.,just to name a few that come to mind you never failed to save the day! Cost to me nothing ! Just pure and simple experience from an expert(Priceless).
Don't ever let a few clowns drag you down,please,,just keep on being you.
Believe me you are appreciated by all the good guys who love to shoot there BB Guns knowing it is as good as it can be or can get> Thanks to all the tuners who have spent a lifetime refining these guns..

Respectfully!!!
BBGun Bob
SE Mich.

Darth Vader Called !! I joined the Darkside!!
.22 Disco

 
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Adam SoCal
(Login shootistinsocal)
CL

Whew! Glad I posted a post in support of tuners

October 15 2008, 10:45 AM 

in that thread

Go Craftsmen!

Adam in SoCal
AKA WalkOnKing
www.talonairgun.com



"Those who have no sense of humor run the risk of having jokes made at their expense"

 
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Varmintgetter
(Login varmintgetter)
YC

Is there money in this tuning biz?

October 15 2008, 11:18 AM 

To me...I wouldn't even touch it unless I feel like I like to get my nuts kicked daily. It's the same thing as being a rancher or farmer.

I am not even remotely in the business but I have made good friends with a couple of gurus in the airgunning

scenarios:

most people who buy these things are typically in high socioeconomic status...MEANING spending the $$$$.

It has been said that $$$$ does not buy happiness..but it does give FREEDOM!

In general, MOST tuners and such do not have $$$$$ and therefore they DO need to work.

Freedom in general allows for more "time" to discuss and talk about their wonderful hobby call "bench shooting" and would love to discuss "lock time" "krispy creme pellets" "spring lube xyz with happy endings" "spring ego diameter" "firing cycle" "how hot Eva is".....and forget that when they talk to the tuner, they need to make ends meet and actually have to work to pay for mortgage and maybe have some free time to see their spouse, kid, and animal.

So the tuner is stuck in the middle because they KNOW the "customer" will have all the time in the world about their dreams and aspirations with that bb gun.
------------------------

Another one is absolutely true...the people who talk to tuners "think" they can do a better job and take more business out as their "hobby" sport (hey Gas is $X.99/gallon) to make a few extra by sucking as much info out of the veterans.
------------------------

Another is that some of the regular people who gets into the sport of precision should also be as picky or serious as they can and actually becomes extremely weird and anti-social and phenomenally self serving to make theirs "secretly" better than "them"....I have personally witness while hanging out on a fun time with a very veteran airgun business owner where he REALLY needed a day off and we had a grand 'ol time watching a motorcycle race when a wanna be famous airgun writer wanted to "meet" him...basically he got suckered. We both ended going to his house after the race and ends up telling his airgun problems to my friend (the excessive workaholic and stressed out from business dealings with trying his best to satisfy everyone but get little in return where I wanted to take him out of the environment and actually let him be a human being and take his mind off of freakin airguns for once) where he ends up straightening an airgun barrel and talk shop for....FREE! OMG!


Seriously, I can't blame some of the veterans being a bit cynical. Market is super small, the enthusiasts are a bit off kilter (including your's truly) and everyone wants a piece of ya...for free. All you can do is grin and bear it....slouched over a table daily, not taking a lunch break, answering technical details knowing 80% wanna get an instant simple answer right away without expending a braincell and will end up getting a product elsewhere.

I'm off my soap container as I gotta go to work....and get kicked in the nuts...luckily not as hard since I'm in a different line of work.

 
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David Enoch
(Login DavidEnoch)
YF

Ed, what is QFI and what are you so mad about

October 15 2008, 11:27 AM 

I re-read yesterday's thread as well as this post and letter you sent out today.  I just don't see what there is to get so upset about.  Almost everyone here appreciates you and the other tuners that work on airguns.  You are right there at the top of the list most of us give when someone ask who is a good tuner. Most of the responces I have seen have been positive.  I get the idea that there are things that have happened behind the post that I and others don't know about.  Oh, and what does QFI stand for.  I have no idea.

David Enoch


 
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Ed Krzynowek
(Login ekmeister)
YF

"QFI" Has Two Meanings

October 15 2008, 11:46 AM 

QFI stands for "quality free information". It's a term that was coined by JM, deliberately-dsigned to convey either one of two different meanings at the same time.

Here they are:

1. Q,FI or Quality, (and) Free Information--It's free, and it's of high quality.

2. Q-FI or Quality-Free Information--It's free, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it--nothing.

Everyone is after the first version, but sometimes they get the second one. Both versions are readily available out there, so...

Question: When you ask people with varying levels of experience for some QFI, will you get the Q,FI version or some Q-FI?

Answer: Yes. (It's a trick answer--get it?)



I'm outta here---Happy Shooting!

Ed

The Airgun Tune-Meister
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ekreally/myhomepage/business.html


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---Skyler M.

 
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dan house
(Login dan_house)
YC

It Freakin' magic

October 15 2008, 11:32 AM 

Tuner Bashing? C'mon. There is always a bad apple in the barrel. Around here though, social darwinsim takes care of rotten fruit.

the pro tuners and amatuer one alike have contributed SOOOOOOO much to this forum and to our sport/hobby.

We (us non-tuners) owe them a big THANK You for their contributions.

 

But I can see how aggrevated some of them must feel at times. As a computer support professional, people think what I do is freakin' magic. And that's exactly why I dont do freelance work anymore-- they dont see the value in what I did to their computer. What they dont see (and it applies to tuners too) is the knowledge gained from years of experience, education, constant learning and applied intuition.

Tuners rock! anybody says different is a dipschtick.



Firepower to the People!

 
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Dee
(Login Bowman26)
YC

I know what you mean about the computer work etc.

October 15 2008, 1:20 PM 

When it comes down to it things are very simple.

Your not paying for how easy it was for me to fix things your paying for knowing how to fix it when you call.

As a consultant I knew for turbines used to say when customers would complain when they got his bill. One time he simply put a chalk X on a part of the system and told them to remove it as it was causing the problems.

He sent them a bill for 10 grand consulting fee. They call telling him they think that 10K is a bit much for merely putting a chalk X on something.

He told them the chalk X was actually free. Knowing WHERE TO PUT THE X costs 10,000 dollars. To me that says it all. And if it is not worth it or so easily fixed by anyone why did you bother to call someone else.


Dee

 
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